Will Roger Goodell create a Civil War in the NFL? (4 Viewers)

[Borat]

I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

Really? Goodell could'nt even announce the draft correctly his first year as commish. He started out the draft by saying "with the first pick in the draft, the Oakland Raiders take...". Teams don't "take" players they "select" them, it wasn't until about 15 picks later that someone finally told him he looked like an idiot up there and he switched to the proper way...and BTW I agree with the OP.

Well, when you raise such a critical point like this, I must reconsider.

Not a critical point, but the point is that for such a job as the stature of running the NFL as commissioner, you would think that person could at least get something like that correct his first draft. If I was running a company and hired a CEO to represent my company, I wouldn't want the guy looking like an idiot the first time he gets in front of a microphone and in front of millions of viewers on TV, that would make me have second thoughts immediately...

This is the first example that came to mind for you?



Goodell is apparently doing an even better job than I had thought.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

Really? Goodell could'nt even announce the draft correctly his first year as commish. He started out the draft by saying "with the first pick in the draft, the Oakland Raiders take...". Teams don't "take" players they "select" them, it wasn't until about 15 picks later that someone finally told him he looked like an idiot up there and he switched to the proper way...and BTW I agree with the OP.

Oh really?

 

[Multiple Scores]

I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

Really? Goodell could'nt even announce the draft correctly his first year as commish. He started out the draft by saying "with the first pick in the draft, the Oakland Raiders take...". Teams don't "take" players they "select" them, it wasn't until about 15 picks later that someone finally told him he looked like an idiot up there and he switched to the proper way...and BTW I agree with the OP.

Oh really?

Jake owes everyone an apology.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Was Titanic rereleased today?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Looks like he did say "take" for Calvin Johnson.

Said "select" for Joe Thomas:

From just searching YouTube clips, it looks like Goodell said "take" instead of "select" 4, maybe 5, times max. He was obviously a bit nervous and tight to start, but he grew into it fairly quickly and had some great interactions with fans off camera.

If that's what gets your panties in a bunch, then you may be wound a bit too tight.

If there was anything to complain about that draft, it was that the fans that stood in line the longest to get in got screwed, and that draft took WAY WAY WAY too long.

 

[Borat]

I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

Really? Goodell could'nt even announce the draft correctly his first year as commish. He started out the draft by saying "with the first pick in the draft, the Oakland Raiders take...". Teams don't "take" players they "select" them, it wasn't until about 15 picks later that someone finally told him he looked like an idiot up there and he switched to the proper way...and BTW I agree with the OP.

Oh really?

 

[cobalt_27]

I think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner, to be honest.

Really? Goodell could'nt even announce the draft correctly his first year as commish. He started out the draft by saying "with the first pick in the draft, the Oakland Raiders take...". Teams don't "take" players they "select" them, it wasn't until about 15 picks later that someone finally told him he looked like an idiot up there and he switched to the proper way...and BTW I agree with the OP.

Oh really?

Ha! The whole premise was idiotic enough, I didn't think to fact check it.

 

[Godsbrother]

The President of the Players' Union was very vocal about Goodell seeming like he had already reached some decisions and punishments for players. If Goodell suspended players for a year like he did with Payton, or even half a season...this could really be the tipping point for some of these guys. I do feel like I am in the minority camp these days with a bad taste in my mouth for what Goodell has done. A lot of posters however in the last year have bought in hook line and sinker to what Goodell has done to the game. He really had to take a backseat last year with the lockout and now it seems he is out for blood. Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $$$.

I don't like Goodell's heavy handiness and inconsistency over fines and suspensions but the players have no one to blame but themselves. The time to have done something about it was during the last collective bargaining agreement. One team tried to make a stand against Goodell but the others caved in so I have no sympathy for the players that are whining about it now.

You made your bed now sleep in it. All hail deh fuhrer Goodell.

 

[SWC]

i dont even think you know what a civil war is go listen to roland the headless tomson gunner and you will have a better idea but until then you are not norways favorite sun and will probably never understand the plight of the congolese so this thread should not throw around the term civil war so lightly take that from here to johannasburg to the bank there brohan

 

[Shutout]

Someone on Sirius said the other day that "Pete Rozelle built the NFL and now Roger Goodell will save it from itself." The NFL is such an entity of its own that it is not going to flounder but one of the key roles for Goodell's job (and you will hear him make mention of it just about anytime he is being interviewed) is to grow the game and take seriosuly the challenges to player safety that it is facing in increased numbers.

