chinawildman
Footballguy
Considering the last time the niners beat the seahawks by more than one score was nearly a decade ago I'm not too optimistic about that regardless of how good the seahawks are.
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*** Official 2019 San Francisco 49ers thread *** NEW 2020 THREAD LINK INSIDE (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Wingnut
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I understand GB may have just had a down week last time they played, but as someone who watched that and the two Seattle games, I have trouble wrapping my mind around this take.
shadyridr
Footballguy
You have trouble wrapping your head around GB defense being much better than Seattle's?
shadyridr
Footballguy
The first game against SEA they had no Kittle, no Sanders, and Kicker off the street otherwise they would've won. Since then both Seattle's RBs are hurt, their entire offensive line is hurt, and Clowney has a sports hernia. This isn't the great Seattle team from that game. They barely beat Josh McCown and injury depleted Eagles team. I expect GB to destroy them.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
D looked great with their guys back. Superbowl runs through the Niners.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Wingnut
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
i don’t care who they play, their front 7 when everyone is healthy is flat out scary... like to see someone level Wilson as he extends the ball for the extra yard near the sideline lol.
I’ve committed a trip to both my father in law and older son a trip to SF next weekend... I drank way too much, but I’m west class bound next week.
Go Niners!!!
I’ve committed a trip to both my father in law and older son a trip to SF next weekend... I drank way too much, but I’m west class bound next week.
Go Niners!!!
HomerSimpson
Footballguy
BANG BANG
Loved the 2nd half approach. Run the ball, wear them out and don’t do anything stupid to let them back in.
Shanahan took a lot of grief after the Falcons meltdown in the Super Bowl for not running the ball more and using clock (although Quinn was the head coach and should have been the one dictating the game plan). Good to see he learned from that. As an offensive guy, probably hard for him to check his creativeness at the door. A lot more power type runs this week instead of working the edges. Great adjustment to the way the Minnesota D was set to stop the edge runs. Nicely done Kyle.
Shanahan took a lot of grief after the Falcons meltdown in the Super Bowl for not running the ball more and using clock (although Quinn was the head coach and should have been the one dictating the game plan). Good to see he learned from that. As an offensive guy, probably hard for him to check his creativeness at the door. A lot more power type runs this week instead of working the edges. Great adjustment to the way the Minnesota D was set to stop the edge runs. Nicely done Kyle.
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chinawildman
Footballguy
Was a great victory, but here are some things that concerned me:
1) Garp looked shaky. The pick was clearly bad but he threw a lot of passes behind receivers and forced a few others into heavy coverage. I realize the latter is just part of his game, but he needs to get sharper on his accuracy since so much of this offense is predicated on YAC.
2) Shanny once again turtled in when given a 2 score lead. I get that the run worked well that one drive but the Vikings basically gifted them the following FG and they would never score again after that. I dunno how many times they've had a lead late in a game where I expect them to run some of their best plays to step on the opponent's throat, but instead he just does run/run/pass and go 3 and out. Why not run some PA when the opponent is expecting you to salt away the clock? The wk 17 game shouldn't have come down to a goalline stand... they were up 2 scores w/ 6 minutes left! I get the D is playing well, but it doesn't hurt to give them a little help.
3) Witherspoon shouldn't be on the field over Mosley ever again this postseason. The majority of the defense's dominant run came w/ Mosley as the starting CB. I know the niners faced better opponents down the stretch, but Ahkello looks like he's lost confidence, perhaps the most important attribute for a corner to have.
4) Really nitpicking here, but Bourne only seems to drop the easy ones and Sanders dropped an easy one as well from what I remember. Deebo came to play but I felt like he left some yds on the field on that reverse, as he did against seattle in wk 17.
5) I love Kittle, but can we stop w/ the gimmicky plays to him? I can't remember the last time one of these Kittle sweeps, bubble screens, shovels got us much of anything. It's like they had a package of plays for Richie James, and are asking Kittle to run them.
1) Garp looked shaky. The pick was clearly bad but he threw a lot of passes behind receivers and forced a few others into heavy coverage. I realize the latter is just part of his game, but he needs to get sharper on his accuracy since so much of this offense is predicated on YAC.
2) Shanny once again turtled in when given a 2 score lead. I get that the run worked well that one drive but the Vikings basically gifted them the following FG and they would never score again after that. I dunno how many times they've had a lead late in a game where I expect them to run some of their best plays to step on the opponent's throat, but instead he just does run/run/pass and go 3 and out. Why not run some PA when the opponent is expecting you to salt away the clock? The wk 17 game shouldn't have come down to a goalline stand... they were up 2 scores w/ 6 minutes left! I get the D is playing well, but it doesn't hurt to give them a little help.
