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bro1ncos

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Eight round totaled eight RBs taken, several of whom would have fit in nicely on my roster.

Current Holloway team

QB - Roethlisberger (4) and Bradford (9)

RB - McCoy (7) and Lynch (11)

WR - Marshall (6), Boldin (8) and S. Moss (10)

TE - Daniels (8) and Keller (9)

:popcorn:

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7.01 AB in DC - Carson Palmer - QB15 - OAK

8.16 AB in DC - Christian Ponder - QB23 - MIN

1.01 AB in DC - Arian Foster - RB1 - HOU

3.01 AB in DC - DeMarco Murray - RB13 - DAL

9.01 AB in DC - Jacquizz Rodgers - RB44 - ATL

2.16 AB in DC - Victor Cruz - WR9 - NYG

4.16 AB in DC - Antonio Brown - WR22 - PIT

5.01 AB in DC - Steve Johnson - WR23 - BUF

6.16 AB in DC - Kellen Winslow - TE15 - TBB

Considering how long I waited on QBs, I can't ask for anything better than what I got at 7.01/8.16. All I need is for them to be average most weeks, and let Foster and the WRs carry the team. Overall, I'm very happy with the value I've gotten for my picks -- most everyone here was drafted earlier in SSL1/SSL2, or listed higher on the FBG staff rankings. I may have to scramble for some TE depth in the later rounds, but otherwise this looks pretty solid.

.

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7.01 AB in DC - Carson Palmer - QB15 - OAK

8.16 AB in DC - Christian Ponder - QB23 - MIN

1.01 AB in DC - Arian Foster - RB1 - HOU

3.01 AB in DC - DeMarco Murray - RB13 - DAL

9.01 AB in DC - Jacquizz Rodgers - RB44 - ATL

2.16 AB in DC - Victor Cruz - WR9 - NYG

4.16 AB in DC - Antonio Brown - WR22 - PIT

5.01 AB in DC - Steve Johnson - WR23 - BUF

6.16 AB in DC - Kellen Winslow - TE15 - TBB

Considering how long I waited on QBs, I can't ask for anything better than what I got at 7.01/8.16. All I need is for them to be average most weeks, and let Foster and the WRs carry the team. Overall, I'm very happy with the value I've gotten for my picks -- most everyone here was drafted earlier in SSL1/SSL2, or listed higher on the FBG staff rankings. I may have to scramble for some TE depth in the later rounds, but otherwise this looks pretty solid.

.

Does everyone just talk about their own team? :unsure::shrug:

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Comments (sort of by request) on Team Phenix

1.10 Phenix - Tom Brady - QB4 - NEP (9)

Really like Brady and he could be top three, but need a back-up plan and those are rapidly diminishing

4.07 Phenix - Reggie Bush - RB19 - MIA (7)

6.07 Phenix - Jahvid Best - RB30 - DET (5)

Not a fan of your RBs at all. R. Bush should be involved, but there are two more capable RBs on the Phins and Best if he returns to form provides value, but there is risk with him and his concussions.

2.07 Phenix - Hakeem Nicks - WR6 - NYG (11)

5.10 Phenix - DeSean Jackson - WR25 - PHI (7)

7.10 Phenix - Lance Moore - WR38 - NOS (6)

Studville in WR land. I like both Jackson and Moore better in best ball than other formats and they will both have huge weeks. Big fan of Nicks as an early selection and you got great value at 2.7

3.10 Phenix - Jermichael Finley - TE6 - GBP (10)

Quality talent, but not a guy I would want to fly solo with.

Overall, very solid start and if you get better production at RB than I expect, this team could go far. No bye week issues either.

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

I can't be the one ripping on your depth picks as I also have 2 QBs, 2 RBs, 3 WRs, and 2 TEs. I agree that the season long capabilities for the remaining QBs are suspect. Middle of the draft is definitely my preferred location in 16 teamers as you can occasionally draft value. Near the end, you have a tendency to commit to your current weakness or go with what you perceive to be where positional runs are coming.

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Me neither. If JRodgers had been off the board before my picks, I would have taken a 2d TE over a backup RB/WR too.

Here's the way I look at having back-to-back picks at the end of one round / beginning of the next in a 16-team draft. In short, you have to minimize your disadvantage from being at the end of one round but then turn around and maximize your advantage of being at the start of the next:

1. Your first pick has to be pure value, someone who fell to your spot who shouldn't have. This can happen anywhere in a draft, but since there's basically no way that you'll get two big values falling to you at the end of round, people picking in the middle of the round will have twice the opportunities to do so than you will. So you have to take advantage of those opportunities regardless of what you might think you need on your roster.

