massraider
Footballguy
He didn't need to, his rhetoric on right wing extremism was all the green light they needed.
Obviously, that's just my opinion, but look what the Proud Boys did with 'Stand back and stand by".
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
timschochet’s political thoughts and commentary- back in here until the election is done (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
Obviously, that's just my opinion, but look what the Proud Boys did with 'Stand back and stand by".
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Because they want my vote and to go on record as saying they won't do it? Not that they can't lie that happens all the time anyway. But by not going on record we all know what is going to happen.
timschochet
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Don't know where to really put this so, here we go.
This is how you apologize. We could all learn something here
This is how you apologize. We could all learn something here
GoBirds
Footballguy
Not because of Pence last night, he was head and shoulders above Harris’ poor acting. That is in the rest of the world outside the PSF and Liberal media.
But nice attempt to move the goalposts.
Mile High
Footballguy
Link?Not because of Pence last night, he was head and shoulders above Harris’ poor acting. That is in the rest of the world outside the PSF and Liberal media.
But nice attempt to move the goalposts.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
First reply
"Who?"
You are right though - seems like a good apology. Hopefully because he realized he did something dumb and put himself and potentially others at risk but the cynic in me thinks it's mostly because he realized he probably ruined his career or at least his chance at stardom.
timschochet
Footballguy
Trump’s main concern tonight appears to be pressuring Barr to indict...Hillary? Obama? Biden? Trump wants SOMEBODY arrested.
sho nuff
Footballguy
That and making stuff up about Biden and slinging crap at Whitmer on a day we learn militia were planning to kidnap her.
And retweeting OAN reporters lies about Biden and adding his own.
Did you know that Joe Biden is against religion?
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
I’ve made good natured fun of Dan Bogino over the years because of his rather questionable reporting. But now it seems he has cancer which is very sad news. Wishing him the best.
timschochet
Footballguy
That thread headline below mine scares the hell out of me. Just because Donald Trump is soon to be going away (hopefully) doesn’t mean Keith Olbermann needs to come back. Must I really be forced to trade one for the other?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
@Ramblin Wreck made an interesting point in the MAGA thread. I’ve tried to honor the wishes of those guys and not post in there so I’ll dump it here in the Tim Politics thread because I don’t think everything needs a new thread.
RWs point was (and he can correct me if I have it wrong) but why all the angst over foreign (Russian) interference in our election through propaganda but not much is said about domestic interference. I’m generalizing his thought as he specifically was talking about the liberal media but I do think the overall idea/question is a worthwhile one. If we found out domestic group X was interfering with elections through propaganda (or other means) should we all be as upset over that as we would be Russia/China/whoever.
Not even sure what my take would be except I just want honest and fair elections. I’ve also said I don’t care what someone uses to come to their voting selection but that was in the context of religion - misinformation, outright lies, propaganda and the like is an issue whether it’s foreign or domestic. Is it drastically different if groups here spread propaganda vs. Russia doing it?
*Note - I’d rather not turn this in to a debate in which is worse - CNN or Fox. Let’s take the abstract idea and discuss that.
RWs point was (and he can correct me if I have it wrong) but why all the angst over foreign (Russian) interference in our election through propaganda but not much is said about domestic interference. I’m generalizing his thought as he specifically was talking about the liberal media but I do think the overall idea/question is a worthwhile one. If we found out domestic group X was interfering with elections through propaganda (or other means) should we all be as upset over that as we would be Russia/China/whoever.
Not even sure what my take would be except I just want honest and fair elections. I’ve also said I don’t care what someone uses to come to their voting selection but that was in the context of religion - misinformation, outright lies, propaganda and the like is an issue whether it’s foreign or domestic. Is it drastically different if groups here spread propaganda vs. Russia doing it?
*Note - I’d rather not turn this in to a debate in which is worse - CNN or Fox. Let’s take the abstract idea and discuss that.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Outright lies and propaganda is bad no matter what...looks more shady coming from a foreign country trying to actually influence things though to the extent Russia tried (as we know by actual investigations vs just complaints about the unfair media)
timschochet
Footballguy
With regards to election interference, I never cared all that much. I don’t think that Russia’s interference made a difference last time around, and I don’t care about domestic interference either. I think our system works pretty well, and just like concerns about voter fraud, we’re pretty much immune to interference in terms of results. People voted for Trump in 2016 because that’s what they chose to do.
The Russian story is important because of what the Trump campaign, and Trump himself, knew about it, Trump’s attempts to cover it up (which are themselves impeachable offenses) and Trump’s perplexing subservience to Putin.
