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January 6th - what will happen? (6 Viewers)

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jon_mx said:
I appreciate your viewpoint and you make good points.  But my frustration is everyday I see an arsenal of the big tech companies, the media and democratic politicians demonizing white people and blaming them for virtually everything.  Look at just today for instance, we had the one of the most powerful men in the land, Maverick Garland spewing rhetoric on how white supremacy is growing and how it is the biggest threat to our democracy.  I see Facebook censoring memes that simply suggest if our pipelines can get hacked why can't our elections.  I see news organizations mocking the suggestions it was a tourist visit for most of the Jan 6th protestors.  And they have a point that that is an over the top characterization, but they go a lot farther and state their spin that it was a deadly armed insurrection with threatened our democracy is fact while everything conservatives say about it are revisionist lies.  

It is just too much of this messaging which is a daily theme being beaten into our brains from every direction.  This propaganda that white supremacy is common, that instutionalized racism is the root of all evil, that anything that suggest otherwise must be censored....these are mainstream leftist ideas which has overtaken mainstream news, has over taken our educational institutions, has overtaken virtually all the social media platforms, which has got a firm grip on our sports leagues....it is way way way too much and it is leading to society that treats whites as less than human.  White people must just shut up and just take the abuse.  
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Thank you for the response. But other than Garland’s comment regarding white supremacy (which I haven’t heard about), I’m not sure your other examples are examples of “demonizing white people.”  Facebook censoring memes about our election being hacked is not “demonizing white people.”  News organizations mocking politicians for characterizing January 6 as a tourist visit is not “demonizing white people.” The media characterizing January 6th as a deadly armed insurrection is not “demonizing white people.”

 
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jon_mx said:
Out of touch?  Interesting what is considered out of touch by leftists.  You could put my entire quote up and a majority of white people would agree with it.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/07/white-people-are-winning-the-war-on-whites/

A 2012 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found that an astonishing two-thirds of Republicans agreed that "today discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities."
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It doesn't surprise me that Republicans feel this way but as a white 62 year old male I have experienced zero discrimination due to the color of my skin in my lifetime that I can recall.   Certainly nothing close to the level of blacks, gays and other minorities experience.

Aside from affirmative action (which has never affected me personally) I wonder what other forms of discrimination these white people have experienced?

 
jon_mx said:
Out of touch?  Interesting what is considered out of touch by leftists.  You could put my entire quote up and a majority of white people would agree with it.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/07/white-people-are-winning-the-war-on-whites/

A 2012 survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found that an astonishing two-thirds of Republicans agreed that "today discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities."
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While you may be right, I’m not sure that a study showing what two-thirds of Republicans think (representing only 29% of registered voters) equates to a majority of what all white people think. Perhaps you are conflating race with political party?  42% of white people voted for Biden. I haven’t seen the numbers, but it seems the media is mostly white. Big tech?  Lily white. So while you may have some basis for complaint that there is a “war” that exists against people who deny that institutional racism exists, think that January 6th was a nothingburger compared to the summer riots, who claim our election was stolen, and who believe that our government is run by a cabal of pedophiles, I think characterizing any of those things as a war against white people is missing the mark.  

 
bigbottom said:
Thank you for the response. But other than Garland’s comment regarding white supremacy (which I haven’t heard about), I’m not sure your other examples are examples of “demonizing white people.”  Facebook censoring memes about our election being hacked is not “demonizing white people.”  News organizations mocking politicians for characterizing January 6 as a tourist visit is not “demonizing white people.” The media characterizing January 6th as a deadly armed insurrection is not “demonizing white people.”
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The terms white nationalists, white supremacists, white previledge are thrown around like candy.  They serve to belittle, demonize, blame and they cause a level of hatred towards whites.  You can choose to deny that, but I see a huge impact on the political climate and IMHO were the number 1 contributor to Trump's rhetoric appealing to so many people.  It is similar to the impact of using Muslim terrorists on a daily basis of calling covid a Chinese virus.  It is derogatory and creates animosity, but these term are used with even more hatred and impact.