3) Witherspoon shouldn't be on the field over Mosley ever again this postseason. The majority of the defense's dominant run came w/ Mosley as the starting CB. I know the niners faced better opponents down the stretch, but Ahkello looks like he's lost confidence, perhaps the most important attribute for a corner to have.
4) Really nitpicking here, but Bourne only seems to drop the easy ones and Sanders dropped an easy one as well from what I remember. Deebo came to play but I felt like he left some yds on the field on that reverse, as he did against seattle in wk 17.
5) I love Kittle, but can we stop w/ the gimmicky plays to him? I can't remember the last time one of these Kittle sweeps, bubble screens, shovels got us much of anything. It's like they had a package of plays for Richie James, and are asking Kittle to run them.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Interesting, I had almost the complete opposite take on this. I thought the run plays were a bit uninspiring. There are a lot of other ways: bubble screens, reverses, etc to run clock.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ordinarily I’d agree, but Shanny is a hot hand kinda guy, and clearly he saw that Coleman had found something he’d been missing most of the year. And it worked, so I’m ok with it.
Yeah, when something is working, why change it? They were getting 5-8 yards on first down runs in the 4th quarter. Creativity is great when needed, but when you can play smash mouth effectively, no need. Great plan of attack in this situation.
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chinawildman
Footballguy
The drive you're thinking of started EARLY in the third quarter. The next 5 possessions resulted in 3 three n' outs, a 5 play drive, and another 4 play drive that ended in a fumble. Altogether they netted 50yds or so on those 5 possessions.
I wouldn't describe that as "working". If salting the clock and not turning the ball over is the directive, then kneeling the ball every play and punting woulda netted similar results.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I mean, the “4-play drive that ended in a fumble” was in the 4th quarter, and after Breida fought for the 1st down, which would literally have ended the game.
so...maybe not the best example to support your argument?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I want Green Bay. I’m so sick of playing the Seahawks.
I agree Seattle is more banged up, as they’ve been taking hits every week for a month now.
They do give the Niners fits, but I think GB @ SF will be a more entertaining game. I love the A-A-Ron storyline - we all know about the huge chip on his shoulder from being passed up by his favorite team for Alex Smith. Always fun to see a dude get a crack at a revenge game.
Either game will be fun & compelling, but just to break up the monotony, gimme the packers.
chinawildman
Footballguy
If it wasn't that late in the game and they were up by 3 scores, that would've been another 3 and out and punt. So yes, I believe the lack of creative playcalling supports my argument.
When they got the ball back w/ 3:30 left in the 3rd quarter, they got ONE FIRST DOWN for the rest of the game. Short of turning it over, that's literally one first down away from doing your best to let your opponent back in the game.
Wingnut
Footballguy
1) I think first playoff game nerves played a part, as well as the bye week. I think he bounces back nicely next week.
2) I was saying the same thing last night. Shanahan completely took his foot off the gas, and I dont necessarily mean as far as scoring points. It seemed he was content to go three and out, punt. Three and out, punt. Three and out, punt. It was almost like he didnt trust Jimmy at that point to make a good decision or to deliver an accurate pass. They could have EASILY ran play action and got some easy first downs in the 4th quarter to keep Minnesota off the field. Yeah, our defense was playing lights out, and I get it, but if you keep those three and out drives alive, you dont give them a chance by putting their offense back on the field. It ended up turning out OK, but what if a CB slips or theres a busted coverage and suddenly they score, get some momentum and are within reach. We need to close the game out and put it out of reach.
3) I said the same thing about this last night. They were forcing the ball to Kittle on those gadget plays and they NEVER produce much. Hes not a RB, hes not gonna get yards by getting the ball behind the line of scrimmage and try to find running lanes. Stick with Deebo or James for those type of plays.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The fumble was technically after they got a first down. So wouldn’t that be 2 first downs?
One might also say they played conservatively because they had a 3-score lead & wanted to use their possessions to burn clock since their defense was utterly smothering MIN’s offense.
I agree it was tough to see them not get some of those 1st downs, but they hardly let MIN back in the game. In case you missed it, MIN didn’t score again. The whole game.
Yep.
No need to take chances with a big lead and your defense playing lights out. Minnesota was done.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Agree 100%. I dont wanna see shots of Carroll on the sidelines chewing his cud all game, and going all rah-rah and fist pumping and jumping around when Seattle scores. It makes me wanna throw a brick through my TV.
