What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

TRUMP TO INFINITY AND BEYOND HQ - The Great and Positive Place (15 Viewers)

NorvilleBarnes said:
Do you guys oppose a sample signature audit? If so, why?

Seems like the type of thing that can help with credibility and an odd thing to oppose.
Click to expand...
Yes. Because the guy in charge of the voting in Georgia (a Republican) said it was a fair and free election, and the ballots have been separated from the signature so an audit would be impossible. 
 

Your guy lost, nationally by a substantial margin. Give it up, this is embarrassing. 

 
BoltBacker said:
... says the person that likes to throw around, "defund the police" without having a clue what that means.
Click to expand...
Huh?  It's pretty self explanatory.  There really is no other meaning.  There is no way to misconstrue what that means.

I have ZERO idea what it could alternatively mean but I'm excited to hear why you think "defund the police" doesn't actually mean what it really means in it's LITERAL translation.  Because that is what they are LITERALLY calling for. And if you think that's not true then let me point you to Minneapolis as one example.

I mean, seriously, I had to chuckle at your post because it sounded so absurd. 

And where do you come off saying I'm throwing it around? I think I've only mentioned it once.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NorvilleBarnes said:
timschochet said:
Also stop with the “my side wants to defund the police” please. Nobody whom I voted for is in favor of that. 
Click to expand...
For someone who paints with extremely broad brushes, you always seem to want a little more detail for yourself.
Click to expand...
Well, the way timschochet phrased this, it's a pretty small brush.  I suspect he only voted for 6 or so candidates.  My state didn't have a Senate election this year, so I voted for 4 or 5, depending on whether you count Biden and Harris as 1 candidate or 2.

 
Capella said:
Yes. Because the guy in charge of the voting in Georgia (a Republican) said it was a fair and free election...
Click to expand...


Brad Raffensperger was facing calls to resign by the DNC after bungling the primaries in June. Georgia, under his watch, rolled out a 107 million dollar new Dominion system and rushed it in despite massive legal conflict where it was slammed forward by Judge Amy Totenberg who is a Obama/DNC loyalist, replacing the previous 30 million dollar system, where everyone complained that there would not be enough time to train people to use them properly. This is after DNC power players Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar, POTUS contenders, went publicly to denounce the integrity/security of Dominion systems and lent accusations of Raffensperger engaging in voter suppression based on constant breakdowns of the new DVS units.

Then you have close to 120K contestable votes (dead people, felons, underage, etc) WITHOUT even beginning  the discussion of signature matching and a hard count of envelopes to ballots and WITHOUT dealing with the video showing four people shoving in votes when observers were gone creating a 98 percent "for Biden" vote drop that DEFIES ALL KNOWN UNDERSTANDING OF MATHEMATICAL AND STATISTICAL REALITY.

https://billmoyers.com/story/georgias-hand-count-of-2020-ballots-was-no-risk-limiting-audit/

Then Raffensperger does not choose a recount nor an actual risk limiting audit, which are Georgia election guidelines, to the criticism of the guy who created the RLA system in the first place and has come out and said there is no evidence this is a "fair and free election", but then Genius Brad selects a hybrid system that has no actual legal basis.

This in the backdrop of Stacey Abrams, after a failed and contested run for Governor, barnstorming up to 850,000 new voters to register amid claims spin off groups under her and Ralph Warnock's control are engaging in voter registration fraud (i.e. over 60K underage registered and voted).

So Raffensperger's investigators from the SOS office, under the pressure to save their own jobs and Raffensperger's career from going up in total flames, say "No, no, no, nothing is wrong"

Brad Raffensperger is trying to save his own hide. His partisan leanings are now irrelevant. Both Trump and Governor Kemp want to lay the entire blame on him and the entire DNC can't avoid the reality that they called for his head themselves but are only staying silent now since the numbers favor Biden currently.

Wait, I interrupted you, you were saying something about a "free and fair election"

Go on, item by item from above in clear conflict, unpack how you can resolve all of that to call this a free and fair election in Georgia.

Let me also point out, in order to do this, you'd have to violate and rewrite the history of mathematics and statistics across all of recorded human history. You'd win a Nobel Prize (multiple) and then be considered a threat to national security (cryptography) for every nuclear power on the face of the Earth.

Go on, Chris, we are all waiting here.

 
Mr. Ham said:
Say we had a very popular cult leader (not Trump) calling governors and holding rallies ginning up followers based in claims God has elected him as President. Say that was gaining some momentum and rhetoric was turning violent, and sorry I have to write this, but in this hypothetical God did not elect him (there was an actual election,) what’s the remedy?

