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Hershel Walker makes statement "No reparations for black people"


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Look guys, I know this is a sensitive topic that brings up issues thorny issues from the past, especially the way one of group of people blatantly oppressed another group.  But the fact of the matter

I think there are fair arguments for reparations, obviously.  I'm opposed to them for a number of reasons, mostly practical.  Who gets them and who doesn't, for starters.  Do you have to be able to tr

I'm sure this is one of those memes that has become truth for a number of folks.  You can't cancel him by calling him racist (the standard reason for publicly discounting a dissenting opinion), so men

1 hour ago, Summer Wheat said:

From the link:

Quote

Concluding his opening statement, he said:

"I feel it continues to let us know we're still African American, rather than just American. Reparation or atonement is outside the teaching of Jesus Christ."

Not the most persuasive argument for those still undecided on the issue. 

Edited by squistion
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10 hours ago, Roy L Fewks said:

Pretty much. I don't need to be lectured by athletes or mentally ill people, and Herschel is both.

I agree.  I don`t want to be lectured by an athlete, a band member or an actor.

Don`t follow Walker.  Las thing I heard about him he was in MMA.

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I was just talking with my dad about reparations.  He's a staunch Democrat and is totally against them because we are French Canadian and none of our ancestors ever owned slaves (at least not on this side of the pond I guess). 

I just said "well do you want to buy votes or don't you?"  He's like "yeah I didn't really think about it like that."  I said "never believe that the stated purpose of something is the actual purpose, especially in politics."  
 

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11 hours ago, Da Guru said:

Should that hold true for all athletes?

I don't think being an athlete makes  a person any more or less stupid than the average person.  They have a bigger platform but I don't think occupation should qualify or disqualify an opinion.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

I don't think being an athlete makes  a person any more or less stupid than the average person.  They have a bigger platform but I don't think occupation should qualify or disqualify an opinion.  

 

I agree..I take their opinion the same way I do with my BIL`s or the lady who cuts my hair.   I am not the one who said HW should not have an opinion on politics.

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

I agree..I take their opinion the same way I do with my BIL`s or the lady who cuts my hair.

Exactly.  Some I agree with, some I don't.  

 

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Reparations is something that I think should happen but never will.

It’s long overdue especially considering that the government actually paid slave owners money for freed slaves as compensation for lost property. The slaves didn’t get a dime, but the slave owners did, how crazy is that? Also, the government gave away land to European immigrants but not freed slaves (Here is a clip of Dr. King touching on that) clip

 

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25 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I agree.  I don`t want to be lectured by an athlete, a band member or an actor.

 

I want to be lectured by everybody. I’ll take useful information and compelling arguments from wherever I can get it. 

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I think if you worked for someone and they didn't pay you - you should be able to get back payment for your work

I think using color of skin to make a claim on something that happened 150 year before they were alive is racist and one of the most bizarre concepts I've ever discussed.

 

the definition is  - the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.

Ok, the people doing those wrongs have been dead 150 years and those wrongs have been dead 150 years too

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Of course they deserve reparations- not just for slavery but for a century of Jim Crow. Hell, they deserve reparations for the way police and others in authority treat them right now

But as I wrote in the student debt thread- government policy shouldn’t be about justice or what people deserve, it should be about what benefits us as a society. I don’t believe it would benefit us as a society to throw cash at black people. But we should spend a lot more money improving public schools in black areas, providing more economic opportunity, and reforming our police in order to eradicate the institutionalized racism that continues to be such a problem. That’s the sort of reparations I favor, though it will never be enough. 

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

It’s long overdue especially considering that the government actually paid slave owners money for freed slaves as compensation for lost property. 

I fully support identifying these people and reclaiming this money.

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17 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

This a UGA joke?

I'm sure this is one of those memes that has become truth for a number of folks.  You can't cancel him by calling him racist (the standard reason for publicly discounting a dissenting opinion), so mentally ill is the next line down to marginalize his opinion.

Edited by Sand
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Reparations is something that I think should happen but never will.