 
jon_mx said:
The terms white nationalists, white supremacists, white previledge are thrown around like candy.  They serve to belittle, demonize, blame and they cause a level of hatred towards whites.  You can choose to deny that, but I see a huge impact on the political climate and IMHO were the number 1 contributor to Trump's rhetoric appealing to so many people.  It is similar to the impact of using Muslim terrorists on a daily basis of calling covid a Chinese virus.  It is derogatory and creates animosity, but these term are used with even more hatred and impact.
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While I don’t necessarily disagree, most of the examples you gave in your post that I quoted aren’t examples of “white nationalists, white supremacists and white privilege” being a daily theme beaten into our brains from every direction. (And the one example that was on point, I hadn’t even heard about.)

 
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bigbottom said:
While I don’t necessarily disagree, most of the examples you gave in your post that I quoted aren’t examples of “white nationalists, white supremacists and white privilege” being a daily theme beaten into our brains from every direction.
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They are very related.  The whole rationalization behind big tech aggressively using censorsorship to silence all things conservative is under the guise of stopping violence and hate speech which spurs it.  Do you disagree that those terms are widely used by the media, leftist politicians and blm?  

 
jon_mx said:
They are very related.  The whole rationalization behind big tech aggressively using censorsorship to silence all things conservative is under the guise of stopping violence and hate speech which spurs it.  Do you disagree that those terms are widely used by the media, leftist politicians and blm?  
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The bolded is not a war on white people. And “silencing all things conservative” is pure hyperbole. Most of my friends are conservative and 99% of my friends on social media who express political views are conservative. I get to see their unsilenced views every time I log on. As for me, I’m not experiencing those words being beaten into my brain on a daily basis. But clearly I make different choices regarding media consumption. 

 
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bigbottom said:
The bolded is not a war on white people. And “silencing all things conservative” is pure hyperbole. Most of my friends are conservative and 99% of my friends on social media who express political views are conservative. I get to see their unsilenced views every time I log on. As for me, I’m not experiencing those words being beaten into my brain on a daily basis. But clearly I make different choices regarding media consumption. 
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This is such a big piece of the puzzle.   Like you said, I have never known anybody from any political affiliation have posts taken off FB or get banned, but jon claimed a few days ago that he sees it near every day.  I am really curious about the content an tone of these posts, and suspect it's a lot more than just being a conservative viewpoint.  

 
jon_mx said:
The terms white nationalists, white supremacists, white previledge are thrown around like candy.  They serve to belittle, demonize, blame and they cause a level of hatred towards whites. 
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Who do you think are hating "whites" because of those terms?

And, how are those terms adding to that "hatred"?

 
bigbottom said:
The bolded is not a war on white people. And “silencing all things conservative” is pure hyperbole. Most of my friends are conservative and 99% of my friends on social media who express political views are conservative. I get to see their unsilenced views every time I log on. As for me, I’m not experiencing those words being beaten into my brain on a daily basis. But clearly I make different choices regarding media consumption. 
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Certainly there is some hyperbole and figurative speech,  but ask your friends if they think white priviledge is a derogatory term used to silence them.  Ask them if they feel like they are walking on eggshells when expressing their opinion in public.  

 
bigbottom said:
The bolded is not a war on white people. And “silencing all things conservative” is pure hyperbole. Most of my friends are conservative and 99% of my friends on social media who express political views are conservative. I get to see their unsilenced views every time I log on. As for me, I’m not experiencing those words being beaten into my brain on a daily basis. But clearly I make different choices regarding media consumption. 
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There is also something else that should be acknowledged,  IMO. Throughout human history those out of power, without prestige or privilege have always tried to get more. I don't think there is any debate on that.

In our country, white men have been in positions of power,  privilege and prestige since our inception. So, of course, any change to that is going to be made, in part or in whole, is going to be made and led by people that are not white men. And as a result white men are a "target. "

How we choose to respond to that, to me, says more about us then "them." 

 
bigbottom said:
 But clearly I make different choices regarding media consumption. 
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Agreed.  The talking heads on cable news channels spout this stuff non-stop and people watching them begin to believe it is a bigger problem that it is.   This is true of both left and right leaning networks.

