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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (3 Viewers)

Reading through some really fun articles from The Athletic today. I had totally forgotten that Trump wanted to buy the Bills. Can you imagine if he had? Not just that it would have completely changed what the organization looks like, but if he had, I think there would legitimately be a chance that he never ran for President. Let that sink in. 
 

I don’t want anyone to actually answer because inevitably it would lead to a downward spiral and one of the longest running threads on the board getting axed, but no matter where you fall as to how you view Trump, would you take the trade off of Trump being the owner of the Bills instead of being POTUS?

 
Reading through some really fun articles from The Athletic today. I had totally forgotten that Trump wanted to buy the Bills. Can you imagine if he had? Not just that it would have completely changed what the organization looks like, but if he had, I think there would legitimately be a chance that he never ran for President. Let that sink in. 
 

I don’t want anyone to actually answer because inevitably it would lead to a downward spiral and one of the longest running threads on the board getting axed, but no matter where you fall as to how you view Trump, would you take the trade off of Trump being the owner of the Bills instead of being POTUS?
Well, if he did buy the Bills they wouldn't have stayed in Buffalo for long - no way he would have kept the team here any longer than he had to

 
Reading through some really fun articles from The Athletic today. I had totally forgotten that Trump wanted to buy the Bills. Can you imagine if he had? Not just that it would have completely changed what the organization looks like, but if he had, I think there would legitimately be a chance that he never ran for President. Let that sink in. 
 

I don’t want anyone to actually answer because inevitably it would lead to a downward spiral and one of the longest running threads on the board getting axed, but no matter where you fall as to how you view Trump, would you take the trade off of Trump being the owner of the Bills instead of being POTUS?
Between Trump and Jon Bon Jovi, we dodged some bullets.

 
Biggest game left is against the Steelers. If they win that they’re just about locks for playoffs. 
 

Also, need to root for the Steelers this week. They’re a mess so it doesn’t look good, but a Steelers win over Cleveland makes a big difference in their playoff chances.

 
Biggest game left is against the Steelers. If they win that they’re just about locks for playoffs. 
 

Also, need to root for the Steelers this week. They’re a mess so it doesn’t look good, but a Steelers win over Cleveland makes a big difference in their playoff chances.
8 Patriots are out with illness this week in advance of playing the Texans Sunday night, and their kicker had an emergency appendectomy and will miss the game. Then they play the chiefs the following week. If they stumble then week 16 could be for the division. 

 
@GroveDiesel still think you drafted the wrong Josh? Was thinking about the thread title yesterday... Allen looks great. Buffalo is finally out of its death spiral it seems. A buddy is a huge Bills fan so I've always hoped for their success. 

 
@GroveDiesel still think you drafted the wrong Josh? Was thinking about the thread title yesterday... Allen looks great. Buffalo is finally out of its death spiral it seems. A buddy is a huge Bills fan so I've always hoped for their success. 
I hope so.  I never thought Rosen was better than Allen, but I still have serious doubts about Allen being a winning player who is going to bring home playoff wins against excellent competition. 

I don't think they are really out of their death spiral either.  I'm sure Bills mafia will be out in force telling me how wrong I am, but it seems like this team has a built in ceiling where they are going to be good, but never great.  I think they are going to be like the Panthers with Cam Newton, maybe you make a super bowl once during his career, but winning it will be elusive. 

I'll go hide in my bunker now and wait for the shells to land 😁

 
I hope so.  I never thought Rosen was better than Allen, but I still have serious doubts about Allen being a winning player who is going to bring home playoff wins against excellent competition. 

I don't think they are really out of their death spiral either.  I'm sure Bills mafia will be out in force telling me how wrong I am, but it seems like this team has a built in ceiling where they are going to be good, but never great.  I think they are going to be like the Panthers with Cam Newton, maybe you make a super bowl once during his career, but winning it will be elusive. 

I'll go hide in my bunker now and wait for the shells to land 😁
I don't think you'll get a ton of the delusional "Bills Mafia" types on this board.