It’s long overdue especially considering that the government actually paid slave owners money for freed slaves as compensation for lost property. The slaves didn’t get a dime, but the slave owners did, how crazy is that? Also, the government gave away land to European immigrants but not freed slaves (Here is a clip of Dr. King touching on that) clip

 

Well that was the discussion yesterday. 

Are the the great, great,great grandkids responsible for the sins of people in the 150-200 years ago? Also what about the people from the north who were not really involved in and abolished slavery in the eraly 1800s many decades before the south?  People of all races who came to this country 50-100 years after slavery was abolished?  It has such difficult dynamics to even try to begin to sort out.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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I have a problem with reparations that probably violates my liberal sensibility of fairness. :(

None of my ancestors set foot in this country until the 1880s when they settled in what is now North Dakota. It is hard for me to get into paying for the sins of slavery, etc., when none of my relations didn't get here until well after The Civil War.

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

I have a problem with reparations that probably violates my liberal sensibility of fairness. :(

None of my ancestors set foot in this country until the 1880s when they settled in what is now North Dakota. It is hard for me to get into paying for the sins of slavery, etc., when none of my relations didn't get here until well after The Civil War.

no different than treaties, war debt, other obligations which might have preceded your family's presence in the nation. 40 acres and a mule + 150 yrs interest (ETA: @3%, compounded annually - around 4000 acres and 100 mules. MLK's formula in the 60s, updated to today, around $8 trillion) is owed, was owed when y'all arrived. nufced

Edited by wikkidpissah
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I think there are fair arguments for reparations, obviously.  I'm opposed to them for a number of reasons, mostly practical.  Who gets them and who doesn't, for starters.  Do you have to be able to trace your lineage to a slave or is simply being black enough?  Seems pertinent.  I also question the fairness of it-my ancestors came here after slavery-though I'm less convinced that this is a good enough argument against.  As stated above, you sort of inherit the country's debts and obligations when you come here.  

In the end, I'm against reparations because I don't think it will have the healing effect that many argue it will.  Whatever racial resentment is out there will be further stoked by this policy and almost certainly pulling more people into the us v them crowd.  I also can see a not insignificant number of people parroting this as yet another example of white privilege, "if they think they can buy us off, they have another thing coming" kind of mentality that will again, only serve to disconnect and divide.  

Echoing the above comments, HW is not someone who should be leading the conversation on this.

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4 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

I think there are fair arguments for reparations, obviously.  I'm opposed to them for a number of reasons, mostly practical.  Who gets them and who doesn't, for starters.  Do you have to be able to trace your lineage to a slave or is simply being black enough?  Seems pertinent.  I also question the fairness of it-my ancestors came here after slavery-though I'm less convinced that this is a good enough argument against.  As stated above, you sort of inherit the country's debts and obligations when you come here.  

In the end, I'm against reparations because I don't think it will have the healing effect that many argue it will.  Whatever racial resentment is out there will be further stoked by this policy and almost certainly pulling more people into the us v them crowd.  I also can see a not insignificant number of people parroting this as yet another example of white privilege, "if they think they can buy us off, they have another thing coming" kind of mentality that will again, only serve to disconnect and divide.  

Echoing the above comments, HW is not someone who should be leading the conversation on this.

I frankly agree with the entirety of this post. I'd also add that it's not a good or persuasive argument against reparations that "Herschel Walker says they aren't necessary." 

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Look guys, I know this is a sensitive topic that brings up issues thorny issues from the past, especially the way one of group of people blatantly oppressed another group.  But the fact of the matter is that the Cowboys really do owe the Vikings some kind of reparations for the Herschel Walker trade.  That sort of injustice can't be allowed to stand.

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6 minutes ago, unckeyherb said:

In the end, I'm against reparations because I don't think it will have the healing effect that many argue it will.  Whatever racial resentment is out there will be further stoked by this policy and almost certainly pulling more people into the us v them crowd.  I also can see a not insignificant number of people parroting this as yet another example of white privilege, "if they think they can buy us off, they have another thing coming" kind of mentality that will again, only serve to disconnect and divide.  

