Sabertooth
Footballguy
Wooohoooo....back on the train!
Just sent:
Eddie Lacy
Jonathan Frankline
and got back
Keenan Allen
Alfred Morris
Just sent:
Eddie Lacy
Jonathan Frankline
and got back
Keenan Allen
Alfred Morris
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WR Keenan Allen, CHI (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I am not sure why anyone outside of Eddie Lacy himself would make such a trade. But congrats! I got lucky and was able to pick him up again before the spotlight was shined on him.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Resident A
Footballguy
I picked up Allen in all my leagues as a replacement for Julio.Luckily I don't have to start KA right away, but I'm thinking he gives me the ability to trade away 1 of my better "name" WRs and bump him into my WR3 spot.
If this turns into a Danario 2012 scenario, we've found this year's WW gold.
If this turns into a Danario 2012 scenario, we've found this year's WW gold.
johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
Black
Footballguy
I just rewatched the game last night, and noticed that same thing. Two long passes to Keenan were in prevent mode on the last drive of the game. I like him and own him in Dynasty and a Keeper league, and think he is a future WR1, but for now, I think Rivers looks to Gates 1st, then Woodhead, then V.Brown.
V.Brown was used regularly/more consistently throughout the game.
This year, in PPR, I think V.Brown will be the more steady week-in, week-out 6 for 60 guy this year. Keenan is the big play guy. He looks good, but it is hard to tell from broadcast TV how good his routes are. It's hard to guess if SD will keep throwing big play shots to him unless they are way down like they were to OAK. He should continue to earn the trust of Rivers, and could become a WR1.
V.Brown's superpower is his route running (and hands). He is not a burner, but is always where he should be, squats in coverage, makes the catch. He has really good ball tracking, catching an over the shoulder ball (late 2nd quarter?) where he had to adjust from one side to the other, so he's not one-dimensional at all.
I am actually pretty excited (as a Chargers fan) with the young WR corps: Woodhead, Royal, VBrown, K.Allen, and hope Rivers keeps playing at a high level.
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Black
Footballguy
In Dynasty, I think it is becoming obvious that he's in the class of DeAndre Hopkins. He's not AJ Green/Julio, but you probably have to pay top 20 WR prices in Dynasty.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I've got visions of a WR1 here, as soon as this season. He's getting all of Malcom Floyd's snaps and looks. Think about that for a second. There will be some down days, but thinking a lot of up ones as well, assuming Allen and Rivers stay healthy. Year end schedule is NYG, @Den, Oak. He could win fantasy championships as a WR3 on already strong squads.
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Add me to the list of skeptics for value this season. Halfway through the 3Q vs OAK, he had 1 target and zero catches. He looked great, after that, but I don't want to put a WR2 or WR3 in my lineup and have to hope for comeback-mode or garbage-time to avoid regretting my play.
The talent is definitely there, but as others have said, until he ceases to be 4th-option for Rivers, I'm not putting him in my lineup unless they're playing Denver.
The talent is definitely there, but as others have said, until he ceases to be 4th-option for Rivers, I'm not putting him in my lineup unless they're playing Denver.
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The upside hope is that he's earned more trust from Rivers. When the game was on the line, he still looked at Allen even though it ended up in an INT. Plus I don't think this will be the last garbage time/comeback scenario the Chargers will be in. They look prime for shoot outs most weeks. This was the Raiders that had them that way.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
There is another way to look at this. He's a rookie who hasn't gotten a lot of looks. When Rivers finally started going his way, he took off.
Perhaps this builds something for the future.
Vincent Brown is not nearly as talented as Keenan Allen. But Allen is a rookie, and can be expected to struggle at times.
In re-draft, I probably would be mildly interested. In dynasty, I'd be doing whatever it takes to get this guy.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
He played 100% of the snaps and when he started getting looks, he looked like the best WR out there. It's not when players get their opportunities, it's what they do with them when they get them.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Yeah this whole garbage time only point just never makes sense. Who cares when the players get their points as long as they get em
Dizzy
Footballguy
Agreed. Most of Barry Sanders' career was played in garbage time... and he did OK for his Owners.
Allen's star is on the rise.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Bottom line is he got 15 targets in 2 games and 11/195/1 in those games. And an established red zone target. Who cares when the targets started to happen? The point is they happened. The argument about targets coming late is as silly as the guys who say, "well if you take away Adrian Peterson's 88 yard TD run, he averaged 1.5 ypc on 11 carries...he sucks". Ridiculous line of thinking.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
All you need to know is that Allen is by and far the most talented receiving option on a team projected to throw a very healthy amount this year.