I am not on social media (aside from FBGs) but I have seen the kind of political crap that people post (much of it untrue).   My wife is on facebook and will unfriend anyone posting anything political -- I think it is a good practice for everyone.

 
jon_mx said:
Certainly there is some hyperbole and figurative speech,  but ask your friends if they think white priviledge is a derogatory term used to silence them.  Ask them if they feel like they are walking on eggshells when expressing their opinion in public.  
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I can't think of a instance where anyone has used the term "white privilege" when speaking to me but then I rarely express my opinions about such matters in public.

 
KarmaPolice said:
I know I've said this a few times, but maybe it's time for some people to take a deep breath and disconnect.  These aren't mainstream ideas, these are ideas of a few people.  That you say it's beaten into your brain directly reflect choices you are making.  
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It's evident in the posts, and I've made the point maybe a billion times in these threads.  Behavior remains unchanged.  These are the exact problems as I see them:

1.  I see an arsenal of the big tech companies, the media
2.  I see Facebook censoring memes
3.  I see news organizations
 

The above leads to the below:

It is just too much of this messaging which is a daily theme being beaten into our brains from every direction.  This propaganda that white supremacy is common, that instutionalized racism is the root of all evil, that anything that suggest otherwise must be censored....these are mainstream leftist ideas which has overtaken mainstream news, has over taken our educational institutions, has overtaken virtually all the social media platforms, which has got a firm grip on our sports leagues....it is way way way too much and it is leading to society that treats whites as less than human.  White people must just shut up and just take the abuse.  
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If you're going to consume the media outlined above, then you're going to get this perspective, not because the sources believe it's true, but because it will garner your attention.  If one took the time to simply ignore those kinds of sources and talk to other individuals more, it would go a long way in understanding the reality of what people believe.  @bigbottom absolutely crushed it in his reply.  However, doing any/all of this removes the ability to generalize and have real conversations with people, and the more time that goes by, the more I believe that's a feature, not a bug.

To illustrate the point.  People I know and talk to here and outside this country believe that white supremacy is an issue that is on the rise.  They think the actions of some of our politicians have signaled to those fringe groups that their actions might not be all that bad.  As a result, they are becoming more brave/emboldened to express their view.  That gives the impression that it's now "common".  I'd suggest that there aren't really MORE white supremacists in this country, but MORE are coming out and feeling it ok to express their POV.  This is a VERY DIFFERENT, much more nuanced answer/POV than what he presents, but it's also something that can simply be dismissed with "leftist" labels.  I know both conservatives and liberals that believe this and understand it to be a problem.  

 
BladeRunner said:
Well, to be fair, if the BLM/Antifa insurrections were described as "mostly peaceful protests" by liberals and the MSM then January 6th - AT MOST - can be called that.  Much more violence, death, arson and brutality than January 6th ever had.
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You either don’t know what insurrection means or are being disingenuous.  

What happened last summer were riots. Not insurrection.  Words have meaning. 

 
zoonation said:
You either don’t know what insurrection means or are being disingenuous.  

What happened last summer were riots. Not insurrection.  Words have meaning. 
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insurrection n

: the act or an instance of revolting esp. violently against civil or political authority or against an established government. ;also. : the crime of inciting or engaging in such revolt [whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or against the authority of the United States…

Not sure what you were watching but this is exactly what I saw on January 6th.   The rioters weren't there because they were upset that Keeping Up With the Kardashians was being cancelled.

 
Godsbrother said:
insurrection n

: the act or an instance of revolting esp. violently against civil or political authority or against an established government. ;also. : the crime of inciting or engaging in such revolt [whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or against the authority of the United States…

Not sure what you were watching but this is exactly what I saw on January 6th.   The rioters weren't there because they were upset that Keeping Up With the Kardashians was being cancelled.
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to be faiiiiir, the riots of last summer could be considered revolting against municipal police forces, and by this definition, insurrections.

 
A Proud Boys leader charged in the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection expressed shock that former President Donald Trump abandoned him and other rioters.

