Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives


Recommended Posts

I just don’t get the logic. Even if you love the guy, there has to be some opportunity to move down a little and pick up a 3rd/4th. They can’t always be in a position where they can’t find a trade partner like they said when they grabbed Ferrel early.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

This is why I can’t stand Gruden.  The LV D is awful.  There are holes all over so Gruden reaches for a OT.  

I don't really agree. We have two holes. RT and FS. 

I think we got players on the D line. We have starting LBs that can play. I don't think there is a FS worth getting there. Tackles are a 1st round position and we needed one. 

Could we have gone JOK to upgrade LB? Yes but it wouldn't have filled a need like this does. We really didn't have a RT. We otherwise would have had to send Good to RT. Now we can keep Good where he us really good at G and fill that RT. 

I don't know enough about the player to say one way or another but the position pick makes sense.

  • Like 1
  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Was Gruden in the draft room? I didn't see him

Gruden is probably watching Netflix at home.  He can’t actually be trying to make good picks.  His picks since coming to the Raiders have been awful at best.  

 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I don't really agree. We have two holes. RT and FS. 

I think we got players on the D line. We have starting LBs that can play. I don't think there is a FS worth getting there. Tackles are a 1st round position and we needed one. 

Could we have gone JOK to upgrade LB? Yes but it wouldn't have filled a need like this does. We really didn't have a RT. We otherwise would have had to send Good to RT. Now we can keep Good where he us really good at G and fill that RT. 

I don't know enough about the player to say one way or another but the position pick makes sense.

You crack me up. No matter who Gruden chose, you were going to like it.  It’s over Chad.  Gruden is gone in two seasons.   

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Was Gruden in the draft room? I didn't see him

He was not visible. There was ZERO energy, visible in the room. Mayock was walking around. There seemed to be no excitement. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I don't really agree. We have two holes. RT and FS. 

I think we got players on the D line. We have starting LBs that can play. I don't think there is a FS worth getting there. Tackles are a 1st round position and we needed one. 

Could we have gone JOK to upgrade LB? Yes but it wouldn't have filled a need like this does. We really didn't have a RT. We otherwise would have had to send Good to RT. Now we can keep Good where he us really good at G and fill that RT. 

I don't know enough about the player to say one way or another but the position pick makes sense.

You’re right.  It was a position of need.

But they ####ed up that pick.  Badly  

Leatherwood could have been had with their 2nd pick. 

Just awful. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

He was not visible. There was ZERO energy, visible in the room. Mayock was walking around. There seemed to be no excitement. 

How could there be energy?   The staff probably had 15 to 30 players ranked higher than Leatherhead but know they have to use Grudens list that he scribbled on a napkin, which only includes players from Clemson or Bama.  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Laughing 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DocHolliday said:

You crack me up. No matter who Gruden chose, you were going to like it.  It’s over Chad.  Gruden is gone in two seasons.   

I didn't say I liked it. 

I am consistent. Way before the draft I have been saying we had two holes, RT and FS. 

Edited by Chadstroma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Chadstroma said:

I didn't say I liked it. 

I am consistent. Way before the draft I have saying we had two holes, RT and FS. 

But you don’t draft a player in the first round you can draft in the second round.  You take the BPA for one of the many positions of need.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gruden MO is to reach for need. Leatherwood might be a fine player, even worthy of mid 1st rd eventually. Still not smart to not trade down a few slots to take him, especially in a draft deep in OT talent.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DocHolliday said:

But you don’t draft a player in the first round you can draft in the second round.  You take the BPA for one of the many positions of need.  

Just like Kolton Miller. Horrible pick, reach, "lots of teams have him later" or maybe not a LT. I remember that pick being destroyed. 

It isn't sexy, that is for dang sure. Is it a bad pick? I don't know. I love Good at G now. If he ends up like Miller but at RT, I will be very happy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Haters are gonna hate that pick "because mocks" but I'll tell you what that dude was a BEAST early on in his career.  I don't know what the details are of his decline but his talent level is through the roof and if he can even approach returning to form we got a huge win.  Jokers whined about Miller three years ago with the exact same rant and now we're singing praises that we just locked up our LT for the next decade.

Edited by Hankmoody
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LawFitz said:

Gruden MO is to reach for need. Leatherwood might be a fine player, even worthy of mid 1st rd eventually. Still not smart to not trade down a few slots to take him, especially in a draft deep in OT talent.

Here is the thing I hate about the trade back... 

