Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter knowledge dropper
- Start date
Max Power
Footballguy
I don't understand your flat earth angle. This guy's claim is first hand knowledge of events. If this guy is lying on court documents, he faces the penalties that would come with it.
Mile High
Footballguy
Why are all these claims being made too the media? Seems like it would be better served to report claims to law enforcement. If they are made to law enforcement then who cares what the media says. From everything I have seen 12 cases have come before the courts and have been dismissed.
moleculo
Footballguy
If he is legit, he needs to find a better outlet than known fraudsters to tell his story.
yak651
Footballguy
Well the RNC keeps changing the number to report voter fraud, so maybe they don't know who else to call?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Wait, are you saying that someone can't claim that the earth is flat? It's IMPOSSIBLE? That is what you are claiming?
Max Power
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Nobody has first hand knowledge of tens of thousands of fraudulent votes, which is what you’re going to need to overturn any single state, and you’re going to need to overturn several states to change the result of this election.
Last edited by a moderator:
Max Power
Footballguy
It was in reference to the whistleblower vs flat earth claim.
But I do agree there, these one offs are small potatoes. The dominion/Hammer/scorecard claim is the one with the weight to swing the election.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Claims are taken seriously if the claim is made by a person who can be trusted, who doesn’t CLEARLY have a self-interested motive and can be substantiated.
In fact the claim should IMMEDIATELY be followed by evidence. Because the claim shouldn’t be made unless the person making the claim can prove it.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Overturning states doesn’t matter. It’s shining a light on these weasels and finding out what they did so people can have faith t ha t their vote counts.If voter fraud on a large scale happened people need to be held accountable.
truth be told I wouldn’t the unofficial decision reversed. I couldn’t imaging the hissy that would be thrown by the left
timschochet
Footballguy
Maybe you can explain to us what this is: I typed in “Dominion Hammer” to see if I could find it myself but all I got was a power metal album:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_(HammerFall_album)
mr roboto
Footballguy
Also, not all claims are equally important. Some random person on the Internet claiming that the earth is flat is basically irrelevant and harmless to most people. If I claim I can hit a golf ball 400 yards it’s obviously not true but also nobody’s gonna care one way or the other.
If I claim that one of my children’s teachers abuse them or that my business partner has been stealing money from the company without any real evidence and then go try to find evidence of that wouldn’t you agree that that’s an incredibly dangerous thing to do? I would argue that the sitting president openly denying the results of an election without any clear evidence to suggest widespread and rampant voter fraud and failing to allow the incoming president access to vital information during a pandemic is quite possibly the most dangerous claim you could make without any evidence.
If I claim that one of my children’s teachers abuse them or that my business partner has been stealing money from the company without any real evidence and then go try to find evidence of that wouldn’t you agree that that’s an incredibly dangerous thing to do? I would argue that the sitting president openly denying the results of an election without any clear evidence to suggest widespread and rampant voter fraud and failing to allow the incoming president access to vital information during a pandemic is quite possibly the most dangerous claim you could make without any evidence.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
There is no evidence that voter fraud on a large scale happened. There is no evidence that anyone should not have faith that their votes count.
Doug B
Footballguy
An unsolicited affidavit is not a court document. Around here, I can take $20 and a handwritten note to a notary, and get myself an affidavit. I can then use it as a book mark, or a coaster, or maybe as a wall hanging.
Affidavits outside of a trial setting (and sometimes not even there) aren't worth anything.
Doug B
Footballguy
Very, very slight crack in the door -- a potential whistleblower need not have the entire case solved with hard proof all around like at the end of a Scooby Doo episode.
HOWEVER: A potential whistleblower should be able to establish what would be akin to "probable cause" in a criminal investigation. Someone's say-so (aka hearsay) or someone's unsolicited affidavit (= no penalty for lying, and also hearsay) doesn't rise to the level of establishing "probable cause". That's why these claims aren't getting past summary judgment wherever they've been presented to a judge.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Dominion is a voting software used in about 30 states. Some non partisan background reading on it can be found here.
Sidney Powell has claimed the Hammer/scorecard (program/software) was used to manipulate the vote up to 3%.
It's a pretty bold claim by someone who I think is above the typical partisan personality. I know a couple media sites have claimed to have debunked it, but I hear the information is still being processed and vetted.
mr roboto
Footballguy
The more likely scenario is that this fits a pattern of Trump making out rages statements and then people around him trying to chase down a narrative or facts to back it up. He made this claim on Wednesday of last week so we’re now seven days in and there’s really no clear evidence at this point. The most powerful man in the world has had a week to make his case and they’re just simply isn’t one yet.
timschochet
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
With what evidence? Claims don't deserve to be taken seriously just because they are claims. I mean, anyone can claim something. Maybe I'd feel differently if Sidney had hereby claimed it, but probably not even then.
