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Ministry of Pain

Will Roger Goodell create a Civil War in the NFL?

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When these suspensions start coming for players which I am adamantly against since it was the coaches who put the orders in and players were just following orders. You can debate it, if it sickens you what they did, more power to you. I don't condone it but I'm fine with Goodell going after the coaches and GM for now. I think the punishments are harsh but as long as the folks being punished are taking it on the chin for the players involved, I'm fine with it.

The President of the Players' Union was very vocal about Goodell seeming like he had already reached some decisions and punishments for players. If Goodell suspended players for a year like he did with Payton, or even half a season...this could really be the tipping point for some of these guys. I do feel like I am in the minority camp these days with a bad taste in my mouth for what Goodell has done. A lot of posters however in the last year have bought in hook line and sinker to what Goodell has done to the game. He really had to take a backseat last year with the lockout and now it seems he is out for blood.

Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $$$. I don't like it, I'm getting tired of it, and at some point some of us are going to go away. Some already have although ratings I'm sure do not reflect that. I can get behind a league that is looking out for player safety but it's a load of horsespit and I have been very vocal that if they really care about the players they will put in weight restriction limits so we don't have 360 lb Nose Tackles falling on 200 lb RBs.

The spread over the last 25 years has gotten way out of control and the players destroy their bodies, many of them die early in life from a variety of medical conditions. So don't sit there on your high horse feeling better for quenching your thrist for blood, the same as the Romans did 2,000 years ago, you cannot sit there with a straight face and say that Goodell is genuinely concerned about the players...he is concerned for certain players, elite QBs that pack the stadiums and TV ratings.

It's going to take a few key media and sports pundits to get vocal about this and show Goodell for what he really is. For now things seem rosy but guys like Gruden last year going toe to toe with Tirico in the booth. Now we have to allow the receivers a chance to catch the ball and make a football move...so then we should allow RBs to get a full head of steam going and not touch them until they reach the LOS right? Let's just put flags on the players and run a 7 on 7 which will slash payrolls and then they can just run 5 WRs out every play and the QBs can throw for 7,500 yds and 60 TDs. That's crazy talk, no one would ever change the game into a strictly passing league where the fundamental idea of moving an oblong ball made of pigskin 3-4 yds at a time with grown men fighting and scrumming along the line on both sides of the ball...that would never change would it?

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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Sorry dude, but they weren't following orders based on the info comin out. They were actively participating and contributing.

Big difference.

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No to pretty much all of this.

Because we'll all support (go to/watch/buy stuff) the game.

Edited by identikit

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And I generally like the job Goodell has done/is doing.

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Sorry dude, but they weren't following orders based on the info comin out. They were actively participating and contributing. Big difference.

They didn't organize it, that seemed to come from above. Willis from SF was on CC today, would not comment and it sounded as if there is going to be some very stiff penalties coming for the players involved. I'm sorry but a good leader or coach would root that out and put a stop to it. Players are like kids, they typically are a reflection of the coach with a few exceptions.

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There has got to be something in your life more deserving of anger than this.

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There has got to be something in your life more deserving of anger than this.

I've mellowed

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Those that love what Goodell has done...what has he done exactly that you like? Do you like that he treats the players like felons from Leavenworth? Do you like that he is putting a stop or curtailing the violence in the game? Willis did say on CC today that he has no idea what is legal and not legal in the NFL anymore, he also said he does not understand why the league wants them to aim low on the legs where they can potentially end a career vs a hit in the chest area which typically does not threaten the career of most players.

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Seriously man, you need some anger management counseling or something. If you don't like the product, then don't watch. Go find something else to enjoy in your life. If the NFL is that important in your life to get THAT worked up, then maybe you need to take some time off and re-evaluate your priorities anyway.

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Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $$$.