You need a partner. I remember the Raiders trading back in the past and not getting a lot out of it and guess what? Fans blasted them for bot getting the value out of the pick. If you find a report of someone offering a trade of value to move back a few spots and we turned it down... I will get my pitchfork with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The value is bad. Thats on Mayock. 

I know, you liked listening to his sweet lisp on NFL Network. Me too. Everyone likes Mayock. But it's his job to operate the draft, and get value. 

As much to blame as Gruden. So sick of him getting a pass. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Chadstroma said:

Here is the thing I hate about the trade back... 

You need a partner. I remember the Raiders trading back in the past and not getting a lot out of it and guess what? Fans blasted them for bot getting the value out of the pick. If you find a report of someone offering a trade of value to move back a few spots and we turned it down... I will get my pitchfork with you.

Then you take the freaking safety, or Jaelen Philips. You don't reach like that

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

Just like Kolton Miller. Horrible pick, reach, "lots of teams have him later" or maybe not a LT. I remember that pick being destroyed. 

It isn't sexy, that is for dang sure. Is it a bad pick? I don't know. I love Good at G now. If he ends up like Miller but at RT, I will be very happy. 

Miller was rated higher.  But that’s not the point. Leatherwood would have been available in the 2nd. 

He’s a reach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get the whole “gotta have a dance partner” argument when we don’t trade down. But how is that the argument every year? We reach every year.

Outland Trophy winner and will probably end up a solid pro but just once I want to see them get incredible value instead of virtually everyone saying WTF!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Bruno2 said:

Maybe they got him confused with someone who can cover Travis Kelce? 🤔

The raiders haven’t covered a TE in 15 years. I pick TE’s, in daily ff, that are playing against the raiders. Winning!

  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

 that dude was a BEAST early on in his career.  I don't know what the details are of his decline 

I need more info. Do you have anything?  

Typical. Take a dude that has unknown problems in the 1st round. 🤬

Edited by DA RAIDERS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Atomic Punk said:

I get the whole “gotta have a dance partner” argument when we don’t trade down. But how is that the argument every year? We reach every year.

Outland Trophy winner and will probably end up a solid pro but just once I want to see them get incredible value instead of virtually everyone saying WTF!

I'd rather they be right than make Mel Kiper happy.  Gareon Conley was a great value and look how that turned out for us.  All I care is that we get the pick right - if he turns out to be a really good player that's way more important that taking "value" and getting that wrong then missing the opportunity cost waiting for the next pick.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

I'd rather they be right than make Mel Kiper happy.  Gareon Conley was a great value and look how that turned out for us.  All I care is that we get the pick right - if he turns out to be a really good player that's way more important that taking "value" and getting that wrong then missing the opportunity cost waiting for the next pick.

Agreed. 

But no one else reached. No one. 

The Falcons needed defense. They took the best player. 

Raiders fell in love with their guy, and didn't care that no one ranks him there. Smart teams get their guy, and a 3rd and a 4th

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, massraider said:

Agreed. 

But no one else reached. No one. 

The Falcons needed defense. They took the best player. 

Raiders fell in love with their guy, and didn't care that no one ranks him there. Smart teams get their guy, and a 3rd and a 4th

agree with both.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, but how often have they been right? Aside from Kolton, almost every pick from this FO is questionable and most cause the masses to raise their eyebrows wondering what the heck just happened.

Jenkins, Cosmi, Radunz are all rated better or equal to Leatherwood and are all still on the board and I haven’t even mentioned any D yet. It just seems like we always leave value on the table ... every year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, massraider said:

On the other hand, we would have loved JOK or Moehrig, and neither is a 1st rounder. 

Yet

The fact that no other team pounced on either one of these guys after the Raiders passed on them shows they weren't worthy of 1st round picks.

That being said...

I understand the Raiders need interior OL help but they always reach for their "guys", every year.  Doesn't matter who's in charge, from the days of Al drafting DHB to now, it just doesn't make any sense. 

