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Turkey invades Syria: Update- ISIS rebuilds


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It’s not to distract. There are better ways to distract. It’s to please Erdogan or Putin for some reason related to Trump’s personal interests, as opposed to U.S. national interests.

I know it's against board policy to say that Trump is a moron or idiot or whatever.  But I honestly don't know how what other conclusion I'm supposed to draw.  Whether it's an innately low IQ (doubtfu

Wait 'till the guy on the left hears about the guy on the right.

47 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The SecDef then went on to say we are taking urgent steps to resolve the problem. What’s that Wallace asked? Pulling our remaining troops out of Syria. 

So our “tough guy” president is evacuating Syria like Saigon. 

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32 minutes ago, Ranethe said:

Yeah. The damage is done though, across so many domains. I’m ashamed of this country. 

The laughing stock of the world. Every country and every language the media of the world mocks his tweets and speeches. It’s worse than embarrassing. Shame is absolutely the right word. 

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Remember how Trump said he would destroy Turkey’s economy a few days ago? Nothing. No sanctions. Senators Graham and Murphy are working on a bipartisan bill for sanctions but McConnell won’t commit to even bringing it to a vote. And anyhow it’s too late. 

The UN Security Council attempted to condemn what Turkey is doing; both Russia and the USA vetoed it. 

This is what it must have felt like when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1936 and the world watched helplessly. 

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5 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

The laughing stock of the world. Every country and every language the media of the world mocks his tweets and speeches. It’s worse than embarrassing. Shame is absolutely the right word. 

Good ole MAGA in action. 

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1 minute ago, Daywalker said:

So we pulled out because we were afraid Turkey would attack us?  That is what the admin is going with?

Bet you feel great about US military spending right about now

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2 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

What in your experience makes you think Republicans will acknowledge that trump did something wrong here? 

Trump Supporters:  "We have always been at war with Eastasia"

 

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1 minute ago, Kal El said:

Trump is a coward and a Russian patsy. This is his doing and he needs to answer for it now.

Tell Mitch McConnell. The other side has been trying to prevent things like this for two and a half years. 

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

Tell Mitch McConnell. The other side has been trying to prevent things like this for two and a half years. 

He's a coward as well for refusing to do his job. Now we have gridlock far out the ###, a president who openly flouts the law, abandons our allies for foreign powers' whims, and refuses to listen to others. 

Is this what it's like to see your nation be reduced to a third world country?

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Just now, Kal El said:

He's a coward as well for refusing to do his job. Now we have gridlock far out the ###, a president who openly flouts the law, abandons our allies for foreign powers' whims, and refuses to listen to others. 

Is this what it's like to see your nation be reduced to a third world country?

Yes. 

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Kurds cut a deal with Russia and Assad for protection earlier today. Remains to be seen if this stops Turkey entirely but this isn't much better news for Kurds. Trump can say something about stopping Turkey, I guess, with the threat of economic sanctions while Kurds are now under the "protection" of Assad and Russa. Putin met with Erdogan a few weeks ago and I suspect this plan was cooked up then and there. Kurds can hope to retreat into Iraq, I guess,  but staying in Syria means fighting for Assad to quell ISIS. 

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14 minutes ago, Kal El said:

He's a coward as well for refusing to do his job. Now we have gridlock far out the ###, a president who openly flouts the law, abandons our allies for foreign powers' whims, and refuses to listen to others. 

Is this what it's like to see your nation be reduced to a third world country?

Hey, at least we don’t have a president that wears pantsuits and bleaches emails.

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1 minute ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

Hey, at least we don’t have a president that wears pantsuits and bleaches emails.

She has her own plethora of issues, and in ways is worse, but she wouldn't abandon the Kurds to die.

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1 hour ago, saintfool said:

Kurds cut a deal with Russia and Assad for protection earlier today. Remains to be seen if this stops Turkey entirely but this isn't much better news for Kurds. Trump can say something about stopping Turkey, I guess, with the threat of economic sanctions while Kurds are now under the "protection" of Assad and Russa. Putin met with Erdogan a few weeks ago and I suspect this plan was cooked up then and there. Kurds can hope to retreat into Iraq, I guess,  but staying in Syria means fighting for Assad to quell ISIS. 

