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Why does discussing it with her have to be about convincing and arguing? It can't just be about intrigue and learning?
The purpose, as suggested by some earlier in the thread, is so you can get an idea of what she's experiencing since you expressed concern about what she's experiencing. Seems odd to express concern and then not be willing to see for yourself what's happening.
Not to mention "if you don't believe what we do and if you don't act like we do...you'll be tortured for eternity."
Yeah, I'd throw up a big red flag if this happened too. Are you under the impression that this is how it works?
Of course it's brainwashing - the techniques you described are textbook. But there's nothing you can do but be supportive and hope she doesn't get carried away with it.
I'd go just to avoid the "YOU DON'T GO THERE SO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, run off to her room and slam the door" reaction.
1. Because I'm not a Christian, don't believe in Christianity, and I'm afraid I couldn't listen to it for a long period of time without arguing against it.
I know you're probably pissed at me so I don't expect an answer, but generally speaking....how much time have you spent in the theology of the Bible and what did that time look like?
Christianity is a cult. The one running it is Paul. He died, but his words are still running it.
I wouldn't discuss the theology until I understood it. I'd follow all the advice I gave you because it's my belief that I am not in control of my child's heart. They are.
Fair question:
So really no actual study of the theology on your own, reading coming to your own conclusions? It sounds like everything you've exposed yourself to (at least in terms of the New Testament) has been through another individual? Is that a fair thing to say?
Don't mean to be patronizing. When it comes to this stuff, I'm blunt and to the point in a way that I think should be beneficial to you because if you're not all in on studying, it's never going to make sense. It's not merely an exercise in academics. The Bible isn't an answer book.
Is it?
Yes. Are you implying that the only way to properly understand the New Testament is to read it yourself, without the help of interpretation?
Not at all. The only way you're going to understand it is via prayer, reading and fellowship with others. The "fellowship with others" part takes many forms including other interpretations (even those that critically question the theology). What I typically find from the sources you have listed is that they themselves create a false narrative around the theology, then they proceed to attack that strawman as if that's the message being presented in scripture. It can be very dangerous, so if you're going to read those sources, I'd advise reading about the topic in the Bible and coming up with an opinion THEN going to see what others say.
I stated to you my firm belief that a person could achieve positive results from being religious, or simply having a belief in God, whether or not there actually IS a God. (Which is basically the same argument that Jayrod made when he stated that Christianity could be positive even from an atheistic perspective.) Rather than simply disagree with that POV, you wrote that it indicated that I am uninformed about Christianity and don't really understand it. That's what I found patronizing.
I was raised Christian, went to church every Sunday, read the Bible cover to cover, and came to the conclusion it's
Thanks. I butt heads with practically everyone- so what?
I wish I did. I kind of agree that she should be free to pursue what she wants to pursue. But my two issues with that are: 1) she's not an adult yet, so perhaps that needs to be exercised within reason; and 2) it doesn't sound like she pursued this. She was recruited.
Only because you "rejected the premise". That tells me (and you have since validated) that you aren't into the theology. I see nothing helpful you could provide your daughter in a theological discussion just like I would be of no help explaining the theology of satanism. Now, if you were suggesting that you were just going to talk about her experiences on a social level, I'm all in....I responded above that if my child was deciding to go with a Muslim friend, I'd absolutely go. I couldn't contribute theologically, but certainly could socially. If that was your point, I missed it and apologize for being unclear.
Fair enough....I was inferring sources like Dawkins etc from previous threads etc). I was wrong to assume guys like that were who you were talking about.
Of course....sin is runs rampant in all of us throughout the earth. I've never heard this though
You've never heard of Predestination?Of course....sin is runs rampant in all of us throughout the earth. I've never heard this though
In my experience, non-denomination churches tend to be "Bible believing" churches. Which means they typically take a very literal, black/white interpretation of the Bible. I don't know where The Commish goes to church, or what his church's doctrine is, but from what I've read in his posts, his church and/or doctrine would likely be very different than the church Tim's daughter is going to. I probably wouldn't be too concerned if Tim's daughter was attending The Commish's church, but the little he has shared about the church his daughter is going to has quickly raised red flags in my mind.
A few people have commented about this so I guess I should clarify that further. Of the Protestant churches, the more traditional ones (Methodists, Presbyterian, Lutheran, even Baptist) seem to be more "establishment" than these newer non-denominational churches. The latter seem a lot more- enthusiastic, if that makes any sense. Not sure I'm getting across what I mean, here.
I completely understand what you are saying, and will be nervous for my kids when they start exploring religion for the same reasons.
This is precisely my point...at 13 I would assume you've already talked at length about drugs, alcohol, smoking, sex, etc. No, you can't stop her from doing those things, but if you've given her the information in an open and respectful manner and left the door open to talk if she's ever confused or feels pressured, then you can rest assured you've done all you can. And if she's smart and a good kid, hopefully she will make the right decisions.Here she's already gone down a path you don't agree with. You're concerned about her getting brainwashed, and becoming judgmental, and pressuring the rest of the family to attend this church that teaches things you don't agree with. I don't understand why you wouldn't talk to her about your beliefs so that she hears another point of view at least. Maybe you can't talk her out of it. You're just arming her with information and showing her that the things she's being taught are not universally accepted truths. And if it were my daughter I would certainly warn her about things like coercion from adults in the church, and the corruption and abuse that takes place. These are very real concerns imo. How much do you know about the pastor, the staff and the volunteers who you are entrusting with your daughter's safety?
I agree with the recommendations to let her find her own way, however I disagree with your decision not to visit the church. You need to check out the church to get enough information so you can make the determination on if you need to interfere with her decision to attend, that's your duty as a parent. If you're afraid that would give her the impression then talk to her about it before had in very stark terms, i.e. "I'm going with you to the church to make sure it's a safe environment and to ensure that you're not getting involved in a cult".
I would discuss it with her. I'd guess there might be some arguing at some point, but I wouldn't necessarily enter the discussion with "arguing" as a main goal. I'd certainly visit the mosque with her on multiple occasions.
For someone who prides himself on his logic and presumably the logic that he has passed on this his daughter, I'm surprised Dawkins would be filled with so much fear of his daughter attending church.
So it's better to have a kid that is never exposed to religion? How can you then expect your kid to be "open-minded?"
I actually know that guy. True story.