“Alright I’m gonna say it. MAKE LOVE TO TRUMP,” self-described Proud Boys sergeant-at-arms Ethan Nordean said in a Telegram message on Jan. 20. “Make love to him more than Biden. I’ve followed this guy for 4 years and given everything and lost it all.”

Nordean, 30, from Washington state, wrote the grievance after Proud Boys Florida organizer Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested for his role in the day’s violence, which left five people dead and 140 police officers injured.

“Yes he woke us up, but he led us to believe some great justice was upon us ... and it never happened,” Nordean wrote of Trump in the Telegram message, revealed by federal prosecutors this week. “Now I’ve got some of my good friends and myself facing jail time cuz we followed this guys lead and never questioned it.”

Nordean, who was arrested a week after posting the Telegram message, seemed to realize Trump would not be issuing pardons for him and fellow members of his violent gang.

“We are now and always have been on our own,” Nordean wrote. “So glad he was able to pardon a bunch of degenerates as his last move and #### on us on the way out.”

Nordean, who has been jailed since early February, is charged with attempting to obstruct Congress’s certification of Joe Biden’s Electoral College victory. If convicted, he faces up to 20 years in prison. He’s also charged with aiding and abetting, knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds, and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds. He has pleaded not guilty.

Even as Republican lawmakers attempt to rewrite history, falsely claiming this week that the insurrectionists are the true Jan. 6 victims, Nordean’s own lawyer has put the blame on Trump for inciting the riot.

“Thousands of people descended on Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6 to protest the result of the 2020 presidential election,” public defender Corey Endothe wrote in a February court filing. “Egged on by Donald Trump, other politicians, his legal advocates, and the news media these people believed the election had been stolen. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people entered the Capitol building as Mr. Nordean is alleged to have done.”

The new Telegram messages uncovered by prosecutors also show how the Proud Boys coordinated their plans for the day’s violence.

“Drag them out by the making love hair if they steal it,” one member wrote in the chats.

“Let them remember the day they decided to make war with us,” Nordean posted just days before the attack. “Fight we will.”

In April, bail was revoked for both Nordean and Biggs after federal prosecutors successfully argued the two men were central figures in planning the attack.

Trump, upon leaving office, relocated to his Florida country club.

“Make love to you Trump you left us on [t]he battlefield bloody and alone,” Nordean wrote on Trump’s last day in the White House.
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Awwwww, poor widdle proud boys go betrayed by their fearless little leader......all that cosplay, dressing up as army men for nothing!  Dang.

 
moleculo said:
to be faiiiiir, the riots of last summer could be considered revolting against municipal police forces, and by this definition, insurrections.
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Did anybody break into police stations or beat on cops? Honestly asking... I don' t know.

There was obviously also that well-adjusted fellow who gave all his well-adjusted friends an informal tour of the Oregon State Capitol.

 
“Thousands of people descended on Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6 to protest the result of the 2020 presidential election,” public defender Corey Endothe wrote in a February court filing. “Egged on by Donald Trump, other politicians, his legal advocates, and the news media these people believed the election had been stolen. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people entered the Capitol building as Mr. Nordean is alleged to have done.”
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Huh, now see I was told in here and other places that Donald did NOT egg them on, so.......huh.

 
jon_mx said:
They are very related.  The whole rationalization behind big tech aggressively using censorsorship to silence all things conservative is under the guise of stopping violence and hate speech which spurs it.  Do you disagree that those terms are widely used by the media, leftist politicians and blm?  
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Maybe conservatives should have a look in the mirror if "all things conservative" are deemed violent hate speech.

The reality is that this is hyperbole.  There is room for conservative discussion without the hate speech.

 
Dickies said:
Maybe conservatives should have a look in the mirror if "all things conservative" are deemed violent hate speech.

The reality is that this is hyperbole.  There is room for conservative discussion without the hate speech.
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I honestly am stupefied at use of the word ‘Conservatives’ in this thread. Who is this a reference to? I consider myself a conservative and have zero fear of any conservative political opinion I have being censored. The only censoring of true conservatives is being waged by the new retrumplican party.

