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Your opinion on trades in general (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
Full disclosure, I dislike bad trades but I am also a culprit of making them (in my favor) on occasion. I generally feel bad for the other teams when a fair trade on paper is legit in my favor.
Let's not turn into a collusion discussion - think bigger.
Looking for opinions on them. Like how often when a trade goes down in one of your leagues, do you friendly curse that guy out (in your head)?
Let's not turn into a collusion discussion - think bigger.
Looking for opinions on them. Like how often when a trade goes down in one of your leagues, do you friendly curse that guy out (in your head)?
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I think when looking at most trades in any league, you probably go WTF. In my dynasty league and another ai followed and from past experiences, I think 85% of trades have a distinct winner. Take away bad trades and you probably have none. Follow the trade thread here and also the same reactions.
Plus I have seen bad trades that a lot of grief given for, that turn out being great a few years later. In today’s FF, with all the information, you cannot babysit all owners
i had a trade a few weeks ago in my league that saw an owner go ballistic. I thought good for the one owner. Super Flex for a team that owned 7 1st, 6 2nd and 7 3rd. SF, TE Premium, with IDP 14 teams. So he is 0-13-1, next team is 1-13, next team is 1-12-11 and he owns pick, next team is 4-10, and he owns and next team is 5-9. The other owner is contender that lucked into 1-13 team pick. But the team is much better.
so he trades the 5-9 team 1st and 7-7 team first to get the only pick that might cost him getting Lawrence and Fields. But this guy went ballistic and quite a few questioned. So eyes see things differently all the time
Pick team is now got top 4 picks still with pick he got 3rd. while the other sits with 6-7 picks.
Plus I have seen bad trades that a lot of grief given for, that turn out being great a few years later. In today’s FF, with all the information, you cannot babysit all owners
i had a trade a few weeks ago in my league that saw an owner go ballistic. I thought good for the one owner. Super Flex for a team that owned 7 1st, 6 2nd and 7 3rd. SF, TE Premium, with IDP 14 teams. So he is 0-13-1, next team is 1-13, next team is 1-12-11 and he owns pick, next team is 4-10, and he owns and next team is 5-9. The other owner is contender that lucked into 1-13 team pick. But the team is much better.
so he trades the 5-9 team 1st and 7-7 team first to get the only pick that might cost him getting Lawrence and Fields. But this guy went ballistic and quite a few questioned. So eyes see things differently all the time
Pick team is now got top 4 picks still with pick he got 3rd. while the other sits with 6-7 picks.
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
As long as it's not collusion or just complete bs like Nuk for Cole, who cares?
Deamon
Footballguy
You can warn the people, but no one will listen. 3 Posts in its about collusion lol.
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Helaire-ious
Footballguy
It is implied. Why else is there a thread about whining about trades people are jealous of if people would not want it overturned? Otherwise, you're a bunch of Karens...
A trade went down earlier this year in my 12 team league... Robbie Anderson for Singletary. I thought it looked fair on paper, but the team trading away an RB was already super thin at RB so I thought it was dumb.
Turns out not to be so dumb in retrospect. Some people have more insight or a much better understanding of their team than you, so it’s best to let teams pave their own way towards success or failure.
Turns out not to be so dumb in retrospect. Some people have more insight or a much better understanding of their team than you, so it’s best to let teams pave their own way towards success or failure.
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Helaire-ious
Footballguy
This + luck factor and/or we all value guys differently. Sometimes we win & sometimes we lose a trade.
Deamon
Footballguy
unckeyherb
Footballguy
years ago my (now) 20 year old league had a guy trade his first five picks for the first overall pick, with which he took Arian Foster and kept Aaron Rodgers (we were a 6pt per all TD league). I was commish and always had a hard and fast rule of ALWAYS letting a trade go through. This was the first time I even considered some kind of interceding based on the fact that the other guy in this trade would have basically selected his entire starting lineup by round four. The league was totally pissed because obviously the guy with double picks in each of the first five rounds would be unbeatable. I obviously didn't act on this trade, and let it go through like I do with every trade.
Multiple pick guy didn't even make the playoffs, the other guy rode Aaron Rodgers and Arian Foster's monster 2012 seasons to his first championship. It cemented my belief that trades are a vital part of FF and should never, ever be invalidated no matter what the contemporary consensus is.