I thought Josh Rosen had a bright future, and did not want the Bills to pick Allen.  Clearly I was wrong on that front, but I am still not sold on Allen.  That said, he has been very productive this season and has only gotten better the past few weeks.  He is showing the clear growth that you need to see from a project QB, and I think we would all agree that he is playing better than expected at this point in his career.  I don't think he'll ever be a short/quick throw "modern-day prototype" in the mold of a Brady or Brees, but maybe he can be successful playing his own style.  I certainly hope so.

 
I don't think you'll get a ton of the delusional "Bills Mafia" types on this board.

I thought Josh Rosen had a bright future, and did not want the Bills to pick Allen.  Clearly I was wrong on that front, but I am still not sold on Allen.  That said, he has been very productive this season and has only gotten better the past few weeks.  He is showing the clear growth that you need to see from a project QB, and I think we would all agree that he is playing better than expected at this point in his career.  I don't think he'll ever be a short/quick throw "modern-day prototype" in the mold of a Brady or Brees, but maybe he can be successful playing his own style.  I certainly hope so.
Yup. He has progressed way more than I thought. And Rosen has been way worse than I thought. Honestly, I don’t have a clue what Josh Allen is going to be at this point. It’s still such a small sample size. But he has grown in areas that I didn’t think he could grow. I didn’t think that he could become more accurate and yet he has. I didn’t think that he would get the horrible hero ball out of him and since the Pats game he has turned the ball over very rarely and made very few dumb throws. I didn’t think the game would slow down enough for him and that he’d continue to hold the ball too long, and yet that number has been dropping throughout the season and he has been getting looking more sure of what he is seeing and getting rid of the ball more quickly. 
 

Maybe he does have a cap and the last few weeks have been more mirage than reality, but I’ll be honest, if his cap is Cam Newton, I’ll take it. Before wrecking his shoulder/body, Newton was an absolute monster. The kind of stress that a QB who can both run AND make plays with his arm puts on a defense can’t be duplicated.

 
All I know is, it was fun game to watch yesterday. Of course, with the wife being a huge Cowboy's fan, I had to keep my glee on the inside.

 
Heading into the draft, the two guys I really liked and wanted the Bills to get were Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  As a fan, I would have gotten on board with whoever they took, but those were the two I personally preferred.  So yeah, I was pleased when they took Josh, and he's done nothing so far to make me second guess that preference.  He's still a work in progress, but I'm a little baffled as to what more you need to see out of the guy at this point to think that he's going in the right direction.

(A whole bunch of us underrated Lamar Jackson.  I have zero confidence that the Bills would have used him properly if we had somehow taken him, but he's obviously been lights-out for Baltimore).

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Heading into the draft, the two guys I really liked and wanted the Bills to get were Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  As a fan, I would have gotten on board with whoever they took, but those were the two I personally preferred.  So yeah, I was pleased when they took Josh, and he's done nothing so far to make me second guess that preference.  He's still a work in progress, but I'm a little baffled as to what more you need to see out of the guy at this point to think that he's going in the right direction.

(A whole bunch of us underrated Lamar Jackson.  I have zero confidence that the Bills would have used him properly if we had somehow taken him, but he's obviously been lights-out for Baltimore).
Josh Allen looked a lot better Thursday than he did earlier in the season, so his progress seems clear.  The next three weeks - Baltimore, Pittsburgh and NE - will be interesting to watch as far as his play goes.  The Bills coaching staff has done a great job this season, with both Allen and the whole team.  :thumbup:   :thumbup:

 
Thursday was the first time this season I watched a Bills game. I'm gonna tell you what, guys. If that QB keeps playing like he did then, you got yourself something. I was extremely impressed. You can see him still want to get a little wild sometimes, but he played a fantastic game, IMO.

Buffalo kicked Dallas' ###. And that Ed Oliver is a freaking monster.

 
Really? Has he been bad?

He was a wrecking machine Thursday
He was pretty quiet up until a couple of weeks ago.  The last few games have been much better, and you're right that he played very well yesterday against what's supposed to be a good o-line.  It's always a little hard to gauge rookie DTs since they don't tend to put up stats anyway and it takes a little while sometimes for them to get used to the speed of the NFL.  A lot us absolutely loved Oliver heading into the draft, and we were elated to get him because he's talented and fits our scheme so well.  I think some of us -- me included -- were a little disappointed not to see more immediate impact right out of the gate.  Hopefully the last few weeks are a sign of what's to come.  

