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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
- Start date
Kev4029
Footballguy
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Instinctive
Footballguy
Backup vs starter doesn't mean that much with Dallas.
Monta/Nelson/Harris forming the primary ball handling rotation is solid. Not world-beating, but solid.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I agree and I think (or at least hope) Van Gundy realizes that. If they could make a clean dump of Smith for expiring contracts they should do it in a heartbeat, but I doubt anyone wants to help them that much.pollardsvision said:
The Kings offer was reportedly Jason Thompson plus one of Derrick Williams/Jason Terry. Terry and Williams are expiring so that would be nice, but Thompson's still on the books for 3/19 and another big man who can't shoot wouldn't help the Pistons. Basically they'd only get rid of half of Smith's contract.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Plus I assume somebody in the organization has the balls to tell Thompson he's coming off the bench. Nobody was willing to do that with Smith.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
LOL at TWolves trolling their fans.
Timberwolves PR @Twolves_PR 12m
#Twolves making an announcement at 3:30 pm CT. Stay tuned to http://Timberwolves.com for more info.
Timberwolves PR @Twolves_PR 4m
Due to overwhelming demand, we'll go ahead & spill the news now: The #Twolves have signed forward Robbie Hummel. Welcome back, Robbie!
Timberwolves PR @Twolves_PR 12m
#Twolves making an announcement at 3:30 pm CT. Stay tuned to http://Timberwolves.com for more info.
Timberwolves PR @Twolves_PR 4m
Due to overwhelming demand, we'll go ahead & spill the news now: The #Twolves have signed forward Robbie Hummel. Welcome back, Robbie!
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
sad banana
Jason Lloyd @JasonLloydABJ 22s
Story going up soon on http://Ohio.com laying out trade landscape. Bottom line: #Cavs aren't getting Love without Wiggins. Period.
Jason Lloyd @JasonLloydABJ 22s
Story going up soon on http://Ohio.com laying out trade landscape. Bottom line: #Cavs aren't getting Love without Wiggins. Period.
Evilgrin 72
Distributor of Pain
I read in more than one place that Mirotic would have been the #1 pick in last year's draft and would have likely been 4th this year between Embiid and Exum. You could argue he's a better prospect than anyone Cleveland has besides Wiggins.sporthenry said:
Premier
Footballguy
awesome
Premier
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Eric Pincus @EricPincus about 8 minutes ago
Shannon Brown was waived by Knicks - I figured they'd keep him around to teach the triangle - but then not sure Brown ever really learned it
LOL
Shannon Brown was waived by Knicks - I figured they'd keep him around to teach the triangle - but then not sure Brown ever really learned it
LOL
Frostillicus
Footballguy
This is apparently a real possibility according to ESPN guy:
Seems ludicrous.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Cray cray. That was the pie-in-the-sky deal morning radio was going on about that I posted earlier. I mean, sign me up.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Why...that's basically what's been published all along with the side trade of Waiters and Martin for Young thown-in.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
If that deal goes down, and just to reiterate it seems crazy to me, would they have enough cap space to make a run at Bledsoe?
Frostillicus
Footballguy
It is? I was expecting best case would be Love for Wiggins, Bennett, and a #1. This way they're getting Young, an extra #1, and shedding Barea and Martin.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Thad is $9M, plus a player option for another $9 in 15
Bennett+Wiggins is about $11M
Martin/Barea/Love is $26ish
Assuming the 3 lumps are cut loose, that's about $6MM? So, not enough. Marion maybe...but doubt he wants to be here.
Mbah a Moute is an expiring $4M, which gets them to about $10M available...but not sure if they can buy him out or anything.
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biggamer3
Footballguy
REALLY? I had no idea he was that valued. If he really would have been a top 5 pick in this draft then Chicago is offering a ton for Klove. I actually thought he was just a decent role player at best.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
This is the 2nd straight day there's been a Love trade rumor that includes a 3rd team jumping in, ripping itself off, and ending up with Martin and Waiters.