2. For your second pick, you need to anticipate the next position run and get out ahead of it. Obviously that's much harder to do in practice than in theory, but ADP (and prior SSLs) are your friend here. There could be 30 picks after yours before you come up again, so you have to figure out (or guess) where the biggest dropoffs will be. Again, something that you should do at any draft slot, but it's doubly important at the turns. And if you get a solid player at the right position, at the right time before a big run, you'll be sitting pretty while half the other teams will be panning for fool's gold.

Bottom line is that, at the #1 or #2 slot, you have to judge your draft based on your picks in odd-numbered rounds. If they aren't significantly better than other teams' picks that round, then you've had a bad draft. For the #15 or #16 slot, you need to win the even-numbered rounds. Otherwise, you're going to struggle all year unless you hit on a bunch of sleeper gambles.

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4.10 CommuterMan - Peyton Manning - QB11 - DEN (7)

8.10 CommuterMan - Joe Flacco - QB21 - BAL (8)

1.07 CommuterMan - Maurice Jones-Drew - RB4 - JAC (6)

2.10 CommuterMan - Frank Gore - RB10 - SFO (9)

6.10 CommuterMan - DeAngelo Williams - RB31 - CAR (6)

7.07 CommuterMan - Isacc Redman - RB33 - PIT (4)

3.07 CommuterMan - Dez Bryant - WR13 - DAL (5)

5.07 CommuterMan - Jeremy Maclin - WR24 - PHI (7)

9.07 CommuterMan - Titus Young - WR46 - DET (5)

Halfway thru and I like my start!! :thumbup:

QB - Peyton wants to prove that he still has the skills of an elite QB and I think that he can show it in Mile High. Flacco believes he is an elite QB and maybe on some weeks he'll show it over 16 games. All I know is that if both stay healthy, I like the mix.

RB - Was not my plan to go heavy on RBs but this grouping should provide great depth throughout the season. MJD and Gore are stud RBs on teams that run the ball often and effectively. I'm not sure what to expect from Williams and honestly I still hold hope that Carolina trades him sometime this spring to a team that will give him the chance to run the ball. Redman is the new battering-ram in Pittsburgh and will get plenty of goal line opportunities.

WR - This is the 2nd survivor league where I have drafted Bryant as my top receiver. I am hoping that he finally matures and becomes the WR that reflects the talent and skills that scouts have clamored to see since he came into the NFL. Maclin is healthy again and should be the security blanket for Vick once more in Philadelphia. I like Young's chances to put up solid numbers in this his 2nd year starting opposite CJ.

Like my other survivor drafts I get to the mid point and I look at my roster and try to figure-out why I have yet to draft a TE... and I keep coming to the same conclusion. After the top 5 or 6 TEs are off the board the rest of the TEs are pretty indistinguishable in my opinion and even with the added scoring awarded to TEs it just doesn't seem right to draft a TE over other positional players. Ahhhh - maybe that's why I am here in SSL4 with MOP and not in the big leagues :unsure:

Anyway best of luck to all in the second have of the draft!

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7.01 AB in DC - Carson Palmer - QB15 - OAK

8.16 AB in DC - Christian Ponder - QB23 - MIN

1.01 AB in DC - Arian Foster - RB1 - HOU

3.01 AB in DC - DeMarco Murray - RB13 - DAL

9.01 AB in DC - Jacquizz Rodgers - RB44 - ATL

2.16 AB in DC - Victor Cruz - WR9 - NYG

4.16 AB in DC - Antonio Brown - WR22 - PIT

5.01 AB in DC - Steve Johnson - WR23 - BUF

6.16 AB in DC - Kellen Winslow - TE15 - TBB

Considering how long I waited on QBs, I can't ask for anything better than what I got at 7.01/8.16. All I need is for them to be average most weeks, and let Foster and the WRs carry the team. Overall, I'm very happy with the value I've gotten for my picks -- most everyone here was drafted earlier in SSL1/SSL2, or listed higher on the FBG staff rankings. I may have to scramble for some TE depth in the later rounds, but otherwise this looks pretty solid.

.

Does everyone just talk about their own team? :unsure::shrug:
I used to go team by team...however this draft has been very enjoyable for everyone, we have a couple new folks, no reason for MOP to start taking a blowtorch to some teams. I have some questions but when you look at the teams that won last year, 2 or 3 of them had Gronkowski at TE...I'm not saying it is luck but a handful of players make the difference really.