 
He was pretty quiet up until a couple of weeks ago.  The last few games have been much better, and you're right that he played very well yesterday against what's supposed to be a good o-line.  It's always a little hard to gauge rookie DTs since they don't tend to put up stats anyway and it takes a little while sometimes for them to get used to the speed of the NFL.  A lot us absolutely loved Oliver heading into the draft, and we were elated to get him because he's talented and fits our scheme so well.  I think some of us -- me included -- were a little disappointed not to see more immediate impact right out of the gate.  Hopefully the last few weeks are a sign of what's to come.  
All I know from watching that game was that he set the tone for it early and had his way with what's supposed to be a talented OL. You  could see Dallas was worried about him, which let some other guys get off.

 
Lots of good games with playoff implications today to fill the void left by the Bills having the weekend off.

Pittsburgh - Cleveland: I'm pretty sure we want the Steelers to win this one, which nearly eliminates Cleveland.  We can take care of Pit in a couple of weeks (hopefully).

Indianapolis - Tennessee: I'm not sure who to root for in this game.  Normally it would make the most sense to pull for the team that we have the tie-breaker over, but I would love to see the Colts win their division.  That would be an ideal first-round match-up for us IMO.  

Kansas City - Oakland: Another one that I have mixed feelings about.  On one hand, I would like to see a WC competitor knocked out of contention, so I should root for KC to beat Oakland.  On the other hand, I would strongly prefer seeing the Bills travel to Oakland for a playoff game versus travelling to KC, so I should root for Oakland.  This is another one like Ind-Ten that will have a really important influence on the playoffs, but I won't know what result I really want until a month from now.

Houston - New England: If I thought we were likely to win out, I would obviously pull for Houston.  But I still think the division is out of reach, and I would prefer that Houston not win their division. 

Looking forward to a fun afternoon of channel surfing, and no stress!

 
It breaks my heart to see Jacksonville blown out by 5-7 Tampa Bay.  I have it on good authority that Doug Marrone is a top-shelf HC in this league, and I hope Jacksonville doesn't do anything rash here like kicking this fraud to the curb.

 
Here's some Bills fun facts to end your Bills-free Sunday:

  • 538 currently has the Bills at 96% chance to make the playoffs.
  • NY Times is very slightly more pessimistic and has the Bills at 95% to make the playoffs
  • If the Bills lose out and finish 9-7, NY Times projects that they still have approx 58% chance to make the playoffs
  • A win in any individual game down the stretch increases those odds to 97% or better.
  • A win over the Steelers puts them at 99+% chance to make it.
  • 538's QB analytics rank Allen as the 4th best QB in the AFC, behind only Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson.
Just gotta get one.

 
It breaks my heart to see Jacksonville blown out by 5-7 Tampa Bay.  I have it on good authority that Doug Marrone is a top-shelf HC in this league, and I hope Jacksonville doesn't do anything rash here like kicking this fraud to the curb.
I don't really want to rehash the Marrone thing, but can we all agree that regardless of how this season finishes, it really looks like the Bills have FINALLY hit a ####### home run with McDermott and Beane?

As much as we ##### about McDermott's conservative style at times, this is the first time in forever that it feels like the Bills really have a steady hand guiding the ship.  What they managed with bit parts in 2017, with a rebuild in 2018, and so far this season is simply astounding.  No BS, no flashy stuff, just two no-nonsense off-the-radar guys (plus the rest of the front office/coaching staff) who seem to have a ton of trust in each other and may have actually started to put together the foundations of a "winning culture".

You never had that with Marrone, who quit on the Bills just as we were quitting on him.  Rex, Gailey, Jauron - all well-liked, but never even sniffed the cohesive structure the Bills seem to have right now.  There's still a giant question mark at QB, but I don't think I've ever been more confident, in general, of the "direction" that the franchise is heading with these two running the show.  If they fail, it's because Allen fails, not because they're incapable of putting the pieces around him and putting the team in a position to succeed, or because they can't form a team that's worth more than the sum of its parts.  With those past coaches, you sometimes felt that the Bills were winning in spite of the coaching, not because of it.  I don't feel that way with this group.

 
I don't really want to rehash the Marrone thing, but can we all agree that regardless of how this season finishes, it really looks like the Bills have FINALLY hit a ####### home run with McDermott and Beane?