I suspect the same guy started both of them and is just trolling the NBA world.
biggamer3
Footballguy
sporthenry
Footballguy
Young is burning a hole in Hinkie's pocket. Only asset left that definitely isn't in the long term plans. Thad doesn't have a ton of value with his contract. Chance to get a young guy in Waiters at a fairly weak position. Definitely buying pretty low on Waiters but don't think you are getting much more for Young.MCW/Waiters did play together for a year at 'Cuse although MCW didn't play a ton. Interesting to see if they can play together.
Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I agree with that Waiters would be a more useful player to the 76ers than Young, but why would they take Martin? He's more of a financial drain than Thad.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
You'd have to think that one of those 1sts would be going to Philly for eating Martin's contract. Don't think Waiters is valuable enough on his own for them to eat it.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Not sure which notion is more of a stretch.
That Cleveland management is making this decision or that they wouldn't do something this dumb if they were.
Kev4029
Footballguy
No way he would go ahead of Exum in the draft. Mirotic is 23.5 years old. If Chicago was that high on him, they wouldn't have brought in Gasol.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
sporthenry
Footballguy
Fair enough. I don't think the Martin contract is that bad. And the Sixers have to pay someone. I'm surprised they haven't eaten more contracts though so I guess Hinkie wants more flexibility than anything else. Martin and Waiters form a decent duo for the 2 spot. By the time the Sixers are thinking about competing, Martin will be in his last year. So either he is a nice veteran or an expiring contract to trade. I'd like more but what is Thad's value anyways? Seems like value is wildly arbitrary nowadays with the changing CBAs.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I won't predict where Mirotic would have gone but the Bulls are very high on him. Without question part of the appeal in getting Gasol was to be a mentor for Mirotic with the Spanish connection. Mirotic might not play major minutes this year as he learns the league and how to play Thibs-style defense, but certainly they see him as a big part of their future.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I have no doubt that they think he can be a good player and see him in their long range plan, but more Ryan Anderson than Dirk.
Short Corner
Footballguy
This. It was obvious this is what was happening with the Warriors until someone in MIN finally realized that Kerr and Griffin were tight and they weren't fooling anyone (GSW values Klay > Love straight up.) Now they have another worm on the hook and are floating crazy deals with deadlines - so as not to drum up a bidding war when it is actually intended to fool CLE into offering the farm.Joe Summer said:
I don't think CHI is interested at all, and I don't think Griffin bites given that he knows MIN has leaked these fictitious offers before.
biggamer3
Footballguy
If Klay and Lee and possibly Barnes is the offer for GS to get Love and probably Martin thrown in too, is there anyone who still thinks GS is smart to not deal for Love?
I seriously cant think of one reason why this is a not no brainer for GS, especially considering Klay already is talking about wanting a max deal next year.
Klay's defense was ok, lets not make him into Ron Artest in his prime.
I seriously cant think of one reason why this is a not no brainer for GS, especially considering Klay already is talking about wanting a max deal next year.
Klay's defense was ok, lets not make him into Ron Artest in his prime.
I think GS is a little goofy to be all-in on Klay for the long run. Love the kid; love that he busted his hump to turn himself into a plus defender through sheer effort of will. But he just doesn't have the body type that supports the sort of athleticism that translates to long term defensive lockdown potential. He's going to lose a step before his contemporaries do with that build.
I'd move him in a deal for Love without a second thought.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Delusional!
Premier
Footballguy
EYLive
Footballguy
What build/body type are you referring to? What makes you think he can't maintain or improve his athleticism and defense?
Jayrod
Footballguy
I think by build/body type I think he meant skin color. Wayyy to pale to be able to be athletic for very long.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
See: Love, Kevin
No. 16
Footballguy
I have stated this many times before....
To upgrade from David Lee to Kevin Love it will cost the Warriors:
Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, cap flexibility (if they have to take on Kevin Martin), and potentially 1st round draft picks and/or Draymond.
If Kevin Love was a 2 way player sure you do that trade, but he isn't. The Warriors offense would be better, but at what cost to the #4 DEF based on points per possession and depth?
Other points:
- Kevin Love isn't exactly the most durable player either. He's NEVER played an 82 game season. When a team's futures already ride on Curry's ankle and whatever freak accident can injure Bogut, do you really want to a 3rd player who's never finished a full season? Klay Thompson has played every game except one due to his grandfather's funeral.