Multiple pick guy didn't even make the playoffs, the other guy rode Aaron Rodgers and Arian Foster's monster 2012 seasons to his first championship. It cemented my belief that trades are a vital part of FF and should never, ever be invalidated no matter what the contemporary consensus is.
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There is so much luck in FF that nobody knows how any trade will be "fair" or "unfair" or "affect the competitive balance of the league". Injuries, changes in role, underperforming, over-performing, etc all play a role in how a trade is won or lost. There is no good way to quantify it at the time of the trade. Let owners run their teams the way they want to.
In my experience, more often than not a seemingly lopsided trade turns out to be the opposite of the lopsidedness everyone not involved in the trade were #####ing about. In fact, it seems like the more #####ing the more likelihood it helps the team that "lost" the trade.
In my experience, more often than not a seemingly lopsided trade turns out to be the opposite of the lopsidedness everyone not involved in the trade were #####ing about. In fact, it seems like the more #####ing the more likelihood it helps the team that "lost" the trade.
ratbast
Footballguy
I made 2 decent trades this year. One involved Kelly for Fournette the week after he ran well and scored, and my league went crazy that I fleeced him. The other was a trade involving Burrow/Harris and some picks (5 keeper) and I got Carson. Again the league flipped out, and he’s had 7 carries in my lineup.
Everyone thinks they are smart.
Everyone thinks they are smart.
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No, that doesn't matter. What matters is a general sense of fair value at the time of the trade. If you like a guy better and want to trade for him, but he's roughly ranked 40 and the guy who you are giving away is roughly ranked 20, then you have to get more added to your side or else the trade is garbage. It doesn't matter what happens after the trade.
That makes zero sense. All that matters is what the players actually do. The perceived value is irrelevant in evaluating a trade after the fact. After the fact is all that matters for fair or not once its all said and done.
That is like saying I can't trade you my underperforming 1st rounder for the free agent you picked up because one guy is a first rounder and the other guy is undrafted. That is irrelevant. Rankings don't matter. Performance does.
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wlwiles
Footballguy
Only been able to prove it one time. Guy in last place had quit paying attention about 3-4 years ago, traded away his RB2 for some waiver fodder player I can't even remember. Trade posted to the league page (1 day wait period, no vetos). About ten min later a second trade posted, with some other owner who smelled blood in the water getting his WR1. 5 minutes later a third trade posted, he sold his QB. After that the rest of the league started sending him lopsided offers, and he accepted about 7 trades in the next couple minutes. Don't remember the players involved, but all were 1 for 1's that no sane fantasy player would accept. Commish texts the tanker to see what's up, and he replied flat-out "look I"m not paying attention, those guys wanted my players so I said sure why not". Commish had to undo the trades, we locked his team, kindly asked him to just leave the league, it was a mess.
Collusion should be immediately followed by an ejection from the league. If you're not willing to kick the owner(s) out over a trade, then it's not collusion.
Deamon
Footballguy
I hardly ever trade. I will if I have a need.
In terms of how I GENERALLY feel about trades, when I see a week RB team trade his strong WR's to a WR needy team that has RB to spare, my reaction is a positive one. I think "that's a great smart trade that helps both teams. I respect that".
When I see position for position trades, I usually think "what's the point?". In these trades, there has to be a winner and has to be a loser. I don't like that. That's just "hey I'm smarter than you are". It's easy to make those trades and either screw the other guy or get lucky, but I really respect mutually beneficial trades.
In terms of how I GENERALLY feel about trades, when I see a week RB team trade his strong WR's to a WR needy team that has RB to spare, my reaction is a positive one. I think "that's a great smart trade that helps both teams. I respect that".
When I see position for position trades, I usually think "what's the point?". In these trades, there has to be a winner and has to be a loser. I don't like that. That's just "hey I'm smarter than you are". It's easy to make those trades and either screw the other guy or get lucky, but I really respect mutually beneficial trades.
If the guy is giving players away to every one that is not collusion. That is just a guy that doesn't give a crap anymore giving up.
Its bad for everyone but its not collusion.
smcindoe
Footballguy
I guess I fall on the second option, but only in extreme cases. I'm generally in favor of whatever keeps the trade market moving, and I'm against rules that give the rest of the league a vote or veto, but there has to be a line somewhere.
