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Saving the PSF - How can we, as a community, make this place better


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I'm a lurker, as evidenced by my comically low post count relative to the duration of my membership, but I just don't understand why so many of you make this so difficult.  I've had one person on igno

I think this subforum would function more smoothly if everybody put everybody else on ignore.

@Joe Bryant I slept on this and thought about how you are approaching this. A couple of thoughts. - You're taking ownership for other people's actions. I think that's being unfair to yourself. Yo

37 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

I was trying to explain why it is easier for the 87 percent to ignore snark.  It is easier because there are many people acknowledging their points and relatively very little snark.  The small minority on the other hand gets mostly snark and usually zero acknowledgement or support for their points.  That is not complaining Tim.  That is discussion of reality in this forum and why it is easy for those in the majority to say just ignore it.  You can't ignore it when those are the only replies you are getting.   If you really thought about the point objectively you would understand how that applies to any minority and maybe lead everyone to a better understanding of how to respect people in a minority situation.  

I think the operative issue here is that (like me sending cosjobs a snarky picture after he sent me a snarky question) both parties need to be sure that the other party respects them.  Then it’s good natured ribbing.  I think the missing factor is mutual respect. 

Which someone has to be willing to give and stay consistent on even when the other person is or seems to be disrespectful or it’s never going to change. 

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3 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Not at all.  But when you are in a majority, it is important to listen more closely to the minority viewpoint and at least acknowledge it and try to avoid the piling on which will only serve to unfairly squash that voice.  That could apply to women, blacks, Hispanics or whatever. 

This is an important viewpoint for everyone to remember, to be sure.

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4 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Not at all.  But when you are in a majority, it is important to listen more closely to the minority viewpoint and at least acknowledge it and try to avoid the piling on which will only serve to unfairly squash that voice.  That could apply to women, blacks, Hispanics or whatever. 

Do you really believe that a minority viewpoint in a political forum should be compared to racial and ethnic minorities in society at large? 

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5 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I think the operative issue here is that (like me sending cosjobs a snarky picture after he sent me a snarky question) both parties need to be sure that the other party respects them.  Then it’s good natured ribbing.  I think the missing factor is mutual respect. 

Which someone has to be willing to give and stay consistent on even when the other person is or seems to be disrespectful or it’s never going to change. 

What if I respect you, but you don't respect me? 

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3 minutes ago, timschochet said:
9 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Not at all.  But when you are in a majority, it is important to listen more closely to the minority viewpoint and at least acknowledge it and try to avoid the piling on which will only serve to unfairly squash that voice.  That could apply to women, blacks, Hispanics or whatever. 

Do you really believe that a minority viewpoint in a political forum should be compared to racial and ethnic minorities in society at large? 

In the way in which he means it, by listening before judging, I think it is a great idea!

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16 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Do you really believe that a minority viewpoint in a political forum should be compared to racial and ethnic minorities in society at large? 

It is all the same.  People are people.  All people want their points to be acknowledged.  

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12 minutes ago, GoBirds said:

Sorry, not sure that's an accurate representation either. 

This is a difficult part.  How do you point out when people violate MT's list?  If you report it, it will be quite excessive. If you ignore it, nothing changes.  

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35 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I think the operative issue here is that (like me sending cosjobs a snarky picture after he sent me a snarky question) both parties need to be sure that the other party respects them.  Then it’s good natured ribbing.  I think the missing factor is mutual respect. 

Which someone has to be willing to give and stay consistent on even when the other person is or seems to be disrespectful or it’s never going to change. 

finger

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40 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Not at all.  But when you are in a majority, it is important to listen more closely to the minority viewpoint and at least acknowledge it and try to avoid the piling on which will only serve to unfairly squash that voice.  That could apply to women, blacks, Hispanics or whatever. 

Okay, I get it it. Its like when Trump complained about lynching. 

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1 hour ago, jon_mx said:

This is a difficult part.  How do you point out when people violate MT's list?  If you report it, it will be quite excessive. If you ignore it, nothing changes.  

Sometimes it does.  If I ignore my dog when she’s freaking out she starts behaving. 

