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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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36 minutes ago, shader said:

If we have comprehensive and quick testing, it's not so difficult.  When someone tests positive we quickly quarantine them, determine everyone they've come into contact with, test them all.  It requires quick testing and also requires teams of people that can do contact tracing.

To be fair, the initial question posed some scenarios that don't seem to fit what you are describing. For example, how do you trace for one who went to sporting events, was at an airport, etc. I think the reality of it is we're probably looking at moderate social distancing (including sports at all levels, concerts, events, maybe air travel) until this thing passes, right? Possibly restaurants, church, etc. give better numbers for tracing.

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41 minutes ago, Hodor said:

We have our baby due on May 15th, so I also hope things are open by then including hospital beds 😨

Seems kind of crazy to think about this, but might be worth looking into what would be involved in a home delivery with a midwife, just in case the hospitals near you completely go to !@#$ at that time.

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1 hour ago, parasaurolophus said:

I have a completely comped stay at the wynn in vegas May 13-16, that luckily I dont have to cancel until the day before. 

Hope it is open. 

Not a chance, just my opinion but things right now feel like things will keep being pushed off. 

We already have a National April 30th date for most things staying closed, lots of folks feel it will go beyond that and I happen to be one of them now whether I agree or not I can see this is going to be 2-3 months and perhaps some folks will want to rush back to work and I think many others will not. Maybe under 40-45, test negative for the CV-19, maybe they can start back to work. 

I don't see places like Vegas opening up before June/July in any way that people will want to visit. I don't expect people to automatically put themselves in potential harm's way just because the government says it's "safe". I think a lot of companies will have a tough time getting people to feel safe to go back to work. 

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10 minutes ago, shader said:

people

 

5 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

People who need work and want a paycheck.  I mean you could pay them $100/hour and the costs are still almost unmeasurably small relative to the cost of doing what we did in February and keeping the economy shut down for months at a time.

I don't see any people wanting work.  Why would you want to chase around sick people when you can collect $800 to $1000 payroll tax free staying safe at home?  You'd have to sub something like this out to a company because our gov't couldn't handle hiring that many people in the timeframe needed.

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29 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Arizona Governor issued a shelter in place yesterday.  We have good supply of food and I am working from home but I need to find out the details.  I am sure I will need to make a grocery store run in a week.

Every shelter in place in the country allows for grocery runs. Don't sweat it

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1 minute ago, zoobird said:

Seems kind of crazy to think about this, but might be worth looking into what would be involved in a home delivery with a midwife, just in case the hospitals near you completely go to !@#$ at that time.

Yeah me and the Wife have discussed and we are mentally preparing that it could happen and will be monitoring our county closely this month. But she wants them drugsssss

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

 

I don't see any people wanting work.  Why would you want to chase around sick people when you can collect $800 to $1000 payroll tax free staying safe at home?  You'd have to sub something like this out to a company because our gov't couldn't handle hiring that many people in the timeframe needed.

sounds like a great job for the National Guard.

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Just now, BassNBrew said:

 

I don't see any people wanting work.  Why would you want to chase around sick people when you can collect $800 to $1000 payroll tax free staying safe at home?  You'd have to sub something like this out to a company because our gov't couldn't handle hiring that many people in the timeframe needed.

First of all, the bolded is totally false.  Second, it would be very easy to do and there would be plenty of people to volunteer.  If they can bail out billionaires with a 2 trillion dollar tax bill, surely they can afford to pay some contact tracers a great wage.  

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4 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Not a chance, just my opinion but things right now feel like things will keep being pushed off. 

We already have a National April 30th date for most things staying closed, lots of folks feel it will go beyond that and I happen to be one of them now whether I agree or not I can see this is going to be 2-3 months and perhaps some folks will want to rush back to work and I think many others will not. Maybe under 40-45, test negative for the CV-19, maybe they can start back to work. 

I don't see places like Vegas opening up before June/July in any way that people will want to visit. I don't expect people to automatically put themselves in potential harm's way just because the government says it's "safe". I think a lot of companies will have a tough time getting people to feel safe to go back to work. 

June date is quietly going around as the soonest to slowly open some places.

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13 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

People who need work and want a paycheck.  I mean you could pay them $100/hour and the costs are still almost unmeasurably small relative to the cost of doing what we did in February and keeping the economy shut down for months at a time.