  • Would leaders start to speak out?
  • Would police and national guard be called?
  • At what point would the dangers of this be recognized and acted upon?
  • What would or should be done?
Click to expand...
If you're not talking about Trump, you should probably start a new thread for this hypothetical. 

 
BladeRunner said:
yeah, more gas lighting from you. I find it funny that the only fraud is an elections were the ones where Democrats lost.  But this election? Oh my God it's the fairest election ever!

Give me a break.  You're being so dishonest it's not even funny at this point.
Click to expand...
"It's Not What You Know.....It's What You Can Prove" - Alonzo Harris

I'm fine with the election timeline running this year as it should and, in 5-10 years from now, when real, in depth analysis is conducted showing that Trump actually had a case, admitting that I was wrong.  Mr. Ham is right in the sense(paraphrasing and expanding on his point) that while Republicans cry to the heavens in regards to voter fraud election night and post election....they often conviently look a blind eye to voter fraud pre-election. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
Also, please remember I voted for Trump in 2016, and could care less about any political era over the overarching principles, laws, and ethical behaviors that ensure that system continues.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reminder.  I’m glad that you are apparently anti-Trump now, but it’s mind boggling to me that you fell for his con in the first place. 

Why do you think you made such a poor choice that helped lead to what we are dealing with now?

 
Capella said:
Yes. Because the guy in charge of the voting in Georgia (a Republican) said it was a fair and free election, and the ballots have been separated from the signature so an audit would be impossible. 
 

Your guy lost, nationally by a substantial margin. Give it up, this is embarrassing. 
Click to expand...
This.

This isn't even remotely the case in 2000, where a single partisan woman in a state whose Governor was the Republican POTUS' brother controlled the narrative.  There are a number of Republicans at high levels of this voting situation, including several judges appointed by Trump who are all saying the same thing.  

And if the depth of the "conspiracy" is still that bad (Republican politicians and Trump appointed judges) after 4 years of Trump exposing it....do you really trust him to uproot it?

 
tommyGunZ said:
Thanks for the reminder.  I’m glad that you are apparently anti-Trump now, but it’s mind boggling to me that you fell for his con in the first place. 

Why do you think you made such a poor choice that helped lead to what we are dealing with now?
Click to expand...
As someone who wasn’t anti Trump in 2016 and voted for neither he nor Clinton, I can chime in.  My 2016 vote was more about being angry at our current political climate and less about the candidates. I was angry and the political machines (Clinton’s) and the moral high ground of the D’s and then the gerrymandering and IMO unethical conduct of the R’s.  That’s why I voted for neither.

I was wrong 

I had no idea how bad Trump could be. If I could go back in time I would change my vote to Hilary. Not because she would have been a good president, I don’t think she would be. I think she would have been the second most pompous president next to Trump. She also would continue to build the Clinton foundation which leaves a lot to be desired. However, she would not have set back out democracy 20-30 years. Yes, Rs would be angry and yes there would be a pendulum swing, but nothing as bad as Trump.  I think that would have been the better play for our country  

Here is my commitment going forward to the RNC - give me any reasonable candidate. Anyone who isn’t a narcissistic sociopath and I will vote for them. I’m fine with a R president for the rest of my lifetime* if it isn’t Trump or his ilk and then senate and the house are D controlled.
 

* - what the R’s did with SCOTUS was not cool and needs to be fixed  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Bryant said:
And let's be real, we're not talking "trust" in the sense of letting someone watch your children. Or to repay you money. The "stakes" are pretty low in we're trusting the person to be cool. And to de-escalate the rancor. If they betray that trust, the worst we are off is back to where we are already. There's not a lot at risk. 

But I think it takes trust. 
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of what you say about trust, but I think your privilege is showing here.  There isn’t much risk foe folks like you and I, but that’s not the case for many people who don’t look like us and people who aren’t as set socio-economically.  There is a lot at risk for people of color, people living at the margins, women, etc., and that is why you see the extremely raw and emotional pushback against Trumpism.

Is this one of those times in our countries history where the rancor and pushback are warranted?  I generally lean toward no but the more I see 70 million people supporting a fascist who is attempting to overturn our election, I wonder if the ugliness we are seeing will be viewed as heroic in history books.  🤷‍♂️ 

 
tommyGunZ said:
I agree with a lot of what you say about trust, but I think your privilege is showing here.  There isn’t much risk foe folks like you and I, but that’s not the case for many people who don’t look like us and people who aren’t as set socio-economically.  There is a lot at risk for people of color, people living at the margins, women, etc., and that is why you see the extremely raw and emotional pushback against Trumpism.