As much as we ##### about McDermott's conservative style at times, this is the first time in forever that it feels like the Bills really have a steady hand guiding the ship.  What they managed with bit parts in 2017, with a rebuild in 2018, and so far this season is simply astounding.  No BS, no flashy stuff, just two no-nonsense off-the-radar guys (plus the rest of the front office/coaching staff) who seem to have a ton of trust in each other and may have actually started to put together the foundations of a "winning culture".

You never had that with Marrone, who quit on the Bills just as we were quitting on him.  Rex, Gailey, Jauron - all well-liked, but never even sniffed the cohesive structure the Bills seem to have right now.  There's still a giant question mark at QB, but I don't think I've ever been more confident, in general, of the "direction" that the franchise is heading with these two running the show.  If they fail, it's because Allen fails, not because they're incapable of putting the pieces around him and putting the team in a position to succeed, or because they can't form a team that's worth more than the sum of its parts.  With those past coaches, you sometimes felt that the Bills were winning in spite of the coaching, not because of it.  I don't feel that way with this group.
I agree 100%.  McDermott has been here for three years.  I feel like we've won at least two more games than our roster would indicate in each of those seasons.  This one is weird because our schedule has been so soft, but we've beaten literally every team that we were favored over and a few that we weren't, which is way better than any other coach since Wade Phillips.

Like everyone else, I have quibbles with McDermott's game day management decisions.  But he's clearly a keeper as a HC IMO.

Edit: Also, Beane knocked it out of the park in free agency this year.  I'm extremely happy with him running our front office.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
Houston - New England: If I thought we were likely to win out, I would obviously pull for Houston.  But I still think the division is out of reach, and I would prefer that Houston not win their division. 
I totally understand your perspective there, but boy... I'd really like to be able to take a shot at knocking the Pats off the AFC East throne this year.

 
I totally understand your perspective there, but boy... I'd really like to be able to take a shot at knocking the Pats off the AFC East throne this year.
I mean, if the Texans win tonight and Buffalo somehow wins out, the Bills, I believe, would not only win the AFC East, they would be the #1 seed in the AFC...

I don’t think the Bills are beating both the Ravens and Patriots, but a man can dream...

And, I know dirt has been prematurely throw on his grave for the last decade, but Brady may legitimately be hitting a downward arc. :oldunsure:

 
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I totally understand your perspective there, but boy... I'd really like to be able to take a shot at knocking the Pats off the AFC East throne this year.
Anyone know how the tiebreakers would pan out if:

The Bills lose to Balt, win the other three, finish 12-4.

The Patriots lose tonight, lose vs KC, and lose to the Bills, and finish 12-4?

(I believe they'd both have 5 division wins. Bills with 9 conference wins, and Pats with 8. Is that the next tie-breaker?)

 
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Anyone know how the tiebreakers would pan out if:

The Bills lose to Balt, win the other three, finish 12-4.

The Patriots lose tonight, lose vs KC, and lose to the Bills, and finish 12-4?

(I believe they'd both have 5 division wins. Bills with 9 conference wins, and Pats with 8. Is that the next tie-breaker?)
Patriots would win the division.

Just looked it up and division tiebreakers go:

-H2H

-Division record

-Record against common opponents

-Conference record

Bills would have lost to both Browns, Eagle, and Ravens and Patriots would have won against the Browns and Eagles.

Bills need to beat the Ravens to keep it even on common opponent wins. That would put it to conference record which the Bills would be a game up on as one of their 3 losses would be to an NFC team while all 3 of NE’s would be against AFC teams.

I think.

 
On the one hand, I love the Bills getting flexed into Sunday night against the Steelers. On the other hand, I feel like an important game in Pittsburgh in a prime time game may not exactly end up kind to Buffalo from a yellow flag standpoint...

 
Patriots would win the division.

Just looked it up and division tiebreakers go:

-H2H

-Division record

-Record against common opponents

-Conference record

Bills would have lost to both Browns, Eagle, and Ravens and Patriots would have won against the Browns and Eagles.

Bills need to beat the Ravens to keep it even on common opponent wins. That would put it to conference record which the Bills would be a game up on as one of their 3 losses would be to an NFC team while all 3 of NE’s would be against AFC teams.