I'm strongly in favor of test-and-trace, but I do worry that we missed our chance on that.  Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part, but it seems like our caseload is going to be too high to feasibly allow for contact tracing.  At some point the logistics of that have to be overwhelming, right?

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Just now, Grace Under Pressure said:

Not sure I understand the "we can't/aren't able to do the right measures to stop this after the initial surge" point of view when the alternative is continuing to shut down life.

I think the alternative scenario being put forth is not shutting down life, but starting back up and accepting the consequences.  Still a lot of people that seem to want to do that.

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1 minute ago, shader said:

 

4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

 

I don't see any people wanting work.  Why would you want to chase around sick people when you can collect $800 to $1000 payroll tax free staying safe at home?  You'd have to sub something like this out to a company because our gov't couldn't handle hiring that many people in the timeframe needed.

First of all, the bolded is totally false.  Second, it would be very easy to do and there would be plenty of people to volunteer.  If they can bail out billionaires with a 2 trillion dollar tax bill, surely they can afford to pay some contact tracers a great wage.

 

Maybe make it a condition of unemployment???  Maybe you're right and it is feasible and I'm just jaded about what the federal government could pull off successfully.

Regarding your first statement, many people are disappointed they aren't furloughed and are making less than their peers who were furloughed.

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Just now, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm strongly in favor of test-and-trace, but I do worry that we missed our chance on that.  Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part, but it seems like our caseload is going to be too high to feasibly allow for contact tracing.  At some point the logistics of that have to be overwhelming, right?

Right now it's definitely too late.  I think the scenario is that we beat this thing and then it starts popping up again.  In that scenario, that's where a comprehensive test-and-trace program should work to stop future outbreaks.

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We know contact tracing was a critical, fundamental technique to stop a pandemic.  We have known this for years, certainly since the start of this.   Tracing was implemented in China and South Korea in January and February.  It's incredibly frustruating that here we are, almost April, debating if we can or cannot do it.

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1 hour ago, Blue Dot Orange Dot said:

The big one for us is that we’re supposed to move to FL in early June. No idea if that will still happen or if it’ll need to get pushed out. 

Same boat, we were about to put our house on the market and move to Tampa. Plan was to be in a new house May. We have put that on hold for a few months as not even sure how to make that happen logistically (sell house, find/buy new house, move stuff, get acclimated to new surroundings, etc) and quite frankly don’t want to go to a state that will likely have an overloaded health system given the demographics of Florida and potentially compound the issue...also being in Minnesota right now close to family and friends as well as our health care providers, etc seems to be the right move. 

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9 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Yeah me and the Wife have discussed and we are mentally preparing that it could happen and will be monitoring our county closely this month. But she wants them drugsssss

They’re doing a good job keeping it out of L&D areas of hospitals. Home deliveries add extra risk and if #### went downhill the ambulance is taking you in through the emergency room where you DONT want to be for a second.

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6 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

Not a chance, just my opinion but things right now feel like things will keep being pushed off. 

We already have a National April 30th date for most things staying closed, lots of folks feel it will go beyond that and I happen to be one of them now whether I agree or not I can see this is going to be 2-3 months and perhaps some folks will want to rush back to work and I think many others will not. Maybe under 40-45, test negative for the CV-19, maybe they can start back to work. 

I don't see places like Vegas opening up before June/July in any way that people will want to visit. I don't expect people to automatically put themselves in potential harm's way just because the government says it's "safe". I think a lot of companies will have a tough time getting people to feel safe to go back to work. 

The national guidelines dont close businesses. The states have done that. And some hotels are still open all across the country currently, iirc. The Wynn started taking reservations yesterday for the day after the 30 day closure which is April 17th. They could easily cancel them all again, but who knows.

 

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4 minutes ago, moleculo said:

We know contact tracing was a critical, fundamental technique to stop a pandemic.  We have known this for years, certainly since the start of this.   Tracing was implemented in China and South Korea in January and February.  It's incredibly frustruating that here we are, almost April, debating if we can or cannot do it.

One fundamental difference here. It is called HIPAA. 

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3 minutes ago, moleculo said:

We know contact tracing was a critical, fundamental technique to stop a pandemic.  We have known this for years, certainly since the start of this.   Tracing was implemented in China and South Korea in January and February.  It's incredibly frustruating that here we are, almost April, debating if we can or cannot do it.

You're talking like the Super Bowl Ravens could play like this year's Cheifs.