Is this one of those times in our countries history where the rancor and pushback are warranted?  I generally lean toward no but the more I see 70 million people supporting a fascist who is attempting to overturn our election, I wonder if the ugliness we are seeing will be viewed as heroic in history books.  🤷‍♂️ 
Click to expand...
For sure it's easier for me to trust. I would assume that's understood by everyone. 

It's also important to understand what I wrote. As I said, I'm not talking about trusting someone to watch your kids or repay you money. I'm talking about trust in how we talk to each other. That's low risk. 

 
JAA said:
As someone who wasn’t anti Trump in 2016 and voted for neither he nor Clinton, I can chime in.  My 2016 vote was more about being angry at our current political climate and less about the candidates. I was angry and the political machines (Clinton’s) and the moral high ground of the D’s and then the gerrymandering and IMO unethical conduct of the R’s.  That’s why I voted for neither.

I was wrong 

I had no idea how bad Trump could be. If I could go back in time I would change my vote to Hilary. Not because she would have been a good president, I don’t think she would be. I think she would have been the second most pompous president next to Trump. She also would continue to build the Clinton foundation which leaves a lot to be desired. However, she would not have set back out democracy 20-30 years. Yes, Rs would be angry and yes there would be a pendulum swing, but nothing as bad as Trump.  I think that would have been the better play for our country  

Here is my commitment going forward to the RNC - give me any reasonable candidate. Anyone who isn’t a narcissistic sociopath and I will vote for them. I’m fine with a R president for the rest of my lifetime* if it isn’t Trump or his ilk and then senate and the house are D controlled.
 

* - what the R’s did with SCOTUS was not cool and needs to be fixed  
Click to expand...
Thanks for the thoughtful post JAA.  I wish more folks were like you in the Republican Party these days. 
My only question is why you don’t hold any other Republican (other than Trump) responsible for the dumpster fire we are seeing now?  You say you’d vote for any reasonable candidate, yet virtually the entire party has actively supported and continued to support Trumpism for the last 4 years.  Is Marco Rubio reasonable?  I would have said yes 4 years ago, but not after seeing him kiss Trumps ring for 4 years.  
 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Bryant said:
For sure it's easier for me to trust. I would assume that's understood by everyone. 

It's also important to understand what I wrote. As I said, I'm not talking about trusting someone to watch your kids or repay you money. I'm talking about trust in how we talk to each other. That's low risk. 
Click to expand...
Do you really think privilege is understood by everyone?  My experience has been the opposite.  So many folks like you and I Joe refuse to admit or acknowledge their good fortune, which of course includes being white and male in America. 

I 100% agree with you in regard to bringing back civility.  

 
  • Love
Reactions: JAA
Joe Bryant said:
For sure it's easier for me to trust. I would assume that's understood by everyone. 

It's also important to understand what I wrote. As I said, I'm not talking about trusting someone to watch your kids or repay you money. I'm talking about trust in how we talk to each other. That's low risk. 
Click to expand...
I don't think that's trust. That's civility. You don't need to trust someone to be civil to them. Trust implies a much greater degree of familiarity, intent, and there's also a power relationship involved that isn't part of civility.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Bryant said:
For sure it's easier for me to trust. I would assume that's understood by everyone. 

It's also important to understand what I wrote. As I said, I'm not talking about trusting someone to watch your kids or repay you money. I'm talking about trust in how we talk to each other. That's low risk. 
Click to expand...
True...especially in response to a "well, we will just wait to be nice til the next Republican POTUS to see if Dems will be nice"...a notion that would ensure another 4 years minimum of vitriol and division.  (Which is obviously what you do not want...I think many of us do not want that).

 
Mr. Ham said:
2026: I never would have selected Trump or Hillary as stewards of our representative system of government. I was also in a state already decided for Trump.

I was extremely torn, and was leaning to hold my nose and vote Hillary—which I almost assuredly would have done if I lived in a swing state.

Within a few hours of when I voted early, tone deaf Hillary campaign announced that it had planned a fireworks show at the Javitz Center for her presumed win. (This was later cancelled, but after I voted.) This act of hubris, coupled with fact my wife and in laws voted for Hillary, pushed me over the edge and I voted Republican all the way down the ticket. My thinking, presuming Hillary would win, was I wanted a balance of power because I recognized that her agenda and campaign and entirely and arrogantly looked past “flyover America.”

