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North Korea thread (6 Viewers)

TLAMs within 300 miles of NK nuke test facility. That's easily within range. NBC quotes IC source claiming we will strike pre-emptively if it looks like NK is going to conduct a test. Madness afaict.

Pence planning a trip to Seoul tomorrow with a backup plan for Japan, ya know, just in case.

 
Trump has no ambassadors in place for SK, Japan or China and also no Asst. SOS for East Asia. - I guess we have other people in place or at least I hope so.

 
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My news feed

Troops mass in Pyongyang show of strength The Straits Times-42 minutes ago

Air China cancels some Pyongyang flights Yahoo7 News-15 minutes ago

North Korea warns 'thermo-nuclear war may break out at any moment' Yahoo7 News-15 minutes ago

North Korea says it's ready for war -42 minutes ago

China warns of N Korea conflict at any moment' Gulf Times-55 minutes ago

N. Korean official: US more vicious, aggressive under Trump In-Depth-Asahi Shimbun-29 minutes ago

 
The Trump administration has settled on its North Korea strategy after a two-month review: "Maximum pressure and engagement."

U.S. officials said Friday the president's advisers weighed a range of ideas for how to get North Korea to abandon its nuclear program, including military options and trying to overthrow the isolated communist dictatorship's leadership. At the other end of the spectrum, they looked at the notion of accepting North Korea as a nuclear state.

In the end, however, they settled on a policy that appears to represent continuity.

The administration's emphasis, the officials said, will be on increasing pressure on Pyongyang with the help of China, North Korea's dominant trade partner. The officials weren't authorized to speak publicly on the results of the policy review and requested anonymity.

...

Pyongyang has undertaken five nuclear tests since 2006.

An influential Washington think tank estimated Friday that North Korea could already have up to 30 bombs.

The Institute for Science and International Security cited a worrying increase in North Korea's nuclear program, but said the arsenal may only have been as large as 13 atomic weapons at the end of 2016. Its research suggested a range between 10 and 16 such weapons two years earlier. The institute's estimates are based on what it believes the North has produced in plutonium and weapons-grade uranium. The margins represent uncertainty as to whether North Korea has one or two uranium enrichment facilities.

The North has owned up to one such facility, at its Nyongbyon nuclear complex, but the U.S. government assumes it has more.

"The bottom line is that North Korea has an improving nuclear weapons arsenal," said David Albright, the institute's president.

He said the North may have a handful of plutonium-based warheads it can mount on medium-range ballistic missiles capable of reaching South Korea and Japan. But it's doubtful the North is currently able to build reliable, survivable warheads for an intercontinental ballistic missile that can strike the U.S. mainland, he said.

As for the Trump administration's policy, the U.S. officials emphasized that no engagement of North Korea is currently taking place. Although China advocates for diplomatic outreach, the focus for now is on pressure.

The officials said the goal of engagement would have to be North Korea's denuclearization. It cannot lead to an arms control agreement or reduction of the North's atomic arsenal that would imply American acceptance of North Korea as a nuclear power. ...

But a U.S. military official, who requested anonymity to discuss planning, said the U.S. doesn't intend to use military force against North Korea in response to either a nuclear test or a missile launch. The official said plans could change in the unlikely event a North Korean missile targets South Korea, Japan or U.S. territory.
https://www.apnews.com/86626d21ea2b45c79457a873a747c452

- I think right now we just have to hope or expect that NK will not do anything abundantly stupid.

 
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What is Russia's attitude toward North Korea? I don't know the answer to this.
Well it's their ******* baby that has grown up to be a civic menace.

They're also on their border so they don't want them going belly up any more than China does, probably less so given how close Vladivostok is.