I think the number of lawsuits filed right now against the NFL, just regarding brain/concussion issues is like 70-72 or something like that. As awareness and medical technology improves, people are seeing that safety needs must be addressed. We see it from previous generations with retired players with knees, backs, etc, and now its the brain and things of that nature. Overall, it IS very important and very expensive for the league to be held liable and not address it. While its not the same, it is similar as if your employer didn't offer to provide safety measures to you, knowing that letting the status quo continue would likely lead to injury or medical concerns.

I think Goodell is doing a fine job. I especially liked how he handled the Bountygate situation. I think he sent an exceptionally strong message of deterrence that was very well balanced in that it clearly affected the people responsible but at the same time did NOT send a long term punishment to the fan. Had he taken away tons of draft picks, the responsible people could have left town and the Saints fans would be sitting there for a decade trying to dig out of having no way to field a competitve team. Based on the punishment, I would say people will think twice before lying to the NFL or acting in this way again.

Armani Toomer was interviewed the other day and he said,as a former player, this type of thing sickens him because he said players know that this is a tough game with a lot of natural consequences in it and that players generally understood that no one should be out there trying to end a person's career or negatively impact their quality of life. Paraphrasing here, but he said, for players to try to do these kinds of things for relatively insignificant amounts of money is sickening because players in the NFL are living out their dream and it was terrible that people who should understand how much effort goes into having an NFL job would be willing to take it away like that.

 

[Hammer of Goodell]

*Puts MOP on a list*

 

[DoubleG]

*Puts MOP on a list*

An alias is born. Oh good.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

No.

thread/

 

[blackbird001]

Without a list of Goodell's contributions/decisions in front of me, I can safely say that I agree with nearly everything he's done, including the saints bounty program up to the cap penalties imposed on the eve of free agency. However, if the Dallas/Washington penalty and the way it was handled is evidence of a change in his behavior due to feeling invincible, then I could quickly change into a Goodell hater.

EVERYTHING about the cap penalty to those two teams stinks. From the beginning premise, to the way it was 'voted' on, to they timeline in doling out the penalty. I don't think an accurate picture has been composed about what a post-nuclear option NFL landscape would look like if the anti-trust exemption was removed due to a lawsuit, so I can't say I want that to happen. But from a justice perspective, I hope Snyder/Jones spank Goodell and the rest of the owners on this.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I don't think Goodell has anything to do with the Redskins/Cowboys issue. That's strictly between the owners.

 

[Dexter Manley]

While I disagree with the OP, which I think is way over the top, you guys who think Goodell "is probably the best commish since Rozelle" and "think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner" have a really low bar for excellence, and are just as off base as the OP.

I think Goodell is doing a very good job with bountygate thus far. He knows he has to protect the NFL from liability from lawsuits. So he gets high marks for that. As far as protecting the league from liability goes, I'd give him an "A."

Then in the same time period, he allows a rogue owner, John Mara, to institute cap penalties against 2 in division foes on the eve of FA, despite the 2 teams literally breaking no rules. This is an unprecedented incident in any pro sports league as far as I can tell. This in itself should be a fireable offense - no competent commissioner should ever allow this type of cheating, sleaziness, and unethical behavior by an owner like Mara to occur. This is a very real chance that Congress will eventually get involved in this and review the nfl's antitrust exemption, due to this debacle. A good commissioner would never allow his league to be put in this type of vulnerable position.

From a marketing standpoint, I think Goodell is doing his job very well, even better than Tags.

As for being consistent in handing out punishments, suspensions, etc., Goodell is absolutely terrible. I'd be surprised if anyone in the Shark Pool would play in a fantasy league with a commissioner that is so inconsistent. Goodell has suspended players despite not being convicted of any crimes. He's suspended some players for certain actions and not suspended other players for the same type of actions. There needs to be strict guidelines and exact punishments which are clearly defined for every type of misbehavior by nfl players, instead of Goodell seemingly handing down whatever punishment he desires like he's King Joffrey.