 
BigJim® said:
I honestly am stupefied at use of the word ‘Conservatives’ in this thread. Who is this a reference to? I consider myself a conservative and have zero fear of any conservative political opinion I have being censored. The only censoring of true conservatives is being waged by the new retrumplican party.
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Exactly

Most of us, I'm sure, have been around long enough to remember when the country just argued over policy and governance issues.  Those were simpler times....

 
BigJim® said:
I honestly am stupefied at use of the word ‘Conservatives’ in this thread. Who is this a reference to? I consider myself a conservative and have zero fear of any conservative political opinion I have being censored. The only censoring of true conservatives is being waged by the new retrumplican party.
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Who gets to decide who is "Conservative"?  It seems to me that the majority of people who define themselves as "Conservative" should be the people who get to define the term. At the moment the vast majority of self identifying Conservatives are die hard Trumpers and they regard everyone who isn't as not conservative.  It doesn't make you a libera but most of the conservative don't see you as part of the Red Team.. 

I used to think Liberal and Conservative were defined by policy positions held over a long period of time. Maybe the Liberals now are not all that much different than RFK was in 1968 but the Conservatives are very different than  Richard Nixon in 1968 or Reagan in the 1970s

 
Insomniac said:
Who gets to decide who is "Conservative"?  It seems to me that the majority of people who define themselves as "Conservative" should be the people who get to define the term. At the moment the vast majority of self identifying Conservatives are die hard Trumpers and they regard everyone who isn't as not conservative.  It doesn't make you a libera but most of the conservative don't see you as part of the Red Team.. 
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Do you recognize the irony of describing conservatism as a fluctuating thing?

 
BigJim® said:
I honestly am stupefied at use of the word ‘Conservatives’ in this thread. Who is this a reference to? I consider myself a conservative and have zero fear of any conservative political opinion I have being censored. The only censoring of true conservatives is being waged by the new retrumplican party.
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“You are shouting down the voice of Conservative America!  Now will somebody please censure Liz Cheney!”

 
zoonation said:
You either don’t know what insurrection means or are being disingenuous.  

What happened last summer were riots. Not insurrection.  Words have meaning. 
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They do, so use them correctly.  BLM/Antifa attacked and tried to burn down FEDERAL buildings.  That IS an attack on our government.

I know you guys don't want to call them insurrections because facing that hard reality will blow all of your beliefs out of the water.  So that's why you keep calling them "riots" - to somehow make the seem less than what happened on Jan 6th.  They weren't.  It was an insurrection against our government.

And the BLM/Antifa insurrections were much more deadly, brutal and loss of businesses than Jan. 6th EVER was.

Free your mind.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
This is such a big piece of the puzzle.   Like you said, I have never known anybody from any political affiliation have posts taken off FB or get banned, but jon claimed a few days ago that he sees it near every day.  I am really curious about the content an tone of these posts, and suspect it's a lot more than just being a conservative viewpoint.  
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My aunt got banned on 1/6 for cheering about the upcoming "Civil War" while the attack was ongoing. I didn't report her, but I did take a screenshot :lol:  

 
BladeRunner said:
They do, so use them correctly.  BLM/Antifa attacked and tried to burn down FEDERAL buildings.  That IS an attack on our government.

I know you guys don't want to call them insurrections because facing that hard reality will blow all of your beliefs out of the water.  So that's why you keep calling them "riots" - to somehow make the seem less than what happened on Jan 6th.  They weren't.  It was an insurrection against our government.

And the BLM/Antifa insurrections were much more deadly, brutal and loss of businesses than Jan. 6th EVER was.

Free your mind.
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Link where anyone at all on the internet called summer protests insurrections prior to Jan 6th. 

 
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BigJim® said:
Do you recognize the irony of describing conservatism as a fluctuating thing?
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No, not even a little. The majority people who define thmselves  get to decide who is a "true conservative". I see how it's changed over the last 50 years.  Are you denying that most people who say they are conservativse now, are die hard Trumpers?

 
Insomniac said:
No, not even a little. The majority people who define thmselves  get to decide who is a "true conservative". I see how it's changed over the last 50 years.  Are you denying that most people who say they are conservativse now, are die hard Trumpers?
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Wut

Perhaps you mean Republican?

 
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