Your right about one thing, Goodell caters to the casual fan, BUT.. that's part of his job. You see, it IS all about money, and the NFL really rakes in off of the casual fan. They already have the hardcore fan (US).. we're going to tune in no matter what, we're going to buy merchandise no matter what, and we're going to play fantasy football no matter what. We are the hardcore fan, we are their standard, we already are figured into the profits.The CASUAL fan is where the money is at, because the casual fan creates the spike in tv ratings, the spike in merchandise sales, the spike in everything, etc.So yes, Goodell is going to cater to the casual fan, because he wants more revenue for the league.

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I hope he suspends Scott Fujita so he doesn't end up on the field for the Browns this year. :bag:

Edited by Fallerjw

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Seriously man, you need some anger management counseling or something. If you don't like the product, then don't watch. Go find something else to enjoy in your life. If the NFL is that important in your life to get THAT worked up, then maybe you need to take some time off and re-evaluate your priorities anyway.

:lol:And I have issues because I am speaking out against Goodell?

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Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $$.

Your right about one thing, Goodell caters to the casual fan, BUT.. that's part of his job. You see, it IS all about money, and the NFL really rakes in off of the casual fan. They already have the hardcore fan (US).. we're going to tune in no matter what, we're going to buy merchandise no matter what, and we're going to play fantasy football no matter what. We are the hardcore fan, we are their standard, we already are figured into the profits.The CASUAL fan is where the money is at, because the casual fan creates the spike in tv ratings, the spike in merchandise sales, the spike in everything, etc.So yes, Goodell is going to cater to the casual fan, because he wants more revenue for the league.
NP but let's call a spade a spade and not say MOP has anger management issues. I think Goodell has the anger management issues myself.

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Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $.

Your right about one thing, Goodell caters to the casual fan, BUT.. that's part of his job. You see, it IS all about money, and the NFL really rakes in off of the casual fan. They already have the hardcore fan (US).. we're going to tune in no matter what, we're going to buy merchandise no matter what, and we're going to play fantasy football no matter what. We are the hardcore fan, we are their standard, we already are figured into the profits.The CASUAL fan is where the money is at, because the casual fan creates the spike in tv ratings, the spike in merchandise sales, the spike in everything, etc.So yes, Goodell is going to cater to the casual fan, because he wants more revenue for the league.
NP but let's call a spade a spade and not say MOP has anger management issues. I think Goodell has the anger management issues myself.
Mop in the third person.Oy.

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The players do not have the power to individually stand up to Goodell. They can threaten a strike, but as we saw with the CBA negotiating, the players don't seem willing to miss any time.

If there really is a fissure in the NFL, such a crack will come from an action such as the one he took against the Skins and the Cowboys.

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If you seriously think the NFL bears any resemblance to what went on in the Roman coliseums, you need a history lesson.

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The players may have also lied to Goodell during his investigation. Lying, more than the bounty itself, is what got the team in so much trouble with the league. The team and possibly players lied (allegedly) many times to Goodell over several years.

If Goodell called in some key players during his investigation and asked them if a bounty system - funded and endorsed by the organization - existed and they said no, they're getting suspended.

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If you seriously think the NFL bears any resemblance to what went on in the Roman coliseums, you need a history lesson.

:thumbdown: Edited by Ministry of Pain

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Your argument here seems pretty similar to the movie "A Few Good Men" and the argument that they defense made for their guys. They lost, though not as badly as did the people who were giving them the orders. In this case, I think it should be similar where the coaches are handled more harshly, but I also think that the players doing it is wrong and I am not opposed to them being punished at a lesser level either.

JMO.

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I agree to what MOP is saying to some extent. I do not think Goodell is good for the sport. He is all business and money. Yes, I know this is a business, but just because you have people hooked does not mean its ok to sell them junk now that they arent going anywhere. Its like once you get married and you know your wife wont leave you, you can just be the biggest ##### ever. This is a dangerous game and its disappointing that they aren't allowed to play the game its meant to be played. The risk of injury is in part why its exciting and in part why they get paid so much. I work doing construction and it beats my body up. BUT I chose that career and I know the consequences. That's just life. Goodell need to let them play the game its meant to be played and stop feeding us crap because he knows we'll eat it up.