I guess I could highlight the ones I like but I never like anyone's more than mine or else I would have drafted those players...I clearly show I'm not concerned as much about ADP as I am about getting "my guys".

Best SSL I have ever taken part in, my draft might suck but I have had a really good time.

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

(Should we tell him that he can find that out by looking at the other 2-3 leagues and where they took the next 28 players?)

"Shut up MOP!"

(OK, yeah no reason to point that out)

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

(Should we tell him that he can find that out by looking at the other 2-3 leagues and where they took the next 28 players?)

"Shut up MOP!"

(OK, yeah no reason to point that out)

That didn't work out for me to well on QB 2. Luck went early, Palmer didn't drop a little and the next three drafted had the same bye as Schaub.

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

(Should we tell him that he can find that out by looking at the other 2-3 leagues and where they took the next 28 players?)

"Shut up MOP!"

(OK, yeah no reason to point that out)

But the other SSL leagues don't use the same drafting strategies as used in SSL4 :unsure:

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Someone can feel free to rip me for taking backups at positions that only require 1 starter before taking backup RB/WRs. I was going purly on positional runs. Dont care for the TEs left and only a few QBs Id want. Hopefully I can hit on some late round guys. Its tough trying to predict the next 28 picks. I love middle picks in big leagues like this. Easier to adjust to the flow of the draft.

(Should we tell him that he can find that out by looking at the other 2-3 leagues and where they took the next 28 players?)

"Shut up MOP!"

(OK, yeah no reason to point that out)

But the other SSL leagues don't use the same drafting strategies as used in SSL4 :unsure:
True, but it was a good barometer for me to figure out who would hurt the most if they got taken before I picked again.

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Regarding CommuterMan - I love your RBs and they will likely be top three in the league, but not having a TE until at earliest the 10th round and after 20 or more are gone in a 2 point ppr league for them would scare me to death. I am not a huge Dez Bryant fan either and would not like having him for WR 1 at all. Primarily because of your excellent depth at RB, I would not like drafting from that base the rest of the way.

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Any guess who is the "worst" pick so far according to ADP, meaning the player with the lowest ADP that has been selected?

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Any guess who is the "worst" pick so far according to ADP, meaning the player with the lowest ADP that has been selected?
Worse at the spot they were taken or worse as of now?

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Any guess who is the "worst" pick so far according to ADP, meaning the player with the lowest ADP that has been selected?
Rashard Mendenhall went 15.10 in SSL1 and still hasn't been drafted in SSL2. (Though frankly, that seems awfully late...if Mendenhall is only worth a 15th round pick, then Isaac Redman should be a 5th rounder at worst.)

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Any guess who is the "worst" pick so far according to ADP, meaning the player with the lowest ADP that has been selected?
Worse at the spot they were taken or worse as of now?
Not necessarily judging the biggest reach, just the lowest ranked player that has been drafted, according to current ADP.

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I had a couple of RB sleepers that I was planning to take around 10th or 11th round and they are long gone. Maybe it would be better if some of y'all paid closer attention to ADP so that my guys could slide like they were supposed to.

Any guess who is the "worst" pick so far according to ADP, meaning the player with the lowest ADP that has been selected?
Worse at the spot they were taken or worse as of now?
Not necessarily judging the biggest reach, just the lowest ranked player that has been drafted, according to current ADP.
For RB, I would guess Vereen (my pick) or Kendall Hunter.

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Mendenhall was one that I wanted to draft, but waited too late.

To answer jeter23's question, I'd like to review.

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S Moss, who I suspected was the answer, Ponder, and Rudolph. Were some of the lower ADPs that I found with a quick look.

Obviously I think that Moss will do better than predicted.

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S Moss, who I suspected was the answer, Ponder, and Rudolph. Were some of the lower ADPs that I found with a quick look.Obviously I think that Moss will do better than predicted.

It is Moss that I was referring to and I also think he will do better than many expect. I just thought it was funny that the guy who made that pick was complaining about others reaching and not drafting according to ADP.

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Gotta take some of these ADP rankings with a grain of salt. Draft value looks a lot different in a best ball, 16-team, draft-only league than in a standard, 12-team league that allows waiver pickups.

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Gotta take some of these ADP rankings with a grain of salt. Draft value looks a lot different in a best ball, 16-team, draft-only league than in a standard, 12-team league that allows waiver pickups.

