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TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (17 Viewers)

Rich Conway said:
OK, we'll just have to disagree on this person's credibility.

Re: the media, if someone is out there saying "Dominion voting software is fraud!" and the GOP is screaming that we have to investigate, and I ran a media organization, I'd start doing background research on what Dominion software is.
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I linked an article from Heavy above. It's a good read from a factual source. It's mostly background without claims involved. 

 
mr roboto said:
Also, not all claims are equally important. Some random person on the Internet claiming that the earth is flat is basically irrelevant and harmless to most people. If I claim I can hit a golf ball 400 yards it’s obviously not true but also nobody’s gonna care one way or the other.

If I claim that one of my children’s teachers abuse them or that my business partner has been stealing money from the company without any real evidence and then go try to find evidence of that wouldn’t you agree that that’s an incredibly dangerous thing to do? I would argue that the sitting president openly denying the results of an election without any clear evidence to suggest widespread and rampant voter fraud and failing to allow the incoming president access to vital information during a pandemic is quite possibly the most dangerous claim you could make without any evidence. 
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Correct.  You cant yell fire in a crowded movie theatre and you cant libel other people/businesses

 
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Max Power said:
JAA said:
Why are they worth looking into?

If I said Trump was a communist, is that worth looking into?
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What's the point of whistleblowers or poll watchers if we're going to immediately dismiss their claims?
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Whistleblowing requires two elements:

1) The courage to speak up
2) The goods -- something to establish probable cause, something beyond hearsay to establish that something requires further investigation.

"Something someone said" can never establish that something requires further investigation. Here's what a famous whistleblower (Cynthia Cooper) brought to the fore when she went public against telecommunications giant WorldCom in 2002:

During a meeting with the auditors, corporate finance director Sanjeev Sethi explained that differing amounts in two capital spending expenditures related to 'prepaid capacity'. No one in the room had ever heard that term before. When pressed for an explanation, Sethi said that he did not know what the term meant, even though his division approved capital spending requests. He referred the auditors to corporate controller David Myers. Suspicious, Cooper asked Mark Abide, head of property accounting, about the term. Abide was not familiar with it either, even though he had made several entries about 'prepaid capacity' in WorldCom's computerized accounting system.

Cooper and Smith asked senior associate Eugene Morse, one of the "techies" on the internal audit team, to peruse the accounting system for any references to 'prepaid capacity'. Morse was eventually able to find one and trace it through the system. However, the amounts were bouncing between accounts in an unusual manner, resulting in a large round amount moving from WorldCom's income statement to its balance sheet.

In 2002 Cooper asked Morse to see if there was another 'prepaid capacity' entry that moved around in similar fashion. Morse went to work, but pulled so much data that he frequently clogged up the accounting servers. Eventually, he and the rest of the team began working at night. Finally, on June 10, Morse found more entries about 'prepaid capacity'; large amounts had been transferred from the income statement to the balance sheet from the third quarter of 2001 to the first quarter of 2002.

At the time, this was the largest incident of accounting fraud in U.S. history.
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More about the internal investigations conducted by Cooper and others before the whistle was blown. Cooper and others working with her knew full well that going to the Security and Exchanges Commission with hearsay wasn't going to be near enough to get any traction.

 
Max Power said:
JAA said:
Why are they worth looking into?

If I said Trump was a communist, is that worth looking into?
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What's the point of whistleblowers or poll watchers if we're going to immediately dismiss their claims?
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It doesn't look to me that any claims have been immediately dismissed.  A senator parroted the claims.  An IG investigated.  Just because they are proven to be baseless quickly doesn't mean they were unjustly dismissed quickly.

 
HellToupee said:
Overturning states doesn’t matter. It’s shining a light on these weasels and finding out what they did so people can have faith t ha t their vote counts.If voter fraud on a large scale happened people need to be held accountable.

truth be told I wouldn’t the unofficial decision reversed. I couldn’t imaging the hissy that would be thrown by the left
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Most of them haven't shown up since Saturday but as soon as they do we'll alert you.

 
Another example of successful change-making whistleblowing: Karen Silkwood. The first few paragraphs at that link summarize her investigations and the evidence she uncovered. When she testified before the Atomic Energy Commission in 1974, she presented her evidence and further was accompanied by several coworkers who testified under oath about the safety conditions of the Kerr-McGee nuclear power plant.

 
The Football Freak said:
Are you talking about that PA postal worker’s claim? He recanted by affidavit to the IG office. I found a UPI article (in the AP family) with some more info than the early reporting earlier yesterday, with a quote from his postmaster, too.
 