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I’m not reading 17 pages of this discussion so if my idea has already been introduced, consider this a seconding of a proposition. To preserve the PSF, limit posters to a set number of responses per day. I’d go with one per thread, but some other small number would do.

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I do have a suggestion and this is something that's been on my mind for a while.... the great place Trump 2020 thread - why don't the anti-Trump people just stay out of there? I've never opened it myself but I see the last poster on the home page and it is often people that I know are less than enthused about Trump winning in 2020. Why not just let his supporters have a thread? There are dozens of threads on this board to talk about what we find troubling about his presidency, so I think it's fair to have ONE thread where his supporters can talk without a debate. 

Just a thought. 

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3 minutes ago, TheMagus said:

I do have a suggestion and this is something that's been on my mind for a while.... the great place Trump 2020 thread - why don't the anti-Trump people just stay out of there? I've never opened it myself but I see the last poster on the home page and it is often people that I know are less than enthused about Trump winning in 2020. Why not just let his supporters have a thread? There are dozens of threads on this board to talk about what we find troubling about his presidency, so I think it's fair to have ONE thread where his supporters can talk without a debate. 

Just a thought. 

At the same time, should Trump supporters stay out of any of the Democratic candidate threads. None of them are going to vote for those candidates. So, why not just leave those supporters alone?

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8 hours ago, TheMagus said:

I do have a suggestion and this is something that's been on my mind for a while.... the great place Trump 2020 thread - why don't the anti-Trump people just stay out of there? I've never opened it myself but I see the last poster on the home page and it is often people that I know are less than enthused about Trump winning in 2020. Why not just let his supporters have a thread? There are dozens of threads on this board to talk about what we find troubling about his presidency, so I think it's fair to have ONE thread where his supporters can talk without a debate. 

Just a thought. 

Because many here feel Trump supporters are devoid of character and horrible people and must be stopped.

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14 hours ago, timschochet said:

I can see that part of it, but...the comparison still bothers me a little. 

Not sure why it would.  It is basically just being open minded. A little more of that here would go a long way.

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15 hours ago, Da Guru said:

Not sure why it would.  It is basically just being open minded. A little more of that here would go a long way.

It comes down to the fundamental difference between between how liberals and conservatives apply their value.  Liberals tend to explain why you should treat someone well or even special is because of all the abuses that group has taken over the years (ie. Social Justice), which BTW is usually at the hands of the white male.

Conservatives tend to view things through the eyes of equality and would explain why you should treat someone that way is because it is the right thing to do as their status as a human being.  

So when I reach the conclusion I did based on equality and make the comparison to that is similar to how a minority feels in a situation where their viewpoint is drowned out, ignored and even piled on by the majority, it offends Tim.  I am not part of an identified minority so I am not allowed to feel that way so don't you dare use such analogy.  

Look just above when @supermike80 talks about feeling basically subhuman.  Many white males hate liberalism because they are basically low man on the totem pole (ironic expression but I will roll with it).   This hatred of liberalism has little to do with racism, it has to do with being made to feel inferior.

Just recently I was called a 'woman' on this forum.   When @krista4said she was insulted by the reference, everyone chimed in how horrible the insult was.  Did one person feel bad I was insulted, after all the insult was directed at me?  No, not that I could tell.  I am suppose to have 'thicker skin' because I am a white male.  

 

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6 hours ago, jon_mx said:

It comes down to the fundamental difference between between how liberals and conservatives apply their value.  Liberals tend to explain why you should treat someone well or even special is because of all the abuses that group has taken over the years (ie. Social Justice), which BTW is usually at the hands of the white male.

Conservatives tend to view things through the eyes of equality and would explain why you should treat someone that way is because it is the right thing to do as their status as a human being.  

So when I reach the conclusion I did based on equality and make the comparison to that is similar to how a minority feels in a situation where their viewpoint is drowned out, ignored and even piled on by the majority, it offends Tim.  I am not part of an identified minority so I am not allowed to feel that way so don't you dare use such analogy.  