That said, after seeing the defense get back to form yesterday (like I suspected it would once Ford got back), Im not worried about either team. We were missing several key players for both Seattle games, and I dont think it would come down to the last 2 minutes if we play them next week. And we all know how the Green Bay game went back before we lost Ford, although we did still have DJ Jones, who was a monster run stopper. I dont think it would be a blowout like last time, but I feel like we'd win by at least a TD.
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Rooting for GB only because I’ll enjoy the game more.
Having such distain for the Seahawks, it’s hard watching the national broadcasts while they copulate “Russell” all game. Only player that they are on a first name basis with. Plus, watching 100 sideline shots of Pete chewing gum is rough.
Both games will be tough. Niners rolled GB when they matched up earlier, but I wouldn’t expect that again.
chinawildman
Footballguy
No they didn't, but credit for that all goes to the defense.
The offense did little to help. And yes you're right it worked this time. But this is postseason ball... do you really want to find out when it DOESN'T work? Why take that chance?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t think they would take that chance against another opponent if the game had not flowed the exact same way.
but to that point, they completely stifled cook on the ground, and cousins had .3 seconds to throw before he got sacked.
when the 49ers were running it on third and five, it was clear they trusted their defense to continue doing what they’d been doing. They could’ve easily thrown it on third down, but that would’ve created risk of disaster. And an interception absolutely could have let Minnesota back in the game.
so while your point is taken, I think in the context of this game the criticism is totally unwarranted.
I will judge what they do next game, next game.
chinawildman
Footballguy
If they do draw the seahawks and beat them convincingly... it will give them a significant boost of confidence. This is a niners team that's near full strength injuries-wise and can't say the same for Seattle.
That said I'm rooting for GB simply because I don't want the chance of a niners season ending at the hands of Russell Wilson. I would've rather lost to the Vikings yesterday than have that happen.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Fair enough, but just the wk before against Seattle they went run run pass on a 3 n' out when they had a chance to make sure Wilson didn't get another shot. Yes the bogus penalty stifled that drive, but the conservative predictability was still evident.
In fact on almost every recent niners game where they had the lead late, I would think to myself, man a PA pass here would be perfect on 1st down... Shanny would just run it right into the middle for no gain. I mean if running clock is THAT important, just tell Garp to run and slide for no gain on a bootleg if nothing's there... it's almost like he doesn't trust Garp to take what the defense gives him in those instances.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Niners beat the Saints in NOLA & hung tough to the bitter end with BAL in BAL in the pouring rain. They beat Seattle in an absolute must-win prime time game on the road to get the 1-seed & the BYE. So many other games come to mind of their 13 wins.
this is hardly a team lacking confidence.
Wingnut
Footballguy
With Ford back, the whole D-Line was able to stay fresh. These are the kind of snap counts I like to see. Barring injury, nobody is gonna beat us with this defense.
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/49ers-snap-count-defense-remains-fresh-dominant-win-over-vikings
49ers snap count: Defense remains fresh in dominant win over Vikings
The 49ers allowed the Vikings to convert just two of 17 (17 percent) on third downs in the divisional round game in the NFC playoffs at Levi’s Stadium. Seven of the Vikings’ 11 offensive possessions ended without a first down.
The 49ers had great success with their run game and held the ball for nearly 17 more minutes than Minnesota (38:27 to 21:33). And that meant 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh could keep his defensive line fresh throughout the game.
The big three of Arik Armstead, Nick Bosa and DeForest Buckner were not overworked. Buckner and Bosa played 35 snaps, while Armstead was on the field for 34 plays.
Eight defensive linemen saw significant action, including Sheldon Day (22), Dee Ford (22), Solomon Thomas (14), Anthony Zettel (11) and Earl Mitchell (11). Ford's contribution was especially important, as the edge rusher played just four snaps in the team's final six regular-season games due to a hamstring injury.