Hopkins had originally signed an affidavit swearing he overheard a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructing postal workers to backdate ballots in Pennsylvania mailed after Nov. 3. The Erie postmaster, Rob Weisenbach, denied the allegations as 100% false and said the claims were made "by an employee that was recently disciplined multiple times."  "The Erie Post Office did not backdate any ballots," Wesenbach said.
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Supposedly this is false that he recanted 

LINK

A couple of things about this. I’m very leery of this guy. I think he’s a cca but maybe he became a career employee but I’m guessing he isn’t . Using “discipline” against ccas is a common practice and really means nothing  but it helps Wessenbach in the story. Cca’s are a temporary workforce that eventually transforms to  full time . They are overworked, underpaid and have around a 60% washout rate in a few months. They have no benefits and most areas treat them as disposable. His statement would mean a lot more to me if he had something to lose like a pension. Just my thoughts 

 
HellToupee said:
Supposedly this is false that he recanted 

LINK

A couple of things about this. I’m very leery of this guy. I think he’s a cca but maybe he became a career employee but I’m guessing he isn’t . Using “discipline” against ccas is a common practice and really means nothing  but it helps Wessenbach in the story. Cca’s are a temporary workforce that eventually transforms to  full time . They are overworked, underpaid and have around a 60% washout rate in a few months. They have no benefits and most areas treat them as disposable. His statement would mean a lot more to me if he had something to lose like a pension. Just my thoughts 
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Thanks for the inside info

 
@Max Power While I think your position is being viewed through rose colored partisan glasses I very much appreciate how you’ve handled yourself around here in the face of multiple people coming at you. Not easy to not get defensive. Also appreciate the other perspective as I know your voice represents a lot of people who feel the same way.

 
The Football Freak said:
Are you talking about that PA postal worker’s claim? He recanted by affidavit to the IG office. I found a UPI article (in the AP family) with some more info than the early reporting earlier yesterday, with a quote from his postmaster, too.
 

Hopkins had originally signed an affidavit swearing he overheard a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructing postal workers to backdate ballots in Pennsylvania mailed after Nov. 3. The Erie postmaster, Rob Weisenbach, denied the allegations as 100% false and said the claims were made "by an employee that was recently disciplined multiple times."  "The Erie Post Office did not backdate any ballots," Wesenbach said.
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The strangest part about this being used as evidence of widespread voter fraud is the fact that if they were backdating these ballots, it means they came in after November 3. We've seen numbers like there were only 1000 ballots that came in November 4 or later in the whole state of PA and none of them have been counted yet. And how many could have possibly come from Erie county? 3?

So even if this claim, which has been recanted when asked in an official setting, were true it doesn't matter even a little bit to the overall election. They gotta find 50,000 or so fraudulent votes somewhere else.

 
dkp993 said:
@Max Power While I think your position is being viewed through rose colored partisan glasses I very much appreciate how you’ve handled yourself around here in the face of multiple people coming at you. Not easy to not get defensive. Also appreciate the other perspective as I know your voice represents a lot of people who feel the same way.
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Agreed. And Happy Veterans Day @Max Power

 
dkp993 said:
@Max Power While I think your position is being viewed through rose colored partisan glasses I very much appreciate how you’ve handled yourself around here in the face of multiple people coming at you. Not easy to not get defensive. Also appreciate the other perspective as I know your voice represents a lot of people who feel the same way.
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Thanks. It's all good. I'm not going to lose sleep over message board disagreements. 

I know I'm looking through a pro trump lens. Although I think some people here have already spiked the football before the goal line has been crossed. 

 
dkp993 said:
Not lose sleep, for sure.  Not fire back with snarky comments, WAY WAY harder.  
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I have my poor moments for sure. I'm just feeling good today. This last year tested me (and everyone) in many different ways. I came through it better and more resilient than ever. I hope others can say the same and if not hopefully they reach out for help. 

Also I'm sure I'll be snarky in the future at times. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
11,000 incident reports and 500 sworn affidavits. 
 

https://rumble.com/vb117e-mcenany-and-rncs-mcdaniel-reveal-hundreds-of-affidavits-alleging-voter-frau.html
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I get a kick out of people totally dismissing voter fraud when the Dems have had their panties in a wad for 4 years of what was certainly the most hate-filled agenda in history. They simply couldn't accept the fact Trump won & decided to put America second to their party. 

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to suspect shananigans during this particular election & there's a tremendous amount of smoke. So much so it's scary. You guys have been asking how fraud could be pulled off? Watch the vid.

My hope is the truth comes out, WHATEVER it is.

 
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Football Jones said:
I get a kick out of people totally dismissing voter fraud when the Dems have had their panties in a wad for 4 years of what was certainly the most hate-filled agenda in history. They simply couldn't accept the fact Trump won & decided to put America second to their party. 

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to suspect shananigans during this particular election & there's a trmendous amount of smoke. So much so it's scary. You guys have been asking how fraud could be pulled off? Watch the vid.