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

And then there's the simple common sense stuff that he's screwed up. For example, any knowledgeable nfl fan knew that who got to play the first home game in the new stadium for the Giants and Jets was a pretty big deal. Goodell works for the owners, so he should have had the common sense to know he had to communicate with the 2 teams how it was going to be decided who got to play the first home game in the new stadium. Instead, however, Goodell apparently decided to just flip a coin during his lunch break to make the decision without consulting either team prior?

In conclusion, he's done a lot of really good things. And he's made a lot of mistakes and blunders. He's a mixed bag at best. As far as NFL commissioners in my lifetime go: Rozelle>>>>>>>>>Tags>>>Goodell.

 

[Devine Intervention]

While I disagree with the OP, which I think is way over the top, you guys who think Goodell "is probably the best commish since Rozelle" and "think it's time to start considering Goodell as a great commissioner" have a really low bar for excellence, and are just as off base as the OP.

I think Goodell is doing a very good job with bountygate thus far. He knows he has to protect the NFL from liability from lawsuits. So he gets high marks for that. As far as protecting the league from liability goes, I'd give him an "A."

Then in the same time period, he allows a rogue owner, John Mara, to institute cap penalties against 2 in division foes on the eve of FA, despite the 2 teams literally breaking no rules. This is an unprecedented incident in any pro sports league as far as I can tell. This in itself should be a fireable offense - no competent commissioner should ever allow this type of cheating, sleaziness, and unethical behavior by an owner like Mara to occur. This is a very real chance that Congress will eventually get involved in this and review the nfl's antitrust exemption, due to this debacle. A good commissioner would never allow his league to be put in this type of vulnerable position.

From a marketing standpoint, I think Goodell is doing his job very well, even better than Tags.

As for being consistent in handing out punishments, suspensions, etc., Goodell is absolutely terrible. I'd be surprised if anyone in the Shark Pool would play in a fantasy league with a commissioner that is so inconsistent. Goodell has suspended players despite not being convicted of any crimes. He's suspended some players for certain actions and not suspended other players for the same type of actions. There needs to be strict guidelines and exact punishments which are clearly defined for every type of misbehavior by nfl players, instead of Goodell seemingly handing down whatever punishment he desires like he's King Joffrey.

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

And then there's the simple common sense stuff that he's screwed up. For example, any knowledgeable nfl fan knew that who got to play the first home game in the new stadium for the Giants and Jets was a pretty big deal. Goodell works for the owners, so he should have had the common sense to know he had to communicate with the 2 teams how it was going to be decided who got to play the first home game in the new stadium. Instead, however, Goodell apparently decided to just flip a coin during his lunch break to make the decision without consulting either team prior?

In conclusion, he's done a lot of really good things. And he's made a lot of mistakes and blunders. He's a mixed bag at best. As far as NFL commissioners in my lifetime go: Rozelle>>>>>>>>>Tags>>>Goodell.

I feel like he is always just trying to save face or avoid something. If there is something that draws more media attention he will come down harder on it to look better. I know I dont have much specifics to back this but I just feel he's not concerned on the offense itself as in so much as the way that offense looks in representing the league. Im a future teacher and we are told to make sure that rules and consequences are fair and just to all students equally. I dont see that from Goodell. There cannot be favoritism. This is just an example, but if someone hits a no name QB like Jason Cambell in the knees and he gets hurt no one cares. If Tom Brady gets hit below the knees they make a rule out of it. That's favoritism. i know you can say that its protecting the product, but its got to be consistent and with him its not.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Definitely not a staff-worthy thread.

 

[DoubleG]

After lsitening to the audio of Gregg Williams wax poetic about taking out Crabtree's ACL and hitting Frank Gore in the head during pileups and "testing" Williams' concussion - does MoP still think Goodell is going to hard on these ###-wipes?

 

[Doug B]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

 

[sho nuff]

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

One coach was warned and told the NFL was investigating and to stop his actions...he didn't...he got suspended.The two situations are far different and the penalties should have been didfferent.Love how you go overboard with the claim of blatant cheating and disrupting competetive balance too.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

After lsitening to the audio of Gregg Williams wax poetic about taking out Crabtree's ACL and hitting Frank Gore in the head during pileups and "testing" Williams' concussion - does MoP still think Goodell is going to hard on these ###-wipes?

