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outdated etiquette? (1 Viewer)

Should name dropping be allowed during drafts for players that aren't drafted

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loose circuits

Footballguy
So a leaguemate and I ended up in argument about whether or not you should mention players names during a draft. This is the transcript, read from bottom. Am I in the wrong? When MFL provides a list of.players does it really matter if a few players are mentioned rounds before the earliest they could go off the board? Start at the bottom


Waiver Wire All-Stars its funny that you are no longer arguing about your original dig, there really was no other way for me to prove my point then bring up specific instances

Waiver Wire All-Stars it became outdated when sites began to default to ADP lists, its not like I mentioned one of the handful of guys that are draftable and not on the ADP list.

cheers for beers The 'unwritten law' is etiquette. And clearly you don't have any.

Waiver Wire All-Stars The site defaults to an ADP list now that only allows a rare few players to slip through the cracks, would be different if it were right after NFL draft and these guys weren't on the Default adp list

Waiver Wire All-Stars The people that did their homework didn't wan their sleepers out in the open, it no longer exists today, so yeah you better draft those guys sometime between the 2nd and 5th round if you got them...

Waiver Wire All-Stars Because that's such a close range? My whole point is that you can't pinpoint them. Where did that unwritten law come from and does it still apply today? I don't think so. Back in the day...

cheers for beers I would say 3.08 in one and late in the fifth in another as pinpointing. cheers for beers Still poor form regardless.

Waiver Wire All-Stars And not like I'm pinpointing there value, I'm just saying they are all over the board

Waiver Wire All-Stars Like it's going to change people's minds, the days if players sneaking through are over with this thing called the internet, the site gives us an ADP list to choose from, these guys are on it...

cheers for beers Drafting 101. Jeez.

cheers for beers Poor form to list players not drafted yet.

Waiver Wire All-Stars worth it for me to get Cunningham since I have Mason at that price, not saying there isn't a difference in value, but there is a huge dropoff mid-late 3rd then a free for all IMO

Waiver Wire All-Stars same thing with the rookie RB from Denver, when it gets to the late 3rd - waiver wire, it's all mixed up to me and basically in one tier, you may have it different and that's fine, but I don't see

Waiver Wire All-Stars just looking at ADP, guys like that TE from Houston went undrafted in both my leagues and have an ADP in the 4th round on this site

Waiver Wire All-Stars Janis is another guy that's all over the board, there are plenty. I have a list of guys l like late, and chances are they will probably be there after the usual suspects are gone

Waiver Wire All-Stars discrepancies in where they have been drafted in my 2 leagues. Josh Huff is example #1, 3.08 in one league, late 5th in the other, Lorenzo Taliaferro is another, drafted in 3rd in one & 5th in another

Waiver Wire All-Stars sure you get your preference, so it works for you. I'm just saying I have a list of 58 guys, the difference between 26 and 46 is not that big. I could list off a handful of guys that have huge...

Use The Force pick is in

cheers for beers I agree. Not sure what drafts you've been in Andrew. But sounds like easy money if that's the case.

Use The Force I dont want to sit here and do it, but I think there are easily 30 players that can be named that never make it to the 5th, maybe a verrrry tiny percent of the time outlier type stuff

Waiver Wire All-Stars I've seen it all mixed together, guys that have gone in mid-3rd last until 5th in others, that's what I mean

Use The Force 4th to 5th maybe a gentler slope, but ton of value in the 3rd that will trail off

Use The Force I do, thats crazy talk cheers for beers 4.02 for 5.10. Nice trade Leo.

Waiver Wire All-Stars yep, I also don't see much difference between mid-3rd to 5th round in this draft

Use The Force I liked Benny (it's also my kids name), but rather the lotto ticket now, makes sense for you with Mason

 
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Your friend is right.

You should not mention any draftable player by name until AFTER they are picked.

 
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Did not need to read that to say, who cares?

In the sense that if you're in an even half decent league, NOONE should be drafting based on a name someone throws out there.

Everyone should be picking based on their own research and board and needs.

Anyone crying about a name being thrown out there, is basically a 10yr old girl at heart

And anyone drafting based on a name being thrown out there, is an idiot and easy money

 
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spider321 said:
Your friend is right.

You should not mention any player by name until AFTER they are picked.
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why? Is it going to change anyone's mind? Back in the day things were much different and to me this is outdated. Why does it still apply? What are the implications?
 