Put it this way -- I've been commissioner of one league for 20 years, and in that time I've had one trade that was so lopsided I asked the two GMs to go back and reconsider before finalizing, because I was worried I was going to have people quitting over it. I've also had dozens of other deals that seemed unfair at the time that went through without a word.
Put it this way -- I've been commissioner of one league for 20 years, and in that time I've had one trade that was so lopsided I asked the two GMs to go back and reconsider before finalizing, because I was worried I was going to have people quitting over it. I've also had dozens of other deals that seemed unfair at the time that went through without a word.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
The answer is #C. If I don't make it someone else will so I may as well reap the rewards before my competition does.
Bad owners are bad, you can't fix that. If they are going to make bad trades you can't regulate it. You can only hope they learn from them and don't repeat it and if they don't, at least hope they make bad trades with enough different owners that there's some level of balancing it out. Otherwise just get them replaced. Only thing you can do.
For this reason I love the format of salary cap/contract cap leagues. When you introduce Free Agency in any format it makes it much, much harder for loaded teams to stay loaded and much, much easier for depleted teams to close the gap. Without this dynamic I don't know how I would fill some of these leagues with new owners for such bad teams, but as is it'll take a year or two to rebuild but it can totally be done.
Bad owners are bad, you can't fix that. If they are going to make bad trades you can't regulate it. You can only hope they learn from them and don't repeat it and if they don't, at least hope they make bad trades with enough different owners that there's some level of balancing it out. Otherwise just get them replaced. Only thing you can do.
For this reason I love the format of salary cap/contract cap leagues. When you introduce Free Agency in any format it makes it much, much harder for loaded teams to stay loaded and much, much easier for depleted teams to close the gap. Without this dynamic I don't know how I would fill some of these leagues with new owners for such bad teams, but as is it'll take a year or two to rebuild but it can totally be done.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I made a lot of trades this offseason which in a vacuum looked like they hurt my team. It's a 16 teamer where any rb who can put up consistent points during the season is highly over valued and I moved a few of mine for wrs like Boyd and middle round picks. Those middle round picks ended up becoming 1.1 and because of my league rewarding points for 1st downs Boyd is a top 10 wr.
You can't babysit your owners, we all pay the fee to get in the door. After we're in it's up to us.
You can't babysit your owners, we all pay the fee to get in the door. After we're in it's up to us.
Manster
Footballguy
I couldn't care less about trades other people do unless there is suspected collusion, and I've never been in a league where that was suspected. In general, I rarely trade anyway, because I've found the ww to be a better resource in the leagues I'm in.....I was in a dynasty league for a minute, and there were lots of trades cuz there was exactly zero on the wire.....still didn't care
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
There's a middle ground.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I could vote for both of these options in the poll and I have also been in the position Hank is talking about, where if I don't trade with the owner some one else will.
Every trade is different and even trades that seem to be clearly in favor of one side over the other, often things do not turn out how we think they will and the trade becomes fine or even flips in the other sides favor after a injury or free agent acquisition.
I will tell you guys a story that I think illustrates this very well.
Back in 2003 I had Ricky Williams who was coming off two 400 touch seasons at that time, he had finished as RB 2 and RB 9 in a league that lets you start 3 RB.
I really wanted Torrey Holt though and to be honest I was a bit nervous about all the touches he had. I read a bunch of things about this that didn't really cut the mustard and I argued against this being a bad thing for a fantasy player, I mean opportunity is king and further study of this shows that the more touches a player gets the more likely it is that they get a lot of touches again.
I forget the other details of the deal but I traded my buddy Ricky WIlliams for Torry Holt and other stuff.
Well Ricky Williams decides to take the 2004 season off. No one knew this was going to happen but it did. I felt bad about my buddy getting a zero there and it looks like I really won that trade. I told him as such and that I would try to make it up to him in a future deal.
Fast forward to the spring of 2007 and I am trying to get the 1st overall pick to draft Adrian Peterson. I send my buddy a package of players and picks that we both considered an over pay for the pick by about the value of a 1st rounder, as I was trying to make up for the previous deal where he lost a lot of value. Part of the package I sent him included Tom Brady.