I stated I have no issues with the penalties on the coaches. I put up plenty to tear apart, I don't any extra help GG

 

[Ministry of Pain]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

Good stuff DB

 

[Dexter Manley]

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

One coach was warned and told the NFL was investigating and to stop his actions...he didn't...he got suspended.The two situations are far different and the penalties should have been didfferent.

Look, I understand that the situations are not exactly the same, but not for the reason you state. The Patriots and every other team were warned to stop what they were doing, just like the Saints were warned to stop the bounties. Goodell obviously had to drop the hammer on Payton to protect the league from existing and future lawsuits. I'm not saying Belichick should have gotten a full year, but he certainly should have gotten at least a 4 game suspension.

Love how you go overboard with the claim of blatant cheating and disrupting competetive balance too.

Well, I've got the facts on my side and you've got just your opinion.

 

[DoubleG]

After lsitening to the audio of Gregg Williams wax poetic about taking out Crabtree's ACL and hitting Frank Gore in the head during pileups and "testing" Williams' concussion - does MoP still think Goodell is going to hard on these ###-wipes?

I stated I have no issues with the penalties on the coaches. I put up plenty to tear apart, I don't any extra help GG

Here's why I don't seperate. How many of his players turned down payments? How many of them disagree with the policy? Heck, how many of them were making deals themselves? In Williams' rant he says "the first one is on me" (rubbing his fingers together = $) - the point being that if he pays the first one, who pays the other "bounties"? Just the coaches? I'd bet (no pun intended) that many of the bounties are funded "pool style" - everbody throws in some money and whoever knocks people out wins the pot(s). The Lions obviously have confused this "pot" thing - but the point still stands.

Why hold only the coaches accountable? Are they the ones aiming for guys "outside ACLs" - or hitting guys in the head - intentionally? No. The worse part from a players perspective is that they (the players) are also at risk themselves - they, more than anyone, should respect the opposing players whose careers are also at risk on every play - even without intentionally seeking to injure/cripple/incapacitate.

I understand what you are saying - I just disagree with it.

 

[sho nuff]

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

One coach was warned and told the NFL was investigating and to stop his actions...he didn't...he got suspended.The two situations are far different and the penalties should have been didfferent.

Look, I understand that the situations are not exactly the same, but not for the reason you state. The Patriots and every other team were warned to stop what they were doing, just like the Saints were warned to stop the bounties. Goodell obviously had to drop the hammer on Payton to protect the league from existing and future lawsuits. I'm not saying Belichick should have gotten a full year, but he certainly should have gotten at least a 4 game suspension.

Love how you go overboard with the claim of blatant cheating and disrupting competetive balance too.

Well, I've got the facts on my side and you've got just your opinion.

What facts...what facts support that anything the Pats did upset any competitive balance or that it was just blatant cheating.Sorry...thats pure opinion.

 

[Doug B]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

Good stuff DB

There are battlegrounds outside of the league, as well. You'll be interested in this: Bill Simmons calling out the sports media for hypocracy (Twitter, earlier today).

 

[Dexter Manley]

His inconsistency carries over to coaches and teams too. He doesn't suspend Belichick for any games despite him blatantly cheating and disrupting competitive balance in the league, yet he suspends Sean Payton an entire year. This does not compute. Harbaugh and Schwarz only receive a verbal scolding for their actions after the Lions-49ers game last season. Does anyone really think if a similar incident involved 2 players instead that they would have only received a verbal scolding.

One coach was warned and told the NFL was investigating and to stop his actions...he didn't...he got suspended.The two situations are far different and the penalties should have been didfferent.

Look, I understand that the situations are not exactly the same, but not for the reason you state. The Patriots and every other team were warned to stop what they were doing, just like the Saints were warned to stop the bounties. Goodell obviously had to drop the hammer on Payton to protect the league from existing and future lawsuits. I'm not saying Belichick should have gotten a full year, but he certainly should have gotten at least a 4 game suspension.

Love how you go overboard with the claim of blatant cheating and disrupting competetive balance too.

Well, I've got the facts on my side and you've got just your opinion.

What facts...what facts support that anything the Pats did upset any competitive balance or that it was just blatant cheating.Sorry...thats pure opinion.