I also thought America might need a dose of reality to remind it that we must tend to our system lest it take us undesirable places, so thought Trump might wake people up to re-engage and pay attention. The five million or so who marched in January sort of validated this. 

However, I did not think he’d win the election.

After the election, I was squarely in the “give Trump a chance” camp. 

As I’ve said before, I would not repeat my choice because I vastly underestimated his brazenness and the complicity of Congress to abandon cherished norms in an attempt to gain a permanent majority.

And I would not have made the same choices in a swing state. 

I never, ever would have selected Trump as a viable political candidate, but that’s what happened. And I made a choice that was inconsequential, but I still regret it. 

Will note that my “give Trump a chance” stance melted entirely after reading the first 70 pages of the Trump/Russia thread in February of 2017, when I realized (and it was subsequently confirmed in the Mueller Report) that Trump’s campaign worked unethically with foreign actors to push disinformation, and that it had engaged in other un-American fraud. 

Four years later, here we are. And if you watched the video opening Trump’s rally yesterday, it’s a monster truck rally dystopian hellscape. I want things to normalize.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ham. I’ve always been a fan of you personally even though we often disagree politically.  This is another time where we disagree.  You vote is never “inconsequential”.  There are many ways to express your regret that Hillary Clinton was the Democratic nominee. Vote for a 3rd party.  Don’t vote at all.  Leave the Presidential vote blank, and vote down ticket only. Voting for Trump should never have been on the table.  Let’s be clear, it’s not just votes in swing states that count. EVERY vote counts.  You will forever be one of the 64.5M people who actively voted for Trump in 2016.  Those aggregate vote totals matter.  If Trump had lost the popular vote by 10M or 15M, he would have been much further constrained and who know where we would be now. But you didn’t just actively support Trump, you went far above and beyond by voting Republican straight ticket, helping support his enablers and those at the state and local level who are now full fledged Trumpists.  You sent a signal to the Republican Party that not only do you support Trump, but you were doing everything possible with your vote to completely support his agenda and those implementing it.

Again, I’m glad you are now anti-Trump. It is difficult for humans to admit they are wrong, so I applaud you for that. I would ask that you continue to reflect on that decision, because it still sounds like you believe a lot of the anti-Hillary nonsense from 2016 that helped you rationalize such a poor choice. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
Much of my political thinking is guided by being able to look people in the eye. I mentioned my gay and lesbian friends. Same is true with minorities I know. I live in an area with a large Asian population (mostly Chinese and Indian tech workers.) Woman I’d see everyday at my kid’s bus stop was confronted in a Home Depot and told to get the f out of the country. I want it know to her, and my other friends and acquaintances, that I wasn’t ambiguous in this era. I was against it: the shady politics, the charged rhetoric, the rallying around inequity.

Much of my reaction comes from the simple fact that when measured by suffering of people, most quite unlike me, what I observe coming from Trumpism is wrong.
Click to expand...
This is a fantastic post.  I agree 💯 Ham.  You’re a good dude.  👍

 
tommyGunZ said:
My only question is why you don’t hold any other Republican (other than Trump) responsible for the dumpster fire we are seeing now?  You say you’d vote for any reasonable candidate, yet virtually the entire party has actively supported and continued to support Trumpism for the last 4 years.  Is Marco Rubio reasonable?  I would have said yes 4 years ago, but not after seeing him kiss Trumps ring for 4 years.  
 
Click to expand...
We all know why they acted like this. Just as back in the day when Joe McCarthy was Senator, Republicans in Congress either went along or shut up about it. Because they’re terrified of the base. 
A majority of Republican voters believed in the Birther nonsense. A majority of Republican voters believe this election was stolen from President Trump. So the politicians, who know better, feel they have to go along or they will be primaried by Qanon replacements. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
tommyGunZ said:
Do you really think privilege is understood by everyone?  My experience has been the opposite.  So many folks like you and I Joe refuse to admit or acknowledge their good fortune, which of course includes being white and male in America. 

I 100% agree with you in regard to bringing back civility.  
Click to expand...
Most everyone on this forum, yes. Overall, I"m sure less. 