Now if this were a winning organization, the draft strategy would have merit. Its been 19 years since their last playoff win, their way isn't working. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leatherwood is a prospect that’s had experience at both guard and offensive tackle. Containing a towering and filled-out frame in many areas, he has adequate strength as a run blocker as he’s able to attach and drive defenders out of desired areas. His aggressiveness is a key ingredient to success in the run game, as he can completely overpower targets that he’s able to square up and land his body cleanly on. As a pass protector, Leatherwood has a clean pass set that’s able to gain ground up the field in order to stymie rushers that simply attack him vertically. His issues come against wise rushers that have the flexibility to alter and change their thought processes mid-rep. Leatherwood has stiffness in his lower half that doesn’t allow him to match the quick movements from twitchy edge defenders, which forces him into performing panic techniques by lunging and placing all of his weight forward. While Leatherwood has a wealth of experience at offensive tackle, his better long-term outlook may be at guard because of the limitations in his lower body. Still, the team that drafts him should experiment with him at offensive tackle to test his development and consistency there, but his upside could be greater at guard where his room to operate is condensed—which can mask some of the deficiencies contained in his lower body.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overview

Leatherwood has projectable traits, solid athleticism and position versatility, but suffers from a failure to consistently execute at a high level due to issues that might be correctable. He sees the game well and works to stay balanced and composed in pass sets, but struggles with ranging and redirecting at the top of the rush. He doesn't have a very strong outside hand in pass pro, but his length could become a more formidable tool with a change in approach. He's a positional run blocker who lacks knock-back power but is capable of operating in any run scheme. Teams will need to determine if he's a guard or tackle, but an upgrade in aggressiveness is needed in order to become a good NFL lineman.

Strengths

Looks the part with well-proportioned frame and long arms.

Offers experience and roster flexibility at either guard or tackle.

Can bend and leverage at point of attack.

Athletic in his movements.

Can operate effectively in outside zone and for screen blocks.

Kick-slides are good and bring him to proper depth.

Base width rarely fails him in pass pro.

Able to unlock hips and sink against bull-rusher.

Length can discombobulate rush plan when punch is well-timed.

Diligent to protect inside post in pass sets.

Can open hips and recover when edge is assaulted at the top of the rush.

Weaknesses

Mechanical and lacking explosion into initial contact.

Needs to guard against long initial lateral steps in run game.

Athletic but movement lacks twitch in tight quarters.

Needs to improve play strength contact balance.

Doesn't play with consistent fire and passion as finisher.

Punch needs to punish and not push the enemy.

Would benefit from attacking rushers earlier with his length.

Slows feet prematurely against speed rushers.

Needs better hand positioning in general.

Disappointing power to separate and redirect when rush hits his edge.

Sources Tell Us


"I thought he was pretty much the same player he was last year. He's long and has some athleticism but he just doesn't get me excited even though we need a tackle." -- Area scout for NFC team

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leatherwood doesn't have quite the athleticism you'd want from a top-tier tackle, but he makes up for it with length and strength.

PROS

Tree trunks for arms. When he locks them out, defenders are doomed.

Very stout lower half. Can be a true line-of-scrimmage mover. 14 big-time blocks last year.

Knows how to use length to his advantage. Like a Venus flytrap closing on defenders.

Pro-ready depth in his pass sets. Nice, balanced kick slide.

CONS

Plays with a ridiculously wide base. Limits agility and recovery ability.

Gets cornered far too easily. A little stiff-hipped.

Struggles to locate at the second level. Quick linebackers gave him problems.

Tendency to lurch into contact rather than drive feet. Leads to too many whiffs.

SUMMARY

Leatherwood played high school football for head coach Charlie Ward, a former Heisman Trophy winner, at Booker T. Washington High School in Pensacola, Florida. Leatherwood was a five-star prospect and considered one of the elite offensive line prospects in the nation. He played in the Under Armour All-America Game, attended Nike’s “The Opening” and the Rivals100 Five-Star Challenge.

Leatherwood was named to the first-team Parade All-American Team and the second team of USA Today’s All-USA team. He was ranked No. 4 in the Rivals100 and the No. 1 offensive tackle in the class. ESPN ranked him No. 8 in the ESPN 300 and the No. 3 offensive tackle in the class. He ranked No. 8 in the PrepStar 150 Dream Team and No. 9 in the Scout300. Leatherwood selected Alabama over Florida, Florida State, LSU, Michigan and Tennessee.

Leatherwood started his career inside at Alabama before kicking out to his natural left tackle spot as a redshirt sophomore. He’s put together two quality seasons since then. Leatherwood is a distinctly different type of tackle coming out of Alabama than 2020 first-rounder Jedrick Wills. Wills did his best work in space, while Leatherwood does his in a phone booth. Leatherwood wins with his length and ability to forklift opposing defenders. Even without high-end athleticism, that can suffice at tackle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7. Alex Leatherwood, Alabama (6-foot-4½, 312, 5.01, Round 2): From Pensacola, Fla., Leatherwood started 41 of 48 games over four seasons.

