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Myles Garrett needs to be permanently suspended


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1 hour ago, Pigskin Fanatic said:

As inexcusable as the Garrett actions were, it doesn't sit well with me that Rudolph got only a fine and not any suspension. It seems he tried to take out his frustration of his own suckage out on Garrett in the moment. What an idiot. He started the fire and now many will burn for it.

I'd be surprised if there are actual charges, but gotta admit when i saw it live that was the first thing I thought, that this has to be beyond NFL punishment. I'm actually surprised at how many of you are dismissing that notion altogether, but man, there are so many examples you guys are posting where the league or anyone else who could/should have chose to not take action in these situations. kind of disappointing.

Read a report that Rudolph feels it is exclusively an NFL matter and he won’t take legal action. 

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As far as I know this was pretty out of character for Myles Garrett.

It was in the heat of the moment and Mason Rudolph instigated it and was being a jackass as well.

I think Garrett deserves a big long suspension and fine but if this is out of character for him he should definitely get a warning and a second chance 

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9 minutes ago, monk said:

As far as I know this was pretty out of character for Myles Garrett.

It was in the heat of the moment and Mason Rudolph instigated it and was being a jackass as well.

I think Garrett deserves a big long suspension and fine but if this is out of character for him he should definitely get a warning and a second chance 

I disagree. I think this is perfectly in character for him. He's amassed around fifty grand in fines this year. He punched Delanie Walker in the head and he ended Trevor Siemian's season (such as it was). That's a pretty dubious best-of list considering we're only in November.

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1 minute ago, IheartGuinness said:

I disagree. I think this is perfectly in character for him. He's amassed around fifty grand in fines this year. He punched Delanie Walker in the head and he ended Trevor Siemian's season (such as it was). That's a pretty dubious best-of list considering we're only in November.

Totally dirty player this year. Think he leads the league in personal fouls or something like that.  

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21 minutes ago, Gachi said:

What Pouncy did was just as bad a Garrett IMO. 

if mason actually removes the helmet and pouncey does what he did then yeah sure I see that. But can you honestly say that getting punched or kicked with a helmet on is really the same as getting clocked by your own helmet?

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6 minutes ago, Max55 said:

No way.

Garrett rips off a helmet and hits a guy in the skull with it.

Pouncey sticks up for his QB and granted should not have kicked but not even close IMO. 

Pouncey isn’t getting fair treatment by the media.  Every article says that he “repeatedly” kick Garrett.  The video clearly only show 1 kick.  3 games is a fair for what Pouncey did.  Garrett has to be 10 games minimum I would think, maybe more.  Needs to be long enough where this never happens again.  I think the NFL now needs to make it a rule if any player takes off another players helmet, 6 game immediate suspension.  If they then use the helmet in a violent manner, 16 games automatic suspension.

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Have not had a chance to get to this thread until now. Reading this I am stunned by some of the comments I assume can only be fishing or pot-stirring. Like this one:

1 hour ago, Gachi said:

What Pouncy did was just as bad a Garrett IMO. 

Um, no.

Or this one.

7 hours ago, agame2323 said:

The saddest part is that Myles Garrett, a lst round (1st overall pick) Pro Bowler and 2nd team all defense, messed up his money and career on a borderline 2nd string QB that probably won't be in the league 2-3 seasons from now.

I would actually have given him credit if it was like... Brady or Rodgers. LoL. But MASON GOTDAMN RUDOLPH?!?!?!? He should have threw his helmet into the first round and trashed him during the interview process. I would've said... "Mason who? Dude is a f**king place kicker foh" 😄😄 

Real sad indeed.  

As to people who watched and didn't see anything too bad, such as these:

14 hours ago, shadyridr said:

Im the 3rd person in this thread who didn't see it happen live and saw the video this morning and didn't think it was "perma-ban" worthy. Perhaps its a heat of the moment thing? That being said, hitting a guy with a helmet deserves a rest of season suspension. Also, nobody seems to be talking about that player who injured Diontae Johnson. That was a disgusting hit. What a dirty team.

12 hours ago, belljr said:

After watching it again this morning from a different angle - I will say it was a little worse than I thought...