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it's not about changing someone else's mind or not. It's about the off chance that leaguemates may overlook said named player and completely miss them. When the player gets mentioned, they may have a "OH YEA! THAT GUY" moment.

 
xpiredcoupon said:
it's not about changing someone else's mind or not. It's about the off chance that leaguemates may overlook said named player and completely miss them. When the player gets mentioned, they may have a "OH YEA! THAT GUY" moment.
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when the site has the dude's name on a default list? Nobody is getting overlooked unless they don't make the ADP list
 
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One is the list that MFL provides and one is you mentioning the player by name.

If I had my eye on a certain player, you mentioned that player by name, and someone had an "Oh, yeah, that guy!" moment that caused said player to be drafted ahead of my pick, that would be the last moment you and I were in the same league.

 
squistion said:
spider321 said:
loose circuits said:
spider321 said:
Your friend is right.

You should not mention any player by name until AFTER they are picked.
Click to expand...
why? Is it going to change anyone's mind?
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It could.
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It has and it does and I have seen it repeatedly in leagues over the years. Gives the guppies who don't have a clue who to take at the expense of those that have done their homework.
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who does that anymore? Couldn't they just google dynasty ADP or use the default list MFL provides?
 
Soulfly is on your side here, loose circuits.

Let that sink in for a moment, then call your friend, and apologize.

 
spider321 said:
One is the list that MFL provides and one is you mentioning the player by name.

If I had my eye on a certain player, you mentioned that player by name, and someone had an "Oh, yeah, that guy!" moment that caused said player to be drafted ahead of my pick, that would be the last moment you and I were in the same league.
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we are at 2.01; if someone takes Huff, Janis, or Taliaferro in the 2nd oh well...who would do that. If you read the conversation, I'm specifically saying that nobody knows where these guys could go, somewhere between round 3 and the 5th.
 
loose circuits said:
spider321 said:
One is the list that MFL provides and one is you mentioning the player by name.

If I had my eye on a certain player, you mentioned that player by name, and someone had an "Oh, yeah, that guy!" moment that caused said player to be drafted ahead of my pick, that would be the last moment you and I were in the same league.
Click to expand...
we are at 2.01; if someone takes Huff, Janis, or Taliaferro in the 2nd oh well...who would do that. If you read the conversation, I'm specifically saying that nobody knows where these guys could go, somewhere between round 3 and the 5th.
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Did you mention players by name before they were drafted?

If yes, you're wrong and should apologize to your friend.

 
Must be biased because I play in a league w the same 11 other dudes I grew up with for the past 15yrs.

But pulling one over on the other guy, insane smack talk, and screwing someone else over is a MAJOR part of our league.

Fiercest and most exciting league Ive ever been a part of.

 
spider321 said:
loose circuits said:
spider321 said:
One is the list that MFL provides and one is you mentioning the player by name.

If I had my eye on a certain player, you mentioned that player by name, and someone had an "Oh, yeah, that guy!" moment that caused said player to be drafted ahead of my pick, that would be the last moment you and I were in the same league.
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we are at 2.01; if someone takes Huff, Janis, or Taliaferro in the 2nd oh well...who would do that. If you read the conversation, I'm specifically saying that nobody knows where these guys could go, somewhere between round 3 and the 5th.
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Did you mention players by name before they were drafted?

If yes, you're wrong and should apologize to your friend.
Click to expand...
because otherwise someone might have a 'oh that guy' moment, I'm not convinced and the dude isnt really a friend. League was.put together from here. I seriously doubt anyone in it doesn't do their homework and that their mind will be changed based off of what I wroteIf they draft one of them in the 2nd,my league should thank me

 
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Soulfly3 said:
Must be biased because I play in a league w the same 11 other dudes I grew up with for the past 15yrs.

But pulling one over on the other guy, insane smack talk, and screwing someone else over is a MAJOR part of our league.

Fiercest and most exciting league Ive ever been a part of.
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No one who has read your posts doubts that.

 
squistion said:
Soulfly3 said:
Must be biased because I play in a league w the same 11 other dudes I grew up with for the past 15yrs.

But pulling one over on the other guy, insane smack talk, and screwing someone else over is a MAJOR part of our league.

Fiercest and most exciting league Ive ever been a part of.
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No one who has read your posts doubts that.
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"DUDE, why would you remind him Manning had 56 TDs last season!!!???"

man.... you should see the guy drafting at 1.02's face.. PRICELESS!!!

as a serious aside - I have NO issue with doing it to someone, or them doing it to me.