 
My news feed

Troops mass in Pyongyang show of strength The Straits Times-42 minutes ago

Air China cancels some Pyongyang flights Yahoo7 News-15 minutes ago

North Korea warns 'thermo-nuclear war may break out at any moment' Yahoo7 News-15 minutes ago

North Korea says it's ready for war -42 minutes ago

China warns of N Korea conflict at any moment' Gulf Times-55 minutes ago

N. Korean official: US more vicious, aggressive under Trump In-Depth-Asahi Shimbun-29 minutes ago




 
meanwhile on the 15th, Trump nudges the ball a little closer when no one is looking

 
I was just looking up what countries have the best relations with North Korea, just in case we need to find other intermediaries. These are the folks that actually say they like the North Koreans:

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Cuba, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Iran, Laos, Libya, Madagascar, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Seychelles, Serbia, Slovenia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe.

Hmm. Not sure there are a lot of good candidates here...

 
I was just looking up what countries have the best relations with North Korea, just in case we need to find other intermediaries. These are the folks that actually say they like the North Koreans:

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Cuba, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Iran, Laos, Libya, Madagascar, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Seychelles, Serbia, Slovenia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe.

Hmm. Not sure there are a lot of good candidates here...
Seychelles for the win?

 
I was just looking up what countries have the best relations with North Korea, just in case we need to find other intermediaries. These are the folks that actually say they like the North Koreans:

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Cuba, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Iran, Laos, Libya, Madagascar, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Seychelles, Serbia, Slovenia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe.

Hmm. Not sure there are a lot of good candidates here...
Roll out Melania, heeelllooo, Slovenia.

 
I think I have a solution that is crazy enough, it might just work - given the high levels of crazy already involved.

The US, maybe in partnership with its Russian hackers and social media bots, should leak a story that they have sent in Seal Team 11 (if you thought Team 6 was elite - these guys go to eleven, for when you need a bit more eliteness).  The US can claim the Seal Team 11 has infiltrated North Korea, and the sole purpose is to assassinate Kim Jong-Un, and they are closing in on their target, with the help of senior NK officials. 

Now, Jong-un will go mad wondering who has betrayed him, and be paranoid about his own shadow. This gives the senior leaders, who all very much want to live, the opportunity to have a conflict-free coup, ending the reign of crazy.

Then the adults, no not you Donnie, can sit down and figure out how best to integrate North Korea into the 21st century. This is always going to be the painful part, but we can avoid the unnecessary bloodshed, if we can figure out how to create a takeover from within.

 
I think I have a solution that is crazy enough, it might just work - given the high levels of crazy already involved.

The US, maybe in partnership with its Russian hackers and social media bots, should leak a story that they have sent in Seal Team 11 (if you thought Team 6 was elite - these guys go to eleven, for when you need a bit more eliteness).  The US can claim the Seal Team 11 has infiltrated North Korea, and the sole purpose is to assassinate Kim Jong-Un, and they are closing in on their target, with the help of senior NK officials. 

Now, Jong-un will go mad wondering who has betrayed him, and be paranoid about his own shadow. This gives the senior leaders, who all very much want to live, the opportunity to have a conflict-free coup, ending the reign of crazy.

Then the adults, no not you Donnie, can sit down and figure out how best to integrate North Korea into the 21st century. This is always going to be the painful part, but we can avoid the unnecessary bloodshed, if we can figure out how to create a takeover from within.
But.... do we get to use the MOAB again? /Trump

 
North Korea is rolling their tanks down the road.  These tanks are Type 59s, which are older than most of us. :lol:   I guess that's charming in a sense.

 
I was just looking up what countries have the best relations with North Korea, just in case we need to find other intermediaries. These are the folks that actually say they like the North Koreans:

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Cuba, Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Iran, Laos, Libya, Madagascar, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Seychelles, Serbia, Slovenia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zimbabwe.

Hmm. Not sure there are a lot of good candidates here...
Not sure what they could really do to help, but Madagascar and Tanzania are at least not completely insane, right?  I don't really know.