I'm not going to hijack this thread into a discussion on Spygate, so this will be my last post in this thread with regards to the topic. All the facts are out there which support my previous statements wrt Belichick and Spygate. Feel free to learn them on your own or ask others to elaborate on said facts in another thread.

 

[sho nuff]

hah...

 

[RUSF18]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

Good stuff DB

There are battlegrounds outside of the league, as well. You'll be interested in this: Bill Simmons calling out the sports media for hypocracy (Twitter, earlier today).

Great that you posted this. He's flipping his #### because of how the league handled concussions years ago. WTF does that have to do with anything? They should just let it continue?As expected, he's getting destroyed on Twitter. The only people agreeing with him or those retweeting it and adding "EXACTLY!".

 

[GroveDiesel]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

Good stuff DB

There are battlegrounds outside of the league, as well. You'll be interested in this: Bill Simmons calling out the sports media for hypocracy (Twitter, earlier today).

Great that you posted this. He's flipping his #### because of how the league handled concussions years ago. WTF does that have to do with anything? They should just let it continue?As expected, he's getting destroyed on Twitter. The only people agreeing with him or those retweeting it and adding "EXACTLY!".

Yeah, I was reading my timeline and just shaming my head at his stupidity.His tantrum basically boils down to: the NFL didn't do anything 5 years ago, so they can NEVER do anything about it.

Good logic there.

 

[GregR]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

Good stuff DB

There are battlegrounds outside of the league, as well. You'll be interested in this: Bill Simmons calling out the sports media for hypocracy (Twitter, earlier today).

Great that you posted this. He's flipping his #### because of how the league handled concussions years ago. WTF does that have to do with anything? They should just let it continue?As expected, he's getting destroyed on Twitter. The only people agreeing with him or those retweeting it and adding "EXACTLY!".

Yeah, I was reading my timeline and just shaming my head at his stupidity.His tantrum basically boils down to: the NFL didn't do anything 5 years ago, so they can NEVER do anything about it.

Good logic there.

Yes, I thought it was ironic that Simmons tweets attacking Goodell for not doing anything about concussions comes up in a thread where Goodell is being attacked for trying to stop hits to the head of defenseless players.

 

[GregR]

I am glad I saw Simmons tweets though, because I followed one of his links to a youtube video of an ESPN Jacked Up segment.

Which by itself wasn't all that viewer worthy, but when it was done, a link popped up for

. A video that should have gotten Oscar buzz in a just world.

 

[Doug B]

Great that you posted this. He's flipping his #### because of how the league handled concussions years ago. WTF does that have to do with anything?

MOP and I are having a back-and-forth abot "culture war" within pro football (read through the last dozen or so posts in this thread). I posted this to make the point that the culture war spills over into the media.

They should just let it continue?

With all due respect, you missed my point totally.

 

[Doug B]

[simmons'] tantrum basically boils down to: the NFL didn't do anything 5 years ago, so they can NEVER do anything about it.

I disagree -- I think Simmons is simply pointing out that the league is not owning its past sins.

 

[GregR]

[simmons'] tantrum basically boils down to: the NFL didn't do anything 5 years ago, so they can NEVER do anything about it.

I disagree -- I think Simmons is simply pointing out that the league is not owning its past sins.

Most people being sued for something don't publicly own up to related past sins.I sure hope that's not Simmon's point, I've thought him a better writer than that. I think he just ranted without thinking about what he was saying.

 

[Hammer of Goodell]

*Puts MOP on a list*

An alias is born. Oh good.

I've had that registered for a bit and never used it. This place seemed appropriate.

 

[Doug B]

I sure hope that's not Simmon's point, I've thought him a better writer than that. I think he just ranted without thinking about what he was saying.

Well, Simmons thought about it some more and posted this at his site. Some excerpts:

The league never turned off its "We're gonna look the other way, keep being violent and keep those hits coming" switch until the 2010 season, after that infamous October weekend with all the signature hits, when Roger Goodell said, "Oh, crap, maybe I should start fining these guys because the Sports Legacy Institute has accumulated three-plus years of rock-solid concussion evidence and lawsuits are coming. Better later than never!"