Totally agree and Moss is traditionally a better option in best ball format. If anyone else had made the comment, I would not have thought about it. I just remembered how far down my list I had to go to mark off Moss :P

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Gotta take some of these ADP rankings with a grain of salt. Draft value looks a lot different in a best ball, 16-team, draft-only league than in a standard, 12-team league that allows waiver pickups.

Totally agree and Moss is traditionally a better option in best ball format. If anyone else had made the comment, I would not have thought about it. I just remembered how far down my list I had to go to mark off Moss :P
I'm still looking. :excited:

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S Moss, who I suspected was the answer, Ponder, and Rudolph. Were some of the lower ADPs that I found with a quick look.Obviously I think that Moss will do better than predicted.

It is Moss that I was referring to and I also think he will do better than many expect. I just thought it was funny that the guy who made that pick was complaining about others reaching and not drafting according to ADP.
But you see the difference was that the others were taking my RBs, it is not nearly the same when you get the guy you want.

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I was eyeballing Jake Locker, would like to hear from Go Pack on his reasons for the pick. Also the Tim Tebow pick I thought was interesting.

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I was eyeballing Jake Locker, would like to hear from Go Pack on his reasons for the pick. Also the Tim Tebow pick I thought was interesting.

If he didn't take him, I was going to...makes an interesting backup QB...at "worst" he runs a few plays a game and gets you 5-9 points...no other backup QB (as of today) is a guarantee to provide even one point during the season. With that said, now that he did pass, I am thrilled to have Heath Miller as my backup TE...177 points last year in our scoring model.

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fyi - I'll be adjusting the clock as needed next week to get you guys done by Memorial Day weekend.

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I think that folks are misremembering the drop off that Steve Smith had in 2010. Most abused him for resigning in Carolina in the summer of 2011 after the Panthers had drafted Cam Newton at #1 overall. Almost every dynasty owner bemoaned Smith resigning as it was felt that his value was forever gone, due to his previous production dip with poor QB play in 2010 and now being hooked up long term with the rookie.

I am not saying that RG III will produce rookie numbers in 2012 similar to Newton, primarily because his numbers were unprecedented. However, I do believe that RG III is a solid QB and with the recent rookie success by QBs, he could produce startable QB numbers. If he can, then who will be the guy on the receiving end for the Redskins?

Davis could be a nice target and Cooley returns so he might supplement to give a solid TE team. At WR, you have Garcon coming in to join Moss and possibly Hankerson. If Moss indeed shifts to the slot or plays both outside and the slot, I see him as the most likely candidate to lead the Redskins in receptions.

What are others' thoughts on Redskin receivers? :popcorn:

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I think that folks are misremembering the drop off that Steve Smith had in 2010. Most abused him for resigning in Carolina in the summer of 2011 after the Panthers had drafted Cam Newton at #1 overall. Almost every dynasty owner bemoaned Smith resigning as it was felt that his value was forever gone, due to his previous production dip with poor QB play in 2010 and now being hooked up long term with the rookie.

I am not saying that RG III will produce rookie numbers in 2012 similar to Newton, primarily because his numbers were unprecedented. However, I do believe that RG III is a solid QB and with the recent rookie success by QBs, he could produce startable QB numbers. If he can, then who will be the guy on the receiving end for the Redskins?

Davis could be a nice target and Cooley returns so he might supplement to give a solid TE team. At WR, you have Garcon coming in to join Moss and possibly Hankerson. If Moss indeed shifts to the slot or plays both outside and the slot, I see him as the most likely candidate to lead the Redskins in receptions.

What are others' thoughts on Redskin receivers? :popcorn:

I'll bite since I laughed ....at this

9.3 Santana Moss WR WSH

Santana Moss and RG III 12 = Steve Smith and Cam Newton 11

Best thing that happened to Moss was Gaffney leaving or he may have been on the bubble and would have saved WAS about 3 mil I think. You didn’t mention anything about Josh Morgan also being in town. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Armstrong, Moss, Davis, Cooley. Some options/mouths to feed. Newton fed the ball to Smith since outside of Olsen that’s about all he had until LaFell came on a little. Thinking that Moss is going to have a 2011 Steve Smith type season is a little over the top. Nice to be optimistic but predicting that huge of a season is crazy IMO.

Had their sniffing around Eddie Royal turned out to be more than sniffing, Moss would have been (and still may be) gonzo. Pretty obvious they were looking to upgrade at his spot.

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fyi - I'll be adjusting the clock as needed next week to get you guys done by Memorial Day weekend.