Weird how that works out.  The Kurds are now aligned with Russia and Syria.  Erdogan, Assad, and Putin get significantly stronger, the US gets significantly weaker.  ISIS gets a thousand soldiers back, including dozens of leaders.  
 

Is this what winning so much we get sick of it feels like?

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17 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Weird how that works out.  The Kurds are now aligned with Russia and Syria.  Erdogan, Assad, and Putin get significantly stronger, the US gets significantly weaker.  ISIS gets a thousand soldiers back, including dozens of leaders.  
 

Is this what winning so much we get sick of it feels like?

i feel like ISIS is stuck now, frankly. Assad, Kurds, Russians, and Turks all around them. US is evacuating the 1000 troops in Syria now and moving them to either Iraq or KSA maybe. I'm just waiting for how Trump and his cronies spin this. Maybe it's "we're leaving the ME", "fighting Iran with our troops in KSA" but this will only be warmly greeted by the Fox and whackadoodle crowd. 

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4 hours ago, timschochet said:

The Secretary of Defense is telling the exact same lie on Fox. He insists that Turkey would have attacked anyhow right through our troops, right through our superior air power, and that if we hadn’t gotten out of the way we would be at war with Turkey. 

Incredible such crap. If I were Chris Wallace I would have asked, “will you release the phone call between President Trump and Erdogan in order to prove what you are claiming is correct???” 

"We had to evacuate or else Turkey would have attacked us"

Jesus, man.

This isn't Saigon.

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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

"We had to evacuate or else Turkey would have attacked us"

Jesus, man.

This isn't Saigon.

and also shouldn't that mean that Trump would now be putting in massive economic consequences and crippling the Turkish economy? 

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29 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

and also shouldn't that mean that Trump would now be putting in massive economic consequences and crippling the Turkish economy? 

I don’t know, it sounds like Turkey asked us not to according to his tweet. 

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1 hour ago, Stealthycat said:

what is "our responsibility" ??

I would think - at a minimum - do no harm.

We could have forced a status quo - simply by remaining in the area.

We were in a perfect position to mediate any disputes between Turkey and the Kurd - without a shot fired, or an American life risked.

If we told Turkey that the Kurds were under our protection, and an attack on the Kurds is an Attack on the US - Turkey does not act.

If we told the Kurds that we would protect them, but that any incursions against Turkey would nullify that protection, Turkey would have been assured against any threats from the Kurds.

 

Instead, we said - hey we are leaving, good luck everyone!  That was not acting in anyone's best interests (well, maybe Turkey and Russia).  And, we damaged our standing in the world as a reliable ally, once again.  Reputations are hard to earn, but easy to tear down.  It will take decades to rebuild the trust from the international community.

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9 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I would think - at a minimum - do no harm.

We could have forced a status quo - simply by remaining in the area.

We were in a perfect position to mediate any disputes between Turkey and the Kurd - without a shot fired, or an American life risked.

If we told Turkey that the Kurds were under our protection, and an attack on the Kurds is an Attack on the US - Turkey does not act.

If we told the Kurds that we would protect them, but that any incursions against Turkey would nullify that protection, Turkey would have been assured against any threats from the Kurds.

 

Instead, we said - hey we are leaving, good luck everyone!  That was not acting in anyone's best interests (well, maybe Turkey and Russia).  And, we damaged our standing in the world as a reliable ally, once again.  Reputations are hard to earn, but easy to tear down.  It will take decades to rebuild the trust from the international community.

 

 

is it our responsibility to do any of the above?

how many civil wars/conflicts are waging in the world today? why is the Turkey/Syria thing so high profile?

how many African nations are in a similar state? do we have a responsibility to go into every country in the world and force things?  

 

I don't know - it seems like if we try to police the world, we're seen as evil, if we pull out and let them be, we're seen as evil ............... nothing Trump did would have been given credit by Democrats, they're anti-xxx on everything all the time. :( 

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

 

 

is it our responsibility to do any of the above?

how many civil wars/conflicts are waging in the world today? why is the Turkey/Syria thing so high profile?

how many African nations are in a similar state? do we have a responsibility to go into every country in the world and force things?  