 
North Korea's 2017 Military Parade Was a Big Deal. Here Are the Major Takeaways


North Korea showed the world that it’s doing what it needs to to deter its enemies.
On Saturday, North Korea staged a massive military parade to commemorate the 105th birth anniversary of Kim Il-sung, the country’s founder and grandfather of current leader, Kim Jong-un. The day, also known in the country as the ‘Day of the Sun,’ is the most important public holiday in North Korea. It commemorates not only the driving force behind the country’s founding, but also the patriarch of the Kim dynasty, whose personality cult rules supreme over North Korea to this day. The parade took place amid hot speculation in the United States, Japan, and South Korea that Pyongyang would look to also potentially test a sixth nuclear device, which it did not do.

Though it did not ultimately test a nuclear device on Saturday morning, what North Korea showed off at the parade should be equally concerning, even though it likely won’t be treated as such in the broader news cycle in the West. Below, I run through some of what was shown off with brief comment. In the coming days and weeks, we should see analytical deep dives into the parade footage from the community of dedicated North Korea watchers.

Keep in mind first that we’ve observed a pretty clear trend in North Korean ballistic missile testing over the past couple years. In addition to drastically increasing the frequency of its testing — North Korea has carried out 37 missile tests since the start of 2016 — Pyongyang has spent a great deal of effort toward developing survivable platforms and worked to operationalize a second-strike capability. It has additionally worked to decrease the time required for a missile launch and the satellite signature of its platforms. On top of this, North Korea has been steadily working to operationalize an intercontinental-range ballistic missile capable of striking most of the U.S. homeland.

To the end of a survivable second-strike capability, we’ve seen the development and testing of the KN-11 submarine-launched ballistic missile, which has transitioned to using solid fuel propulsion and has been tested successfully in that configuration. The KN-11, intended for use aboard North Korea’s lone Gorae-class submarine, would presumably also give Pyongyang the ability to initiate a strike South Korea outside of the field of vision of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile defense system. At Saturday’s parade, Pyongyang demonstrated that it had at least six of these missiles in its inventory. It rolled them out on trucks for display. Saturday marked the first display of the KN-11 at a parade.

Beyond the SLBM, we saw North Korea make important advances with its test of the Pukkuksong-2 (or KN-15) solid fuel ballistic missile in February this year (when Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was visiting the United States). The missile, which is a land-launched variant of the KN-11, was notable for using a tracked transporter erector launcher (TEL) and for being fully canisterized (i.e., enclosed and ready for launch). As I discussed in February, the tracked TEL is particularly a good investment for North Korea, which has a high ratio of unpaved to paved roads. North Korea has just 724 km of paved roads compared to 24,830 km of unpaved roads and regular TEL trucks cannot realistically go off-road without applying dangerous physical stress to the chassis of the missile they’d carry.

Second, the canisterization of the solid fuel missile means that North Korea would be able to store the system remotely and launch it with little warning, eliminating the sort of support vehicles that would generate a large satellite signature for the United States and South Korea to observe in a potential preemption scenario. In sum, both the KN-11 and the KN-15 are about increasing survivability and obtaining a second strike capability. North Korea showed off six KN-15 TELs at Saturday’s parade. Together, these platforms make the prospect of a preemptive strike by the United States or South Korea less palatable, leaving open the prospect of nuclear retaliation.

...

Going back to my original point — that Saturday’s display should merit attention similar to a nuclear test — the KN-11, KN-15, and possible Kh-35 variant TEL’s appearance were really the amuse bouche for North Korea watchers at the parade. North Korea saved its biggest and baddest missiles for last, as is custom at these parades. This is where things got particularly interesting, catching off-guard many North Korea experts who were watching the parade live.

First, Pyongyang showed off a Scud/Nodong-variant — again on a tracked TEL — with fins on the nose cone. I’ve gone into why the tracked TEL is significant above; similar reasoning applies with this launcher, especially as Pyongyang has shown an interest in salvo-launching Scuds and Nodongs in a possible first strike scenario. The fins on the nose cone may have been mocked up for the parade, but are suggestive of North Korea possibly looking into maneuverable reentry vehicle technology, which could presumably make these missiles more difficult to intercept. From the parade footage alone, it may be unfeasible to glean more about just how significant these changes may be. North Korea also showed off its intermediate-range Hwasong-10 (Musudan) missile, the much-ballyhooed ‘Guam-killer’; that missile saw frenzied testing last year, with at least six confirmed tests (five failed, one succeeded in June 2016).