Max Power
Footballguy
It is in the process of being vetted. Feel free to ignore it if you think its bogus.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm simply trying to ascertain what the claim actually is. Can you give me the Cliff's Notes? "Fraud" isn't a claim.
Max Power
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
How? By whom? What information exists to lead one to that conclusion? Seriously, saying "up to 3% was fake" is no different than saying "there was fraud".
Max Power
Footballguy
Going after Flynn was a partisan hit job in the first place. Her calling it out and defending him is the right thing to do.
Max Power
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
So how can you possibly say it seems legit, if so far, it's just "fraud!!1!!" with no supporting evidence whatsoever?
This is continuing to be an Abbott and Costello skit.
R: There's fraud!
D: Where?
R: Over there!
D: Uh, where, exactly?
R: Well, we have to look for it first.
D: If you haven't looked, how do you know it's there?
R: We did look, we found a bunch, you should look too.
D: OK, where should we look?
R: Over there!
D: Uh, where exactly?
R: Well, we have to look for it first...
Max Power
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Forgive me for putting absolutely 0% faith in that.
ETA -- Not that you didn't hear it, but that whoever is telling you this knows this information with any sort of accuracy.
Last edited by a moderator:
Max Power
Footballguy
You're right. We're just going in circles. The level of proof you need to see just isnt out there yet. I think it will come, others are justified to be skeptical. I'm not going to spend the day trying to convince people of what I think is a plausible claim.So how can you possibly say it seems legit, if so far, it's just "fraud!!1!!" with no supporting evidence whatsoever?
This is continuing to be an Abbott and Costello skit.
R: There's fraud!
Where?
R: Over there!
R: Well, we have to look for it first.
R: We did look, we found a bunch, you should look too.
R: Over there!
R: Well, we have to look for it first...
Max Power
Footballguy
tuffnutt
Footballguy
My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw voter fraud election night. I guess it's pretty serious.
gianmarco
Footballguy
To be clear, if there is any evidence of voter fraud, I want to know. I don't care if it was a Republican or a Democrat committing it. And if there's evidence, then those votes need to be invalidated. I also want any evidence of fraud investigated.
With that out of the way, so far there is nothing to substantiate it. Nothing. Every court case has been tossed and tossed quickly because of how nonsensical the claims have been. And common sense would suggest you would bring your strongest case first. Not to mention, it's incredibly difficult to find voter fraud AFTER the fact. It's almost always discovered right away by officials during the process (since both Republicans and Democrats are there) and we are now over a week. The attempts to invalidate votes keep on changing. Postmark dates, observers not allowed, batches mixed, some people called in, etc. Pick a story and go with it.
Given the sequence of what's going on, a reasonable person would err on the side of this NOT being plausible but open to waiting for actual evidence. Thinking it's still plausible after multiple attempts WITHOUT evidence doesn't make sense to me.
The Football Freak
Footballguy
Are you talking about that PA postal worker’s claim? He recanted by affidavit to the IG office. I found a UPI article (in the AP family) with some more info than the early reporting earlier yesterday, with a quote from his postmaster, too.
Hopkins had originally signed an affidavit swearing he overheard a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructing postal workers to backdate ballots in Pennsylvania mailed after Nov. 3. The Erie postmaster, Rob Weisenbach, denied the allegations as 100% false and said the claims were made "by an employee that was recently disciplined multiple times."  "The Erie Post Office did not backdate any ballots," Wesenbach said.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm genuinely trying to understand why you think it's a plausible claim. Is it purely based on the credibility you attach to the person making the claim?
JAA
Footballguy
Why are they worth looking into?
If I said Trump was a communist, is that worth looking into?
timschochet
Footballguy
JAA
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Sidney Powell...I thought that name sounded familiar (and hardly above the typical partisan personality).
From the locked "The Biden Years" thread:
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/789455-the-biden-years-every-day-something-more-shocking-than-the-last/page/33/
Last edited by a moderator:
Max Power
Footballguy
That tied to the media already "debunking" the claim while the information is still be examined.
JAA
Footballguy
- looks fine to me
Doug B
Footballguy
He's blowing in the wind. He also set up a gofundme page that got up to $160K, then was quashed by GoFundMe.com. Less than nothing there.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
OK, we'll just have to disagree on this person's credibility.
Re: the media, if someone is out there saying "Dominion voting software is fraud!" and the GOP is screaming that we have to investigate, and I ran a media organization, I'd start doing background research on what Dominion software is.
Similar threads