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Your argument here seems pretty similar to the movie "A Few Good Men" and the argument that they defense made for their guys. They lost, though not as badly as did the people who were giving them the orders. In this case, I think it should be similar where the coaches are handled more harshly, but I also think that the players doing it is wrong and I am not opposed to them being punished at a lesser level either.JMO.

Anything more than 2-4 games will create a lot of backlash.

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Look, the NFL can't put size or weight limits in. They would immediately get sued and lose for discrimination. Plus there is no way you could accurately quantify something like that.

Re: hitting low versus hitting high; a guy may have his career ended by a knee injury, but the worst case scenario long term is pain in that knee and maybe some trouble walking. The high hits have shown to lead to long term brain damage that can go so far as to cause depression and lead to suicide. Which one is really worse, ending your career because of a knee injury, or having permanent brain damage? (and clearly high hits that lead to concussions lead to ended careers as well. Probably more often than knee injuries with today's advances in knee surgeries).

The NFL has numerous optional safety equipment ranging from new helmets to lots of padding. Many players choose not to use them. That's not on the NFL. Maybe it should be mandatory, but it's hard to blame Goodell over the players on that one as well.

Lastly, I think it's fair to blame the Saints coaches over the players. But that doesn't mean the players deserve no blame. In fact, there have been tons of comments from former and current players saying that bounties or other reward payments and the such go on between players all over the league. The Saints situation happens to be more egregious because it was managed by the team and because it explicitly involved encouraging players to intentionally injure other players.

I have no problem with Goodell trying to get rid of the really dangerous hits. Where I think they're messing up is not going back and altering the pass interference rules. Defensive backs just have no chance now. They need to allow contact throughout the whole play. Keep holding so that they can't actually hold a guy, but allow them to bump and hit a guy the whole way. That will immediately balance things out and defensive players will have no need to whine about not being allowed to deliver big hits to dislodge balls anymore because they can bump and hit a guy enough to break up a pass without delivering a big hit.

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Goodell is exactly what the NFL needs in a commish right now. Probably the best commish since Rozelle.

You can be a commish of an incredibly violent sport, and still do all you can for player safety. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's funny the claims he really doesn't care about player safety, yet there has been a massive uproar, every week last season, about how pansy the league has become. I am not really sure what else a commish could do to prove that he was serious about player safety.

The bounty thing needed to be nipped in the bud. The punishments needed to be harsh, so the NFL never needs to deal with this again. This was a whole bunch of negative press that the NFL doesn't want to deal with again. They had to make an example out of the Saints, set a precedent. Thank God it was the Saints, a league darling, so we didn't have to hear that Goodell had it in for the team in question (aside from one lunatic on the board here).

Size limits? Ha. It's the speed that causes the collision, we should tie all the defensive players shoelaces together, that'd fix it.

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Goodell is exactly what the NFL needs in a commish right now. Probably the best commish since Rozelle.

You can be a commish of an incredibly violent sport, and still do all you can for player safety. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's funny the claims he really doesn't care about player safety, yet there has been a massive uproar, every week last season, about how pansy the league has become. I am not really sure what else a commish could do to prove that he was serious about player safety.

The bounty thing needed to be nipped in the bud. The punishments needed to be harsh, so the NFL never needs to deal with this again. This was a whole bunch of negative press that the NFL doesn't want to deal with again. They had to make an example out of the Saints, set a precedent. Thank God it was the Saints, a league darling, so we didn't have to hear that Goodell had it in for the team in question (aside from one lunatic on the board here).

Size limits? Ha. It's the speed that causes the collision, we should tie all the defensive players shoelaces together, that'd fix it.

:goodposting:

Especially the bolded.

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Congrats MOP, on starting the most ridiculous thread in the entire internets, ever!

