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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Kadarius Toney, Giants


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6 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

I don't think there is anything wrong with the pre-draft slotting, but what you're describing is why I made trades to try and get out of the 20's (we also do IDP). Someone needs to be picked 22nd, but I think it's possible (probable?) that guys picked 32nd aren't much different wrt value. I think there's going to be a tier drop around pick 21-23 then it's a muddled mess into the 30's. That said, I think there are a couple guys going in the top 20 (like Toney) that I won't rank there come May 1 and there will probably be a couple guys outside of it that I'd consider not trading away from (like Williams).

Yeah, I haven't watched all of the guys yet, but the tier break at around that point is something to look at now that you mention it. I actually see some guys I think are slotted too low that I'd value more as second rounders with mad potential than getting a WR like, say, a Surratt or Toney. I know you do IDP, too, so I'm not sure who you've got in there from a defensive standpoint, but yeah, I can see the tier break around then. Thankfully ( somewhat ruefully looking at your tier break) I have 22 and 23, too. I'd probably have one or two guys slotted ahead of where they are now (or maybe should be) and the break happens for me at like 25 or 26, but again, I haven't sat and done that. I'll probably do that after the draft.

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2021 NFL draft film room: Florida WR Kadarius Toney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1n2ShpUAVg&t=318s Fairly silly highlights. He gets hilariously open on these juke routes.  

The NFL was also saying Riley Ridley was potentially a 1st rounder, or the fact that Van Jefferson was a 2nd rounder... They routinely get things wrong. Diggs being a 5th rounder as well as a good exa

Just now, rockaction said:

Yeah, I haven't watched all of the guys yet, but the tier break at around that point is something to look at now that you mention it. I actually see some guys pretty slotted too low that I'd value more as second rounders with mad potential than getting a WR like, say, a Surratt or Toney. I know you do IDP, too, so I'm not sure who you've got in there from a defensive standpoint, but yeah, I can see the tier break around then. Thankfully ( somewhat ruefully looking at your tier break) I have 22 and 23, too. I'd probably have one or two guys slotted ahead of where they are now (or maybe should be) and the break happens for me at like 25 or 26, but again, I haven't sat and done that. I'll probably do that after the draft.

The top of this IDP class is light. Whether the rest of it is deep or not and when to target them depends on the league. I loaded up on mid round picks in one (53 active + 10 taxi) but purged them in another (keep 35 + 5 round draft).

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

The top of this IDP class is light. Whether the rest of it is deep or not and when to target them depends on the league. I loaded up on mid round picks in one (53 active + 10 taxi) but purged them in another (keep 35 + 5 round draft).

Thanks. I'm looking at the linebackers and only one really sticks out to me. The other seems like his position is up in the air (and I'm not wasting a second-rounder to find out he's a safety) and the rest have holes, it seems. Depends really where they go in the draft. The D-Line I'm barely looking at because I don't have picks in the range of the top ones and I'm not wasting again, a second rounder on a guy that might make it on defense. Don't need the help enough in the scoring format I play under. I think Zealots is a little light on the defensive scoring even though it's heavy on the amount of players used. Linebackers are really key. DBs are replacebale, and D-Line scores light compared to the offense.

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36 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Receiver or chanteuse?

These days, you never know.

And I wouldn't reach like that but I don't pick again until he's surely gone in the fifth. In that league I have 4, 5, 16, 20, 22, 23. then no third or fourth rounder to speak of. :(

Used them in addressing different needs. Rather have six in the first two than two in the first two.

Why not both but yes exactly 

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I don't know how this guy is going to go early in rookie drafts if everybody hates him. From the sounds of folks, independent of landing spot he will be there at the end of the 2nd early 3rd. It doesn't sound like too many people would go for him even if he gets drafted high.

Serious question, how high are you willing to take Toney if you need WRs (I don't know how that is possible) if he gets drafted in the 1st round of the NFL draft? Not saying that is or isn't likely to happen. 

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

I don't know how this guy is going to go early in rookie drafts if everybody hates him. From the sounds of folks, independent of landing spot he will be there at the end of the 2nd early 3rd. It doesn't sound like too many people would go for him even if he gets drafted high.