Here is a look at how much everyone on the 49ers played Saturday on offense, defense and special teams:
Offense
Total offensive snaps: 71
Quarterback – Jimmy Garoppolo 71
Running back – Kyle Juszczyk 50, Tevin Coleman 33, Raheem Mostert 24, Matt Breida 12
Wide receiver – Emmanuel Sanders 61, Deebo Samuel 56, Kendrick Bourne 23, Richie James 3
Tight end – George Kittle 68, Levine Toilolo 19, Ross Dwelley 6
Offensive line – Ben Garland 71, Laken Tomlinson 71, Mike McGlinchey 71, Joe Staley 70, Mike Person 70, Daniel Brunskill 1, Justin Skule 1
Did not play – QB Nick Mullens, WR Dante Pettis
Defense
Total defensive snaps: 46
Defensive line – DeForest Buckner 35, Nick Bosa 35, Arik Armstead 34, Sheldon Day 22, Dee Ford 22, Solomon Thomas 14, Anthony Zettel 11, Earl Mitchell 11
Linebacker – Fred Warner 44, Dre Greenlaw 39, Kwon Alexander 25, Elijah Lee 2
Defensive back – Jimmie Ward 46, Jaquiski Tartt 46, Richard Sherman 44, Emmanuel Moseley 35, Ahkello Witherspoon 13, K’Waun Williams 26, Tarvarius Moore 6, D.J. Reed 2
Special teams
Total special teams plays: 26
Tarvarius Moore 21, Lee 21, Mark Nzeocha 20, Marcell Harris 19, Breida 16, James 16, Mitch Wishnowsky 15, Reed 14, Dwelley 13, Zettel 11, Mostert 10, Moseley 10, Kyle Nelson 9, Bourne 9, Ward 8, Armstead 7, Buckner 7, Toilolo 7, Witherspoon 7, Robbie Gould 5, Garland 5, Tomlinson 5, McGlinchey 5, Skule 5, Brunskill 5, Staley 4, Juszczyk 4, Day 3, Tartt 2, Thomas 2, Greelaw 1
Not active
QB C.J. Beathard
RB Jeff Wilson
CB Dontae Johnson
TE Daniel Helm
LB Azeez Al-Shaair
WR Jordan Matthews
DL Kevin Givens
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/49ers-snap-count-defense-remains-fresh-dominant-win-over-vikings
49ers snap count: Defense remains fresh in dominant win over Vikings
The 49ers allowed the Vikings to convert just two of 17 (17 percent) on third downs in the divisional round game in the NFC playoffs at Levi’s Stadium. Seven of the Vikings’ 11 offensive possessions ended without a first down.
The 49ers had great success with their run game and held the ball for nearly 17 more minutes than Minnesota (38:27 to 21:33). And that meant 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh could keep his defensive line fresh throughout the game.
The big three of Arik Armstead, Nick Bosa and DeForest Buckner were not overworked. Buckner and Bosa played 35 snaps, while Armstead was on the field for 34 plays.
Eight defensive linemen saw significant action, including Sheldon Day (22), Dee Ford (22), Solomon Thomas (14), Anthony Zettel (11) and Earl Mitchell (11). Ford's contribution was especially important, as the edge rusher played just four snaps in the team's final six regular-season games due to a hamstring injury.
Here is a look at how much everyone on the 49ers played Saturday on offense, defense and special teams:
Offense
Total offensive snaps: 71
Quarterback – Jimmy Garoppolo 71
Running back – Kyle Juszczyk 50, Tevin Coleman 33, Raheem Mostert 24, Matt Breida 12
Wide receiver – Emmanuel Sanders 61, Deebo Samuel 56, Kendrick Bourne 23, Richie James 3
Tight end – George Kittle 68, Levine Toilolo 19, Ross Dwelley 6
Offensive line – Ben Garland 71, Laken Tomlinson 71, Mike McGlinchey 71, Joe Staley 70, Mike Person 70, Daniel Brunskill 1, Justin Skule 1
Did not play – QB Nick Mullens, WR Dante Pettis
Defense
Total defensive snaps: 46
Defensive line – DeForest Buckner 35, Nick Bosa 35, Arik Armstead 34, Sheldon Day 22, Dee Ford 22, Solomon Thomas 14, Anthony Zettel 11, Earl Mitchell 11
Linebacker – Fred Warner 44, Dre Greenlaw 39, Kwon Alexander 25, Elijah Lee 2
Defensive back – Jimmie Ward 46, Jaquiski Tartt 46, Richard Sherman 44, Emmanuel Moseley 35, Ahkello Witherspoon 13, K’Waun Williams 26, Tarvarius Moore 6, D.J. Reed 2
Special teams
Total special teams plays: 26
Tarvarius Moore 21, Lee 21, Mark Nzeocha 20, Marcell Harris 19, Breida 16, James 16, Mitch Wishnowsky 15, Reed 14, Dwelley 13, Zettel 11, Mostert 10, Moseley 10, Kyle Nelson 9, Bourne 9, Ward 8, Armstead 7, Buckner 7, Toilolo 7, Witherspoon 7, Robbie Gould 5, Garland 5, Tomlinson 5, McGlinchey 5, Skule 5, Brunskill 5, Staley 4, Juszczyk 4, Day 3, Tartt 2, Thomas 2, Greelaw 1
Not active
QB C.J. Beathard
RB Jeff Wilson
CB Dontae Johnson
TE Daniel Helm
LB Azeez Al-Shaair
WR Jordan Matthews
DL Kevin Givens
chinawildman
Footballguy
Never said they LACKED confidence. But sticking it to the seahawks like they did to the Vikings would put to rest a lot of questions.
