Will There Be A Second Debate? (1 Viewer)

The next debate is a town hall format. I would think that would work better for Biden. But who knows?

@IvanKaramazov

This was 2012:

https://twitter.com/cdurlak/status/1311303542603501568

We can get back to this level of civility - if we want to.

IvanKaramazov said:

These things should be abolished.  They make our nation collectively stupider by turning government into a football game.  As someone who watches a lot of football but avoids the hell out of political debates, it's hard not to notice how blue fans and red fans approach debates exactly the same way I approach Bills games. IMO, that's fine for sports -- it's a harmless form of escapism that gets some of the tribalism out of your system.  It's very bad for government though.

Maybe there was a time when debates made sense, but they've clearly outlived their usefulness.  

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As tough as it was to watch, I think last night's debate was valuable in putting on display some of the personality traits of the presidential candidates. That can be important. People are deciding who should have access to the nuclear codes.

Maurile Tremblay said:

As tough as it was to watch, I think last night's debate was valuable in putting on display some of the personality traits of the presidential candidates. That can be important. People are deciding who should have access to the nuclear codes.

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Yeah, but . . . . did your opinion of either candidate actually change after last night's debate?   

IvanKaramazov said:

Yeah, but . . . . did your opinion of either candidate actually change after last night's debate?   

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Yes.

It'd be weird for my views, formed over many years, to radically change based on a single debate. But each bit of novel information prompts a slight update. Biden was less verbally smooth than I expected him to be, especially in the first thirty minutes. Trump was more loathsome and impetuous than I expected him to be (which is saying something).

My opinion of both candidates changed a little.

More importantly, people coming into the debate with weaker priors than mine may have changed their opinions much more significantly.

Commission on Presidential Debates has issued a statement on last night's debacle: "Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues."

More changes to be announced...

Maurile Tremblay said:

As tough as it was to watch, I think last night's debate was valuable in putting on display some of the personality traits of the presidential candidates. That can be important. People are deciding who should have access to the nuclear codes.

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Why?  Not only have both of their personalities been in the public spot light for decades, but, each of them have already had access to the nuclear codes for 4 years or more at a time.  Seems more applicable to next week's debate.

No need. Time to vote and move on.

Sinn Fein said:

Commission on Presidential Debates has issued a statement on last night's debacle: "Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues."

More changes to be announced...

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Interesting - I think that helps Biden.  I'm sure there will be some big conspiracy theory that comes out about this shortly.

I would ask if we know anything about the Commission or who is on it but you know what, I don't care - I would completely disagree with anybody who watched that debacle and came to a different conclusion than what is stated above.

Sinn Fein said:

Commission on Presidential Debates has issued a statement on last night's debacle: "Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues."

More changes to be announced...

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What I'd recommend...

Allow a rigid amount of time for each question and rebuttal. 

Mics are turned off when it's not their turn and when the clock ends.  

Don't do the split screen thing -- only show the speaking candidate.  

Don't have the moderator try to fact check or force the candidate to answer questions.  Just let them give whatever answer they want.

However, even with those changes, I think Biden should cancel.  

Juxtatarot said:

What I'd recommend...

Allow a rigid amount of time for each question and rebuttal. 

Mics are turned off when it's not their turn and when the clock ends.  

Don't do the split screen thing -- only show the speaking candidate.  

Don't have the moderator try to fact check or force the candidate to answer questions.  Just let them give whatever answer they want.

However, even with those changes, I think Biden should cancel. 

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I agree with these except that I do want the moderator to steer the candidate back on track if he's not answering the question that was asked.

themeanmachine said:

A mute button controlled by Chris Wallace is the only thing that could have helped last night. Biden should insist on one for any other debates. At the control of the moderator, if a candidate is excessively interrupting during the other candidate's 2 minutes. Trump would refuse to allow that, there would be no further debates, and Biden could paint Trump as the one who is too scared for a real debate.

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All of this, exactly.

I have to think Trump's camp strategy was to get him bluster and disrupt as much as possible. I have to believe at this point, after all the sublime lunacy we've seen for the past 4 years, that there is no way he can grow his base. The only thing he has is his base, and it's beyond crucial for him not to lose a single supporter. And that kind of behavior -- regardless of how crass, unhinged, and unstatesmanlike it is -- is exactly the kind of behavior that appears like "strength" to his base. 

Absolutely Biden should press for more debates, with muting mikes as a stipulation. There is no way Trump and his camp would agree, and Biden can publicize that Trump has nothing but bluster and is afraid to engage in a time-honored American tradition -- one that dates back to Lincoln-Douglas -- of letting the people hear from the people who will represent their voice for the next four years.

Stompin' Tom Connors said:

All of this, exactly.

I have to think Trump's camp strategy was to get him bluster and disrupt as much as possible. I have to believe at this point, after all the sublime lunacy we've seen for the past 4 years, that there is no way he can grow his base. The only thing he has is his base, and it's beyond crucial for him not to lose a single supporter. And that kind of behavior -- regardless of how crass, unhinged, and unstatesmanlike it is -- is exactly the kind of behavior that appears like "strength" to his base. 