Serious question, how high are you willing to take Toney if you need WRs (I don't know how that is possible) if he gets drafted in the 1st round of the NFL draft? Not saying that is or isn't likely to happen. 

I don't start thinking about questions like this until day 3 of the draft, but I would give him stronger consideration if a good team picked him late round 1.

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On 4/17/2021 at 12:44 PM, MAC_32 said:

I don't start thinking about questions like this until day 3 of the draft, but I would give him stronger consideration if a good team picked him late round 1.

He's still very hard for me to gauge for fantasy.   His thin build, limited route running ability (so far), and troubles at the line of scrimmage may limit his ceiling in the NFL. We're probably looking at a guy that at best, is a decent NFL WR 3, not fantasy WR3, playing the slot.

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2021 NFL Draft: Ja'Marr Chase, Kyle Pitts headline Next Gen Stats' can't-miss prospects

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Kadarius Toney, WR Florida - 22 years old 

Production Score: 81

Athleticism Score: 99

OVERALL DRAFT SCORE: 92

PRO BOWL PROBABILITY: 13%

The final name on this list of 2021 can't-miss prospects is actually more of a borderline first-rounder than the rest. While Jeremiah had Toney making the cut in his first two mock drafts, the Florida playmaker isn't among the top 32 selections in Version 3.0. Still, I wanted to bend the rules set out in the introduction of this file a bit because the numbers suggest Toney could be a good one. So, let's call this the wild card of the list. Toney was limited to only one full season as a starter at Florida -- as a senior in 2020 -- in part due to injuries and a loaded depth chart. When Toney was given a bigger role in the offense last season, the Alabama native made the most of the opportunity. The dynamic all-purpose contributor made plays as a receiver, in the running game and as a return specialist, showing off elite run-after-catch ability whenever he touched the football. The uber-athlete is one of only two receivers in this year's class (alongside Ja'Marr Chase) to earn a max 99 athleticism score, driven by elite numbers posted in the 40-yard dash (4.37), broad jump (11 feet, 4 inches) and vertical leap (39.5 inches) at Florida's pro day on March 31st. The last Gators wide receiver to enter the draft with an athleticism score over 82? Percy Harvin in 2009 (89 athleticism score).

 

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Those asked to describe Toney's game typically answer the same way: Guarding him in the open field is futile.

"I've yet to see someone cover him one-on-one in the open field," Florida quarterback Kyle Trask said.

That has pretty much been the case for years now. Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy remembers hearing about Toney's legend as a prep quarterback in 2018. Nagy was moving to Senior Bowl headquarters in Mobile, Alabama, where stories spread about Toney at nearby Blount High School, "stopping on a dime in a way you can't coach." Three years later, Nagy watched Toney break off defensive backs in Senior Bowl one-on-ones by 5 to 10 yards of separation. "One hesitation and he's gone," Nagy said.

Toney became a master at shaking defenders at Florida, with him and Alabama's DeVonta Smith trading highlight-reel plays each week in the SEC.

Though primarily a slot receiver in Florida, with 78% of his routes coming from the inside, Toney also rushed the ball 19 times for 161 yards, ranking among the top five nationally in touches (89), scrimmage yards (1,145), TDs (11) and yards after first contact (297).

On a particular play against Ole Miss, Toney hit light speed on five Rebels defenders surrounding him on a simple jet-motion, one-cut handoff. What should have been a 2-yard gain went for 50. One AFC scout compared him to another Florida great, Percy Harvin, which is good news for advanced offenses that scheme up touches for players who win in space. Harvin went 22nd overall in the 2009 draft, and many mock drafts have Toney in the 18-to-30 range.

"Teams are excited for how they might use me," said Toney, who has had productive Zoom meetings with the Arizona Cardinals, Detroit Lions, the 49ers, Jacksonville Jaguars, Washington Football Team and more. "Most of them see me as a slot receiver and returner. But I have a lot of experience taking the ball out of the backfield. I'm open to all of it."

That San Francisco is talking to Toney is buzzworthy, considering what the team just did with Deebo Samuel.