Because Shanahan is conservative by nature and will play the same game regardless of game flow and opponent next week.
He played to the situation yesterday. Power running game. 38 1/2 to 21 1/2 time of possession advantage. Once Moseley came into game, Minnesota couldn’t move the ball. No need to either take chances or show anything extra to next weeks opponent. Based on the overall season, I don’t think Shanahan lacks trust in Garoppolo, BUT Jimmy does make meat head mistakes. Can’t deny that. He also throws picks On shorter throws which are more likely to be taken back for TDs. No sense even chancing that yesterday.
He will play aggressive when he feels the game calls for it. Saints game is a perfect example. Came out firing early and often.
chinawildman
Footballguy
You don't think shanny lacks trust in Garp, but then proceeded to reel off a list of reasons you don't trust Garp. I would suspect those are the same reasons he doesn't trust Garp either.
I don't like it. I don't like it when a QB throws a pick and it looks like he gets put in timeout for it. I did seem like Shanny really wanted this first playoff win in his pocket... maybe that'll allow him to cut it loose a bit going forward.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They woulda been 2-0 against SEA this year had a rookie K not shanked a chippy into the tunnel.
and that game was without Kittle, Staley or Juice.
this is the heart of why I’m so sick of the Seahawks. No matter what the 49ers do against them, folks like you will act like there are “a lot of questions” to answer.
going on the road to the hostile environment of Seattle, in a must-win game to determine the 1-seed & home field advantage, the 49ers won. Without Dee Ford.
The questions should have been answered by virtue of Seattle having to go to Philly last week & playing at Lambeau today.
Seattle barely beat a Philly team featuring an as yet to be determined McCown, and I don’t hear anyone wondering about the questions Seattle has to answer. Their OL is a mess, they’re missing several key defensive players and they have 2 RBs they’ve signed since week 16. It’s getting a little ridiculous. I’d say Seattle has way more questions than the 13-win Niners at this point.
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But he hasn’t been put in “time out” in other games he has thrown picks. In fact, they showed a stat during the game showing how well Jimmy has bounced back after throwing a pick. In this game flow, there was no need to do anything more than they did.
Part of the reason the defense was dominant was the Vikings only ran 46 plays. Nobody breathing hard yesterday.
I do think it would be nice to beat the Seahawks convincingly and get that monkey off their back. Plus some 2013 revenge.
It would be more entertaining fan wise if they beat Seattle, but either way, if they make it to the big game and win, I think they will have answered all questions.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Uh no... if they blow them out and it's a laugher going away I won't have anymore questions.
But seeing as how my last impression of them vs. the seahawks is turning a 2 score lead w/ 6 minutes left into being an inch away from a loss... you'll understand why I'm critical of Shanny's rep for not putting teams away. That killer instinct is a hallmark of most great championship teams... I haven't seen that yet.
Wingnut
Footballguy
Interesting tweet from David Lombardi:
Shanahan was coaching for next Sunday for most of the game. He knew the 49er defense was untouchable and put next to nothing on film.
I can get down with that. I doubt he lets up against Rodgers or Wilson next week, knowing they can put their teams on their back and find a way to come back.
Shanahan was coaching for next Sunday for most of the game. He knew the 49er defense was untouchable and put next to nothing on film.
I can get down with that. I doubt he lets up against Rodgers or Wilson next week, knowing they can put their teams on their back and find a way to come back.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Yea I mean I'm also hoping Shanny's saving a bag of tricks for the next 2. I gladly hope I'm wrong in my assessment that he goes too conservative.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Now this is a good enough reason for me to go absolute vanilla in the 2nd half... Was hoping he was saving the best for last.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Because you’re a hater and can’t admit that going to Seattle and putting up a W in the most important game of the decade for them wasn’t enough?
yep - seeing it crystal clear.
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