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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (20 Viewers)

Not sure we can answer that question definitively for SARS-CoV2, but standard teaching suggests immune individuals spread infection less effectively than those without antibodies. That being said, there is some evidence vaccinated individuals shed flu better than unvaccinated people (note, this study doesn't measure antibody levels).

There is also talk that COVID-19 vaccines may just attenuate infection, limiting symptoms without completely eradicating the virus from the respiratory tract and elsewhere. Still, the virus is almost certainly spread much more effectively by those who cough/sneeze than asymptomatic individuals.

Natural immunity is likely to be more potent than that induced by vaccines, so if you were actually infected YMMV.
thanks.  careful with that truth telling though.  i got put on ignore for stating that the Phizer and Moderna studies didn't measure for infection and transmission.

to be fair, the media has largely, whether intentionally or negligently, failed to communicate the truth to the public.

 
11/25/2020 at 7:12 PM, Anarchy99 said:
Thoughts and prayers. I am currently home alone, COVID positive, and sick like I’ve never been before. Hopefully I can stay out of the hospital. I cannot be held responsible for my actions the next time I come across someone that says it’s JUSTA FLU, BRO. 
Thinking about you, gb...wishing you well. Hope you're on the uptick soon.

 
I was following this thread pretty closely back in March-May, but tailed off due to overload.

Reading the last few pages I'm sorry to read about loved ones who have passed and others who are sick.

My 17 year old had symptoms a little over 2 week ago and tested positive a week ago Monday.He had minor cold symptoms, running nose and congestion but no fever.

Since then the rest of the family experienced symptoms 5-7 days later and my wife, myself and my older son all tested positive as well.  My daughter tested negative, but didn't have more symptoms until after her test.  I am sure she is positive now.  Luckily, our symptoms have all been minor, slight fever, congestion, etc and we are all symptom free besides the lack of sense of taste.  This one was the worst for me as I was completely lacking sense of taste besides I could taste some sweets.  It's gotten a little better, but not much.  I am not complaining mind you, compared to others, we are very lucky.  I was most worried about my adult son (20) who back in April suffered from myocarditis  from the virus that causes mono.  He was in the hospital 4 days.  I was worried this virus would cause similar results but so far we have been lucky.

My 17 year old has since been cleared by the DOH, while the rest of us are quarantining.

Question for those who might know.  My mom is 88 and hasn't left her apartment since March.  After we are all cleared, how safe would it be for us to visit her?  I think she would enjoy that but I do not want to put her at risk.

 
I was following this thread pretty closely back in March-May, but tailed off due to overload.

Reading the last few pages I'm sorry to read about loved ones who have passed and others who are sick.

My 17 year old had symptoms a little over 2 week ago and tested positive a week ago Monday.He had minor cold symptoms, running nose and congestion but no fever.

Since then the rest of the family experienced symptoms 5-7 days later and my wife, myself and my older son all tested positive as well.  My daughter tested negative, but didn't have more symptoms until after her test.  I am sure she is positive now.  Luckily, our symptoms have all been minor, slight fever, congestion, etc and we are all symptom free besides the lack of sense of taste.  This one was the worst for me as I was completely lacking sense of taste besides I could taste some sweets.  It's gotten a little better, but not much.  I am not complaining mind you, compared to others, we are very lucky.  I was most worried about my adult son (20) who back in April suffered from myocarditis  from the virus that causes mono.  He was in the hospital 4 days.  I was worried this virus would cause similar results but so far we have been lucky.

My 17 year old has since been cleared by the DOH, while the rest of us are quarantining.

Question for those who might know.  My mom is 88 and hasn't left her apartment since March.  After we are all cleared, how safe would it be for us to visit her?  I think she would enjoy that but I do not want to put her at risk.
Getting it once does not prevent you from carrying/spreading it.

 
Is that definitive? Not saying you're wrong...I just hadn't heard it yet.
Reinfections are incredibly rare. But they happen. So it is obviously definitive from an absolute perspective, but not from a practical perspective.  

