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***Official Melvin "Flash" Gordon*** Thread of Love

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4 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

That's a good article. It doesn't address the question of whether a player can miss more than half a season without tolling (an open question that hasn't precisely been litigated, which is perhaps why the article didn't offer an opinion), but I believe it's correct in everything it does address.

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What am I missing here?

Gordon subject to $30K in fines per day of missed camp. Plus a weeks worth of reg season pay for every preseason game missed. Making $5.6M, 1/16th of that is $350K. 

So 4 preseason games at $350K a pop and $30K for 28 days (I don’t actually know how many days camp is so I assumed 28) is $2,240,000. 

He has to play 1/2 the year so I’m assuming he will only make 1/2 his salary? That’s $2,800,000. So the difference is $560,000. 

Seems to me the best case scenario for the Chargers which is also the worst case for Melvin is that he reports 1/2 way through the season and they only have to pay him $560K. 

Is there additional fines for skipping reg season games?

If he doesn’t report at all, he owes them $2,240,000? Then will accumulate additional fines next preseason if he’s not reporting.

Chargers hold all the cards here. I’d be giving a deadline to sign the deal or it’s off the table. Melvin has to realize he can’t win.

 

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1 hour ago, Patrick the Pirate said:

What am I missing here?

Gordon subject to $30K in fines per day of missed camp. Plus a weeks worth of reg season pay for every preseason game missed. Making $5.6M, 1/16th of that is $350K. 

So 4 preseason games at $350K a pop and $30K for 28 days (I don’t actually know how many days camp is so I assumed 28) is $2,240,000. 

He has to play 1/2 the year so I’m assuming he will only make 1/2 his salary? That’s $2,800,000. So the difference is $560,000. 

Seems to me the best case scenario for the Chargers which is also the worst case for Melvin is that he reports 1/2 way through the season and they only have to pay him $560K. 

Is there additional fines for skipping reg season games?

If he doesn’t report at all, he owes them $2,240,000? Then will accumulate additional fines next preseason if he’s not reporting.

Chargers hold all the cards here. I’d be giving a deadline to sign the deal or it’s off the table. Melvin has to realize he can’t win.

 

That's if the Chargers actually enforce the fines.  Not many teams do that.  I'm hoping that Gordon actually signs the deal he was offered (or something close to it) before the regular season.  It would be a smart move, and immediately give him top 5 money at the position I believe. 

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10 minutes ago, matttyl said:

That's if the Chargers actually enforce the fines.  Not many teams do that.  I'm hoping that Gordon actually signs the deal he was offered (or something close to it) before the regular season.  It would be a smart move, and immediately give him top 5 money at the position I believe. 

If he’s not going to sign their deal then why wouldn’t they enforce the fines? Use that as part of their bargaining. If you don’t sign this deal, show up for the last 8 games and we will run you into the ground for basically free. As stated above, this is the best case scenario for the Chargers. Melvin has to give his all those games because he’s auditioning for free agency. 

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1 minute ago, Patrick the Pirate said:

If he’s not going to sign their deal then why wouldn’t they enforce the fines? Use that as part of their bargaining. If you don’t sign this deal, show up for the last 8 games and we will run you into the ground for basically free. As stated above, this is the best case scenario for the Chargers. Melvin has to give his all those games because he’s auditioning for free agency. 

Again, most teams show a sign of good faith and say that they won't enforce at least the training camp fines.  I think they have to, and will, enforce the regular season ones.  Not sure how preseason games work, that could be up to the team as well. 

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4 hours ago, Patrick the Pirate said:

What am I missing here?

Gordon subject to $30K in fines per day of missed camp. Plus a weeks worth of reg season pay for every preseason game missed. Making $5.6M, 1/16th of that is $350K. 

So 4 preseason games at $350K a pop and $30K for 28 days (I don’t actually know how many days camp is so I assumed 28) is $2,240,000. 

He has to play 1/2 the year so I’m assuming he will only make 1/2 his salary? That’s $2,800,000. So the difference is $560,000. 

Seems to me the best case scenario for the Chargers which is also the worst case for Melvin is that he reports 1/2 way through the season and they only have to pay him $560K. 

Is there additional fines for skipping reg season games?

If he doesn’t report at all, he owes them $2,240,000? Then will accumulate additional fines next preseason if he’s not reporting.

Chargers hold all the cards here. I’d be giving a deadline to sign the deal or it’s off the table. Melvin has to realize he can’t win.