Look just above when @supermike80 talks about feeling basically subhuman.  Many white males hate liberalism because they are basically low man on the totem pole (ironic expression but I will roll with it).   This hatred of liberalism has little to do with racism, it has to do with being made to feel inferior.

Just recently I was called a 'woman' on this forum.   When @krista4said she was insulted by the reference, everyone chimed in how horrible the insult was.  Did one person feel bad I was insulted, after all the insult was directed at me?  No, not that I could tell.  I am suppose to have 'thicker skin' because I am a white male.  

 

I think you need a better example to make your point here.  In the instance you reference, several people had commented negatively on the post before I did; in fact my response was a direct response to KCitons.  And I never said I was personally insulted, because I wasn’t.  
 

ETA:  The leap you make in your final sentence is huge.  There’s no evidence that anyone thinks you should have “thicker skin” because you’re a white male.  If anything, I’d expect that people don’t stand up for you because your complaints about mistreatment are constant. I’m certain some of the complaints are valid, but I suspect there’s a “boy who cried wolf” aspect in some people’s minds.  I see, though, that you vowed in Maurile’s thread to do less of it.  I hope that will happen and that people will also be more thoughtful (and not insulting) in their responses to you. 

Edited by krista4
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I have little sympathy for white males feeling as though they're on the bottom of the totem pole. Because of centuries of privilege, we are indeed now asked to have "thicker skins." Most of us are handling it pretty well, reaching a new understanding of what it has been like to be a minority in this country but some appear to translate greater equality as oppression. That's pretty unfortunate and the older generations are probably not going to be able to deal with societal change but the next generations are handling it pretty well.

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

I have little sympathy for white males feeling as though they're on the bottom of the totem pole. Because of centuries of privilege, we are indeed now asked to have "thicker skins." Most of us are handling it pretty well, reaching a new understanding of what it has been like to be a minority in this country but some appear to translate greater equality as oppression. That's pretty unfortunate and the older generations are probably not going to be able to deal with societal change but the next generations are handling it pretty well.

On the whole I agree, but sadly there is a notably large group of young white men that are radicalized online around just this victimhood mentality. It is definitely seen as a wedge through which far right and white supremacist groups have been recruiting online in the last decade.

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1 minute ago, mcintyre1 said:

On the whole I agree, but sadly there is a notably large group of young white men that are radicalized online around just this victimhood mentality. It is definitely seen as a wedge through which far right and white supremacist groups have been recruiting online in the last decade.

Yeah, that's a pretty scary development. But by and large, the two newest generations of voters have far fewer "old white guy privilege sympathizers" than us older generations. The guys bemoaning their new status of something other than on top will be finding fewer and fewer sympathetic ears as the years pass by.

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4 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

Yeah, that's a pretty scary development. But by and large, the two newest generations of voters have far fewer "old white guy privilege sympathizers" than us older generations. The guys bemoaning their new status of something other than on top will be finding fewer and fewer sympathetic ears as the years pass by.

Yeah, definitely heading in the right direction for society. I think a mistake that a lot of left-leaning people like me made in the Obama years was expecting that a shift leftward was inevitable due to demographics. I think if demographics alone get to determine our politics that'd be true, but we've seen enough hands on the scales now that I'm a lot more wary of that notion than I was as a fresh eyed college student.

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I kind of skipped through the thread, so I am not sure if this has been covered or discussed. This is ultimately a fantasy football forum, yet often people appear and post 200 times in the politics forum in a weekend, while having no posts elsewhere on the forum. I feel like that is almost always either proselytization or trolling, and it lowers the discourse of the board. To me it seems obvious which accounts are these, and I am always surprised at the length of leash they are given before getting (or not getting) suspended. I realize that many people have retired from fantasy football and don't have much to discuss about it, and those people should be grandfathered in, but I don't see why new accounts that come in with a blaze of hyper-partisan posts shouldn't be given the boot to find a forum on a politics site, not a football site. 