Most everyone of my real life friends that are white and male would say of course they have had some advantages. And they've worked their butts off from there. And I'd completely agree. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
We all know why they acted like this. Just as back in the day when Joe McCarthy was Senator, Republicans in Congress either went along or shut up about it. Because they’re terrified of the base. 
A majority of Republican voters believed in the Birther nonsense. A majority of Republican voters believe this election was stolen from President Trump. So the politicians, who know better, feel they have to go along or they will be primaried by Qanon replacements. 
Click to expand...
Agreed.  Which is why I asked JAA about it.  Clearly JAA sees how despicable Trump is; I was just surprised that in literally the same post of expressing his disdain for Trump that he vowed to support Trump’s enablers.

Reality is, there are millions of folks like JAA, and that’s what the Rubios and Lindsey Grahams and Mitch McConnells are counting on. Once Trump is gone, they will act like they weren’t a part of it, and hope that voters like JAA  excuse them and come back into the Republican fold.  And sadly, they are probably right.  And so those guys will continue to lead the Party with little to no penalty for enabling Trumpism and essentially allowing a non-violent coup attempt.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Thanks for the thoughtful post JAA.  I wish more folks were like you in the Republican Party these days. 
My only question is why you don’t hold any other Republican (other than Trump) responsible for the dumpster fire we are seeing now?  You say you’d vote for any reasonable candidate, yet virtually the entire party has actively supported and continued to support Trumpism for the last 4 years.  Is Marco Rubio reasonable?  I would have said yes 4 years ago, but not after seeing him kiss Trumps ring for 4 years.  
 
Click to expand...
Great question.  I can honestly say that what President Trump gave me and this country was unexpected.  I didn’t see it coming, and as I stated I would have voted differently and taken a much more proactive approach had I known it could get this bad.  But, as I will attempt to explain below I don’t usually blame politicians for being politicians. That’s expected. What I do blame are voters voting for someone and expecting them to be someone who we know they aren’t.  

Here is my example, Mitch McConnell (MM). MM is a politician through and through. How he approaches his role is disgusting IMHO. It should be clear to all by now that he serves the R agenda of “trolling the libs”.  If Ds ask for anything, even if it’s across the isle with R support, he says no. And guess what?  His constituents love him for it. They keep electing him over and over. So I believe we have to ask ourselves the chicken or the egg here. Is MM a product of his voters or are his voters a product of his nature?  I find it rare that any politician influences the population. I find that politicians are creatures of what the voters want and they will shift and maneuver to always be in a positive light of their base.

Do I blame MM for doing whatever is necessary for him to get re-elected?  No. I blame his voters for loving him for that behavior and allowing it to continue.

Ultimately I believe the power is always with the people.  I realize that there are a number of forces working against the common voter, but I still believe in the will of the people. We are the ones with the power.  Powers at be constantly try to influence us that we can’t make a difference.  They are wrong and don’t let them ever convince you of that we aren’t the ones is charge.

How do I know this?  Well, I won’t go into the personal details but I’ve seen how this can work at the town levels. Seeing the will of the people, people who self organize and choose to make a positive difference does work and it’s a beautiful sight. Everyone plays a role. Some are organizers, some are cheerleaders, some are bridge builders, and someone has to be the face. This can work against the forces of local special interest money machines, even nefarious ones.  Watching the state come down and do the right thing is also beautiful.  But it starts with caring.  It starts with saying enough is enough.  It starts with holding your elected officials accountable  

Ill wrap with the advice I gave here some time ago. Want to make a change?  Vote local and vote for non-politicians. Vote for everyday people who want to make positive change or change the status quo of self-serving politics. Elected positions should NEVER be a career job.

Just my opinions here ... hope I wasn’t too long winded. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Agreed.  Which is why I asked JAA about it.  Clearly JAA sees how despicable Trump is; I was just surprised that in literally the same post of expressing his disdain for Trump that he vowed to support Trump’s enablers.

Reality is, there are millions of folks like JAA, and that’s what the Rubios and Lindsey Grahams and Mitch McConnells are counting on. Once Trump is gone, they will act like they weren’t a part of it, and hope that voters like JAA  excuse them and come back into the Republican fold.  And sadly, they are probably right.  And so those guys will continue to lead the Party with little to no penalty for enabling Trumpism and essentially allowing a non-violent coup attempt.  
Click to expand...
Of course that will happen. But it’s better that it does. I would like to return to a reasonable Republican Party, however we get there. 

 
timschochet said:
tommyGunZ said:
Agreed.  Which is why I asked JAA about it.  Clearly JAA sees how despicable Trump is; I was just surprised that in literally the same post of expressing his disdain for Trump that he vowed to support Trump’s enablers.