Still wouldn't press charges

There were tons of initial angles, and probably to the above, many that came out later that served to show how brutal that was and how worse it could have been. Here was the one that most caught my eye:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/dwlslu/sam_monson_another_angle_of_the_helmet_swing/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

13 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Caved in his skull???  Wow there is an incredibly overblown idea of how dangerous a helmet is.  It's not a battle axe.  It's not a sledgehammer.  Geeze.  Caved in his skull???  He actually DID hit him, and Rudolph is unharmed.

Had the helmet been rotated slightly a different way such that a hard part or an edge landed that way, it likely would have resulted in a much different outcome in terms of injury.

To me, that is assault.

That Rudolph is unharmed was lucky. But yes I think a windmill windup that landed right could have absolutely caused some permanent damage.

12 hours ago, amnesiac said:

quick google search in case anyone was wondering:

NFL helmet:  6 pounds

Bowling ball (adult male): 14-16 pounds  

Yeah, a bowling ball comp seemed a little hyerpbolic.

Let's say it was a brick. Does anyone think you couldn't seriously injure someone by windmilling them on the crown of an unprotected head with a brick? Not possible to cause serious lasting damage that way? While likely a much slimmer probability, is there a zero chance probability that with one shot you could potentially kill someone by hitting them in the head with a brick using a full-force swing?

"Why in heaven's name, STC, are you talking about a brick?" you might be asking. Go look up relative weights of a standard red brick and an NFL football helmet.

6 hours ago, mbuehner said:

Point of order- does anybody have a single example of a prosecution of an assault that happens in a professional sporting event where the blow never actually connected? Yes, hockey players have been prosecuted for tomahawking a guy with their stick. Have they ever been prosecuted for swinging their stick and missing? Or even connecting but not injuring the victim? Has a pitcher ever been charged for throwing at a batters head but missing? Or hitting him in the back?

I think its important to step back and understand that the absolute letter of the law has never been applied in professional sports and never will be. Law enforcement doesnt want to be called on to adjudicate this stuff, and the Leagues certainly dont want that either.

Just for clarity, are you looking to compare it to this incident where the blow actually connected? I don't think the connection here is in doubt, and I think Rudolph not being injured is besides the point. I mean, assault is still assault regardless of the degree of the resulting injury.

FWIW there is an incident where a player ripped another player's helmet off and threw it at a player and hit him -- not in the back -- but more in the upper body. It's the action that gave birth to the very rule that outlaws the behavior in the NFL. Rule 12 Section 2 Player Conduct.  

Finally, I do not condone Burfict's long history of dirty, intentional hits that also recklessly endanger player safety. Enough was enough. But given the comparative brutality of what Garrett did, there is no way he should get off for less than 12 games.

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1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html

 

When in doubt, just make #### up. 

There's no Personal Fouls there. What exactly did you try to prove and then come back with snark about?  

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hey Stompin Tom, if you have the time or inclination, i’d encourage you to quote my entire post and maybe go read some of the rest of my posts on the topic.  
 

i’ve not once defended Garrett’s actions and it feels kind of weird getting called out here. 
 

have a good night. 

Edited by amnesiac
also if anyone knows how to tag users please do so, because i do not.
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6 minutes ago, Hooper31 said:

Brick? Seems a good time to educate folks on surface area to volume ratios. Maybe six pounds of feathers could kill? 

interesting point, but still not a good idea to accelerate anything into someone else’s unprotected head during a football game. 

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23 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

hey Stompin Tom, if you have the time or inclination, i’d encourage you to quote my entire post and maybe go read some of the rest of my posts on the topic.  
 

i’ve not once defended Garrett’s actions and it feels kind of weird getting called out here. 
 

have a good night. 

I actually did -- to be clear, intent wasn't to counter or call you out for anything you said. Your post just had the data to bolster the point I was making that Rudolph coming away from the incident unscathed doesn't change the fact that he could have been very badly hurt.

Was just reframing the comparison object to something with similar mass and the same conceptual potential to do some real damage. 

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13 minutes ago, Hooper31 said:

Brick? Seems a good time to educate folks on surface area to volume ratios. Maybe six pounds of feathers could kill? 