Im confident enough in my research and drafting ability

 
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I would not like it if it was done in any leagues I'm in. But it rarely happens. Most people understand that it is not something you do.

 
I have seen a guy drop a name of a well known but injured player, and then shortly after another owner draft that injured player because they did not know the player was injured.

Name dropping is usually considered bad form and I do not see any advantage to it. For the most part I would expect such a comment to be fishing or meant to be a distraction.

If another owner is that easily influenced by someone dropping a name during the draft?

I am not seeing a restriction on what they can say during the draft being enforced at any other time of the season. So they will just be influenced before and after the draft then. Not sure how or why there should be a rule against it at this time when not at others.

I would say name dropping is similar to talking smack during a draft.

 
Never underestimate the power of suggestion. It's not about playing with bad people, but simply mentioning a player during the draft can change how someone views the board. It's poor form and shouldn't be done.

 
I don't think it's a big deal, but I avoid it anyway to avoid the very appearance of impropriety.

Imagine Team A is on the clock, and Team B is on deck, and Team B desperately wants Virgil Green. One of the random league mates says "oh, hey, guess who cut my lawn the other day. It was Virgil Green, TE, Den! Isn't that weird and random?" Team A winds up drafting Virgil Green. Team B is going to be pissed, and he's going to blame the random league mate, fair or not. I mean, for all we know, Team A has an autographed Virgil Green poster taped to the ceiling above his bed, and every night he makes a wish to it. We don't know. Team A was probably going to take Green there no matter what. But that's irrelevant, because B is upset, and the mere possibility that some other owner is to blame gives him all the outlet he needs for his rage.

In the interest of not giving my league mates an opening to blame me for their own misfortunes, I try to avoid mentioning players by name. But all of my leagues are pretty relaxed and rambunctious, so it's not an ironclad rule, and good comedy will often trump it (e.g. "Hey, remember that time you started Kyle Orton for an entire season? You know he's still available, right?").

 
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loose circuits said:
xpiredcoupon said:
it's not about changing someone else's mind or not. It's about the off chance that leaguemates may overlook said named player and completely miss them. When the player gets mentioned, they may have a "OH YEA! THAT GUY" moment.
Click to expand...
when the site has the dude's name on a default list? Nobody is getting overlooked unless they don't make the ADP list
Click to expand...
Serious leagues should set it so that players are listed alphabetically.

#hardcore

 
PatsWillWin said:
loose circuits said:
xpiredcoupon said:
it's not about changing someone else's mind or not. It's about the off chance that leaguemates may overlook said named player and completely miss them. When the player gets mentioned, they may have a "OH YEA! THAT GUY" moment.
Click to expand...
when the site has the dude's name on a default list? Nobody is getting overlooked unless they don't make the ADP list
Click to expand...
Serious leagues should set it so that players are listed alphabetically.

#hardcore
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Really serious leagues should list players solely by their middle name and date of birth*.Edit: *according to the Coptic calendar.

 
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When you get down in the deeper rounds you'll see that owners are influenced by each other even in highly competitive leagues. If you've ever been in a two player copy league you'll definitely see this tendency. When the first player copy goes off the board in the 4th you can bet that the other copy will come off the board pretty soon as well - even though ADP and rankings say that the player should go a round or two later. It's nothing wrong with it and it doesn't mean that the owners are bad or haven't done their research - it's just human nature. But putting a name out there on the chat and anchoring a draft value by doing so will likely affect the draft in one way or the other. Some people might think that is part of the fun, playing mind games with each other or just being really open about your draft board, but when playing with serious owners for considerable money I prefer to have a more clean environment in the leagues I'm in.

 
i agree it's bad form and it's easier to just avoid doing it. there's plenty of smack talk that can be thrown around without suggesting who people should or could pick.

 
Classic case of just because you can do something and rationalize it, it doesn't mean you should do it. Think of others and not just what feels good to you at that instant. That's etiquette, something sorely lacking in today's society.

No, name dropping shouldn't happen.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Classic case of just because you can do something and rationalize it, it doesn't mean you should do it. Think of others and not just what feels good to you at that instant. That's etiquette, something sorely lacking in today's society.