The Russian story is important because of what the Trump campaign, and Trump himself, knew about it, Trump’s attempts to cover it up (which are themselves impeachable offenses) and Trump’s perplexing subservience to Putin.
timschochet
Footballguy
Anybody else listen to Trump’s interview last night? He sounds sick. He should be in bed (perhaps he is.) Going to a rally sounds like a very bad idea.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
You got it. But for most people the level of outrage is going to correlate into what side your on and who's being helped. There's 3000 pages of Russian outrage here and there won't be 30 posts about the US Media influencing elections. Because this is a lib forum and mostly lib media. Damn, the media was caught giving Hillary Clinton the freaking debate questions in advance four years ago and most people were like meh as long as it helps beat Trump who cares. Scary times (as is foreign influence from Russia, China or anyone else)
The Commish
Footballguy
The last I watched our MSM, it was just as damaging to our societal health as any foreign actor. That's not unique to "liberal" or "conservative". It applies to both. Haven't been in that goat rodeo thread in months, so I don't know the discussion exactly, but the primary reason they are treated differently, in my view, is that speech in this country is protected. The ONLY way to get rid of that sort of stuff is to stop watching it (ie...hit them in the pocketbook). So the question REALLY is, "why are you guys who ##### and piss and moan about our MSM continually supporting the behavior by giving it oxygen?" There are a myriad of people in this very forum who rant and rave over how bad our media outlets are all while consuming them like no other. It's one of the more bizarre aspects of our society. Personally, I couldn't believe how freeing it was to give up all the MSM outlets. Yes, I still watch my local news and I listen to certain programs on NPR etc, but for actual news/information, I don't use any of the outlets in this country.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'll also add that it's significantly easier to draw the line of what's "illegal" when it's stipulated as such in our laws. It's only logical that foreign influence would get more attention because it's coming from outside the house, which is illegal. When it's internal and more like feuding brothers it becomes more problematic unless one of the brothers steps over the line and breaks the more lenient internal laws.
massraider
Footballguy
Interference to me, that is "really concerning," is spreading disinformation to voters, affecting their votes through pure lies, untruths, and statements taken out of context. Stating things that are NOT TRUE, presenting them as fact.
If you are asking if outside interference matters more than domestic: Offhand I cannot see why it would. If there are groups spreading disinfo (via social media especially), in my opinion if they are Americans it's even worse. Because I KNOW Russians don't care about the ideals of democracy and voting rights that we (claim to) hold dear. So if Americans are behind it, I want to see them in prison. There is too much on the line, every election, for Americans to think they can put their thumb on the scale.
https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/09/25/fake-social-media-turning-point-usa
People from this story should go to prison. This is a troll farm, not in the Ukraine, but in Arizona. The founder of the company behind this is Charlie Kirk, who opened the Republican National Convention this summer.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/jack-burkman-jacob-wohl-robocall-voter-intimidation-charges/index.html
These two bumbling fools should go to prison. They have no connection to the GOP, they are just idiots.
The misinformation right now is mail-in ballots. The right-wing Heritage Foundation, after examining 36 years of mail-in ballots, found only 1,285 cases of voter fraud out of nearly two billion votes cast — a rate of .0000007 percent.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/09/21/voter-fraud-fears-and-mail-worries-grab-headlines-but-the-wait-will-be-the-worry-in-2020/
However, if you google the Heritage Foundation and voter fraud, you do NOT get the Heritage Foundation telling you this is a non-story. You get scary vague stories, and statements like: "The United States has a long and unfortunate history of election fraud." Their own research tells us this isn't true.
And this is without even discussing voter suppression, the removal of polling spots in urban areas, and the long history of GOP operatives openly discussing how the fewer the votes the better for them. There are many, many quotes, and decades of proof of the GOP doing what they can to make it HARDER for every eligible American to vote.
Election interference is not a 'both sides do it equally" thing, and anyone that thinks so, is simply not informed. Seriously. It's a cop-out.
Show me election interference from Antifa, any George Soros-backed cabal, and I will condemn it, and tell you they should all go to prison.
@AAABatteries your question about domestic interference is interesting, but you want to leave the networks out of it. Calling CNN domestic election interference is all they have.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Obviously they want every vote they can get, but they know they're not getting your vote no matter what they say. So they don't go out of their way to say things that would please you.Ramblin Wreck said:
timschochet
Footballguy
The 3000 pages are because Trump may have colluded in some fashion and tried to cover it up. Nothing to do with “libs”.