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2 minutes ago, moleculo said:

We know contact tracing was a critical, fundamental technique to stop a pandemic.  We have known this for years, certainly since the start of this.   Tracing was implemented in China and South Korea in January and February.  It's incredibly frustruating that here we are, almost April, debating if we can or cannot do it.

It's literally so easy.  I guarantee that if you gave me ten billion dollars I could build a team of the best contact tracers this country has ever seen. (as could most of you) Not tooting my own horn here, because I certainly don't have the necessary skillset to train people in how to adequately do this.  But with enough money, I could certainly hire 10 experts, and 10,000 smart and eager workers ready to respond to any future outbreak.

Now obviously if I could do it, someone with far more experience and leadership than I possess could easily build out an elite team.  This shouldn't be difficult.  

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1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

One fundamental difference here. It is called HIPAA. 

Does HIPAA limit you to generalities though? Like if a patient tests positive, can the government post things like:

- Patient was in Wal Mart on 95th street on March 20th

- Patient stopped at Gas Station on 90th street on same day

- Patient lives in Scott County

 

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8 minutes ago, moleculo said:

We know contact tracing was a critical, fundamental technique to stop a pandemic.  We have known this for years, certainly since the start of this.   Tracing was implemented in China and South Korea in January and February.  It's incredibly frustruating that here we are, almost April, debating if we can or cannot do it.

Doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to figure this out utilizing technology https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600

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Amazon Fresh / Whole Foods deliveries has been a great option for us to avoid going to the grocery store. Availability of produce and meat can vary so ymmv but the biggest hurdle that I am sure most have encountered is lack of delivery times.

The best way to overcome the lack of delivery times is to refresh your order at Midnight. You'll notice that there are only 2 days available for deliveries, today and tomorrow. Every night at midnight (or 12:01 AM) the website will release the next days delivery times. If you're quick, you should be able to lock up a delivery time for the newly released day. 

We set up our cart early in he day, Amazon will remove unavailable items from your cart, we make substitutions at 11:30 PM then refresh at midnight. This has worked a few times for us, hopefully this helpful for others. Not sure if an Amazon Prime membership is needed but I believe it is. GL!

Edited by Waingro
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I apologize, @JaxBill had the link and I am now reading more of these...South Florida is Stay-At-Home thru Mid May!!!

Miami to Hard Rock in Ft laud to Palm Beach and Monroe County for Key West...just WOW!!!

To simply share how different the messages are here in Florida and South Florida, I'm trying to make sure I have this correct...actually I am a bit befuddled. Locals say one thing, State Leaders issue another, the President said April 30th, today it's Middle of May...

So many mixed messages down here, I saw it first hand at the hospital Sunday Night, it's going to get much crazier here I think. 

I wonder if the Stay at Home order in South Florida will apply to boaters with their own slips or docks on their waterfront homes? I'm not jealous mind you but I just wonder if they will now be ticketed by the Marine Patrol. 

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Just now, beer 30 said:

Doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to figure this out utilizing technology https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1243281598037913600

Technology is certainly possible. I read somewhere this morning that the UK is working on an app that alerts you when you're coming within a certain distance of someone that has the coronavirus.  IF everyone downloaded the app, that would be an interesting way of solving the problem.

Of course, it would require elite testing for this to work.

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1 minute ago, moleculo said:

 

5 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

You're talking like the Super Bowl Ravens could play like this year's Cheifs.

your analagy lost me there.

 

Two different types of systems.  It's easy for China to round up 10000 people to trace and yank suspected infected people out of their home, stuff them in dog crates, and haul them off to camp.  

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Just now, mr roboto said:

We can’t have businesses shuttered for 60 days. I know we need to but holy ####. It’s going to decimate companies. 

It's tough.  I think the bailout, the increased unemployment and the stock market rise over the last week has taken the sting out of the financial concerns.  But when this starts back up, there are definitely going to be a lot of problems getting this thing going again.  

You have a business right?  How difficult will it be for you?

I was thinking about a local pizza place that we love.  We know they've probably had to get rid of all their food, all their employees are likely furloughed, they are making no money, they still have to pay rent, how long can they survive in that hybrid spot?  And when they do re-open, are their workers going to come back?  Will they have the money to re-stock food?  

 

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20 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Yeah me and the Wife have discussed and we are mentally preparing that it could happen and will be monitoring our county closely this month. But she wants them drugsssss

What is your hospital set up like? The one I use has a completely separate women’s pavilion for birth. They are still allowing spouses to come in with laboring mother and one visitor afterwards, but that could be more restricted later. 