If my family all had the virus and was recovered we wouldnt hesitate for a second to visit my in laws. We know they are lonely and struggling. 

My philosophy would be if visiting them after already having it isnt safe, then it will never be safe and best get on with living and at the very least not having them die in isolation. 

 
Reinfections are incredibly rare. But they happen. So it is obviously definitive from an absolute perspective, but not from a practical perspective.  

If my family all had the virus and was recovered we wouldnt hesitate for a second to visit my in laws. We know they are lonely and struggling. 

My philosophy would be if visiting them after already having it isnt safe, then it will never be safe and best get on with living and at the very least not having them die in isolation. 
Thanks for the reply.

I hear you. I tested positive for the antibodies (I was asymptomatic) and have been feeling more secure about everything. But until the vaccine or being told definitively that it can't be reabsorbed and spread, I don't feel comfortable visiting and exposing my mom or aunt or others directly. That said...I'm ok visiting the house and staying outside while either of them stay inside. Sucks, but better than zoom (other than having to fly to CA from NY to do it!) And an option I hope people while live closer to eachother are taking advantage of.

 
Thanks for the reply.

I hear you. I tested positive for the antibodies (I was asymptomatic) and have been feeling more secure about everything. But until the vaccine or being told definitively that it can't be reabsorbed and spread, I don't feel comfortable visiting and exposing my mom or aunt or others directly. That said...I'm ok visiting the house and staying outside while either of them stay inside. Sucks, but better than zoom (other than having to fly to CA from NY to do it!) And an option I hope people while live closer to eachother are taking advantage of.
Positive for antibodies is a different threshold. I would probably want like 4 positive for antibody tests to feel as comfortable.

Eta: not saying what you are doing is wrong. I would act identical in your situation.i just meant as comfortable as real time diagnosis and PCR +.

 
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Can someone explain this to me?

Is the average IQ in South Dakota below that of your run-of-the-mill lawn gnome? Is the state mascot The Masochist? Will she get blown out in the next election? I just cannot even fathom a  person like this in charge of an entire state.

 
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Can someone explain this to me?

Is the average IQ in South Dakota below that of your run-of-the-mill lawn gnome? Is the state mascot The Masochist? Will she get blown out in the next election? I just cannot even fathom a  person like this in charge of an entire state.
I will take a guess--and this is nothing more than a hypothesis as I don't want to risk getting banned. Unfortuantely there are some politicians that think that promoting safety= infringing on civil liberties---and they would like to paint the opposing politcal party as doing exactly that.  The weird thing is that it is frankly a nonsensical stance.  When authorities do mandatory evacuations in areas where there is fire danger or hurricane danger--is that infringing on civil liberties?   If your house or buisness is in a landslide zone and they deem it to be dangerous to live in or conduct business there--nobody protests that.  The fact that with over a quarter million dead here in the US that some politicians choose to ignore it as being a public health crisis and are still viewing it as a vector to promote or attack a political narrative --is beyond disgusting 

 
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Can someone explain this to me?

Is the average IQ in South Dakota below that of your run-of-the-mill lawn gnome? Is the state mascot The Masochist? Will she get blown out in the next election? I just cannot even fathom a  person like this in charge of an entire state.
Explain what? Like every governor in the country tweeted to support small businesses yesterday. 

That's a clickbait headline. Nothing wrong with what she said. 

Remember, today is #SmallBusinessSaturday These businesses are the lifeblood of so many South Dakota communities. Please support them today and every day! #shopsmall

 
Explain what? Like every governor in the country tweeted to support small businesses yesterday. 

That's a clickbait headline. Nothing wrong with what she said. 

Remember, today is #SmallBusinessSaturday These businesses are the lifeblood of so many South Dakota communities. Please support them today and every day! #shopsmall
Its fine that she is encouraging residents to support small business.  The not requiring citizens to mask up is bad news however.