People were meh about the Hillary debate questions story because it was a meh story, She was “given” two questions that were so basic that any moron would have known they were coming anyhow. No idea why you’re bringing this up now.
timschochet
Footballguy
Many conservatives are making a whole lot this morning about Steve Scully tweeting Scaramucco for whatever reason, which supposedly proves that Scully, who is set to moderate the next debate (what debate?) is biased against Trump. And this proves the media is out to get Trump!
I don’t know Scully. Moderators aren’t judges. If their questions are fair I don’t care what they think. Seems pretty flimsy. Isn’t there anything else to be outraged about this morning? Maybe Jane Fonda said something stupid again.
I don’t know Scully. Moderators aren’t judges. If their questions are fair I don’t care what they think. Seems pretty flimsy. Isn’t there anything else to be outraged about this morning? Maybe Jane Fonda said something stupid again.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Widbil83
Footballguy
“Many conservatives.” The Huffington Post editor blew the whistle on this. And the reason was he thought he was sending him a private message.
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1314391345994194945?s=21
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Once again, why waste everyone's time being intellectually dishonest? You, I, they, and everyone else knows you're not voting for Biden. It would be stupid of them to waste time trying to campaign to you, just like it's dumb to waste everyone's time here pretending you might vote for them.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Be empathetic. Something that too many try not to do at all.timschochet said:
timschochet
Footballguy
No. I’m not trying to explain it at all other than it was a meh story 4 years ago and I have no idea why anyone would choose to bring it up now. Shall we debate Teri Schaivo?
timschochet
Footballguy
OK. Why should I find this important?“Many conservatives.” The Huffington Post editor blew the whistle on this. And the reason was he thought he was sending him a private message.
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1314391345994194945?s=21
Actually let me clarify that with 3 points. First, more people than ever in this country are dying of Covid and the White House has no plan. Second, small businesses are failing all over the country, the airlines are about to lay off thousands of employees, all talk of a stimulus package is stalled thanks to the President and McConnell and the White House has no plan. Third, my state and many others, also the nation, also the world, is facing an immediate, existential crisis in climate change and the White House has no plan.
Now let me return to my question: in light of the above, why should I care about this tweet? and why do you?
quick-hands
Footballguy
What are the current death numbers?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/09/covid-mortality-rate-down/%3FoutputType%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwjb5f3F36fsAhXYAp0JHXnHBLEQyM8BMDp6BAgGEAY&usg=AOvVaw2A4jDaP2aWWB-mfcRunsas&ampcf=1
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Just to be clear on this point - I'm not saying I want to leave it out more than it's been beaten to death already, especially as it relates to which is "worst". I do think how the media influences us with potential misinformation is a good example of domestic interference - how "bad" it is I'm not sure. Like with most things it's a gray area. I tend to agree with you that the idea of foreign vs. domestic doesn't really matter much to me - more so how blatant is the act and who potentially participated in it.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I want to understand - people are actually equating bad media coverage to: cracking voting machines, stealing voter registration records and passing that information on to a Presidential campaign that happened to have multiple high ranking participants who were subsequently indicted for various activities involving their relationships with Russian operatives? If that's the case, I'd have to question the critical thinking abilities of anyone who would equate those things.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Maybe I've missed some posts (or I have the poster hidden) but for my part, I'm trying to understand if there's any difference in folks mind between foreign vs. domestic interference. Assuming they are essentially the same thing - does the fact that it comes from a foreign entity make it "worse"?
timschochet
Footballguy
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
"Domestic interference" is presumably by American citizens, so one could probably make that case that they're simply exercising their rights to advocate for certain political views/positions. Whereas foreign entities don't have the same right to a voice in our process. I haven't followed the conversation but if people are portraying the mere existence of left-leaning US media outlets as "domestic interference" then I'm not sure the comparison is even worth discussing.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't think there is a difference personally. For example, i don't care who's trying to hack into a server to alter votes. It doesn't matter if it comes from foreign or domestic, all should be held accountable.
It appears, however, that there are some actions that are being equated (I think this is where Groovus is going too) that probably shouldn't be. That's a different question though.
massraider
Footballguy
Blaming Trump isn't gong anywhere. You cannot prove that, not with what we know.
But the little PR flack that lives inside me would probably have told Mr. President to maybe not attack the Democratic female governor from the Midwest three weeks before the election.
She attacked him first? Yeah, well, she gets the About To Be Kidnapped Mulligan.
But the little PR flack that lives inside me would probably have told Mr. President to maybe not attack the Democratic female governor from the Midwest three weeks before the election.
She attacked him first? Yeah, well, she gets the About To Be Kidnapped Mulligan.