And so the league started cracking down. Less than 18 months later, we're supposed to be baffled and appalled that the Saints would shrug off those warnings, that they wanted to win money for crippling opponents or knocking them out … you know, because football players aren't supposed to think that way or something. (Watching ESPN this morning was pretty funny — it's like every talking head took an oath to forget the network was running "JACKED UP!" segments a few scant years ago.)

As Peter King wrote in his column this week, the same league that's making such a fuss about violence ran a show called 10 Most Feared Tacklers on its own network last week. The truth is, the NFL doesn't know what the hell it wants. It's the most successful sports league ever; the value of its franchises has never been higher; its television money haul has never been greater. Only there's an elephant in the room — and it's not the Williams tape, Bountygate, or even the hundreds of concussion-related lawsuits from former players that are coming. If they change how football is played and turn it into a glorified version of the Pro Bowl, there's a chance people won't like the sport as much.

So what do you do? You pretend you care. You make an example of the Saints. You crack down on the language of your game. You overreact to cheap hits, and you fine players because sometimes they can't control their bodies at 18 miles an hour in the split second after an opponent ducks his head. You lean on media cronies and convince them to spin stories your way. You hope and pray nobody notices, and that CTE awareness never moves into the mainstream. But meanwhile, your players are bigger and faster than ever, and they're colliding at speeds at which human beings aren't meant to collide.

Simmons is not on an island here. Even a back-pocket NFL guy like Peter KIng has pointed out the the NFL's inconsistency (see bolded above).

 

[Devine Intervention]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

What you meant to say is some people love the sport and its violent tough nature vs the people who look at it as a billion dollar business and how we can maximize our profits. This is why I dont care for Goodell. I love the sport the way it was intended to be played. Its supposed to be a tough violent game, and taking it out of it is taking away from the game itself. Same as MMA, its a violent sport, and if you take away the violent hitting and punching then you dont have a sport at all. At this rate it will turn into flag football, and as fun as that is as a sport its just not real football.

Goodell wants the game to be played like the Pro-bowl where nobody gets hurt, a huge offensive show, and alot of media attention. He wants a show that makes money, not good football. There is a reason the pro-bowl sucks, and thats because it has no intensity and violent nature.

Again, dont confuse this and talk about dirty hits. I am talking about tough game play that is clean. I think cleaning out a WR who dares go across the middle on a defense is a great play by both players. Its great that the WR has the balls to attempt it and great that the DB drops him. And at the end of the game you shake hands and congratulate each other. That's football to me. Yeah, there are risk of injury but you get paid MILLIONS! I'll trade spots with them if they want.

 

[cobalt_27]

Definitely not a staff-worthy thread.

How many years has he been vying for a FBG staff gig now? I'm beginning to develop a Chris Yandek-esque level of sympathy for him. They both try so hard.

 

[massraider]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

What you meant to say is some people love the sport and its violent tough nature vs the people who look at it as a billion dollar business and how we can maximize our profits. This is why I dont care for Goodell. I love the sport the way it was intended to be played. Its supposed to be a tough violent game, and taking it out of it is taking away from the game itself. Same as MMA, its a violent sport, and if you take away the violent hitting and punching then you dont have a sport at all. At this rate it will turn into flag football, and as fun as that is as a sport its just not real football.

Goodell wants the game to be played like the Pro-bowl where nobody gets hurt, a huge offensive show, and alot of media attention. He wants a show that makes money, not good football. There is a reason the pro-bowl sucks, and thats because it has no intensity and violent nature.

Again, dont confuse this and talk about dirty hits. I am talking about tough game play that is clean. I think cleaning out a WR who dares go across the middle on a defense is a great play by both players. Its great that the WR has the balls to attempt it and great that the DB drops him. And at the end of the game you shake hands and congratulate each other. That's football to me. Yeah, there are risk of injury but you get paid MILLIONS! I'll trade spots with them if they want.

Going after people's ACL's and paying money for injuries? I don't care to see that. It doesn't add a Damn thing to what I like about the NFL. If this new wussy NFL makes certain fans stop watching, then good riddance. A lot of people talk a lot tougher when its someone else's life expectancy being cut short by 30 years.

 

[GregR]

...