Echoing the above comments, HW is not someone who should be leading the conversation on this.

Like all citizens HW can have his opinion and if he has the bully pulpit then so be it.  This is no different than the press that Rob Reiner gets or Jim Carey's drawings get.  Both of whom I believe are a bit :crazy:.

Frankly, instead of tunnels though Silicon Valley I'd have like to have seen a lot of the money in this stimulus moved to "financially disadvantaged uplift efforts".  The first objective of which should be a Manhattan Project on encouraging stable family units instead of the scourge of single parentage we have in lower income areas.  The blue team has shown their complete disdain for assisting these disadvantaged communities with the absolute junk thrown into this stimulus.

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8 minutes ago, IvanKaramazov said:

Look guys, I know this is a sensitive topic that brings up issues thorny issues from the past, especially the way one of group of people blatantly oppressed another group.  But the fact of the matter is that the Cowboys really do owe the Vikings some kind of reparations for the Herschel Walker trade.  That sort of injustice can't be allowed to stand.

Now this makes some sense. 

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

I have a problem with reparations that probably violates my liberal sensibility of fairness. :(

None of my ancestors set foot in this country until the 1880s when they settled in what is now North Dakota. It is hard for me to get into paying for the sins of slavery, etc., when none of my relations didn't get here until well after The Civil War.

Hard to believe but I am going to have to give you a like on this one.  My ancestors did not set foot until the 1930s

Edited by Da Guru
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3 hours ago, timschochet said:

Of course they deserve reparations- not just for slavery but for a century of Jim Crow. Hell, they deserve reparations for the way police and others in authority treat them right now

none of them were slaves

white people, brown people, yellow people .... southern people .... lots of people are treated one way or the other - why would the Fed Govt taking taxpayer dollars and writing checks be deserving ?

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

But as I wrote in the student debt thread- government policy shouldn’t be about justice or what people deserve, it should be about what benefits us as a society.

And it was wrong then and it is wrong now. It's one philosophy. It's utilitarian, and doesn't take into account the other core competing philosophies behind governance. It's limited in its application. It happens to be that utility is the main concern with some key members of this board, but that's not the true picture of the just and the good in government. The just is not simply for the greatest good at all times. That's too narrow a window of concern.

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2 minutes ago, massraider said:
22 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Herschel Walker has been retired for 23 years. Why is this coming up in the news now?

Because he's black

Well, there was a House hearing on Reparations last week, and Walker was invited (presumably by Republicans) to speak at it. I just don't understand why Congress would choose him as a speaker on the issue in 2021. It tends to contradict the modern Republican narrative about celebrities and athletes who speak out on social issues. Also, it seems strange to me to pluck a long-retired, low-key player out of relative nowhere to offer his opinion. Are there no current athletes (or retired players with a history of activism or social prominence) who share his opinion?

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54 minutes ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, there was a House hearing on Reparations last week, and Walker was invited (presumably by Republicans) to speak at it. I just don't understand why Congress would choose him as a speaker on the issue in 2021. It tends to contradict the modern Republican narrative about celebrities and athletes who speak out on social issues. Also, it seems strange to me to pluck a long-retired, low-key player out of relative nowhere to offer his opinion. Are there no current athletes (or retired players with a history of activism or social prominence) who share his opinion?

I think Walker has been pretty active politically, at least recently, wasn't he a convention speaker.  Not sure his history before that.

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1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, there was a House hearing on Reparations last week, and Walker was invited (presumably by Republicans) to speak at it. I just don't understand why Congress would choose him as a speaker on the issue in 2021. It tends to contradict the modern Republican narrative about celebrities and athletes who speak out on social issues. Also, it seems strange to me to pluck a long-retired, low-key player out of relative nowhere to offer his opinion. Are there no current athletes (or retired players with a history of activism or social prominence) who share his opinion?

Would you prefer Charles Barkley?  If I remember right he has said about the same thing.

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20 hours ago, Summer Wheat said:

Agree 1000%.  It's a bad idea and a non-starter.