Absolutely Biden should press for more debates, with muting mikes as a stipulation. There is no way Trump and his camp would agree, and Biden can publicize that Trump has nothing but bluster and is afraid to engage in a time-honored American tradition -- one that dates back to Lincoln-Douglas -- of letting the people hear from the people who will represent their voice for the next four years.

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I think this touches on a core problem we have as a country right now and a problem we have in the PSF.  @Joe Bryant has asked us to be civil to one another - totally fair request not only because it's his board but because it's the right thing to do.  You will always have people, regardless of their politics, who will act "crass, unhinged, and unstatesmanlike".  I don't think we have too many of those in the PSF but maybe some.  What we seem to have a decent amount of are folks that mimic the debate the other night.  MAGA supporters who like the crassness, in somebody's face, don't back down and then folks on the other side who get right down their in the arena at times and calling the MAGA people "clowns" and tell them to "just shut up".  Those people (and at times I've done this myself - mea culpa) look at MAGA and say "how can you possibly like this?  how can you support this?".  Ultimately both sides aren't involved in civil discourse, and it's really not getting us anywhere.  Joe repeatedly points that out.  That "debate" was the PSF come to life.

But here's my real point (and I'm finally getting to it).  It is no surprise that an anonymous message board will devolve in to that when the supposed best of the best of us displays it on national TV for the world to see.  And this somewhat fundamental issue is why Trump is so bad for us as a country - why many of us lose our heads and say things we shouldn't, why we are so saddened to see what we've become and finally, why we lash out  - because it's the easy thing to do, the simple thing, the thing that makes us feel better in the moment.  Will civility return if Trump loses?  Maybe, maybe not - but I can guarantee you that it won't return why he's still in office.  He must be voted out.

Sinn Fein said:

obligatory

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I love that they have the beer cans at the ready to put out the fire... safety first!

I think the town hall debate will be the last one.  Biden is good at connecting with people, and this setting benefits him.

I don't believe the Dems will bother with a 3rd.  Why give Trump a chance to get back in the race.

Chaz McNulty said:

I think the town hall debate will be the last one.  Biden is good at connecting with people, and this setting benefits him.

I don't believe the Dems will bother with a 3rd.  Why give Trump a chance to get back in the race.

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You don't think Trump will get back into the race if Biden suddenly cancels a debate? It would play right into the "Biden has dementia" disinformation that Trump has been spreading.

Joe Summer said:

You don't think Trump will get back into the race if Biden suddenly cancels a debate? It would play right into the "Biden has dementia" disinformation that Trump has been spreading.

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I think 2 debates are enough.  Everyone knows Joe fumbles around with words and is not a good debater.  They will weigh the odds of pulling out of a 3rd debate vs coming off slow in the 3rd debate.  I think they pull out.

They can also request a bunch of rules like muting the mic, etc., that they know Trump will not agree to.  They can use that as an excuse.

Maurile Tremblay said:

Juxtatarot said:

What I'd recommend...

Allow a rigid amount of time for each question and rebuttal. 

Mics are turned off when it's not their turn and when the clock ends.  

Don't do the split screen thing -- only show the speaking candidate.  

Don't have the moderator try to fact check or force the candidate to answer questions.  Just let them give whatever answer they want.

However, even with those changes, I think Biden should cancel. 

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I agree with these except that I do want the moderator to steer the candidate back on track if he's not answering the question that was asked.

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As a compromise, I would settle for a snarky "summation" sort of comment from the mods along the lines of "Ok, I'll just put you down as not wanting to answer the question I asked...moving on...." when they don't answer.

The Commish said:

As a compromise, I would settle for a snarky "summation" sort of comment from the mods along the lines of "Ok, I'll just put you down as not wanting to answer the question I asked...moving on...." when they don't answer.

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Every time a candidate dodges a question or interrupts, a page of his tax returns is released to the public.

Chaz McNulty said:

Joe Summer said:

You don't think Trump will get back into the race if Biden suddenly cancels a debate? It would play right into the "Biden has dementia" disinformation that Trump has been spreading.

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I think 2 debates are enough.  Everyone knows Joe fumbles around with words and is not a good debater.  They will weigh the odds of pulling out of a 3rd debate vs coming off slow in the 3rd debate.  I think they pull out.

They can also request a bunch of rules like muting the mic, etc., that they know Trump will not agree to.  They can use that as an excuse.

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"use that as an excuse" = "Trump will get back into the race"

That's my point. Biden has nothing to gain by pushing for rule changes and then taking his lectern and going home when he doesn't get his way.

Maurile Tremblay said:

Every time a candidate dodges a question or interrupts, a page of his tax returns is released to the public.

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  I like it

Joe Summer said:

"use that as an excuse" = "Trump will get back into the race"

That's my point. Biden has nothing to gain by pushing for rule changes and then taking his lectern and going home when he doesn't get his way.

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I really don't think it damages him by opting out of the 3rd debate.  All the people that cry 'foul' aren't voting for him anyway.  This will get played up on Fox and Brietbart, but lets face it, the consumers of those two networks are voting Trump anyways.

Biden should want more debates. The first debate shifted his chance of winning upwards. He's still only at 80% to win according to 538 (60% according to electionbettingodds.com), which is not nearly high enough for comfort. More debates will also help the Dems take the Senate.

Joe Biden isn't backing out of any debates. He's been in hundreds of debates in his life. After the results of the first one he probably wants one every week now.