Well, Simmons thought about it some more and posted this at his site. Some excerpts:

The league never turned off its "We're gonna look the other way, keep being violent and keep those hits coming" switch until the 2010 season, after that infamous October weekend with all the signature hits, when Roger Goodell said, "Oh, crap, maybe I should start fining these guys because the Sports Legacy Institute has accumulated three-plus years of rock-solid concussion evidence and lawsuits are coming. Better later than never!"

And so the league started cracking down. Less than 18 months later, we're supposed to be baffled and appalled that the Saints would shrug off those warnings, that they wanted to win money for crippling opponents or knocking them out … you know, because football players aren't supposed to think that way or something. (Watching ESPN this morning was pretty funny — it's like every talking head took an oath to forget the network was running "JACKED UP!" segments a few scant years ago.)

I think we should always be baffled and appalled when a person wants to win money for crippling someone else.

 

[cobalt_27]

I can't believe people are so concrete to think there is hypocrisy in cheering on physical play while simultaneously denouncing deliberate intent to injure another player. There is a lot of real estate between these two concepts, yet some people seem to think they are one in the same.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I can't believe people are so concrete to think there is hypocrisy in cheering on physical play while simultaneously denouncing deliberate intent to injure another player. There is a lot of real estate between these two concepts, yet some people seem to think they are one in the same.

And I would like to add that I am in no way shape or form condoning or endorsing violence in the game for the sake of injuring another player. I want a good clean hard hitting football game and when the refs and Goodell stay out of it for the most part that is exactly what you get with some exceptions. How many of those flags thrown for hits levied by Safeties last year were actually violations of the rules? Maybe half? Late hits on Quarterbacks?

 

[cobalt_27]

I can't believe people are so concrete to think there is hypocrisy in cheering on physical play while simultaneously denouncing deliberate intent to injure another player. There is a lot of real estate between these two concepts, yet some people seem to think they are one in the same.

And I would like to add that I am in no way shape or form condoning or endorsing violence in the game for the sake of injuring another player. I want a good clean hard hitting football game and when the refs and Goodell stay out of it for the most part that is exactly what you get with some exceptions. How many of those flags thrown for hits levied by Safeties last year were actually violations of the rules? Maybe half? Late hits on Quarterbacks?

I don't know. What's your point?

 

[Devine Intervention]

In a sense, maybe there already is something of a "culture war" going on in the NFL right now. It's not Goodell vs. Owners/Players, though ... I think it's more like the old "football is violence" mindset versus the new "football is lucrative sports entertainment, so how can we clean it up and have more games?" mindset. Bountygate is but one battleground, while the back-&-forth with James Harrison is another.

What you meant to say is some people love the sport and its violent tough nature vs the people who look at it as a billion dollar business and how we can maximize our profits. This is why I dont care for Goodell. I love the sport the way it was intended to be played. Its supposed to be a tough violent game, and taking it out of it is taking away from the game itself. Same as MMA, its a violent sport, and if you take away the violent hitting and punching then you dont have a sport at all. At this rate it will turn into flag football, and as fun as that is as a sport its just not real football.

Goodell wants the game to be played like the Pro-bowl where nobody gets hurt, a huge offensive show, and alot of media attention. He wants a show that makes money, not good football. There is a reason the pro-bowl sucks, and thats because it has no intensity and violent nature.

Again, dont confuse this and talk about dirty hits. I am talking about tough game play that is clean. I think cleaning out a WR who dares go across the middle on a defense is a great play by both players. Its great that the WR has the balls to attempt it and great that the DB drops him. And at the end of the game you shake hands and congratulate each other. That's football to me. Yeah, there are risk of injury but you get paid MILLIONS! I'll trade spots with them if they want.

Going after people's ACL's and paying money for injuries? I don't care to see that. It doesn't add a Damn thing to what I like about the NFL. If this new wussy NFL makes certain fans stop watching, then good riddance. A lot of people talk a lot tougher when its someone else's life expectancy being cut short by 30 years.

No, this wussy NFL is one where you can't touch a QB, or hit a WR. In no way did I say anything about purposely blowing out someone's knee or paying for injuries. Im talking about taking away clean hits. The worse thing I ever seen ways years back when Vince Young was playing the Giants and the DE was literally AFRAID to take the QB down to not get penalized, he held him up for a second, let him go, and Young threw for a first down and ended up winning the game. Come on, its football and the lineman are afraid to hit a QB! So are you saying the only way to make this league a non-'wussy' league is to let them take cheap shots at each other? Cause i'm sure the league could still be tough and violent with clean hard hits. Not throwing a flag every time someone grazes a QB or bumps a WR would be nice.