I think.
I’m not sure what I was thinking here. Bills have lost to both the Browns and Eagles. If Bills win out, they would only have the Ravens as a common opponent win still. So the Bills still need help. Their best hope would obviously be for the Chiefs to beat the Patriots this coming week.

 
On the one hand, I love the Bills getting flexed into Sunday night against the Steelers. On the other hand, I feel like an important game in Pittsburgh in a prime time game may not exactly end up kind to Buffalo from a yellow flag standpoint...
It's funny, but I can see the NFL probably favoring an ascendant Buffalo team over a middling Pittsburgh team this season the way things stand now. I've never seen so much national good will visited upon the Bills before as I have since they beat Dallas last week. I've had friends text me saying how much they liked how Josh Allen played. I think the more the average national football fan gets to know him, the more they will like him. He's a gamer, and such a down to earth kid with a natural fun-loving exuberance in playing football that people can't help but pull for him. That 4th down conversion where he snagged the botched snap and just willed himself to get those yards, followed up with that fist pump won him a ton of fans on Thanksgiving. If the NFL sometimes (ahem) suggests to the refs who they should favor in a game I can see them going Buffalo's way, which I haven't felt in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhIywwKFqWQ

 
It's funny, but I can see the NFL probably favoring an ascendant Buffalo team over a middling Pittsburgh team this season the way things stand now. I've never seen so much national good will visited upon the Bills before as I have since they beat Dallas last week. I've had friends text me saying how much they liked how Josh Allen played. I think the more the average national football fan gets to know him, the more they will like him. He's a gamer, and such a down to earth kid with a natural fun-loving exuberance in playing football that people can't help but pull for him. That 4th down conversion where he snagged the botched snap and just willed himself to get those yards, followed up with that fist pump won him a ton of fans on Thanksgiving. If the NFL sometimes (ahem) suggests to the refs who they should favor in a game I can see them going Buffalo's way, which I haven't felt in a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhIywwKFqWQ
The officials did everything in their power to hand the Cleveland-Pittsburgh game to Cleveland, so you may be onto something here.

 
I don't really want to rehash the Marrone thing, but can we all agree that regardless of how this season finishes, it really looks like the Bills have FINALLY hit a ####### home run with McDermott and Beane?

As much as we ##### about McDermott's conservative style at times, this is the first time in forever that it feels like the Bills really have a steady hand guiding the ship.  What they managed with bit parts in 2017, with a rebuild in 2018, and so far this season is simply astounding.  No BS, no flashy stuff, just two no-nonsense off-the-radar guys (plus the rest of the front office/coaching staff) who seem to have a ton of trust in each other and may have actually started to put together the foundations of a "winning culture".

You never had that with Marrone, who quit on the Bills just as we were quitting on him.  Rex, Gailey, Jauron - all well-liked, but never even sniffed the cohesive structure the Bills seem to have right now.  There's still a giant question mark at QB, but I don't think I've ever been more confident, in general, of the "direction" that the franchise is heading with these two running the show.  If they fail, it's because Allen fails, not because they're incapable of putting the pieces around him and putting the team in a position to succeed, or because they can't form a team that's worth more than the sum of its parts.  With those past coaches, you sometimes felt that the Bills were winning in spite of the coaching, not because of it.  I don't feel that way with this group.
Can we call them up from the farm team next spring?  Asking for a friend.

 
Bills fans, what's a wind of SSW 18 mph do in that stadium?
The wind in the stadium tends to swirl.  Sustained 15-20 mph winds will definitely have an effect on the passing game for both teams.  Then again, both of these teams have been built to play effectively in conditions like this.

 
Never want to see them lose but I'm not too discouraged.  Offense struggled, but the Ravens are pretty ####### good and the Bills had the ball inside the 20 with a chance to tie or win inside the last 2 minutes.  As bad as the offense was at times, they were in it until the end against a very good team.

If Tennessee beats Oakland today, I believe the Bills are officially in "win-and-you're-in" territory for the last 3 games.  

Plenty to work on during the week.

 
Never want to see them lose but I'm not too discouraged.  Offense struggled, but the Ravens are pretty ####### good and the Bills had the ball inside the 20 with a chance to tie or win inside the last 2 minutes.  As bad as the offense was at times, they were in it until the end against a very good team.