“I think he’s got to be a right tackle or a guard,” said one scout. “Big, powerful man. Moved well for a big guy. He worked out better than I thought. There’s some similarities between him and Andrus Peat, thick-boned guys who could play tackle but are really good guards.”

Played 44 snaps in the 2017 national title game when left tackle Jonah Williams was injured. Started at right guard in 2018 and at left tackle the past two years.

“He’ll play,” a second scout said. “You love his length (34-inch arms) … but he doesn’t play that strong and doesn’t have a lot of grit to him. He just kind of does everything OK, OK, OK, nothing elite. Someone may fall in love with him just because it’s an Alabama offensive lineman. Every year they don’t do anything, but every year we keep taking ’em. He falls in line with a lot of those ’Bama guys of the past.”

Led the tackles in the vertical jump (34½) and broad jump (9-10).

“They say he’s smart, but during games he seems to lose concentration and has all these penalties,” another scout said. “More talented than Jonah Williams. Really a nice athlete.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony Pauline’s Alex Leatherwood Scouting Report

Positives: Athletic left tackle prospect with a large upside. Sets with a wide base, blocks with leverage, and stays square. Fires off the snap into blocks, keeps his head on a swivel, and displays excellent blocking vision. Explosive, quick out to the second level, and easily adjusts to hit a moving target.

Displays solid footwork off the edge and terrific lateral blocking range. Gets his hands into pass rushers, riding them from their angles of attack. Agile, mobile, and keeps his feet moving. Makes excellent use of blocking angles. Quick and fluid pulling across the line of scrimmage and blocking in motion.

Featured | NFL Draft Prospects 2021: Pauline’s updated big board, player rankings

Negatives: Must improve his overall strength at the point. Rarely finishes blocks. Does not always play with a nasty attitude.

Analysis: Leatherwood showed flashes of dominance in 2019, but I was disappointed he did not progress at the rate I thought possible last season. He’s a natural left tackle with the footwork and movement skills to be used in a zone-blocking system, but Leatherwood must get stronger and compete to finish blocks on every down.

Alex Leatherwood Player Profile

Senior Bowl Performance

Alex Leatherwood was one of the higher-rated players at the 2021 Reese’s Senior Bowl. However, he wasn’t as consistent as his high billing demanded. Leatherwood had some good reps, courtesy of his overwhelming length and functional power. That said, he struggled to deal with quick rushers around the edge at times, and his one-on-one losses might have exposed a lack of elite raw power. Leatherwood’s power is more a product of his length, which serves as an effective conduit. That said, he can still get stronger.

Leatherwood is still a solid prospect with a relatively high range, but the Senior Bowl helped quantify his limitations, and strengthened the calls to move him to guard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bruno2 said:

Now if this were a winning organization, the draft strategy would have merit. Its been 19 years since their last playoff win, their way isn't working. 

a million times this. Scoreboard...as in we look at the scoreboard and we're always losing.

ugh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the player. Sounds like a plug & play at RT or RG. Yes, it's need. Yes, it was a reach. Still sounds like a solid prospect to come in and start and play well from go. Let's see which three players tomorrow brings.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LawFitz said:

I like the player. Sounds like a plug & play at RT or RG. Yes, it's need. Yes, it was a reach. Still sounds like a solid prospect to come in and start and play well from go. Let's see which three players tomorrow brings.

agreed.  just think he could have been had on day 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DA RAIDERS said:

Mayock was walking around. There seemed to be no excitement. 

Mayock once again trying to be the smartest guy in the room.  Seems like a reach there for sure, but some sites are giving it pretty good grades so who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, FreshiZ said:

High character guy

Awesome.   He can watch the playoffs from home or the library instead of a bar.  

This would have been a solid pick in round 2.  The Raiders simply don’t know how to work the draft.  They are the only team that can’t slide back a few picks instead of reaching.  Every year.  Even the Eagles and Boys figured out a way to swap picks.  

The Raiders will finish 3rd at best in the AFC W this year.  You can’t miss on 90% of your draft picks and FA signings year and win in the NFL.   

  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all of the scouting reports @massraider

I’ve slept on it and am sticking to my original position - good, solid pick but they could have done better.

There is great depth at OT this year and I just believe they could have: a) traded back to gain some value; or b) went Defense at 17 and taken one of the remaining 3-4 OTs that are similarly ranked as Leatherwood.

I’m done whining ... on to round two and cheering my team on like I do every year!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Hankmoody changed the title to ☠ ☠ ☠ Official 2021 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☠ ☠ ☠ - only 3.5 more months of talking about draft reaches until real football arrives

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
  • Create New...