- Stephen Curry, Steve Kerr, and Iggy have spoken out to keep Klay. Those are 3 important people. Team chemistry matters, especially when your franchise player is making only 11 per year for the next 4 years and they just dumped the coach he publicly couched for.
- The Warriors team is good enough and young enough to stand pat and see what they've got. Curry, Klay, Barnes, Draymond can still improve. Draymond is worlds better on defense than Love and he showed major improvement with his 3 pointer last year. There's no reason he can't function as the stretch 4. With Kerr on the bench instead of Mark Jackson, the team should improve on the #12 ranked offense that relied on isolation and post ups. The team as is and with good health can sport a Top 5 offense (they certainly have the talent sans Love) to go along with the #4 DEF.
Sure Kevin Love is a great player, but the Warriors are a very good team without him. Add Love, but subtract Klay...they remain a very good team but with questions about defense and future flexibility. The goal is to add Kevin Love WITH Curry and Klay....you do that and they are championship contenders.
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Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Just in time!
No. 16
Footballguy
Yah I actually think it's the opposite. He's a sneaky athlete, but what makes him a great defender is his length, smarts, and flat out hustle. Those qualities age well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YxF6kNb5X0
Check the link to remind you why Klay is so valuable.
biggamer3
Footballguy
About the points about Curry, Iggy and Kerr speaking out in favor of Klay, take that with a HUGE grain of salt since 1) they are likely friends with him (the players) and 2) there is NO reason for them to ever say they are in favor of a trade since they are professionals and they know how the media would spin their words. If he gets dealt they simply say we loved Klay but this is a business and they move on. Their words didn't mean much when they clamored to keep Jax around, they seem pretty happy with Kerr now.
About losing flexibility with this deal, Lee and Klay would cost the Warriors 29M next year, Love and Martin will be about 23M, they actually are saving money and over the long run it is non debatable which player you rather take with you for the next 5 years between Love and Klay on similar contracts.
As to the part about them being a winning team as it is, the are never going to go far this this squad of guys absent a second superstar joining the rotation, Love is that star.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
No. 16
Footballguy
Again if they're all friends...it could ruin team chemistry. Simple. Sure it's not a big deal and certainly not a sticking point, but it's something to consider along with the basketball implications.
Lee's deal is up in 2 years, Martin's is 3 years. I also believe since Kevin Love's next contract will be based on a percentage raise from his previous MAX... Kevin Love's MAX deal will cost more than Klay's MAX deal.
It maybe insane (it is!) to think but maybe Klay is the 2nd superstar? Just for fun how many other perimeter players are out there that averaged 16+ ppg AND 38% from 3 point land (Klay career marks)
Last year there was 10 of them:
Curry
Klay
Dragic
Lillard
Matthews
Afflalo
Kevin Martin
Bradley Beal
Nick Young
Now of that list how many can defend 1s AND the wing players (though he struggles against beefier 3s) ? Afflalo and Matthews for sure. Dragic passable. Beal maybe in the future?
So then you have Klay, Beal, Afflalo, Matthews, and Dragic. Afflalo and Matthews/Dragic are 28 and 27 respectively. Beal is the only one younger than Klay (20 vs 23). So while it seems there's a bunch of 3 and D guys in the league.... Klay is among the best and arguably THE BEST 3 and D guy in the league (I'll give you Kawhi).
If you want to look at 3 year averages since Klay's been in the league you add: LeBron James, Kyle Lowry, James Harden, Joe Johnson, and Kyrie Irving to the list above. LBJ is the Best on Earth. Harden is a MAX contract guy and plays NO DEFENSE. Lowry and Kyrie are PGs. Joe Johnson is old.
People think it's a no brainer because Kevin Love is the ultimate stretch 4 and that Klay's skills are easily replaceable but after looking at it more it maybe just as true for Klay as it is for Love.
---------------
Stats to support
---------------
G-F who scored 16+ ppg AND > 40% 3 point shooting in 2013-2014
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=16&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.380&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
G-F who scored 16+ ppg AND > 40% 3 point shooting since Klay's been in the league
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2012&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=16&c2stat=fg3_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.380&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
You all caps that like it means something. LeBron's never played an 82 game season either.
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