If you think racism is bad now, then wait until you try and pass this.  If you think disadvantaged families from any other race are going to take this sitting down I think you're sadly mistaken.  This may even be the tipping point to a race war or another civil war.

Smart people know that this is nothing but a money-grab and way to buy votes.  We already have policies in place to atone for slavery.  I think those are just as racist, but they are there.  At some point, we have to stop dwelling on this and move forward.  I think there are people (race hustlers) who are invested in NOT moving forward simply because they can milk the system.

And let's say we do give them reparations - what then?  Does the government then get to say "Okay, you've been paid back.  No more complaining."?  We're not just going to give out money with no strings attached.  We shouldn't.

Edited by BladeRunner
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13 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

Agree 1000%.  It's a bad idea and a non-starter.

If you think racism is bad now, then wait until you try and pass this.  If you think disadvantaged families from any other race are going to take this sitting down I think you're sadly mistaken.  This may even be the tipping point to a race war or another civil war.

After seeing what a bunch of chubby losers thought revolution looked like on January 6, I'm not scared of any talk of civil war.  

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Just now, massraider said:

After seeing what a bunch of chubby losers thought revolution looked like on January 6, I'm not scared of any talk of civil war.  

Hey, no problem.  But what you WON'T see is peace.  Guaranteed.  Call it whatever you want.

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8 minutes ago, Sand said:
1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, there was a House hearing on Reparations last week, and Walker was invited (presumably by Republicans) to speak at it. I just don't understand why Congress would choose him as a speaker on the issue in 2021. It tends to contradict the modern Republican narrative about celebrities and athletes who speak out on social issues. Also, it seems strange to me to pluck a long-retired, low-key player out of relative nowhere to offer his opinion. Are there no current athletes (or retired players with a history of activism or social prominence) who share his opinion?

Would you prefer Charles Barkley?  If I remember right he has said about the same thing.

Well, the main thing I would prefer is that the Republicans be consistent with their messaging, as it might inspire me to re-join the party. Do they want us to listen to celebrities and athletes, or not? If the answer is "Yes, but only when they say something we agree with", then it would tend to undermine their previous narratives against celebrities and athletes.

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1 hour ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, the main thing I would prefer is that the Republicans be consistent with their messaging, as it might inspire me to re-join the party. Do they want us to listen to celebrities and athletes, or not? If the answer is "Yes, but only when they say something we agree with", then it would tend to undermine their previous narratives against celebrities and athletes.

Please forgive me, but you hardly strike me as the guy that was once a Republican, Just waiting to come back to the party.

I mean, you're in here everyday defending every Democrat and their policies.  That's not what Republicans do regardless if they're upset with their party or not.

Edited by BladeRunner
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As I've delved deeper into American History and have been exposed to the manner in which familial wealth and opportunity were denied from Black families.....I'm one that has grown a bit more receptive to listening to the idea of reparations.  That being said, I don't know how one would go about bringing it about in a meaningful way. I don't really think a simple check cuts it.  

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32 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

As I've delved deeper into American History and have been exposed to the manner in which familial wealth and opportunity were denied from Black families.....I'm one that has grown a bit more receptive to listening to the idea of reparations.  That being said, I don't know how one would go about bringing it about in a meaningful way. I don't really think a simple check cuts it.  

For sure, and it's pretty appalling the measures that were taken to get us to this point.  Like you said, I am not sure how to go about it in a meaningful way since a lot of it was denial of property and house ownership, so giving everyone a check wouldn't touch that.  On top of that you have a few generations with the lack of ability to pass anything down as far as wealth so they are behind the eight ball as far as compound interest goes.   

What are $ amounts that are being floated as far as people who might be serious about reparations?  

Also a fantastic step in the right direction would be for the country to agree 100% that the bolded occurred.   We can't even agree on that in these threads, sadly.  

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31 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

For sure, and it's pretty appalling the measures that were taken to get us to this point.  Like you said, I am not sure how to go about it in a meaningful way since a lot of it was denial of property and house ownership, so giving everyone a check wouldn't touch that.  On top of that you have a few generations with the lack of ability to pass anything down as far as wealth so they are behind the eight ball as far as compound interest goes.   