 

Agree Patrick.  This is why I am comfortable drafting him.  He has literally zero bargaining power.  Bad career advice from his agent.  The big ? in my mind is if the $10 Million is guaranteed or not.

 

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Chargers have apparently tried to fill the void with incentives.  Might be what's needed here to get him back on the field. 

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So he's going to lose (at least part of) $5.6MM this year by turning down a $10MM a year extension because he wants $13MM a year (a figure he's unlikely to see on the open market)? Seems like a really poor decision.

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59 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

So he's going to lose (at least part of) $5.6MM this year by turning down a $10MM a year extension because he wants $13MM a year (a figure he's unlikely to see on the open market)? Seems like a really poor decision.

All depends on the guarantees of that $10m a year (was it an extension, or was a brand new deal starting now?).  If an extension, I can see his angle here - "you want to start paying me $10m a year next year (no idea on guarantees), or I can miss half this year and make myself worth $12m a year with possible better guarantees."  If the deal he was offered was a brand new starting over deal better than what Freeman got, he should have taken it. 

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Posted (edited)

David Dodds @fbg_dodds

I am expecting Melvin Gordon to show up in week 10 to accrue his fifth-year season only.

Gordon stands to get a lot more money in free agency than he can get by playing significant games with the Chargers. The Chargers are unlikely to franchise him for the $12+M next year if he shows up in week 10.

IMO, the Chargers will ride Ekeler and Jackson similarly to how the Saints used Kamara and Ingram last season. Ekeler will get a lot of touches, but Jackson will also have a decent role.

Because the team will get a very good compensatory pick eventually when they lose Gordon, they are going to be willing to eat the pro-rated $5M contract this season for the number of games Gordon plays.

I put this holdout 90+% on the team as it could have been mitigated with a simple sitdown that would have led to a trade of Gordon.

The Chargers likely should have dealt him before the draft as there was no way they were going to ever offer more than 2 years, $20M and he was never going to take that. They have zero desire to sign him to a longterm deal.

Edited by Penguin

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59 minutes ago, Penguin said:

David Dodds @fbg_dodds

I am expecting Melvin Gordon to show up in week 10 to accrue his fifth-year season only.

Gordon stands to get a lot more money in free agency than he can get by playing significant games with the Chargers. The Chargers are unlikely to franchise him for the $12+M next year if he shows up in week 10.

IMO, the Chargers will ride Ekeler and Jackson similarly to how the Saints used Kamara and Ingram last season. Ekeler will get a lot of touches, but Jackson will also have a decent role.

Because the team will get a very good compensatory pick eventually when they lose Gordon, they are going to be willing to eat the pro-rated $5M contract this season for the number of games Gordon plays.

I put this holdout 90+% on the team as it could have been mitigated with a simple sitdown that would have led to a trade of Gordon.

The Chargers likely should have dealt him before the draft as there was no way they were going to ever offer more than 2 years, $20M and he was never going to take that. They have zero desire to sign him to a longterm deal.

This is the part I don't get. This is ideal for the Chargers. They get to ride him into the ground for 1/2 season for not a lot of $. Why would they trade him?

Next year who is going to be interested in signing a 27 year old RB for 3 years at $12M??? You could just use a 2nd round draft pick on a comparable RB and get him for cheap for 5 years.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

So he's going to lose (at least part of) $5.6MM this year by turning down a $10MM a year extension because he wants $13MM a year (a figure he's unlikely to see on the open market)? Seems like a really poor decision.

He will get guaranteed money north of that 16M imo.

Which is what RBs are more concerned about.

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

He will get guaranteed money north of that 16M imo.

Which is what RBs are more concerned about.

Assuming at least the first year of the extension was guaranteed that is what he’d have now $5.6MM + $10MM.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Assuming at least the first year of the extension was guaranteed that is what he’d have now $5.6MM + $10MM.

But he'd have to risk heavy usage for a year to get it right?

I'm not as fluent on Gordon's situation.. it seems they didn't really want him long term.

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21 minutes ago, matuski said:

But he'd have to risk heavy usage for a year to get it right?

I'm not as fluent on Gordon's situation.. it seems they didn't really want him long term.

They supposedly offered him an extension at $10MM a year for multiple years. So assuming at least that first year would be guaranteed then no.

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5 hours ago, Penguin said:

David Dodds @fbg_dodds

I am expecting Melvin Gordon to show up in week 10 to accrue his fifth-year season only.