 

[Geekjock]

You guys are 97 posts into this thread and I'm the first guy to point out that this defense of the players who executed Greg Williams' destructive agenda is being posted by a guy who calls himself "Ministry of Pain"? Seriously? Is there not an obvious agenda here?

I'm with Amanai Toomer - NFL players need to take a cue from the late Eazy-E and realize "We're all in the same gang". These guys work way too hard to become and remain NFL players, for someone else to try to injure them is ####### disgraceful.

 

[cobalt_27]

You guys are 97 posts into this thread and I'm the first guy to point out that this defense of the players who executed Greg Williams' destructive agenda is being posted by a guy who calls himself "Ministry of Pain"? Seriously? Is there not an obvious agenda here?I'm with Amanai Toomer - NFL players need to take a cue from the late Eazy-E and realize "We're all in the same gang". These guys work way too hard to become and remain NFL players, for someone else to try to injure them is ####### disgraceful.

His alias is timchchochet, who can be found in the FFA. Bottom line, two voluminous writers here. They have the constant need to hear themselves talk ans write. They set up polls and posts that are supposed to be edgey and stuff.

 

[Widbil83]

When these suspensions start coming for players which I am adamantly against since it was the coaches who put the orders in and players were just following orders. You can debate it, if it sickens you what they did, more power to you. I don't condone it but I'm fine with Goodell going after the coaches and GM for now. I think the punishments are harsh but as long as the folks being punished are taking it on the chin for the players involved, I'm fine with it. The President of the Players' Union was very vocal about Goodell seeming like he had already reached some decisions and punishments for players. If Goodell suspended players for a year like he did with Payton, or even half a season...this could really be the tipping point for some of these guys. I do feel like I am in the minority camp these days with a bad taste in my mouth for what Goodell has done. A lot of posters however in the last year have bought in hook line and sinker to what Goodell has done to the game. He really had to take a backseat last year with the lockout and now it seems he is out for blood. Goodell caters to the casual fan and doesn't give 2 spits about the hard core NFL fans and maybe eventually people will get their fill of this and see that Goodell does not care about the players, just the almighty $$$. I don't like it, I'm getting tired of it, and at some point some of us are going to go away. Some already have although ratings I'm sure do not reflect that. I can get behind a league that is looking out for player safety but it's a load of horsespit and I have been very vocal that if they really care about the players they will put in weight restriction limits so we don't have 360 lb Nose Tackles falling on 200 lb RBs. The spread over the last 25 years has gotten way out of control and the players destroy their bodies, many of them die early in life from a variety of medical conditions. So don't sit there on your high horse feeling better for quenching your thrist for blood, the same as the Romans did 2,000 years ago, you cannot sit there with a straight face and say that Goodell is genuinely concerned about the players...he is concerned for certain players, elite QBs that pack the stadiums and TV ratings. It's going to take a few key media and sports pundits to get vocal about this and show Goodell for what he really is. For now things seem rosy but guys like Gruden last year going toe to toe with Tirico in the booth. Now we have to allow the receivers a chance to catch the ball and make a football move...so then we should allow RBs to get a full head of steam going and not touch them until they reach the LOS right? Let's just put flags on the players and run a 7 on 7 which will slash payrolls and then they can just run 5 WRs out every play and the QBs can throw for 7,500 yds and 60 TDs. That's crazy talk, no one would ever change the game into a strictly passing league where the fundamental idea of moving an oblong ball made of pigskin 3-4 yds at a time with grown men fighting and scrumming along the line on both sides of the ball...that would never change would it?

MoP shouuld get a medal for this!

 

[griff321]

i dont even think you know what a civil war is go listen to roland the headless tomson gunner and you will have a better idea but until then you are not norways favorite sun and will probably never understand the plight of the congolese so this thread should not throw around the term civil war so lightly take that from here to johannasburg to the bank there brohan

It's not very eloquent, but a very good point nonetheless. MOP, you should strongly consider changing the title of the thread.