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7 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The national guidelines dont close businesses. The states have done that. And some hotels are still open all across the country currently, iirc. The Wynn started taking reservations yesterday for the day after the 30 day closure which is April 17th. They could easily cancel them all again, but who knows.

 

I didn't take it as a guideline but as it's stay at home through April 30. :shrug:

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

Technology is certainly possible. I read somewhere this morning that the UK is working on an app that alerts you when you're coming within a certain distance of someone that has the coronavirus.  IF everyone downloaded the app, that would be an interesting way of solving the problem.

Of course, it would require elite testing for this to work.

That's pretty cool.

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5 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

I wish we funded stuff like bridges, roads, education, and this, rather than building billion dollar fighter jets and aircraft carriers. 

 

you got it:

 

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

With interest rates for the United States being at ZERO, this is the time to do our decades long awaited Infrastructure Bill. It should be VERY BIG & BOLD, Two Trillion Dollars, and be focused solely on jobs and rebuilding the once great infrastructure of our Country! Phase 4

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1 minute ago, shader said:

It's tough.  I think the bailout, the increased unemployment and the stock market rise over the last week has taken the sting out of the financial concerns.  But when this starts back up, there are definitely going to be a lot of problems getting this thing going again.  

You have a business right?  How difficult will it be for you?

I was thinking about a local pizza place that we love.  We know they've probably had to get rid of all their food, all their employees are likely furloughed, they are making no money, they still have to pay rent, how long can they survive in that hybrid spot?  And when they do re-open, are their workers going to come back?  Will they have the money to re-stock food?  

 

Technically the gov't will pay for two months worth of wages, utilities, and rent if they don't lay anyone off.

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

Two different types of systems.  It's easy for China to round up 10000 people to trace and yank suspected infected people out of their home, stuff them in dog crates, and haul them off to camp.  

South Korea?

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15 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

I'm strongly in favor of test-and-trace, but I do worry that we missed our chance on that.  Maybe this is a failure of imagination on my part, but it seems like our caseload is going to be too high to feasibly allow for contact tracing.  At some point the logistics of that have to be overwhelming, right?

That opportunity was missed the second we had one positive test.  By then the virus already had a huge head start.

Laughably too late now.

I got run out of the thread over this last time, but testing is reactionary.  The tests also have a high incidence of false negatives. 

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

It's tough.  I think the bailout, the increased unemployment and the stock market rise over the last week has taken the sting out of the financial concerns.  But when this starts back up, there are definitely going to be a lot of problems getting this thing going again.  

You have a business right?  How difficult will it be for you?

I was thinking about a local pizza place that we love.  We know they've probably had to get rid of all their food, all their employees are likely furloughed, they are making no money, they still have to pay rent, how long can they survive in that hybrid spot?  And when they do re-open, are their workers going to come back?  Will they have the money to re-stock food?  

 

I own 2 small fitness studios that will be basically without revenue for two full months and even if I talk my landlord into reduced rent I still need to pay insurance and I have a couple employees that I cover their health insurance for as well.

I wish there was a way to allow businesses to open if they follow extreme cleaning procedures and can agree to having social distancing and no more than four or five people in the location at a time.

my personal training studios are 10 times cleaner than any grocery store or carry out restaurant but I’m forced to be closed due to blanket government restrictions that have no nuance to them at all.

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8 hours ago, Dezbelief said:
8 hours ago, TheWinz said:
9 hours ago, matuski said:

Although many docs on the call lamented that flattening the curve too much serves only to extend the duration of the pandemic while resources are in surplus.

But can flattening the curve too much be a bad thing?  We continue to learn about the virus every day, and supplies needed are being produced at a fast rate.  If you told me I was sure to test positive at some point, I would want that time to be when the healthcare system in my area isn't overwhelmed.

A surplus of beds and man hours in some areas at the moment but surely not a surplus of PPE. 

Agreed, if my 66 year old mom needs a ventilator I would like to go to bed each night not wondering if she will be taken off of it in favor of a 20 year old before I wake in the morning.

wrong forearm 

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6 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

The national guidelines dont close businesses. The states have done that. And some hotels are still open all across the country currently, iirc. The Wynn started taking reservations yesterday for the day after the 30 day closure which is April 17th. They could easily cancel them all again, but who knows.