 
Can someone explain this to me?

Is the average IQ in South Dakota below that of your run-of-the-mill lawn gnome? Is the state mascot The Masochist? Will she get blown out in the next election? I just cannot even fathom a  person like this in charge of an entire state.
It’s a combination of rural communities, low education level (sadly), mob mentality and many other factors. No one wants to wear a mask and when no one else around you is doing it or requiring it, you’re probably not going to wear a mask even if you know you should. That’s amplified in rural communities which is makes up most of the state even some of the bigger cities. I mentioned education because it’s definitely a contributing factor but I know plenty of highly educated people in health care that aren’t taking it seriously.

The crazy thing is that Noem’s approach is very popular there. My mom who I’ve mentioned in here and works with COVID patients daily even defended her though that was a couple months ago and she may have changed her mind at this point.

 
Explain what? Like every governor in the country tweeted to support small businesses yesterday. 

That's a clickbait headline. Nothing wrong with what she said. 

Remember, today is #SmallBusinessSaturday These businesses are the lifeblood of so many South Dakota communities. Please support them today and every day! 
Even vice president elect Kamala Harris tweeted essentially the same thing. The horror

 
Even vice president elect Kamala Harris tweeted essentially the same thing. The horror
I'm starting to think people didn't even read the article before responding. At least nothing other than the title of the article. Tip: The article covered much more than just a day of shopping.

 
Can someone explain this to me?

Is the average IQ in South Dakota below that of your run-of-the-mill lawn gnome? Is the state mascot The Masochist? Will she get blown out in the next election? I just cannot even fathom a  person like this in charge of an entire state.
Did your IQ prevent you from reading past the click bait headline?

What does any of this judgy mcjudge face post have to do with what she actually said?  :lmao:  

 
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Did your IQ tell you to stop reading past the click bait headline?

What does any of this judgy mcjudge face post have to do with wat she actually said?  :lmao:  
Where did I say I took exception to anything she said? I was looking more at the minor details, such as:

"The South Dakota Department of Health on Saturday reported 54 new deaths from COVID-19, surpassing the state's previous record death total of 53."

"Noem, a Republican, has refused to issue a statewide mask mandate and has otherwise disputed science and calls to enact stricter measures to contain the virus in the state."

"Over the past week, more than 42% of COVID-19 tests in South Dakota administered have come back positive, according to data analyzed by Johns Hopkins University."

None of which has anything to do with the click bait headline. So it's somewhat comical that is what you decided to call out. You obviously didn't get past that personally. The point is you have an elected official putting the lives of her constituents at risk on a daily basis, ignoring even the most basic safety precautions that have been proven effective. So I will reiterate, she can't possibly remain in power the next time the people in SD get a choice can she?

 
for the old, fat and sick who shouldn't be out anyhow...not a big deal for everybody else.
Do the people you consider everyone else also interact with the old, fat and sick? Do the people who are old, fat and sick realize it or do they put themselves into the everyone else category?

 
I'm starting to think people didn't even read the article before responding. At least nothing other than the title of the article. Tip: The article covered much more than just a day of shopping.
I read the whole article. No excuses for the governor's lack of action. But the headline focuses on her tweet encouraging people to shop small businesses. 

 
Do the people you consider everyone else also interact with the old, fat and sick? Do the people who are old, fat and sick realize it or do they put themselves into the everyone else category?
IMHO the messaging should have been different once they realized the virus mostly impacts certain groups. And the young and healthy are 99.99 not likely to have any health complications.  

 
Where did I say I took exception to anything she said? I was looking more at the minor details, such as:

"The South Dakota Department of Health on Saturday reported 54 new deaths from COVID-19, surpassing the state's previous record death total of 53."

"Noem, a Republican, has refused to issue a statewide mask mandate and has otherwise disputed science and calls to enact stricter measures to contain the virus in the state."