The 49ers drafted Samuel in the second round of the 2019 draft and turned him into a yards-after-possession demon. As a rookie, he averaged 13.5 yards per touch, including three rushing touchdowns on 14 carries.

"Deebo opened eyes for players like [Toney] -- like, look what you can do with him," Nagy said.

But Nagy is quick to point out that while Toney can handle the jet sweeps and the boomerang running plays, he is a tough slot receiver at the core.

The Gators didn't scheme Toney deep that often, with eight of his 87 targets traveling 20-plus yards downfield. He still forced an SEC-high 21 missed tackles on mostly short-to-intermediate work.

Toney has the mentality of a feisty corner. He wants a challenge, wants contact.

"He plays so much bigger and stronger and he's so competitive," Nagy said. "He's so much stronger on contact than most guys his size. His mindset and strength are what set him apart. He has the joystick ability and can rip under stuff.

"To call him a gadget guy is almost insulting."

Toney doesn't care about gadgets, as long as the ball finds his hands. Toney's game is far from a finished product. Some scouts want to see more refined route running, citing choice routes at Florida that gave Toney options to beat defenders in the moment. At the pro level, he'll need more precision on his routes, the scouts said. One scout questioned the reliability of his hands.

But Toney says he's eager for that challenge, and his days as a high school quarterback taught him to "learn every detail" and "grab the whole playbook."

"I try to put myself through all situations mentally so that when the game comes, I go out there and play free," Toney said. "I envision the defense I'm going to see. I lock in. And with my quickness and my bend, being able to move the way I do, I can handle what I planned to see."

There's a flip side scouts see, too: A special athlete like this shouldn't have his creativity hampered. Asking Toney to run rigid routes all game might take away from the freaky things he can do in one-on-ones.

The wildest thing that happened at Florida's pro day was a busted broad jump that said everything about Toney's ability. Toney's first attempt was 10 feet, 4 inches, which is not impressive. But he jumped up and out instead of in a straight line. After a coach admonished him, he regrouped to jump 11-4. But clearing 10 feet with a Gateway Arch trajectory on that first attempt is silly.

Those who coached Toney's elite burst in college can't wait to see what he does with an NFL playbook.

"He's scratching the surface of what he's going to become at the next level," Florida head coach Dan Mullen said. "He keeps erasing every question people have about him everywhere he goes."

 

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: WR Kadarius Toney, Giants
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Giants selected Florida WR Kadarius Toney with the No. 20 overall pick in the 2021 NFL Draft.

New York landed Toney after trading down from No. 11. He'll join a low-key solid receiver group, alongside Kenny Golladay, Sterling Shepard, and Darius Slayton. In other words, Daniel Jones has no excuses in 2021. A converted dual-threat quarterback who was responsible for 120 total touchdowns during his prep career, Toney (5'11/193) was listed as an “athlete” on Florida's depth chart and only began learning the wide receiver position over his last 18 games at Florida. While he remains unpolished, he's perpetually one catch away from breaking a defense and proved as much at the Gators' pro day with sterling numbers in the 40-yard dash (4.37), broad jump (11'4) and vertical leap (39.5"). Toney sported a 96th percentile burst score. With experience as Florida's featured punt and kick returner in 2020, Toney will find ways onto the field for the Giants. 

Apr 29, 2021, 10:44 PM ET

 

 

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I hate the pick and rather would have had Darrishaw. Giants have tons of WRs that Jason Garrett will mismanage. Quoting for truth:

On 3/2/2021 at 12:20 PM, Gatorman said:

That's not 100% true.  Toney was a "weapon" but not really a WR.  This past year he was the "take it to the house guy" and the Deebo comparison is likely correct.  Problem with him (and Pitts to be honest) is they don't pigenhole to the position they are called.  Pitts is a WR/TE and Toney is a WR/RB/Athlete.  The Shanny and McVays of the world will unlock his potential, but a "standard" offensive system will not really work for him.  Carolina, Chicago, SF, LAR, Buf, and maybe new england are the right landing spots for him.  Miami, Pitt, Denver and other more "rigid offensive systems" are likely not his optimal landing spots (Arizona too.  He has the tools to be a playmaker in that type of system but I think he'd get lost in the shuffle)

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