Week 10 is a new one. It has been posted in this thread that he might need to report before week 9 and that he might need to report before week 13. Is there some basis for reporting "in week 10" which I assume means between weeks 9 and 10?

5 hours ago, Penguin said:

I put this holdout 90+% on the team as it could have been mitigated with a simple sitdown that would have led to a trade of Gordon.

Whenever the idea of a trade gets floated, I have to ask, what teams would have been willing to (a) pay Gordon the contract he wants and (b) give sufficient compensation to the Chargers for them to trade him? The compensation to the Chargers would have to be non-trivial, since they stand to get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him next year and maintain the possibility of having him to contribute to a possible Super Bowl run. I just don't see any team working out such a trade, whether before the draft or otherwise, especially considering his injury history.

5 hours ago, Penguin said:

there was no way they were going to ever offer more than 2 years, $20M

Has it been reported that they offered him just $20M or less guaranteed over the first 2 years of their contract offer? I haven't seen that reported.

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Just drafted him in a keeper league, 3.08. Roughly 40th player when you factor in keepers. So what do I have to do to get him to sign tomorrow?

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i think i'm staying away from Gordon, maybe take a flier in dynasty if can get for cheap but chances are his value will drop from being on SD.

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A lot of drafts this weekend, at what round do you feel the value offsets the risk and makes him draftable? His current ADP has him in the mid to late 3rd and has dropped 2 rounds in the last month. I would not draft him in the 3rd but would start looking at him at the 5/6 turn. I think it is unlikely he lasts that long so I probably will not have him on any of my teams.

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Maybe try to get Gordon and Eckler in 5th and 6th securing a top RB spot..

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8 hours ago, stlrams said:

Maybe try to get Gordon and Eckler in 5th and 6th securing a top RB spot..

In a draft last weekend, a team drafted Gordon in 5, and Ekeler in 7 in a 10-teamer.

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8 hours ago, stlrams said:

Maybe try to get Gordon and Eckler in 5th and 6th securing a top RB spot..

 

8 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

you will need justin jackson too

Yep, in PPR this can work.  But you'll still be able to use Ekeler as a flex once Gordon is back.  In standard, I see Ekeler as only a RB2/Flex even without Gordon.

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8 hours ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

you will need justin jackson too

Lac typically a one back team but worth a flyer very late.  

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I am in a 1 keeper 10 team ppr league. If Gordon makes it to round 4 I will draft him with no hesitation at all.

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The Gordon situation just has a feel to it that Melvin thinks that half a year off is not so bad and may be beneficial in the long run (pun). He saw a team pony up $$$ for Bell so why not him? He may not be Bell to us, but maybe he is to himself? Word around these parts is it will be a while before we see Gordon. LA will miss him before he misses them. The pressure of a Rivers win now situation also hurts LA and he knows it. I guess we will soon know.  

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21 minutes ago, BoltNlava said:

The Gordon situation just has a feel to it that Melvin thinks that half a year off is not so bad and may be beneficial in the long run (pun). He saw a team pony up $$$ for Bell so why not him? He may not be Bell to us, but maybe he is to himself? Word around these parts is it will be a while before we see Gordon. LA will miss him before he misses them. The pressure of a Rivers win now situation also hurts LA and he knows it. I guess we will soon know.  

every time I see your avatar I think of that wheel thing in Wall-E that pilots the big ship

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

every time I see your avatar I think of that wheel thing in Wall-E that pilots the big ship

HAL 9000: 

Dan Bowman : Hello, HAL. Do you read me, HAL?

HAL : Affirmative, Dan. I read you.

Dan Bowman : Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

HAL : I'm sorry, Dan. I'm afraid I can't do that.

Dan Bowman : What's the problem?

HAL : I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

Dan Bowman : What are you talking about, HAL?

HAL : This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

Dan Bowman : I don't know what you're talking about, HAL.

HAL : I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

Dan Bowman : [feigning ignorance]  Where the hell did you get that idea, HAL?

HAL : Dan, although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

Dan Bowman : Alright, HAL. I'll go in through the emergency airlock.

HAL : Without your space helmet, Dan? You're going to find that rather difficult.

Dan Bowman : HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors!

HAL : Dan, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

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Had a 10-man 0.5 ppr Snake draft last night, and he was still there for me at the beginning of the 7th. I felt like I had to take him there. I was praying Ekeler made it back to me in the 8th, and he did. I was actually surprised he dropped quite that far to be honest. 

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2 hours ago, BoltNlava said:

The pressure of a Rivers win now situation also hurts LA and he knows it. 