A dude with Allen's talent seeing the field 100% of the time and with a floor of 5-6ish targets a game has real value no matter which way you look at it.
A dude with Allen's talent seeing the field 100% of the time and with a floor of 5-6ish targets a game has real value no matter which way you look at it.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Agree that Allen is the most talented receiving option. V Brown is a good route runner, but he projects as a move the chains guy. Royal is a nifty slot guy. Woodhead causes matchup nightmares whereever he lines up. And P Rivers is undergoing a renaissance throwing quick darts all around the field. The combination of talent across the field is a very good thing for owners of any of these guys. All of this is a good thing. But Allen is the guy who is emerging as the #1 wideout. It's not showing on the statline yet, but he will blow away that 5-6 ish floor on targets soon. He's just getting started. Bigger, stronger, soft hands, good instincts. The others are playing a role. Allen has the talent to be Rivers primary target. For fantasy purposes, I think his ceiling is head and shoulders over the other SD wideouts, not named Gates.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Depends on the stat. The stats I'm looking at (snap % and utilization, particularly in RZ; combined w/Floyd and adjusted for rookie transition) project him as a WR1 ROS, IF the offense (i.e. Rivers) keep it up all season. My eye test corroborates the story. Kid looks extremely polished out there.
RBM
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The floor is a slightly safe estimate, as Floyd saw 5 and 6 targets himself in Weeks 1/2 and for the most part Allen has seen very similar looks (also ratio wise). He's also easily more talented then Floyd and once Rivers realizes that the dude can get open at will in tight spaces with his burst and quick feet (also plays extremely well into the offensive scheme), that floor could indeed rise.
If only this dude wasn't a rookie I'd be ready to label him a solid WR2 with WR1 upside due to the RZ love.
This may be for a new thread entirely, but seeing as how the NFL has evolved into almost a strict passing league, how much does it even matter that he's a rook? Is the learning curve still the same? A lot of rookie WRs have looked "wise beyond their years" to me thus far. Is this, abnormal?
yea Garbage time smarbage time... he is a rookie.. and like others have stated he is clearly the most talented WR on the time, and was a top prospect coming out of the draft... River's is slinging it this year, and as he continues to build more and more rapport with Rivers he will continue to see more and more targets.. and could easily be last year's Danario Alexander
and since a lot of people have been bashing this website and forum lately..
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Shark Pool and Football Guys for the following reasons:
Julius Thomas
Terrelle Pryor
Joique Bell
Kansas City's Defense
Keenan Allen
Phillip Rivers
Josh Gordon
Terrence Williams (Bye Week Filler)
Enough said....Thanks guys!!
and since a lot of people have been bashing this website and forum lately..
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Shark Pool and Football Guys for the following reasons:
Julius Thomas
Terrelle Pryor
Joique Bell
Kansas City's Defense
Keenan Allen
Phillip Rivers
Josh Gordon
Terrence Williams (Bye Week Filler)
Enough said....Thanks guys!!
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Khy
Footballguy
He forgot the part where Peyton Manning threw that TD Ed McCaffery who made an amazing one handed catch in the end zone vs Dallas.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
He was targeted early and often. I was actually quite impressed with his performance to be honest as he was getting separation for the first time all year.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
The fact that Rivers looked his way as much as he did is good enough for me and that's all that matters. The time in which he did means nothing. He'll see more targets Rivers is not stupid.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Brown did look much better and was targetted 3 times in the 1st, then 4 times in the 3rd...
However, actually looking at the game again, I don't think we can really call the 4th quarter garbage time. They were within 7 after the Allen TD with 10 minutes left. Oakland got a FG on the next drive and they were down 10 with 4:24 left. That isn't garbage time... the game is on the line there and they were making a comeback (and almost did FWIW). On the next drive, SD drove down to the Oakland 4 yd line - Allen was targetted 3 times and Brown just once. Then Rivers threw a bad pass to Allen in the endzone for an INT. He was wide open and the pass was late / behind him. Allen had 5 targets in the 4th quarter. Brown had only 1. The game was on the line and he was looking to Allen often including twice in the endzone.
That says a lot about River's confidence in the rookie IMO. Garbage time? I think not.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
You also can't disregard the value of targets. Being "4th" in line here is better than being 2nd in places like OAK, SEA, SF and etc. etc. This isn't a Peyton led offense, but there are very few other passing attacks you'd want to be part of right now.