If Tennessee beats Oakland today, I believe the Bills are officially in "win-and-you're-in" territory for the last 3 games.  

Plenty to work on during the week.
Yeah, it really sucks to lose, especially with New England losing since a Bills win today would have given them the ability to win out and win the division. But to hang in there and make it that close, and limit the Ravens offense like that, tells me that they have the ability to beat any team in the NFL.

Josh simply needs to learn how to make teams pay for all out blitzing. New England did it over and over again to the Bills and so did Baltimore and Allen was never able to make them pay for it. The better teams are going to keep doing it until he proves that he can make them pay. But so far he is wilting and killing the Bills when blitzed hard. Dabol needs to find easy reads and easy quick passes to help him out. And for the love, Josh HAS to start hitting those open deep balls on all out blitzes. He had 2 that could have, and should have, gone for TDs early on that would have changed the game.

 
If Tennessee beats Oakland today, I believe the Bills are officially in "win-and-you're-in" territory for the last 3 games.  
This is not technically true.  They are win-and-in this coming weekend.  If they lose to Pittsburgh and win either against the Patriots or Jets, they are effectively 99+%, but not guaranteed.

 
This is not technically true.  They are win-and-in this coming weekend.  If they lose to Pittsburgh and win either against the Patriots or Jets, they are effectively 99+%, but not guaranteed.
What’s crazy is the Bills can LOSE to the Steelers and still win the division if they win out and the Patriots also lose to Miami. Not likely, but still.

 
What’s crazy is the Bills can LOSE to the Steelers and still win the division if they win out and the Patriots also lose to Miami. Not likely, but still.
Joe Buscaglia says I'm wrong.....he says win and they're in, no matter what.  Not sure who is correct, but he's the pro beat writer, not me.

Would love to win in Pittsburgh next week and just get it over with.  Bills open as 1 point road favorites, but haven't won in Pittsburgh in like 25 years.  Steelers have a 2nd/3rd stringer at QB.  The Bills lost at home to Steelers third stringers in 2004 to miss the playoffs.  I was at that game....let's exorcise those demons.

 
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Joe Buscaglia says I'm wrong.....he says win and they're in, no matter what.  Not sure who is correct, but he's the pro beat writer, not me.

Would love to win in Pittsburgh next week and just get it over with.  Bills open as 1 point road favorites, but haven't won in Pittsburgh in like 25 years.  Steelers have a 2nd/3rd stringer.  The Bills lost at home to Steelers third stringers in 2004 to miss the playoffs.  I was at that game....let's exorcise those demons.
The Bills aren't going to lose to the Steelers... No chance.

 
Here is the deal with the Steelers.  Their offense is extremely vanilla (mostly because they have a 3rd string QB back there).   The coaches are doing everything in their power to limit mistakes on offense and this 3rd string QB is doing a good job of that.  The defense is ferocious.  They're going to get a LOT of pressure on Allen so it will just come down to how he handles that.  They cause a lot of turnovers and get a lot of sacks.  But they are pretty inept on offense.  I'm hoping Juju and Conner are back this week but honestly I'm not sure they really move the needle much anyways.  It's going to be a very close game because both defenses are very good.  

 
Joe Buscaglia says I'm wrong.....he says win and they're in, no matter what.  Not sure who is correct, but he's the pro beat writer, not me.
He's right -- 538 and NYT have it this way too.  What makes it complicated is that Houston and Tennessee play each other twice during the last three weeks of the season.  One of them will win the division and therefore won't be in the WC picture.  The "loser" of the division will be in the WC picture, but by virtue of having lost the division, that team is also guaranteed to have absorbed another loss or two (otherwise they would win the division).  

That dynamic is also the reason why we're currently a coin flip to make it in even if we lose all of our remaining games.  If Tennessee splits with Houston and loses to New Orleans, for example, our chances of making the playoffs at 9-7 go way up.  But that's strictly academic because we're going to win out and finish 12-4.    

 
I am going to the game and taking my wife's best friend's fiance who is a huge Bills fan.  He is bringing an entourage of friends and family from Buffalo so we have a big tailgate planned.   Should be a lot of fun!  

 

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