"Over the past week, more than 42% of COVID-19 tests in South Dakota administered have come back positive, according to data analyzed by Johns Hopkins University."

None of which has anything to do with the click bait headline. So it's somewhat comical that is what you decided to call out. You obviously didn't get past that personally. The point is you have an elected official putting the lives of her constituents at risk on a daily basis, ignoring even the most basic safety precautions that have been proven effective. So I will reiterate, she can't possibly remain in power the next time the people in SD get a choice can she?
She barely won last time but I think if the election was held today, she would easily win re-election. I think that will change but this isn’t the right forum to dive deep into that.

 
IMHO the messaging should have been different once they realized the virus mostly impacts certain groups. And the young and healthy are 99.99 not likely to have any health complications.  
What happens on Thanksgiving and the upcoming holidays when the ‘young and healthy’ mix with the ‘old and sick’? What happens if those ‘young and healthy’ people have jobs that interact with the ‘old and sick’ or people with high risk people at home? The young and healthy don’t stay in an isolated bubble away from everyone else.

 
I guess I needed a reminder to be a little more charitable in my assumptions of other people when I see them doing something I wouldn't agree with...

I did my Thanksgiving grocery shopping the week before so that I didn't have to deal with extra store crowds closer to Thursday.  I was prepping some dishes on Wednesday and realized I didn't have a few things I needed, so had to run to the store after all.  I decided to try to get in and out as quickly as possible, ran in, grabbed a few things from produce, asked a staff member a quick question, and then headed over to the baking supplies aisle.  Passed a couple of people and scanned the shelf for the herb I was looking for and then... suddenly felt completely naked and stupid as I realized I didn't have my mask on.  It was only as I hurried out of the store with my shirt pulled up over my mouth and nose that I noticed the first person even giving me a funny look.  I just shrugged to her and got out of there to get my mask from the car before returning.  

Anyway, all that is to say that not every maskless person you see in a store is a selfish anti-masker.  Sometimes they're just a temporary moron who would feel really stupid but would actually be very appreciative if someone would kindly point out to them that their face was naked.

 
I guess I needed a reminder to be a little more charitable in my assumptions of other people when I see them doing something I wouldn't agree with...

I did my Thanksgiving grocery shopping the week before so that I didn't have to deal with extra store crowds closer to Thursday.  I was prepping some dishes on Wednesday and realized I didn't have a few things I needed, so had to run to the store after all.  I decided to try to get in and out as quickly as possible, ran in, grabbed a few things from produce, asked a staff member a quick question, and then headed over to the baking supplies aisle.  Passed a couple of people and scanned the shelf for the herb I was looking for and then... suddenly felt completely naked and stupid as I realized I didn't have my mask on.  It was only as I hurried out of the store with my shirt pulled up over my mouth and nose that I noticed the first person even giving me a funny look.  I just shrugged to her and got out of there to get my mask from the car before returning.  

Anyway, all that is to say that not every maskless person you see in a store is a selfish anti-masker.  Sometimes they're just a temporary moron who would feel really stupid but would actually be very appreciative if someone would kindly point out to them that their face was naked.
Happens a few times a day where I work, not that I always believe them. They usually try to cover their face in some way, so it doesn’t bother me. The people purposely not wearing a mask always seem to have a miserable look on their face.

 
What happens on Thanksgiving and the upcoming holidays when the ‘young and healthy’ mix with the ‘old and sick’? What happens if those ‘young and healthy’ people have jobs that interact with the ‘old and sick’ or people with high risk people at home? The young and healthy don’t stay in an isolated bubble away from everyone else.
You have it backwards, the young and healthy don't have to isolate.  It's the at-risk population that should be isolating.  They know the risk, it is their responsibility.(assuming they can care for themselves)

 
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You have it backwards, the young and healthy don't have to isolate.  It's the at-risk population that should be isolating.  They know the risk, it is their responsibility.(assuming they can care for themselves)
It’s ridiculous to keep making this argument. You can’t isolate them from all outside sources that could pass along the virus. Not to mention that a good chunk of the high risk people don’t believe they are high risk.