NP BnB, FYI...almost all of the picks have been very timely. We should be thru round 14 I imagine by Sunday or close to it...doubt you will have to speed things up. :lightsup:

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fyi - I'll be adjusting the clock as needed next week to get you guys done by Memorial Day weekend.

NP BnB, FYI...almost all of the picks have been very timely. We should be thru round 14 I imagine by Sunday or close to it...doubt you will have to speed things up. :lightsup:
Yup...you guys are doing very well. Just wanted to give a heads up in case things bog down.

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earlier y'all were grabbing my sleeper RBs and now you shift over to the WRs - manningham, ford, l robinson & hankerson

Looking over the teams, there is minimal separation, really good drafting overall in my opinion

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S Moss, who I suspected was the answer, Ponder, and Rudolph. Were some of the lower ADPs that I found with a quick look.Obviously I think that Moss will do better than predicted.

As do I with Mr. Hankerson, love the upside here.

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I think that folks are misremembering the drop off that Steve Smith had in 2010. Most abused him for resigning in Carolina in the summer of 2011 after the Panthers had drafted Cam Newton at #1 overall. Almost every dynasty owner bemoaned Smith resigning as it was felt that his value was forever gone, due to his previous production dip with poor QB play in 2010 and now being hooked up long term with the rookie.

I am not saying that RG III will produce rookie numbers in 2012 similar to Newton, primarily because his numbers were unprecedented. However, I do believe that RG III is a solid QB and with the recent rookie success by QBs, he could produce startable QB numbers. If he can, then who will be the guy on the receiving end for the Redskins?

Davis could be a nice target and Cooley returns so he might supplement to give a solid TE team. At WR, you have Garcon coming in to join Moss and possibly Hankerson. If Moss indeed shifts to the slot or plays both outside and the slot, I see him as the most likely candidate to lead the Redskins in receptions.

What are others' thoughts on Redskin receivers? :popcorn:

I'll bite since I laughed ....at this

9.3 Santana Moss WR WSH

Santana Moss and RG III 12 = Steve Smith and Cam Newton 11

Best thing that happened to Moss was Gaffney leaving or he may have been on the bubble and would have saved WAS about 3 mil I think. You didn’t mention anything about Josh Morgan also being in town. Garcon, Morgan, Hankerson, Armstrong, Moss, Davis, Cooley. Some options/mouths to feed. Newton fed the ball to Smith since outside of Olsen that’s about all he had until LaFell came on a little. Thinking that Moss is going to have a 2011 Steve Smith type season is a little over the top. Nice to be optimistic but predicting that huge of a season is crazy IMO.

Had their sniffing around Eddie Royal turned out to be more than sniffing, Moss would have been (and still may be) gonzo. Pretty obvious they were looking to upgrade at his spot.

Holloway....?.... :popcorn:

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Kicker run starting early.. Def run already cost me a player

Yeah, I just didn't like anyone left on the board at RB or D, and 13.01 seemed too early to think about a QB3, TE3, or WR6 who may not hit my starting lineup more than two or three times a season. So kicker was all that was left.

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Kicker run starting early.. Def run already cost me a player

Yeah, I just didn't like anyone left on the board at RB or D, and 13.01 seemed too early to think about a QB3, TE3, or WR6 who may not hit my starting lineup more than two or three times a season. So kicker was all that was left.
I figured we got got the end of the D/ST run. Mind as well get the top of the Kicker run to offset that. Im assuming everyone is going to have to take two of each so Im thinking there will be this run on D and K and a later run. Need to get some while they're left.

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Sorry for the delayed response, been working all day in the yard wih my wife.

Response to Stinkin Ref regarding my comparison of Griffin and Moss to last year's turnaround by Steve Smith with Rookie quarterback Cam Newton.

I am not expecting Griffin to produce similar to Cam Newton. However the improvement for the veteran receiver even when teamed with a rookie quarterback seems reasonable to me.

Steve Smith finished ranked as WR #16, #5, and #19 in 07, 08 and 09. However injuries combined with atrocious quarterback play for the Panthers in 2010 and Steve Smith only managed 100 targets 46 catches 554 yards and 2 TDs in 14 games. All dynasty owners wanted Smith a free agent to move on to a better opportunity and were extremely disappointed when he resigned with the Panthers who had already selected Cam Newton. His ADP slid down considerably as he entered the season at 32 years old and most owners a year ago had a pleasant surprise as Smith rebounded with 79 catches on 129 targets for 1394 yards and 9 TDs finishing as WR #6.