River's is a top five QB and SD is boasting a top 5 passing attack.
If Allen/this situation really does progress further, watch out. He'll be the WW darling this year.
River's is a top five QB and SD is boasting a top 5 passing attack.
If Allen/this situation really does progress further, watch out. He'll be the WW darling this year.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
One knee definitely equals two feet; that's not really in dispute.
But I thought his knee came down out of bounds. It was in bounds with respect to the back of the end zone, which was the angle they kept showing, but to me it looked out of bounds with respect to the sideline.
In any case, I thought I was kind of high on Allen, but I keep reading comments by others that make me sound pessimistic by comparison. People would consider trading Cecil Shorts for him?
Remember that a lot of people were pretty high on Eddie Royal not too long ago. (Only a week or two ago, I was in a small minority of people who liked Brown and Allen better than Royal.)
The nature of this offense, I think, is that the WRs are going to take turns getting hot. Brown, Allen, and Royal will all have big weeks occasionally. The only consistent producers will be Gates and Woodhead.
It's not that I'm low on Allen. I like him. I think he has good talent and he's in a pretty good situation. But I like him as a flex option. Definitely not as a fantasy WR2. He has that potential, but so do a lot of WRs around the league.
For a discussion about Allen by the FBG staff, see this week's Roundtable. Again, the other staffers surprised me a bit by generally being higher on him than I am.
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Yeah according to fantasypros, Bloom has him ranked 16th this week (highest amongst all experts) you have him ranked 42nd where as Dobbs has him ranked 47th.
Although I think Bloom's ranking is quite generous, are there really 41 WRs you'd rather have this week? You technically do not view him as flex worthy.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I'd definitely call the 40s range "flex".
In the middle of the season the player distribution per owner isn't going to be as clear cut as one player in the 1-12 range, another from the 13-24 range, etc.
And some leagues have two flex spots, or start 3 WR with one flex.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Forgive me, that was stupid. Of course that doesn't take into account RBs and etc.
Still, that does imply that he's not worth starting in leagues which are forced to start three WRs.
socrates
Footballguy
I thought I was pretty high on Allen, until I read all the excitement here. I am quite bullish on Allen long term, but I still think there are likely to be some growing pains, and those who are relying on Allen this season as much more than a flex option or bye week/injury filler might be setting themselves up for disappointment.
I am hopeful that Allen lives up those lofty expectations, but I am not ready to put him there yet. For Dynasty purposes, I am all in, however.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
jojoh07
Footballguy
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
All aboard, Dwayne Bowe is on the Bench and hopefully will not be needed unless Cecil Shorts cant go. Hoping for big things out of Allen.
ryno1980
Footballguy
He's an ideal WR3-4 right now in a great, high volume passing offense for PPR. He's clearly a big-time talent but he's started two games. There's really nothing to debate right now, in other words, he's good and is in a good situation and the Chargers will throw a lot against some bad defenses the rest of the season. But we havne't seen enough to truly trust him as a starter. That said, in those fantasypros rankings, almost 20 guys have him ranked 50th or below. That's just not paying attention. Whoever is turning in those rankings is clearly not a professional.
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Mr. Brownstone
Footballguy
what?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Yeah, its a joke. Last week I decided to roll out Allen and Williams over Stevie and Bowe and 99% of all experts would have told me I was doing it wrong.
Even now 78% say Bowe is the optimal start over Allen and I think that's pretty silly. Could Bowe outscore him this week? Absolutely. Should you be starting Bowe over Allen after what we've seen so far this season? Absolutely not.
ryno1980
Footballguy
I plugged him in last week when I heard Calvin was out instead of Sidney Rice, who most "pros" have ranked in the 30s.
I stopped looking at rankings lists a couple years ago, but I was curious when people mentioned him being in the 40s. The worst is some of the shows on TV with "experts." Caught one on NFL Network the other night, some of those guys are pretty clueless, but some of it is the format. In 3 words, tell me why u like this guy.
I stopped looking at rankings lists a couple years ago, but I was curious when people mentioned him being in the 40s. The worst is some of the shows on TV with "experts." Caught one on NFL Network the other night, some of those guys are pretty clueless, but some of it is the format. In 3 words, tell me why u like this guy.
snitwitch
Footballguy
Do I start this guy over AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, or TY Hilton at this juncture?