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Something just struck me that I heard when I was younger.  I can't quote the source, or even the exact wording, but it went something like this:

Intelligent people discuss ideas

Average people discuss events

Idiots discuss other people (I am not calling anyone an idiot, specifically)

 

Decide which one you want to be viewed as and go from there.  I think it might apply to making this forum better.

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On 10/24/2019 at 4:06 PM, Maurile Tremblay said:

I think this subforum would function more smoothly if everybody put everybody else on ignore.

i tried putting myself on ignore but it did not work so i guess get rudnarski on it and then bam the ole swcer will ignore himself and all will be at peace take that to the bank bromigo

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8 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

I saw a recently banned poster on social media offering $10 for a new login. Thought I would pop-diddly-op-op in to see what all the hubbub was about.  Could be a new revenue stream for FBGs.  

I like these new rules. :thumbup:

I'd sell access to HeavyMatt for $5

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16 hours ago, SWC said:

i tried putting myself on ignore but it did not work so i guess get rudnarski on it and then bam the ole swcer will ignore himself and all will be at peace take that to the bank bromigo

More not less.

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21 hours ago, Caesar said:

Something just struck me that I heard when I was younger.  I can't quote the source, or even the exact wording, but it went something like this:

Intelligent people discuss ideas

Average people discuss events

Idiots discuss other people (I am not calling anyone an idiot, specifically)

 

Decide which one you want to be viewed as and go from there.  I think it might apply to making this forum better.

I think there's lots of truth there. 

That's a lot of where my "keep it about the topic and not other posters" requests come from. 

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23 hours ago, Caesar said:

Something just struck me that I heard when I was younger.  I can't quote the source, or even the exact wording, but it went something like this:

Intelligent people discuss ideas

Average people discuss events

Idiots discuss other people (I am not calling anyone an idiot, specifically)

 

Decide which one you want to be viewed as and go from there.  I think it might apply to making this forum better.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

Edited by identikit
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This piece is written largely about Twitter as the set and setting for "The Discourse" but I think it can also be applied here. Lots of truths to be found in this article and it certainly makes me think more deeply about how I engage others in the online political sphere, particularly the PSF:

https://newrepublic.com/article/155266/online-discourse-age-trump

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1 hour ago, Workhorse said:

This piece is written largely about Twitter as the set and setting for "The Discourse" but I think it can also be applied here. Lots of truths to be found in this article and it certainly makes me think more deeply about how I engage others in the online political sphere, particularly the PSF:

https://newrepublic.com/article/155266/online-discourse-age-trump

Thanks. That looks interesting and I'll try to get to that soon. Thanks for sharing. 

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3 hours ago, identikit said:

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

Thank you for this.  I knew I was way off on the specifics, but the idea of it has always stuck with me.

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3 hours ago, identikit said:

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

and the ole swcer discussed four barrel carbeurators bam another riddle solved by the ole swcer take that to the bank bromigos 

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On 10/30/2019 at 9:30 AM, Caesar said:

Something just struck me that I heard when I was younger.  I can't quote the source, or even the exact wording, but it went something like this:

Intelligent people discuss ideas

Average people discuss events

Idiots discuss other people (I am not calling anyone an idiot, specifically)

 

Decide which one you want to be viewed as and go from there.  I think it might apply to making this forum better.

What do the Russians infiltrating Joe's Politics Forum discuss?

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3 hours ago, lazyike said:

Apparently with Trump announcing his move to Florida the subject came up ( by Al Sharpden) where the Trump libraries might be located.  I have a suggestion...how about Moscow? We know he does very little reading so how about filling it with Trump rally videos, WWE videos, beauty pagents, a book full of his 100,000 mean bullying tweets, another book of his 20,000 lies ( assuming he is not reelected 50,000 if he is)and some soft porn.


These types of drive by posts in the Trump  thread serve no purpose. They are off subject and have historically just caused a bunch of snarky back and forth.  

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8 minutes ago, knowledge dropper said:


These types of drive by posts in the Trump  thread serve no purpose. They are off subject and have historically just caused a bunch of snarky back and forth.  

Totally agree, was surprised to see other suspensions handed out but swipes like this in the Trump thread didn’t get the same. 

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