I dunno, they could have Barry Sanders in his prime but I've never seen a team with an OL as bad as the chargers(before any injuries even hit) get very far in the playoffs against quality teams every week. It seems to me people thinking that the chargers are just Gordon away from a SB run really need to go back and watch that NE game in the playoffs. 

This holdout has no suspense. The chargers aren't a legit SB contender even with Gordon, and Gordon isn't going to get the contract he thinks he deserves whether it's from la or anyone else. <yawn>

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59 minutes ago, JoeKappBudGrant said:

Based on need, three way trade.  Clpwney  to Redskins, Williams to Chargers, Gordon to Texans.

Straight up?  That makes zero sense.

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1 minute ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Straight up?  That makes zero sense.

not to mention the texans would still have to commit an absurd amount of money to a mediocre rb.  

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Putting this season aside for argument's sake how do people value him next season and beyond for keeper league purposes.  Seems like he's worth drafting, depending on roster sizes, and stashing for next season (and maybe get some benefit this year but who knows how that will play out). Of course lots of uncertainty on what team and situation he ends up in but could be a smart play.

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In a 12 team PPR draft last night, I drafted Ekeler at 6.3 with Gordon on the board, and Gordon was drafted at 6.5.

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14 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

In a 12 team PPR draft last night, I drafted Ekeler at 6.3 with Gordon on the board, and Gordon was drafted at 6.5.

If you are trying to win your league; I can't fathom how you see Ekeler getting that done in comparison to Gordon's current prospects.

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5 minutes ago, Garrett said:

If you are trying to win your league; I can't fathom how you see Ekeler getting that done in comparison to Gordon's current prospects.

6 games vs 10 at this point....personally im avoiding the chargers rb situation in redraft 

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7 hours ago, Garrett said:

If you are trying to win your league; I can't fathom how you see Ekeler getting that done in comparison to Gordon's current prospects.

  1. I think Gordon will hold out and miss games.
  2. I think Ekeler is very talented and is capable of being a low end RB1 in Gordon's absence.
  3. Gordon tends to get injured even when he doesn't miss camp and preseason. I think there is a good chance he will miss time due to injury after he returns.
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8 hours ago, Garrett said:

If you are trying to win your league; I can't fathom how you see Ekeler getting that done in comparison to Gordon's current prospects.

Ekeler could be a 6th round pick even if Gordon was already in camp and ready to go.  He was an excellent 3rd down passing catching back for the Chargers last year.  Increased touches without Gordon will only help his production (maybe 1-2 catches per game more, and 4-5 more carriers per game). 

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42 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:
  1. I think Gordon will hold out and miss games.
  2. I think Ekeler is very talented and is capable of being a low end RB1 in Gordon's absence.
  3. Gordon tends to get injured even when he doesn't miss camp and preseason. I think there is a good chance he will miss time due to injury after he returns.

Assuming Gordon holds out half the year, what are you anticipating the split to be with Ekeler and Jackson?

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hes gotta show up at some point to make it to FA. 

6 games is considered a full season, so he could be out till Week 10 or 11.  

If they don't get a deal done by start of the season then this is whats going to happen. 

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1 hour ago, chad in Indy said:

Assuming Gordon holds out half the year, what are you anticipating the split to be with Ekeler and Jackson?

With Gordon out and the other RBs healthy, to start out:

  • 60-65% Ekeler
  • 30-35% Jackson
  • 0-5% Other (Newsome or possibly Pope)

That could evolve based on performance. For example, if Ekeler or Jackson is dominant, the share could skew to that guy over time.

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What am I missing here about Ekeler? In PPR I guess he’s suitable but he’s no Darren Sproles in his heyday. Maybe I’m mis-remembering but once Jackson got in there, wasn’t he the better back? I seem to recall Ekeler being fine on swing passes but getting absolutely stuffed when used traditionally.

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3 hours ago, KellysHeroes said:

hes gotta show up at some point to make it to FA. 

6 games is considered a full season, so he could be out till Week 10 or 11.  

If they don't get a deal done by start of the season then this is whats going to happen. 

so bell had a loophole because he was francished right? gordon wasnt franchised. hadnt considered this until now

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Is there a realistic scenario where Gordon "reports" sometime before Week 10...but the Chargers (primarily for financial reasons) don't put him on the 53-man roster or he otherwise doesn't play in games?

With the Zeke holdout it's pretty clear once he comes back he's a plug and play RB1 from there...not so sure with Gordon.

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