My hope is the truth comes out, WHATEVER it is.
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I get a kick out of the people who totally dismissed Russian interference now jumping on board with voter fraud that has 1/10 the evidence it did. They simply can accept the fact Biden won & decided to put America second to their party. 

 
dkp993 said:
I get a kick out of the people who totally dismissed Russian interference now jumping on board with voter fraud that has 1/10 the evidence it did. They simply can accept the fact Biden won & decided to put America second to their party. 
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So going back to the Russia thing, huh? LOL.

This is to decide the POTUS & there may have been a massive amount of fraud.

That's what we should be discussing.

 
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Football Jones said:
I also get a kick out of people who just kept saying on & on how voter fraud could not possibly be pulled off. LOL.

Are you kidding me?

Of course it could.
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If it did happen to the magnitude to change 5 states this country is over.  Not really a bad thing as I believe a divorce is what this country needs.

 
Football Jones said:
So going back to the Russia thing, huh? LOL.

This is to decide the POTUS & there may have been a massive amount of fraud.

That's what we should be discussing.
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Not trying to re-litigate Russiagate.  But I guess discussing similar situations (POTUS election and voting) and how people responded is off limits now. Cool. 👍. I understand why that might be uncomfortable for some. 

 
dkp993 said:
I’m only speculating but it reads to me like he’s surrounding himself with people who will stand by his fight to stay.  
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To what end, though? I mean - its not like he's going to have a military coup. So what does he think is going to happen? 

I'm really curious about that. 

Lets say he's trying to get control of all the intelligence agencies. What does he do? What does he accomplish?

 
Mile High said:
If it did happen to the magnitude to change 5 states this country is over.  Not really a bad thing as I believe a divorce is what this country needs.
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Sadly, you might just be right. America seems to have gone in the dumpster in many ways. The blind hate these last 4 years was sickening to watch.

I wonder what kind of country my grandkids will grow up in.

I hope for the best, but we might need something akin to a Hail Mary TD pass to not see things come tumbling down in the near future.

Kinda depressing.

 
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Doug B said:
He's blowing in the wind. He also set up a gofundme page that got up to $160K, then was quashed by GoFundMe.com. Less than nothing there.
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I noticed that, too. It would explain his publicly recanting, while giving different sworn information to the IG. The sworn statement to the IG has to be the truth because of criminal liability, while the other does not. 

 
HellToupee said:
Supposedly this is false that he recanted 

LINK

A couple of things about this. I’m very leery of this guy. I think he’s a cca but maybe he became a career employee but I’m guessing he isn’t . Using “discipline” against ccas is a common practice and really means nothing  but it helps Wessenbach in the story. Cca’s are a temporary workforce that eventually transforms to  full time . They are overworked, underpaid and have around a 60% washout rate in a few months. They have no benefits and most areas treat them as disposable. His statement would mean a lot more to me if he had something to lose like a pension. Just my thoughts 
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Thanks for the info on the worker, HT. That’s interesting.

 
TheMagus said:
The strangest part about this being used as evidence of widespread voter fraud is the fact that if they were backdating these ballots, it means they came in after November 3. We've seen numbers like there were only 1000 ballots that came in November 4 or later in the whole state of PA and none of them have been counted yet. And how many could have possibly come from Erie county? 3?

So even if this claim, which has been recanted when asked in an official setting, were true it doesn't matter even a little bit to the overall election. They gotta find 50,000 or so fraudulent votes somewhere else.
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A lot of these cases being brought wouldn’t change the outcome, just give some rhetorical cover to keep the supporters on board and interested. You could also look to the campaign having used some loopholes to keep campaign funding coming through until mid December. A riled up base tends to donate. 

 
whoknew said:
To what end, though? I mean - its not like he's going to have a military coup. So what does he think is going to happen? 

I'm really curious about that. 

Lets say he's trying to get control of all the intelligence agencies. What does he do? What does he accomplish?
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The answer to those good questions can/will run the gambit, from reasonable (not the reason but the answer) to flat earth conspiracies level. I tend to lean the direction of the former.  I do not think he’s thinking long term, that’s not his bag imo, he’s a read and react type of guy.  He also can’t stand differing opinions under the most normal of circumstances.  So right now he want to surround himself solely with people who will nod, agree and go along. He truly believes he can will himself to another term and in many ways you can’t blame him.  He seems immune to normal rules of life.  

 
Thunderlips said:
What's the penalty for lying on an affidavit?
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It is perjury.  Think they need to prove it in court that there was voter fraud that changed the outcome of the election. I hingly doubt they will win in any court but guess if he wants to sue and not deal with his lose that is Trump's  choice.

 
Football Jones said:
I also get a kick out of people who just kept saying on & on how voter fraud could not possibly be pulled off. LOL.

Are you kidding me?

Of course it could.
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I agree with this.  But I also believe that if it happened on one side, it likely happened on the other side as well.   :shrug:   

 
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