Reality is, there are millions of folks like JAA, and that’s what the Rubios and Lindsey Grahams and Mitch McConnells are counting on. Once Trump is gone, they will act like they weren’t a part of it, and hope that voters like JAA  excuse them and come back into the Republican fold.  And sadly, they are probably right.  And so those guys will continue to lead the Party with little to no penalty for enabling Trumpism and essentially allowing a non-violent coup attempt.  
Click to expand...
Of course that will happen. But it’s better that it does. I would like to return to a reasonable Republican Party, however we get there. 
Click to expand...
I may have glossed over this, but I’m a registered D. However, in the spirit of compromise I’m willing to vote R to never have another Trump-like candidate again. That is how far I’m willing to go. 

 
timschochet said:
Of course that will happen. But it’s better that it does. I would like to return to a reasonable Republican Party, however we get there. 
Click to expand...
That’s political extortion tim. Elect our right wingers like Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton or else you may get Trump! 

I want rational conservatism back as well.  But not because I’m being held hostage. Whatever happens to winning with ideas?  Has conservatism just given up? 

 
tommyGunZ said:
I agree with a lot of what you say about trust, but I think your privilege is showing here.  There isn’t much risk foe folks like you and I, but that’s not the case for many people who don’t look like us and people who aren’t as set socio-economically.  There is a lot at risk for people of color, people living at the margins, women, etc., and that is why you see the extremely raw and emotional pushback against Trumpism.

Is this one of those times in our countries history where the rancor and pushback are warranted?  I generally lean toward no but the more I see 70 million people supporting a fascist who is attempting to overturn our election, I wonder if the ugliness we are seeing will be viewed as heroic in history books.  🤷‍♂️ 
Click to expand...
This gaslighting has to stop.  You have no idea what a "fascist" is. Between you and @Mr. Ham, your constant gaslighting, revisionist history, demonization and fake outrage is what makes these forums almost intolerable.  You're wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start but it's about time someone called you out on your :bs: .    The tone deafness of your post considering what "the left" has also put us thru the last for years is beyond absurd.  You really have ZERO ground to lecture us on overturning elections, much less what a dictator is.

As I posted somewhere in here yesterday, you should really live under a real fascist to know what a REAL fascist is.  Or maybe you should talk to someone who has lived under them to get some kind of perspective because, like all the other super-charged words in the American language, you've used it so much for those that don't vote like you that it's lost all meaning.  People who come from those countries - who escape TO America - simply cannot believe that we do this.  That we have a portion of our people who push Socialism as well (but that's a side point).  To them, it's unbelievable because they've literally lived under those types of regimes whereas types like you still wear Che Guevara t-shirts and romanticize about that stuff.

Also, as far as white privilege goes - don't care.  It's simply a term made up by the left to initiate wealth redistribution.  If you care so much about it, how about giving up most everything you own and have to the underprivileged you pretend to care about?  Maybe when I see you and those like you doing it, I'll reconsider my position.  But you're not asking for that - you're asking for OTHERS to do it.  You're keeping what you got, for sure.  But, hey, at least you look good saying it.

Needless to say, America has made GREAT strides in overcoming the ugly stain of slavery but it's never enough with you guys.  You won't be happy until when?  When you've exacted your revenge?  What does that look like?  South Africa?  Because to those with a more level-headed perspective this looks a path towards payback, not equality.  Make no mistake about it:  Fighting racism with more racism is NOT the answer.

Posting what you did only HARDENS the divisions.  I implore you to wake up and realize what you're doing.

Anyways, I'm sure someone will report me due to the sensitive nature of individuals, but this needed to be said.  You should be more like @Joe Bryant - he's the level-headed, concerned "lefty" guys like me hope for that want to extend an olive branch and move forward.  What you're posting is literally the exact opposite - and it's a fake, made-up type of opposite that only exists in your head.

Sorry, Joe, but I had to let this out because those types of posts infuriate me because they are so inaccurate and condescending that I feel the need to push back.  I will accept any punishment you feel is appropriate.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
tommyGunZ said:
That’s political extortion tim. Elect our right wingers like Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton or else you may get Trump! 

I want rational conservatism back as well.  But not because I’m being held hostage. Whatever happens to winning with ideas?  Has conservatism just given up? 
Click to expand...
I would say yes in many ways it has. Look at free trade. Nearly every conservative in Congress is for it. When’s the last time any of them have argued for it? They’re afraid to. 