 

You are absolutely correct, National Guidelines...for example the Gov of Florida has shut down South Florida but I still saw the small business owner that cleans pools was out and about my neighborhood today. 

Some hotels are open for sure but it compounds the problems because people come in from other States and bring this virus with them. We don't want visitors right now in Florida, we have checkpoints on all major interstate and highways coming into Florida...at least that's what we're told, I don't live anywhere close to those parts of Florida.

I gotta celebrate both my B-Day(no biggie really) and our 20th Wedding Anniversary on May 20th, 2020 and it's looking more and more like it's going to be an MOP Chip n Dale private dance party in the crib. I'm obviously more upset about the 2nd event, we were going to go to Hawaii, Kauai where we celebrated our 5th Anniversary and when several FBGs helped me actually plan that out and look like an All Star to the Mrs. 

I wish you well, hope you get to pull a one armed bandit down but it's not looking good IMHO. I definitely have been an optimist that we could open back up quickly but that's faded a lot in recent days.  

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7 minutes ago, shader said:

Technology is certainly possible. I read somewhere this morning that the UK is working on an app that alerts you when you're coming within a certain distance of someone that has the coronavirus.  IF everyone downloaded the app, that would be an interesting way of solving the problem.

Of course, it would require elite testing for this to work.

How do they know who has the virus.. beating a dead horse here, but you don't and can't know in real time who has the virus.

This technology is not possible.  Because it relies on information we don't have.

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5 minutes ago, moleculo said:

South Korea?

Different culture.  Also, t

 

4 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

 

heir military is about double the size per capita as ours and working any area 1/10,000th the size.

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9 minutes ago, shader said:

Technology is certainly possible. I read somewhere this morning that the UK is working on an app that alerts you when you're coming within a certain distance of someone that has the coronavirus.  IF everyone downloaded the app, that would be an interesting way of solving the problem.

Of course, it would require elite testing for this to work.

It would also require people to have smart phones. Many seniors don't like my dad. And he's not going to get one either.

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14 minutes ago, snore said:

Same boat, we were about to put our house on the market and move to Tampa. Plan was to be in a new house May. We have put that on hold for a few months as not even sure how to make that happen logistically (sell house, find/buy new house, move stuff, get acclimated to new surroundings, etc) and quite frankly don’t want to go to a state that will likely have an overloaded health system given the demographics of Florida and potentially compound the issue...also being in Minnesota right now close to family and friends as well as our health care providers, etc seems to be the right move. 

We’ve been planning our move to St. Pete since last year. We bought a house in July and our snowbird tenant just left to go back home. We have the movers scheduled for the first week of June and we’re still hopeful it’s going to happen. 
 

Good luck with your efforts. I think it’s probably the right decision to stay where you are given what’s going on for the reasons you mentioned, particularly being around family. 

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Technically the gov't will pay for two months worth of wages, utilities, and rent if they don't lay anyone off.

Do you really believe that BnB? 

I'm a doubting Thomas in general so forgive me but I just don't see it. Small business owners are going to get pushed to their breaking point and they will likely fold, hold on to whatever reserves or cash they have and try to get ready perhaps to start again but it won't be immediate whenever the first day we can go back to work IMHO...there will be businesses that close forever. Some already have.

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13 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

I apologize, @JaxBill had the link and I am now reading more of these...South Florida is Stay-At-Home thru Mid May!!!

Miami to Hard Rock in Ft laud to Palm Beach and Monroe County for Key West...just WOW!!!

To simply share how different the messages are here in Florida and South Florida, I'm trying to make sure I have this correct...actually I am a bit befuddled. Locals say one thing, State Leaders issue another, the President said April 30th, today it's Middle of May...

So many mixed messages down here, I saw it first hand at the hospital Sunday Night, it's going to get much crazier here I think. 

I wonder if the Stay at Home order in South Florida will apply to boaters with their own slips or docks on their waterfront homes? I'm not jealous mind you but I just wonder if they will now be ticketed by the Marine Patrol. 

Florida is foolish.  The whole state should be shut down and not just 4 counties.  

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Remember when other countries were getting hit hard and we were wondering if it would happen to us?

Italy currently has the 2nd highest number of cases at just over 100K positives.  We have 65% MORE than them alone at almost 165,000 cases, leading the world by far.  Thankfully our death rate is currently lagging behind, but it was only recently that we didn't even have 100 dead and we are now over 3,000. 

I really hope our efforts start to pay off soon.

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