Now, compare to Santana Moss who finished as WR # 17, #33 and #18 in 08, 09, and 10. Then in 2011, he missed ofur games and was teamed with atrocious quarterback play to register 95 targets, 46 catches for 584 yards and 4 TDs. Almost exactly Smith's numbers in two less games.

He enters 2012 at33 years old.

I can definitely see him as the Redskins top receiver this year and drafting him at 9.3 and WR 43 seems like a solid play despite current ADP much lower.

Others must have more faith in Josh Morgan (career year 52 catches) and Hankerson with 13 career receptions.

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Sorry for the delayed response, been working all day in the yard wih my wife.Response to Stinkin Ref regarding my comparison of Griffin and Moss to last year's turnaround by Steve Smith with Rookie quarterback Cam Newton.I am not expecting Griffin to produce similar to Cam Newton. However the improvement for the veteran receiver even when teamed with a rookie quarterback seems reasonable to me.Steve Smith finished ranked as WR #16, #5, and #19 in 07, 08 and 09. However injuries combined with atrocious quarterback play for the Panthers in 2010 and Steve Smith only managed 100 targets 46 catches 554 yards and 2 TDs in 14 games. All dynasty owners wanted Smith a free agent to move on to a better opportunity and were extremely disappointed when he resigned with the Panthers who had already selected Cam Newton. His ADP slid down considerably as he entered the season at 32 years old and most owners a year ago had a pleasant surprise as Smith rebounded with 79 catches on 129 targets for 1394 yards and 9 TDs finishing as WR #6.Now, compare to Santana Moss who finished as WR # 17, #33 and #18 in 08, 09, and 10. Then in 2011, he missed ofur games and was teamed with atrocious quarterback play to register 95 targets, 46 catches for 584 yards and 4 TDs. Almost exactly Smith's numbers in two less games.He enters 2012 at33 years old.I can definitely see him as the Redskins top receiver this year and drafting him at 9.3 and WR 43 seems like a solid play despite current ADP much lower.Others must have more faith in Josh Morgan (career year 52 catches) and Hankerson with 13 career receptions.

don't really mean to say it this way, but Sanatana Moss ain't no Steve Smith and while I am all for going out on a limb.....predicting basically 80/1400/9 for Moss is ......welll.... :crazy: guess we'll see....but I really think comparing the numbers and what not about where they finished in 2007 thru 2009 and somehow thinking that has anything to do with their present situation and thinking that has any affect on where these two different guys will finish this year is kind of whacked.....sometimes I think we go searching for things in past numbers to help justify something when what is going on in the current situation is what is really important....I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could make Ryan Leaf look like Brett Favre for a short time somehow....

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I can definitely see him (Moss) as the Redskins top receiver this year and drafting him at 9.3 and WR 43 seems like a solid play despite current ADP much lower.

INSERT - I am not thinking he will match Steve Smith's production at all, just that he will be worthy of WR 43 production, similar to the improvement pattern listed. END INSERT

Others must have more faith in Josh Morgan (career year 52 catches) and Hankerson with 13 career receptions.

don't really mean to say it this way, but Sanatana Moss ain't no Steve Smith and while I am all for going out on a limb.....predicting basically

80/1400/9 for Moss is ......welll.... :crazy: Never thought this at all

guess we'll see....but I really think comparing the numbers and what not about where they finished in 2007 thru 2009 and somehow thinking that has anything to do with their present situation and thinking that has any affect on where these two different guys will finish this year is kind of whacked.....sometimes I think we go searching for things in past numbers to help justify something when what is going on in the current situation is what is really important....I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could make Ryan Leaf look like Brett Favre for a short time somehow....

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Why is everyone arguing over which player someone picked? If you don't like someones player, be happy they picked him, because if you're right, then likely said player will be the downfall of their team..

Sounds more like sour grapes to me though..

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Why is everyone arguing over which player someone picked? If you don't like someones player, be happy they picked him, because if you're right, then likely said player will be the downfall of their team..Sounds more like sour grapes to me though..

I got the impression they know each other and are just going back and forth. Otherwise it makes no sense to me either. After the 9th round or so these are all crap shoot picks anyways.

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From my point of view, I am just doing my best to explain my perspective on the pick and respond to all comments. I think that these drafts help all participants to see how others rank and value both positions and players.

Hopefully discussing rather than arguing. All with the thought of preparing for this season's fantasy drafts.

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