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IMO the people criticizing Goodell don't really understand the size and nature of the challenge the NFL is facing with the concussion issue. Bountygate directly undermined everything the NFL is (belatedly) trying to do and there was no way it wasn't going to be dealt with harshly. And I think the same goes for the fines for late/cheap hits. If anything he's let too much go and will probably start handing out more suspensions.

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IMO the people criticizing Goodell don't really understand the size and nature of the challenge the NFL is facing with the concussion issue. Bountygate directly undermined everything the NFL is (belatedly) trying to do and there was no way it wasn't going to be dealt with harshly. And I think the same goes for the fines for late/cheap hits. If anything he's let too much go and will probably start handing out more suspensions.

:goodposting:

Get over it or join MoP's civil war. :)

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I think in general the types of changes Goodell has made have been good or at least with good intent. Where he deserves a lot of criticism is in poor explanation, implementation, and consistency.

When these suspensions start coming for players which I am adamantly against since it was the coaches who put the orders in and players were just following orders. ... If Goodell suspended players for a year like he did with Payton, or even half a season

If there is solid evidence on Vilma and the $10k bounty, he should count himself lucky if he doesn't do jail time. I expect player punishments will be less than coach punishments with the exception of anyone like Vilma.

I can get behind a league that is looking out for player safety but it's a load of horsespit ... you cannot sit there with a straight face and say that Goodell is genuinely concerned about the players...he is concerned for certain players, elite QBs that pack the stadiums and TV ratings.

I see rule changes that protect grunts and special team players too, and do nothing to cater to any fan, casual or hard core. I would have a very hard time saying the NFL isn't showing concern for the health of players beyond elite QBs. I'd have to intentionally ignore much of what they'd done to come to such a conclusion.

Now we have to allow the receivers a chance to catch the ball and make a football move...

No, you don't. I'm sure you know the rules well enough to know that isn't the case. If you don't, search the forum and I posted the NFL's video showing what are legal and illegal hits. It's really very simple, don't hit a defenseless player in the head or neck, and don't spear with your helmet.That's not just a good rule, it's a GREAT ####### RULE. Like I said to start this post, the failing of the NFL is in things like not coming out with the video before the season so it's clear, and not stopping it quickly when the refs were calling the penalty whenever in doubt. The same problem happened with the new rules about blows to the QB's head 2-3 years ago. The next year the NFL emphasized it be a forceful blow, i.e. something likely to injure. The result, most of those flags that weren't needed to increase player safety went away.I hope the same will happen with defenseless receivers as it goes to its second year, and they will rein things back a little. But the basis of the rule is a great one. If you can't separate a receiver from the ball without having to hit him in his head, you don't deserve to be on an NFL field. They just need to have refs call it when they are sure, and huddle to make sure the call is correct.None of that has anything to do with Goodell having no concern for players. He just hasn't been good in rolling things out, and has sucked at being consistent in his punishment rulings. Those aren't character flaws that make him someone to demonize though.

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the punishments were warranted - people conveniently forget that part of the reason that the suspensions were so stiff were that the NFL was lied to and that a promise to stop was not kept.

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Your argument here seems pretty similar to the movie "A Few Good Men" and the argument that they defense made for their guys. They lost, though not as badly as did the people who were giving them the orders. In this case, I think it should be similar where the coaches are handled more harshly, but I also think that the players doing it is wrong and I am not opposed to them being punished at a lesser level either.JMO.

Anything more than 2-4 games will create a lot of backlash.
From who?The players who were at risk of being hurt? The fans who could watch as one their star players was carted off the field?

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There has got to be something in your life more deserving of anger than this.

I've mellowed
Not much evidence of this in this thread.BTW, you're not thinking straight. Goodell has to--and will--come down extremely hard on Vilma, especially. Others will get theirs, as well.As it should be. As it DEFINITELY should be. These are not drones, and they were not forced by anybody to do anything to anyone. Players have to take responsibility as men for behaving like neanderthals. Sorry, you're just way off base here, and I'm not sure what your issue is.As always.