 
BladeRunner said:
This gaslighting has to stop.  
Click to expand...


I agree with this. And I agree with what you wrote in general about fascism. 

Yesterday you posted that anyone who voted for Biden and Harris voted in favor of defunding the police. I would suggest this is gaslighting. I would suggest that you have no idea what defunding the police means. I think you should apply your gaslighting comment to yourself in the same way you apply it to others. 

 
timschochet said:
I agree with this. And I agree with what you wrote in general about fascism. 

Yesterday you posted that anyone who voted for Biden and Harris voted in favor of defunding the police. I would suggest this is gaslighting. I would suggest that you have no idea what defunding the police means. I think you should apply your gaslighting comment to yourself in the same way you apply it to others. 
Click to expand...
"Defunding the Police" leaves ZERO interpretation other than what it means, IMO.  I mean, look at Minneapolis as one example.  Also, BLM itself says "defunding" means "abolishing" and MANY Democrats are behind that.

Heck, even your superstar and power player in the Democratic Party AOC said it: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

So, yeah, "defunding the police" means exactly how it sounds.  Why do we always try to side-step what people say?  Why not just take them at their word?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BladeRunner said:
"Defunding the Police" leaves ZERO interpretation other than what it means, IMO.  I mean, look at Minneapolis as one example.  Also, BLM itself says "defunding" means "abolishing" and MANY Democrats are behind that.

Heck, even your superstar and power player in the Democratic Party AOC said it: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/505307-ocasio-cortez-dismisses-proposed-1b-cut-defunding-police-means-defunding

So, yeah, "defunding the police" means exactly how it sounds.  Why do we always try to side-step what people say?  Why not just take them at their word?
Click to expand...
AOC isn’t my anything. Again please stop gaslighting. Thank you. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
It was enough of an issue for the party that President Obama addressed it cautioning Democrats to stop using the phrase. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/politics/barack-obama-defund-the-police/index.html
Click to expand...
And he was right. I started a thread about what a disastrous phrase it was. 
But again, not the point. Yesterday @BladeRunner accused me and other Biden supporters of being in favor of defunding the police. When I pointed out that this was not so, he wrote that anyone who voted for Biden and Harris was in favor of defunding the police. That would include you too Joe. I took umbrage at that statement. 
This morning, BladeRunner wrote that he wishes the gaslighting would stop. I agree with him. He is one of those who need to stop gaslighting. 

 
Gaslighting is one of those trendy popular terms often used incorrectly. 

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment.[1] It may evoke changes in them such as cognitive dissonance or low self-esteem, rendering the victim additionally dependent on the gaslighter for emotional support and validation. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.

Instances can range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents occurred, to belittling the victim's emotions and feelings, to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. The goal of gaslighting is to gradually undermine the victim’s confidence in their own ability to distinguish truth from falsehood, right from wrong, or reality from delusion, thereby rendering the individual or group pathologically dependent on the gaslighter for their thinking and feelings.

The term originated from the British play Gas Light (1938), performed as Angel Street in the United States, and its 1940 and 1944 film adaptations (both titled Gaslight). The term has now been used in clinical psychological literature,[2][3] as well as in political commentary and philosophy.[4]
Click to expand...
I'd rather us just stick to:

  • Facts.
  • Links to stories.
  • Not making broad generalizations. "All Democrats are _______" etc.
"Defund the Police" has been an explosive comment. Many have been clear to make sure they mean way more than "reform". Words like "Abolish" or "Dismantle". 

Leaders like Bernie Sanders downplayed it was being said which Republicans loved to show him the politicians saying it. 

President Elect Biden hasn't said defund the police. President Obama came out saying not to say it. 

On the Republican side, I don't know nationally, but the people I know in real life that are Republicans are very much in favor of reforming the police. They may be white, but they have teenage kids that do dumb stuff and can possibly put themselves in potentially dangerous situations with police. They are not fans of a powerful police union that covers for bad cops. 

That's the more full picture in my opinion. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joe Bryant said:
Gaslighting is one of those trendy popular terms often used incorrectly. 

I'd rather us just stick to:

  • Facts.
  • Links to stories.
  • Not making broad generalizations. "All Democrats are _______" etc.
"Defund the Police" has been an explosive comment. Many have been clear to make sure they mean way more than "reform". Words like "Abolish" or "Dismantle". 

Leaders like Bernie Sanders downplayed it was being said which Republicans loved to show him the politicians saying it. 