What is the point you are trying to make? That you think, accounting for air displacement, density, and whatever else you want to throw in there, that the impact of hitting someone with a 6 pound helmet is closer to hitting them with a bag of feathers than it is a brick?

Holy tangent, Batman.

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3 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I actually did -- to be clear, intent wasn't to counter or call you out for anything you said. Your post just had the data to bolster the point I was making that Rudolph coming away from the incident unscathed doesn't change the fact that he could have been very badly hurt.

Was just reframing the comparison object to something with similar mass and the same conceptual potential to do some real damage. 

fair enough, but when your post begins with “ Reading this I am stunned by some of the comments I assume can only be fishing or pot-stirring.”

you can understand my concern. (as much as anyone can care about a message board on the interwebs)

 

regardless, my angle is that the whole thing was avoidable, all involved were stupid, and Garrett clearly went way over the line. 
 

my hope is that everyone can learn something from this, and eventually Garrett can recover from this.

i’m grateful that as of this moment Rudolph does not seem to have been injured from what happened (as far as i know) and i hope that the game in two weeks can be played without further significant incident. 
 

although i fully expect some sort of retaliation that is not without some merit. 

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4 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

What is the point you are trying to make? That you think, accounting for air displacement, density, and whatever else you want to throw in there, that the impact of hitting someone with a 6 pound helmet is closer to hitting them with a bag of feathers than it is a brick?

Holy tangent, Batman.

my guess is that the point is that the truth is somewhere between a brick and a bag of pillows, both having the same mass. 

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2 minutes ago, amnesiac said:

fair enough, but when your post begins with “ Reading this I am stunned by some of the comments I assume can only be fishing or pot-stirring.”

you can understand my concern. (as much as anyone can care about a message board on the interwebs)

Yep, apologies if that was misconstrued -- I specifically singled out two posts to illustrate that fishing, yours was not one of them, but I do get the concern.

And I totally agree that the game week after next is going to be a very interesting one indeed. I imagine after an incident like that players will be on their best behavior because of the scrutiny. But you never know, 17 days is not a lot of time to let bad blood cool. 

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1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

Brick? Seems a good time to educate folks on surface area to volume ratios. Maybe six pounds of feathers could kill? 

Hey Shick! 
 

serious question:

assign point values 1-10 of damage done by the following. 
 

6lb brick (assume as a 10) 

6lb NFL helmet: metal facemask as grip and primary contact point with the skull: (insert your value here) 

6lb pillowcase full of feathers: (assume as a 1) 

 

We know your teach math so this is a chance to use your numbers. 

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Garrett bullied Rudolph well beyond some end of game gloating with a good throw to the ground and a hold down, Rudolph objected pretty strongly and his teammates came to his aid.  In the ensuing melee Garrett who was outnumbered was able to get Rudolph’s helmet off and then when he saw him take a pretty good intentional swipe at Rudolph’s unprotected head well away from the 2 helmeted Steelers.

Garret has history and gets the max.  No regard for human safety.

Pouncey has history and his uncontrolled response gets serious penalties.  

Rudolph gets little or nothing.  His retaliation was minor and ineffectual.

Decastro gets man of the year for actually not acting like a ##### amongst all the crap going on.

The other Cleveland guy who shoved mason down gets a big fine for just being the dumbest guy in the room and randomly pushing down the nearest steeler.

And FYI these rules are in place so we don’t have to see Dionte Johnson bleed from the ear.  That play may actually have far worse consequences.

 

 

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On 11/15/2019 at 12:32 AM, flapgreen said:

Yeah, showed his true colors by going to battle for his qb. You don't see anything when that type of thing happens to your guy. Just red. You try and hurt my guy in a major way. You're getting a beat down. 

Next time the play comes on, focus on DeCastro.  He's the Steelers offensive lineman that really protected his QB.  Pouncey is the one that used it as an excuse to do what he wanted to do.  Which he's done numerous other times.

Edited by trader jake
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8 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

What is the point you are trying to make? That you think, accounting for air displacement, density, and whatever else you want to throw in there, that the impact of hitting someone with a 6 pound helmet is closer to hitting them with a bag of feathers than it is a brick?

Holy tangent, Batman.