You talk about the responsibility of the high risk people but ignore the responsibility of everyone else. We wouldn’t need to shut down schools or businesses if people just were responsible and stopped worrying about living a ‘normal’ life. There is nothing normal about what’s happening now and as soon as more people realize that, the better. Shutdowns are the tools to deal with a failure of social to act responsibly to stop the spread.

 
IMHO the messaging should have been different once they realized the virus mostly impacts certain groups. And the young and healthy are 99.99 not likely to have any health complications.  
Wait, you think only 1,375 young and healthy people that have tested positive in the US have had health Complications?

99.99% is 1/10,000 and we have over 13,750,000 cases in the US.

 
What if one truly is ignorant? Because the idea that old, fat and sick people “shouldn’t be out anyhow” isn’t exactly a well reasoned stance.
It's downright antithetical to a free society to say that, but hey, who's counting on freedom anyway? We're talking about efficiency here.

 
Thoughts and prayers. I am currently home alone, COVID positive, and sick like I’ve never been before. Hopefully I can stay out of the hospital. I cannot be held responsible for my actions the next time I come across someone that says it’s JUSTA FLU, BRO. 
Haven't seen you in a bit...please check in and let us know how you're doing. 

 
Glad to see we are back to arguing if it is just something for the old and weak to worry about.  :thumbup:

We still have two people hospitalized from our work. Yes. The one is an older lady and the other is a guy who has some health issues. But neither of them had the opportunity to shelter in place and not go to work. Someone should have given them the memo that all they had to do was stay home. 

I get it. I still have people that work in our company who think this is no big deal. Even though we've had folks get very sick, hospitalized and a couple family members die. Everyone is tired of this pandemic.

 
It is at least somewhat comforting that deaths are a factor of 4 fewer than the last peak.  Texas for some reason is only a factor of 2 down, which is having us rapidly gaining on NJ/NY for per capita deaths.  Texas hasn't quite gotten to the level of reported ICU/Hospital we hit in June timeframe, but there is reason to believe hospitals are not reporting the data fully to maintain elective surgery options.  

 
It is at least somewhat comforting that deaths are a factor of 4 fewer than the last peak.  Texas for some reason is only a factor of 2 down, which is having us rapidly gaining on NJ/NY for per capita deaths.  Texas hasn't quite gotten to the level of reported ICU/Hospital we hit in June timeframe, but there is reason to believe hospitals are not reporting the data fully to maintain elective surgery options.  
Isnt this the same as saying hospitals were misreporting data to get more money for covid deaths? 

I am sure it has happened for both, but without serious proof of either seems like just noise. 

 
It is at least somewhat comforting that deaths are a factor of 4 fewer than the last peak.  Texas for some reason is only a factor of 2 down, which is having us rapidly gaining on NJ/NY for per capita deaths.  Texas hasn't quite gotten to the level of reported ICU/Hospital we hit in June timeframe, but there is reason to believe hospitals are not reporting the data fully to maintain elective surgery options.  
Good for them.  :thumbup:  

 
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Isnt this the same as saying hospitals were misreporting data to get more money for covid deaths? 

I am sure it has happened for both, but without serious proof of either seems like just noise. 
The main issue is hospitals are not well setup for this cost structure.  The change from venting everyone and putting them in body bags after running up 30k-100k in charges plus whatever it was to put a toe tag on,  to proning and piping in 02 at a lower coding, changing the game.  Now you've clogged up hospitals with low value patients and skipping out on the money bags of ortho and cardio.  It's hard to charge people six figures for a bed and a couple straws up their nose.

In Texas they need to maintain 15% capacity to keep doing electives.  So the funny stuff they are doing are playing with what they call "ICU" beds and what they call staffing.  The newest change is pushing inpatient to outpatients with a bottle of O2.  