What are $ amounts that are being floated as far as people who might be serious about reparations?  

Also a fantastic step in the right direction would be for the country to agree 100% that the bolded occurred.   We can't even agree on that in these threads, sadly.  

I don't think anyone denies black people got treated unfairly.  :shrug:

Not sure why sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, either, since none of us had anything to do with it.  Besides, we already have policies and legislation in place.  From grants, to quotas to affirmative action to the civil rights act to NUMEROUS other programs.  We have made atonements for past behavior. 

When can we move on from this focus on race?  Or do too many people (race hustlers) stand to lose too much money if we move on?  When will the lefty white-guilt be depleted?  Seriously, we need to move forward as a country, not backward.  Reparations move us into the "backward" category.

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3 hours ago, Sea Duck said:

Well, the main thing I would prefer is that the Republicans be consistent with their messaging, as it might inspire me to re-join the party. Do they want us to listen to celebrities and athletes, or not? If the answer is "Yes, but only when they say something we agree with", then it would tend to undermine their previous narratives against celebrities and athletes.

They were trying to convince democrats. The consultants told them to use a celebrity.

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

For sure, and it's pretty appalling the measures that were taken to get us to this point.  Like you said, I am not sure how to go about it in a meaningful way since a lot of it was denial of property and house ownership, so giving everyone a check wouldn't touch that.  On top of that you have a few generations with the lack of ability to pass anything down as far as wealth so they are behind the eight ball as far as compound interest goes.   

What are $ amounts that are being floated as far as people who might be serious about reparations?  

Also a fantastic step in the right direction would be for the country to agree 100% that the bolded occurred.   We can't even agree on that in these threads, sadly.  

Who are these Americans who had generations of wealth passed down?  Not me.  70 percent of Americans have less than $1000 in savings and nearly 80 percent live paycheck to paycheck.  There are more black millionaires in the US than the rest of the world combined, but yet somehow we are the great oppressors that owe reparations. 

Edited by jon_mx
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2 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

Who are these Americans who had generations of wealth passed down?  Not me.  70 percent of Americans have less than $1000 in savings and nearly 80 percent live paycheck to paycheck.  There are more black millionaires in the US than the rest of the world combined, but yet somehow we are the great oppressors that owe reparations. 

Yep. :thumbup:

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2 hours ago, Thunderlips said:

As I've delved deeper into American History and have been exposed to the manner in which familial wealth and opportunity were denied from Black families.....I'm one that has grown a bit more receptive to listening to the idea of reparations.  That being said, I don't know how one would go about bringing it about in a meaningful way. I don't really think a simple check cuts it.  

Wealth is denied from the poor regardless of race.

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It seems painfully naive to not see how this would inevitably strain race relations and lead to resentment. This will only worsen race relations in the foreseeable future. We have reparations in the form of social policy and programs such as affirmative action.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

For sure, and it's pretty appalling the measures that were taken to get us to this point.  Like you said, I am not sure how to go about it in a meaningful way since a lot of it was denial of property and house ownership, so giving everyone a check wouldn't touch that.  On top of that you have a few generations with the lack of ability to pass anything down as far as wealth so they are behind the eight ball as far as compound interest goes.   

70% of generational wealth is lost in the 2nd generation, 90% by the 3rd - i.e. the kids piss it away.  Cutting a check won't do much.

Lasting change comes from structural changes - good abstract talking about the cycle caused by the epidemic of fatherless homes.  When digging into the statistics they're staggering - the rates of education, crime, poverty, depression, suicide, are all positively correlated with single households.   I find it to be a tragic moral failure of this country that this hasn't been addressed.

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48 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

There are more black millionaires in the US than the rest of the world combined

Saw a good article a couple days ago - what it takes to be a 1%er in countries around the world.  Africa does not do well here (I'm sure there are many reasons for this and I don't pretend to know why - authoritarian regimes?).

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