 

I don't know - it seems like if we try to police the world, we're seen as evil, if we pull out and let them be, we're seen as evil ............... nothing Trump did would have been given credit by Democrats, they're anti-xxx on everything all the time. :( 

Do you believe that we had and have an interest regarding ISIS?

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5 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

why is the Turkey/Syria thing so high profile?

Primarily because we were doing the most good with the fewest people there.  The excuse provided by this president was that he wanted us out of "endless wars" yet he chose to focus on the worst bang for our buck by that standard.  

And I am ignoring the complete and total coincidence that this is exactly what our traditional enemies want the US to do.

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Just now, Stealthycat said:

that JV terrorist group ?

only for a decade or more .... so this is all about ISIS ?  

The Kurds and the US fought against ISIS together.  With them doing most of the fighting for us.  Until a few days ago.  That's our interest.

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

The Kurds and the US fought against ISIS together.  With them doing most of the fighting for us.  Until a few days ago.  That's our interest.

https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/how-obamas-team-set-up-trumps-syrian-dilemma/

 

is that an accurate article ?

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3 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

It has accurate parts.  This in particular is a tremendously misleading characterization at best, and a major basis of the article's viewpoint:

Quote

The YPG is the Syrian wing of the PKK, the Kurdish separatist group in Turkey.

It's also important to note that Kurds in Iraq were (and are) a major part of the strategy there, as well.

 

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Why are you guys wasting your time? Doesn’t his “contributions” to the gun control discussion provide enough evidence why this will do no good? Even by answering his questions you give a certain level of credibility to his insipid ideas. 

Isolationism is a poisonous way to think. Full stop. It’s lazy, stupid, and the people who argue it from our President on Down are low information, and unable or unwilling to look at the consequences of their actions. Like bigotry, like racism, like Nazism and Communism, isolationism is an idea that doesn’t deserve to be argued against. It deserves to be kicked in the head. 

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17 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

is it our responsibility to do any of the above?

how many civil wars/conflicts are waging in the world today? why is the Turkey/Syria thing so high profile?

how many African nations are in a similar state? do we have a responsibility to go into every country in the world and force things?  

 

I don't know - it seems like if we try to police the world, we're seen as evil, if we pull out and let them be, we're seen as evil ............... nothing Trump did would have been given credit by Democrats, they're anti-xxx on everything all the time. :( 

yes - as world citizens, let alone supposed world leaders

 

I have no idea.  But, we were already in position to prevent the Turkey - Kurd conflict in Northern Syria.  We did not need more troops.  We did not need to fire a weapon.  We simply needed the threat of retaliation to avoid needless bloodshed, additional refugees, and the freeing of ISIS fighters and commanders.

 

We did not have to "go" anywhere - we were already there.

 

Trump fails on so many levels - but not the least of which are the ability to think about the consequences of his actions, and lacking the ability to communicate his long-term strategy to anyone, let alone the American public.

 

I think Trump would get credit - legitimate credit - if he had an Oval Office address where he sat down and explained to everyone his long-term vision for the region, how pulling US troops will play into that vision, and what are the next steps he will accomplish towards that long-term vision.  Of course, I don't think Trump has a long-term (or short-term) vision or idea of what is happening in the world.  I think he thrives on chaos, and enjoys the mess he has created.

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5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Why are you guys wasting your time? Doesn’t his “contributions” to the gun control discussion provide enough evidence why this will do no good? Even by answering his questions you give a certain level of credibility to his insipid ideas. 

Isolationism is a poisonous way to think. Full stop. It’s lazy, stupid, and the people who argue it from our President on Down are low information, and unable or unwilling to look at the consequences of their actions. Like bigotry, like racism, like Nazism and Communism, isolationism is an idea that doesn’t deserve to be argued against. It deserves to be kicked in the head. 

How about you decide who you'll talk to and I decide who I'll talk to.  Sound good?

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