President Elect Biden has not said. President Obama came out saying not to say it. 

On the Republican side, I don't know nationally, but the people I know in real life that are Republicans are very much in favor of reforming the police. They may be white, but they have teenage kids that do dumb stuff and can possibly put themselves in potentially dangerous situations with police. They are not fans of a powerful police union that covers for bad cops. 

That's the more full picture in my opinion. 
Click to expand...
The bolded is incorrect: 

https://youtu.be/OKsV0m6srTE

 
Sorry I may have misunderstood what you meant by “Biden has not said.” I thought you meant he hasn’t taken a position. He is opposed to defunding the police. 

 
timschochet said:
Sorry I may have misunderstood what you meant by “Biden has not said.” I thought you meant he hasn’t taken a position. He is opposed to defunding the police. 
Click to expand...
I added words so it's perfectly clear. 

I already said he didn't say it above in the previous post. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
Since we’re going anecdotal, one of my very best friends voted for Trump. He and his wife, whom are like family, are quite successful and built one of the nicest homes I’ve ever seen in rural Massachusetts. Like it’s the nicest property in their rather affluent town. I stay with them when I’m in the neighborhood and my friend is probably the person I’ve laughed with the most in my time on Earth. We shared a small bedroom for three years in college.

We’ve had frank conversations that are revealing and quite different than your friends.

For him, it comes down to this:

1. Anyone who works hard in America will succeed to the level of effort, period—he will stress anyone. 

2. Let’s be honest (he says,) the cars the poor cops have to stop in these barbarous neighborhoods are statically more dangerous and they have to deal with the nightmare of flotsam and jetsam daily. Imagine the stress! Until that changes, good for them that they crack down on these cesspool neighborhoods where everyone is on welfare and does drugs. Want out? Refer to #1. Work harder. Go to night school.

3. We’ve worked hard to build our own paradise and we don’t want to subsidize the mess that are our liberal cities. If it takes cops with military humvees to crack heads on looters and rioters, so-be-it. Worried you’ll be targeted? See #1. Work harder. Go to night school. 

(Just to represent a variety of opinions that are out there.)

Also, I haven’t had this conversation explicitly, but know my friend well enough that he would bristle at need for police reform. He’d probably say it comes down to how you raise your kids (in fairness, his are great,) and that if they dared talk back to a cop they’d deserve what’s coming.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to imagine how this message would go over if, for example, it was delivered by a Democrat to coal miners in West Virginia.

 
  • Sad
Reactions: JAA
Sea Duck said:
I'm trying to imagine how this message would go over if, for example, it was delivered by a Democrat to coal miners in West Virginia.
Click to expand...
You can imagine. It would go over horribly with the masses.

And I'm pretty sure coal miners are allowed to vote. One vote per person. 

 
Mr. Ham said:
This is why I think Dems should have one agenda this next four years: election reform. The usual suspects will immediately claim “rig.” No. I’m suggesting the polar opposite. Ensure it’s as easy as possible to vote, the infrastructure is modernized, and there is as little corruption as possible in the system. Given shifting demographics, Republicans would need to shift to platforms and ideas again to survive. And in the interim, assuming power would be restored with less ridiculous Gerrymandering and disenfranchisement, Dems should work to eradicate the electoral college and secure some reason to how the will of the people (not the will of the land) is represented politically. Fixing elections would effectively end the smash and grab politics we’ve lived through these past years. 
Click to expand...
I would like to strip power from the Executive Branch,too.

 
Mr. Ham said:
I have serious problems with Giuliani, but I wish him a speedy and full recovery.
Click to expand...
Agreed.  

The surprising thing to me is that it took this long for him to catch it.  He’s been close to people that had it and has been traveling quite a bit. It seemed like he was not real careful with social distancing and wearing masks.

He is older and does not appear to be in the best of health so hopefully he will be okay.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dozer
****Official DOJ Investigation into Trump, Fake Electors, Fraud, Etc.****
5 6 7
Replies
348
Views
11K
Sabertooth
Sabertooth
L
McCarthy and McConnell Wanted ‘Son of a B*tch’ Trump Out of Politics After Jan. 6 Riot,
2 3
Replies
124
Views
3K
ignatiusjreilly
ignatiusjreilly
GordonGekko
Revisiting The Young Turks 2016 Election Meltdown Over Trump's Stunning Victory (7/7/2022 9:35 PST)
Replies
16
Views
465
GordonGekko
GordonGekko

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 16 (members: 0, guests: 16)
Top