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The players may have also lied to Goodell during his investigation. Lying, more than the bounty itself, is what got the team in so much trouble with the league. The team and possibly players lied (allegedly) many times to Goodell over several years.

If Goodell called in some key players during his investigation and asked them if a bounty system - funded and endorsed by the organization - existed and they said no, they're getting suspended.

In a big way, too. As they should be. MOP has not really thought this through.

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I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

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Sorry MOP, but I just don;t agree with...well, pretty much anything you said.

As many have posted, Goodell is dead on - and really is almost forced to come down hard, given the fact that the NFL investigated this 2 years ago and was bold-face lied to.

And most people are hardly "up in arms" about this as you seem to be...for some unknown reason.

:shrug:

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IMO the people criticizing Goodell don't really understand the size and nature of the challenge the NFL is facing with the concussion issue. Bountygate directly undermined everything the NFL is (belatedly) trying to do and there was no way it wasn't going to be dealt with harshly. And I think the same goes for the fines for late/cheap hits. If anything he's let too much go and will probably start handing out more suspensions.

I agree that late and dirty hits need to be addressed seriously. But when you start taking away from the game of football is when it becomes a problem. When games are decided by somebody's hand grazing a QBs helmet or a DB putting a clean stick on a WR, or silly penalties that are clean football hits, thats when its gone too far. Where does it end? The only way to truly get injuries out of the NFL is to make it flag football. This is a CONTACT sport, you know the risk, you chose to play or not. Boxing is a contact sport. If your concerned with concussion then DONT BOX! Your not going to take punching out of boxing because the risk it puts the athletes in. Football players all know the risks that are current when playing the game and they have made an educated decision that the reward is greater than the risk. And don't even get me started on the fines! Where does all this money go that is fined for big hits?? And what is with all the fines for the wrong socks, or equipment? Does no one find it a little ridiculous the NFL is on being so controlling and handing fines out so often? I just feel like he is like a controlling big brother who gets all huffy and puffy when people arent doing what he says. I just feel like its all about the money and how you can fine the crap out of people for hitting someone. If its really about the players safety dont make it all about the money. Start suspending players for lengths of the game or even full games, not just charge them 75,000 dollars and let them back in the game.

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Congrats MOP, on starting the most ridiculous thread in the entire internets, ever!

That's been posted before in my threads. I seem to set World Records every time I touch the keys.

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People are just focusing on the Bountygate, but it's a lot more than that. I agree the punishments for the coaches and the GM should have been very severe and they were. Others have already posted that they accept that Goodell doesn't care about most of the true fans, much more concerned with corporations, commercials, and printing money. That proves my point that people are going to eat it up no matter how much Goodell changes the fabric of the game.

On a side note: May I ask why some posters feel the need to turn threads personal? You may not like the topic and I may very well be in the minority which doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you either. Conversations can be boring if everyone feels the same way about things. I'm sorry if I stir animosity, that's not my intention. I write with some passion, if I didn't I wouldn't write it and most of you wouldn't either. Let's not make this about any one poster.

I'm not alone in my view but I understand if it's not the popular view.

Thanks

:banned:

Edited by Ministry of Pain

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People are just focusing on the Bountygate, but it's a lot more than that. I agree the punishments for the coaches and the GM should have been very severe and they were. Others have already posted that they accept that Goodell doesn't care about most of the true fans, much more concerned with corporations, commercials, and printing money. That proves my point that people are going to eat it up no matter how much Goodell changes the fabric of the game.On a side note: May I ask why some posters feel the need to turn threads personal? You may not like the topic and I may very well be in the minority which doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you either. Conversations can be boring if everyone feels the same way about things. I'm sorry if I stir animosity, that's not my intention. I write with some passion, if I didn't I wouldn't write it and most of you wouldn't either. Let's not make this about any one poster. I'm not alone in my view but I understand if it's not the popular view. Thanks :banned:

I have no personal beef with the fact that you are the timchochet of the SP. You do a good job imitating him. Are you an alias?

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