No, name dropping shouldn't happen.
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I thought about the other guys in my league. they do their homework and I don't believe they are influenced by my words otherwise I'd be able to sell them garbage. This is not a case where I was trying to influence the draft. The guys I mentioned where not anywhere near being picked. It would be like walking into a draft and saying, dang that Seattle defense looked great last night during the 1st round or better grab your kickers and defenses early, etc... This happens all the time. Lorenzo Taliaferro, Michael Huff, and Jeff Janis are not being picked anywhere near the early 2nd round. Are my league mates going to remember them just because I happened to mention there name? I doubt it
 
loose circuits said:
Bronco Billy said:
Classic case of just because you can do something and rationalize it, it doesn't mean you should do it. Think of others and not just what feels good to you at that instant. That's etiquette, something sorely lacking in today's society.

No, name dropping shouldn't happen.
Click to expand...
I thought about the other guys in my league. they do their homework and I don't believe they are influenced by my words otherwise I'd be able to sell them garbage. This is not a case where I was trying to influence the draft. The guys I mentioned where not anywhere near being picked. It would be like walking into a draft and saying, dang that Seattle defense looked great last night during the 1st round or better grab your kickers and defenses early, etc... This happens all the time. Lorenzo Taliaferro, Michael Huff, and Jeff Janis are not being picked anywhere near the early 2nd round. Are my league mates going to remember them just because I happened to mention there name? I doubt it
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Your finding a way to justify bad behavior doesn't make it appropriate, no matter how much you rationalize. But people like you are going to do it anyhow because somehow it gratifies you - otherwise you wouldn't do it, if only because it's poor etiquette.

 
Not for nothing, but the fact that you asked if you were in the wrong and then vehemently argued with anyone who answered anything close to yes should tell you something. If you feel the need to defend your position that strongly, maybe even you don't buy what you're selling.

 
JohnnyU said:
Soulfly3 said:
spider321 said:
Soulfly is on your side here, loose circuits.

Let that sink in for a moment, then call your friend, and apologize.
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Apologize for not being a draft sissy?Ok
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What about devy leagues where college players aren't listed?
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I agree that it would be bad form there as well as players that aren't on the default ADP MFL list, but guys that are already listed by the host site aren't sneaking up on anyone.I guess people still believe in the old school etiquette. I don't typically do it, but in this case I was justifying an argument after someone criticized a deal I made after I provided justification the argument escalated

 
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16 team league, IDP dynasty, 35-man rosters, in existence since 2001, made up of old military buddies, some still in some not...

We draft a week after the NFL draft. Lots of chatter throughout the year as we have lots of offseason activities going on, but suddenly the week we are drafting (online, MFL, takes us about 6 days) it becomes eerily quiet. I'm talking barely an email to a fellow owner. I I imagine everyone is hunkered down in their War Room. The biggest chatter you will see is a comment an owner might make on a pick he just made. After the draft, tons of chatter and comments, but for that week...crickets

I'm glad I don't have to worry about owners spilling the secrets on any potential draft picks. I would say like a lot of folks, try to improve the caliber of owners in the league if it is indeed a serious league.

 
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Adam Harstad said:
In the interest of not giving my league mates an opening to blame me for their own misfortunes, I try to avoid mentioning players by name.
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I'm in the camp of this not being a big deal anymore. It is an outdated concept in any draft where people have internet access. However, if I don't know the folks I am drafting with well, I follow the above.

In my league with close, long-time friends name dropping is borderline encouraged.

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
Adam Harstad said:
In the interest of not giving my league mates an opening to blame me for their own misfortunes, I try to avoid mentioning players by name.
Click to expand...
I'm in the camp of this not being a big deal anymore. It is an outdated concept in any draft where people have internet access. However, if I don't know the folks I am drafting with well, I follow the above.

In my league with close, long-time friends name dropping is borderline encouraged.
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If everyone agrees to it beforehand, then it's not poor form anymore. There's nothing wrong with that.

 
One of my leagues is an "iron man" league where you are not allowed to bring in any draft prep material and are simply handed a list of the current NFL rosters by team and have to draft essentially by gut feel. We have a specific rule that you have 2 minutes to make a selection, but after a minute, other owners are allowed to call out "suggestions" (which are invariably kickers or players no longer in the NFL). But it also incorporates a "Bad QB" position, so we're obviously not a serious league. :)

In the others, however, we frown upon giving suggestions. We draft live, so we're not sitting there with an ADP cheat-sheet, however, so name-dropping might have a bigger effect. Then again, most of us have been friends for 20+ years, so it's not like we're going to kick someone out for poor etiquette.

 
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