Of course not, but it's not a brick. That's a false equivalency created out of an emotional response. It's a form of hyperbole that distracts from a logical discussion.  

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1 minute ago, Hooper31 said:

Of course not, but it's not a brick. That's a false equivalency created out of an emotional response. It's a form of hyperbole that distracts from a logical discussion.  

It's de facto equivalency when the relevant comparatory metric is the potential done to the human skull and brain upon impact, i.e. it is most definitely a brick.

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7 hours ago, [icon] said:

Hey Shick! 
 

serious question:

assign point values 1-10 of damage done by the following. 
 

6lb brick (assume as a 10) 

6lb NFL helmet: metal facemask as grip and primary contact point with the skull: (insert your value here) 

6lb pillowcase full of feathers: (assume as a 1) 

 

We know your teach math so this is a chance to use your numbers. 

Don't think I would be comfortable assigning a value there. My perception is that the helmet is somewhere in the middle, but the point remains that an NFL helmet is certainly not a brick. The helmets (also, I'm guessing that there are no metal facemasks) are designed to absorb a blow. I don't know the physics of this or what materials are being used, but from I understand there has been some heavy science invested into this area. 

I'm not really into debating the crime and punishment aspect of all this, but I do find it interesting. I don't have answers, but I'm okay with saying that he shouldn't be kicked out of the league permanently. I'm 100% turned off by the emotional hyperbole and over-reaction (my opinion) that somehow this man is now the face of evil in our society. The players have to play with emotion. Intense emotion. Asking them to turn that off in a heartbeat has always seemed absurd to me. I think these sorts of incidents are going to happen. Granted, this one is in the extreme. I strongly believe that good men can do bad things in the right scenarios (see the work of Philip Zimbardo). I would never argue that they should be permitted. Of course there are going to be consequences, but I find it sort of silly when fan reaction goes off the deep end. 

You pointed out that I'm a math teacher. I've had some big shifts in my world view over the past decade due to teaching an AP Stats class. I see the normal bell curve all over the place now. Fan reaction to an incident like this is a good example. There are going to be lopsided reactions in both directions with a majority falling somewhere in the middle. Reactions to Garrett's behavior is no different. Someone is going to argue that he should face criminal charges and be banned from the NFL for good. Someone is going to argue that he did nothing worse than others in the incident. I think the majority (I include myself there) think the truth of it all lies somewhere in the middle and the league is doing the right thing. 

I tend to lean towards using some perspective, but I'm not innocent from replying to someone else with a bit of snark as I did earlier in this thread. Any argument aimed at making Garrett out to be a bad person is going to set off alarms in my head, especially from a group of fans that have close to no chance of knowing what sort of person he really is. He did something wrong. He will play a steep price. Not only in salary, but also in reputation. Perhaps its the teacher in me. I don't see people as good or bad. I see them as people that sometimes #### up. Some #### up more often than others. We learn. We grow. I won't be surprised to see Garrett come out the other side of this years from now a better man. We'll see. 

Edited by Hooper31
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8 hours ago, [icon] said:

serious question:

assign point values 1-10 of damage done by the following.

6lb brick (assume as a 10) 

6lb NFL helmet: metal facemask as grip and primary contact point with the skull: (insert your value here) 

6lb pillowcase full of feathers: (assume as a 1)

A helmet?  8.2 on the Brickter scale.  Of course, this scale is logarithmic, not linear.

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15 hours ago, IheartGuinness said:

I disagree. I think this is perfectly in character for him. He's amassed around fifty grand in fines this year. He punched Delanie Walker in the head and he ended Trevor Siemian's season (such as it was). That's a pretty dubious best-of list considering we're only in November.

I just looked at the "punch" on Delanie Walker.  Walker shoved him and Garrett retaliated by shoving him in the face and being the 2nd guy he got flagged.  You see this in just about every NFL game of the season.  - This was a non incident 

The hit on Siemian was late ... something that you also see in just about every NFL game. The problem was that his ankle got caught awkwardly underneath him and unfortunately broke or dislocated. Had that not happened  this would also be a non issue.

These weren't  Vonte Burfict plays ... the recent one is something I would expect from Burfict not Garrett

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