Just look at DFW.  Magically in this surge we have an additional 400 ICU beds since June.  What's really happening is public hospitals are taking on the proners and leaving the electives to the for profits.  

https://covid-texas.csullender.com/?tsa=E

 
It is at least somewhat comforting that deaths are a factor of 4 fewer than the last peak.  Texas for some reason is only a factor of 2 down, which is having us rapidly gaining on NJ/NY for per capita deaths.  Texas hasn't quite gotten to the level of reported ICU/Hospital we hit in June timeframe, but there is reason to believe hospitals are not reporting the data fully to maintain elective surgery options.  
It makes sense that the death rate is down. We know a lot more about what not to do (for example, release patients to nursing homes with poor/nonexistent protocols) than we did in the spring.

 
It makes sense that the death rate is down. We know a lot more about what not to do (for example, release patients to nursing homes with poor/nonexistent protocols) than we did in the spring.
It's amazing that people continue to post this.  The whole "BuT w3 ZenT Peeoples to NUrzinG H0m3z" cost at most 8000 of the 250000 deaths.  Some estimates have this number at fewer than 1000.  Yes, that sucks and was regrettable, but we've learned from that and moved forward and very quickly.  

 
It's amazing that people continue to post this.  The whole "BuT w3 ZenT Peeoples to NUrzinG H0m3z" cost at most 8000 of the 250000 deaths.  Some estimates have this number at fewer than 1000.  Yes, that sucks and was regrettable, but we've learned from that and moved forward and very quickly.  
Chill, dude, that's not what I was saying at all. 

 
Was exposed this past week.

Went to visit family for thanksgiving. Myself + GF / Brother + Wife + 2 Nieces / My parents. 

Presumably the Gf and I were the only ones who hadn't had it within the last 2 months so we got tested before flying, and used good PPE on flight. 
 

All was fine until folks had a "Denier" neighbor/BFF (55yo) Russ and his wife Kim, plus another couple Keith & Tina (60s) over on Monday evening. Sat outside on back patio around 7ft dia table. GF and I intentionally positioned ourselves on the far side of the table.  Nobody was symptomatic. 

24 hours later we get a call. Denier Russ is positive. Keith was on one side of him at the table, and my pop was on the other. 

2 days later Keith was positive. 

GF and I have not had symptoms and were tested Sat before flying (negative). Now quarantining for another few days at home to be safe but clearly a close call. 

Once we got the call my folks listened to us and kept it to family only (like it should have been to begin with). Rest of the week was great. Took the boat out fishing, swam, etc. Great family time. 

 
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Here is how frustrating dealing with COVID / COLD stuff can be.

Week of 11/16 - 11/19 I was exposed to a number of people at work that ended up coming down with COVID.

Starting Friday 11/20 - Monday 11/23 I had a headache, sore throat and congestion. I ALWAYS have congestion though. Take allergy medicine daily.

Wed. 11/24 - I get tested for COVID. Awaiting results

Thur 11/25 - Grandkids (who live next door and are over EVERY SINGLE DAY) get sick. 1 year old and 3 year old. Mom takes 3yr old to ER on Thanksgiving. Diagnosed with Croup and double ear infection.  No COVID test given. This is the Cleveland Clinic hospital and they deal with COVID non-stop. We trust that they did not need to give the little guy a covid test.

Friday 11/26 - I get a negative COVID results. Wife comes down with congestion. Assuming it is from the kids.

Saturday 11/27 - Myself and my 20 year old son now have congestion. Slight cough. Feeling confident because the grandkids had snotted all over everything and they are not COVID positive. Wife is still dealing with crud.

Sunday 11/28 - Son finds out late that a co-worker at Walmart has tested positive. He has close contact with her daily. 

TODAY - Son still has congestion and slight cough. A second co-worker has tested positive that he works directly with. He is currently getting a covid test right now.

:wall:

It feels like this is going to be the new normal until we get through this. 

 

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