A month or so later Randy Moss goes to the Patriots and Tom Brady throws for 50 TD that year.
I will never ever worry about the fairness of trades the way I did here again. You just never know what is going to happen.
Every trade is different and even trades that seem to be clearly in favor of one side over the other, often things do not turn out how we think they will and the trade becomes fine or even flips in the other sides favor after a injury or free agent acquisition.
I will tell you guys a story that I think illustrates this very well.
Back in 2003 I had Ricky Williams who was coming off two 400 touch seasons at that time, he had finished as RB 2 and RB 9 in a league that lets you start 3 RB.
I really wanted Torrey Holt though and to be honest I was a bit nervous about all the touches he had. I read a bunch of things about this that didn't really cut the mustard and I argued against this being a bad thing for a fantasy player, I mean opportunity is king and further study of this shows that the more touches a player gets the more likely it is that they get a lot of touches again.
I forget the other details of the deal but I traded my buddy Ricky WIlliams for Torry Holt and other stuff.
Well Ricky Williams decides to take the 2004 season off. No one knew this was going to happen but it did. I felt bad about my buddy getting a zero there and it looks like I really won that trade. I told him as such and that I would try to make it up to him in a future deal.
Fast forward to the spring of 2007 and I am trying to get the 1st overall pick to draft Adrian Peterson. I send my buddy a package of players and picks that we both considered an over pay for the pick by about the value of a 1st rounder, as I was trying to make up for the previous deal where he lost a lot of value. Part of the package I sent him included Tom Brady.
A month or so later Randy Moss goes to the Patriots and Tom Brady throws for 50 TD that year.
I will never ever worry about the fairness of trades the way I did here again. You just never know what is going to happen.
Gotcha. I don’t mind seeing lopsided deals at all , By other teammates, other than jealousy lol. I understand the desire to win trades and I understand overpaying to get a guy when you have resources and are competing. It’s nice to see fair deals for sure but everyone’s opinion of value on guys is different. If it wasn’t traded would be even more of a rare occurrence.
habsfan
Footballguy
RE: collusion, I received a golden nugget of commissioner wisdom from someone on this board years ago. If you have a really bad looking trade, contact the GMs and ask them to explain how it improves their team. If they can (even if you disagree), you're good to go. If they can't explain it to you, you probably have collusion.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I tend to trust the intent of trades so I allow people be adults and make their own decisions.
Respectful adults weed out bad behavior.
When people are treated like adults they act like the way they are treated.
Makes the league stronger in the long run when people behave as everyone expects.
Respectful adults weed out bad behavior.
When people are treated like adults they act like the way they are treated.
Makes the league stronger in the long run when people behave as everyone expects.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
We live draft rookies in our Dynasty League every year. I showed up a little late to a couple buddies talking. The jest of the conversation was one guy trying to fleece a guy who had ZERO viable QB's. The trade involved Wentz for DK and a first. I shut that **** down pretty quick.
One of my friends was pissed I interjected, but the other one trusts my judgement now and will be more willing to sign off on bad trades for me...
Bad trades are the devil of fantasy... we allow vetoes and such, but so many people accept offers and don't actually shop their players. However, I have guys that will sit in the bottom every year and not offer any trades. That result can be bothersome as well.
One of my friends was pissed I interjected, but the other one trusts my judgement now and will be more willing to sign off on bad trades for me...
Bad trades are the devil of fantasy... we allow vetoes and such, but so many people accept offers and don't actually shop their players. However, I have guys that will sit in the bottom every year and not offer any trades. That result can be bothersome as well.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Just exposed the trade to the group of friends, made fun of it and talked about how brittle and over-rated Carson Wentz has been. I'm pretty confident the buddy trying to trade Wentz for DK and a first round pick was hoping to have the deal done before it was brought to light in front of everyone. As this deal was brought to light, the guy with DK ended up picking up a first and another later pick for Julio Jones, which turned out much better for him anyway...
As the commissioner of the league, I have never and will never veto a trade - owner autonomy is huge. Too much commissioner involvement can be a problem too.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Always ask yourself before complaining how a trade could make sense even if you don't like it.. Then if you can't fathom a plausible explanation, ask.
Usually the bad looking trades are at least understandable if you assume the owners are intelligent and not trying to cheat. (Which is a decent way to approach life in general)