Yeah, I don't know what "domestic interference" would mean. When it's domestic, it's generally called "civic participation" or some such rather than "interference."
By the same token, there's also no such thing as "foreign civic participation" in American elections. When it's foreign, it's interference.
The difference between domestic participation and foreign interference is rather fundamental.
To be sure, there are ways for American citizens to cheat. They can commit voter fraud, or they can illegally hack campaign servers, etc. But that's not interference -- it's just crime. They can (and have) also set up their own troll farms. This isn't a crime, and also isn't really interference. It's civic participation, but of the really dumb variety.
By the same token, there's also no such thing as "foreign civic participation" in American elections. When it's foreign, it's interference.
The difference between domestic participation and foreign interference is rather fundamental.
To be sure, there are ways for American citizens to cheat. They can commit voter fraud, or they can illegally hack campaign servers, etc. But that's not interference -- it's just crime. They can (and have) also set up their own troll farms. This isn't a crime, and also isn't really interference. It's civic participation, but of the really dumb variety.
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet
Footballguy
Trump raises the offer to 1.8 trillion:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/09/politics/stimulus-negotiations-latest/index.html
Pelosi had lowered hers to 2.2, so they’re a lot closer than they were. There are details of course as well. And the Democrats have no desire to help Trump politically at this point.
I don’t care. Let’s get this deal done.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/09/politics/stimulus-negotiations-latest/index.html
Pelosi had lowered hers to 2.2, so they’re a lot closer than they were. There are details of course as well. And the Democrats have no desire to help Trump politically at this point.
I don’t care. Let’s get this deal done.
massraider
Footballguy
We might want to think about widening the scope of the group of people who have this same lack of desire.
There are GOP senators that don't need Trump. If they decide they wanna go all Freedom Caucus on this thing after it PASSES the House, well then the GOP looks terrible.
Then Trump finds out about it, and takes a giant Tweet Turbo Vomit all over the Senate, right before election day.
Widbil83
Footballguy
Scullly was a former intern of *wait for it* Joe Biden (and also Teddy). So he already has a history of working for awful Democrat politicians. Now he’s supposed to be calling balls and strikes for his old boss, and in the meantime he’s caught doing god knows what with the Mooch. You guys would have a thread about this topic with 600 posts by now if this were the other way around.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Caught asking him a tame question? No...there would not be such a thread. So please explain why its bad rather than continuing to claim...it would be a huge thread if it was the other way around. Seems like a copout to get to complain about something without ever being able to say what was even bad about the tweet.
timschochet
Footballguy
They had a poll tonight on FreeRepublic.com: after President Trump is easily re-elected, should conservatives be forgiving and make nice with Democrats?
The overwhelming answer was “NO!!!”
The overwhelming answer was “NO!!!”
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
That is idiocy. Both sides should be more open to working with the other, but far too many are concerned with "winning." Typical politicians.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Would you consider planning to pack the court playing nice. And do you think the democrats will be forgiving and play nice?timschochet said:
As a conservative I go with the President Lincoln's instruction of how to handle the south after the Civil War. "Let em up easy".
But I dont think I've ever been on the FreeRepublic website. But there is not a lot of desire to let the other side up easy. Seems like both sides only want to pull the other guy up half way so you can pull them into a heal kick.
Its unfortunate.
timschochet
Footballguy
Actually I found the whole thing a little amusing. That site is made up of hyper partisan conservatives. Of course they’re not going to want to make nice, ever. But it was just funny the way it was phrased: “after Trump is easily re-elected”
timschochet
Footballguy
So Trump is giving balcony speech today- well, there are famous figures form the last century that were known for the power of their balcony speeches- their names were Benito and Eva.
But I think the media is making a little too much about the threat Trump personally will pose to his audience- surely he will be far away enough that his saliva can’t carry even to the first row, right? It seems to me that the irresponsibility of the event comes not from Trump’s condition but from the fact that they’re inviting a couple of thousand people and that, though they’re handing out masks, they’re not going to force anyone to wear them.
But I think the media is making a little too much about the threat Trump personally will pose to his audience- surely he will be far away enough that his saliva can’t carry even to the first row, right? It seems to me that the irresponsibility of the event comes not from Trump’s condition but from the fact that they’re inviting a couple of thousand people and that, though they’re handing out masks, they’re not going to force anyone to wear them.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Oh you should hang out there a while. Post something and find yourself responding to 6 people at once.
Easily reelected is a stupid comment. Cuz we know Biden is going to be easily elected.
There is probably a timsochet doppelganger on there.