Second, we saw a larger missile, possibly a variant of the long-discussed KN-08 or KN-14 intercontinental ballistic missile (both theoretically capable of reaching most of the U.S. homeland with a reasonable payload). This missile, which remains untested to this day, was shown off with a new color scheme like the Musudan and, oddly enough, on board a TEL truck that appeared almost identical to the Musudan’s. It’s unclear if North Korea may have attempted to test this KN-08/KN-14 variant at some point — possibly late last year at Kusong, when U.S. and South Korean monitoring picked up two failed tests that exploded shortly after launch.

After the new KN-08/KN-14 had strolled out of the limelight in Pyongyang’s Kim Il-sung square, North Korea introduced the crescendo of the whole affair: it rolled out two previously unseen ICBM-sized canisters on board massive TELs. One TEL appeared to be similar to an older KN-08 TEL and the other appeared to be new (though similar in appearance to a Chinese DF-41 or Russian Topol-M). We don’t know what — if anything — was inside the canisters since North Korea hasn’t publicly shown off or tested any missile of that size before. However, we can infer given the size of the canister and the fact that it was paraded on Saturday that Pyongyang wants the world to know that it is actively working toward at least two types of solid-fuel, canisterized ICBMs (possibly with three stages).

That’s a development that should merit quite a bit of attention. Even if it’s unlikely that North Korea is close to that capability today, they’ve already shown their work toward various components of making such as a system work. For instance, we see in video footage released by North Korea after the February 2017 KN-15 launch that the hydraulics involved in the canister’s cold launch system ejected the missile — which is relatively short compared to the canisters seen on the new TELs — over twice its length, suggesting that Pyongyang may already be capable of ejecting heavier ICBMs. Second, as I’ve discussed before, North Korea is very serious about its work on high-thrust engines for use on an ICBM. It may choose to carry out an initial test using a non-canisterized KN-08 or KN-14, but these new TELs are still cause for concern.

In summation, as I noted on Twitter during the parade, the two big technical trends this year for North Korea may be tracked TELs and canisterized systems. More broadly, observing the parade took left me reflecting on the somewhat grim prediction I’d made in January that 2017 would turn out to be the year of the North Korean ICBM. Given both what North Korea has said and now what it has shown, this certainly seems to be the case. And more so than ever, North Korea seems to be highlighting the perils of a preemptive first strike to the United States and South Korea. With every nuclear and ballistic missile test, its threat of inflicting unacceptable retaliatory damage against Seoul and, eventually, Washington becomes more credible.

...
http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/north-koreas-2017-military-parade-was-a-big-deal-here-are-the-major-takeaways/?utm_content=buffer7a3f9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 
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I was thinking that myself, though I wasn't sure of the type I thought they looked really old.

Hmmmm....
:lol:  I shouldn't laugh.  I bet the commander of that tank is in a prison cell now and probably won't see sunlight again.  Yeah, I think those are old Chinese Type 59s, which are (I think) an original Soviet post WWII design.  About 45-50 years old.

 
Possible we interfered with the launch? I hear it was aimed at the carrier group. And if we did and it dawns on the Little **** Tater...  crazy squared. Or if they merely failed that badly... do they still do something stupid?

Best case scenario is that they failed on purpose to make a statement without the immediate fear of reprisal.

All told, don't like a stupid little match flirting with a dumb orange fuse.
It occurred to me one of the options must be some sort of Stuxnet or other sabotage operation, but I'm sure if we had knocked it out by military we'd know that. 

I'd like to think the weakness of the test gives everyone an out to take some time to figure out an approach to settlement or some non-military option.

 

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