Vicktimized
Footballguy
If you take out the run or runs where he had a huge hole, then you kind of also have to factor out the runs he was met in the backfield and had no chance.
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RB Jordan Howard , NO (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Borden
- Start date
flapgreen
Footballguy
he is clearly the more suited back. yea the Bear's offensive line and entire team is the issue, but he looks to be a bright spot on an abysmal team.
Skoo
Footballguy
All the bickering in here is pretty funny.
At least for the next few weeks, he's gonna get the lion's share of work.
In today's NFL, that's enough to be a must-add and a good start most weeks even on a bad team.
It would be different if it was still 2007 and there was 20 workhorse RBs you could lean on.
At least for the next few weeks, he's gonna get the lion's share of work.
In today's NFL, that's enough to be a must-add and a good start most weeks even on a bad team.
It would be different if it was still 2007 and there was 20 workhorse RBs you could lean on.
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Steeler
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
Lets avoid using the word abysmal shall we..
I recently watched some Lions ballplay.. I saw a back take the ball, run straight ahead maybe 3-5 steps right into the back of his own lineman, behind the LOS
My reaction was like "Oh No! That dam rookie is a bonehead SOB But NOPE This was the FF PPR Mr gadget himself Theo
Im not so sure how Dwayne looked, so nothing more to add..
But yeah, I believe Langford was looking pretty good in this game (far from overused), but Howard didnt really impress me much.. Im trully concerned that theres very little chance that Howard can earn the role in Langfords absence.. I do not like this situation, especially owning both..
Good Question Timmay!
I recently watched some Lions ballplay.. I saw a back take the ball, run straight ahead maybe 3-5 steps right into the back of his own lineman, behind the LOS
My reaction was like "Oh No! That dam rookie is a bonehead SOB But NOPE This was the FF PPR Mr gadget himself Theo
Im not so sure how Dwayne looked, so nothing more to add..
But yeah, I believe Langford was looking pretty good in this game (far from overused), but Howard didnt really impress me much.. Im trully concerned that theres very little chance that Howard can earn the role in Langfords absence.. I do not like this situation, especially owning both..
Good Question Timmay!
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Why can't people comprehend this? I know that the only thing that matters to a fantasy person is the total amount of yards and not how he got them. What we are trying to find out though is if he can continue to put up those numbers so we can decide if he's worth starting or not. In order to do that you need to look at how he's getting those yards and if that should be expected to happen each game.
When we look at how Howard got his yards we see that all of them came on two runs which only happened due to huge holes to run through. Is he going to have those holes to run through each game? If you don't think that's going to happen very often then we have to rely on what he gets with poor blocking. Do you like his odds running behind poor blocking?
I thought he looked good in the passing game and I think that's a little easier to project for him since the Bears are passing so much. As for determining his rushing yards I would not want to rely on it. Have to hope he scores a TD because that OL is not opening many holes for any RB.
I hope this makes more sense as to why I've been debating the subject.
When we look at how Howard got his yards we see that all of them came on two runs which only happened due to huge holes to run through. Is he going to have those holes to run through each game? If you don't think that's going to happen very often then we have to rely on what he gets with poor blocking. Do you like his odds running behind poor blocking?
I thought he looked good in the passing game and I think that's a little easier to project for him since the Bears are passing so much. As for determining his rushing yards I would not want to rely on it. Have to hope he scores a TD because that OL is not opening many holes for any RB.
I hope this makes more sense as to why I've been debating the subject.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I think he's my RB5.
Freeman & Ingram can do a lot of damage with limited usage. Duke does just enough to keep me from cutting him. D-wayne Swagger might get the bulk of the work this week and I like his ability to bust a long one (we have bonuses for 40+.) Henry is probably my RB6 because the guy in front of him is playing like an All Pro. I'm about to add Dixon just to drive myself completely bonkers.
I don't feel like any of these guys will be THE key to my championship, but consistent output would be an awesome starting point. Just looking for the highest floor.
As frustrating as the Falcons & Saints starting tailbacks are to start every week, both have a higher ceiling than the other 5 I mentioned. I might flex Howard during a bye week but hard to see him getting dusted off for anything else.
Freeman & Ingram can do a lot of damage with limited usage. Duke does just enough to keep me from cutting him. D-wayne Swagger might get the bulk of the work this week and I like his ability to bust a long one (we have bonuses for 40+.) Henry is probably my RB6 because the guy in front of him is playing like an All Pro. I'm about to add Dixon just to drive myself completely bonkers.
I don't feel like any of these guys will be THE key to my championship, but consistent output would be an awesome starting point. Just looking for the highest floor.
As frustrating as the Falcons & Saints starting tailbacks are to start every week, both have a higher ceiling than the other 5 I mentioned. I might flex Howard during a bye week but hard to see him getting dusted off for anything else.
No the Bears are abysmal... Howard has done more with the terrible blocking than Langford has. Langford has looked terrible, and is now dealing with a severe sprained ankle and is likely out for 4-6 weeks.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
You're right. The Bears do have the chance for their OL to improve since it was put together so late. The middle of that line should be pretty damn good but Massie at RT has been very bad. Howard does have value right now but the Bears are going to have to call a better game. The defense needs to make stops early so the Bears can try and run the ball more. They aren't going to run when they fall behind 17 points before they get their first 1st down.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Seriously? Have you not been following along on here? How has Howard done more with the terrible blocking? I'm pretty sure we've already shot down that theory.
Dismattle
Footballguy
Langford had 30 some yards on three touch's I know ya missed Theo's 10 carries for nine yards though!
Langford, and the Bears had two rough games to start.. Think this last one, wasnt so much on Langford at all. Now if Howard is gonna be doing carries at a ratio of 1 -1 2 1 etc., that sounds more like a ten touch guy who can hammer out an 80 yd play. I dont think ya want him trying to bust out short yardage the whole game. Now he may be better than Langford! Im just saying, Im not so sure.. ya can ease up on quoting if ya like
Langford, and the Bears had two rough games to start.. Think this last one, wasnt so much on Langford at all. Now if Howard is gonna be doing carries at a ratio of 1 -1 2 1 etc., that sounds more like a ten touch guy who can hammer out an 80 yd play. I dont think ya want him trying to bust out short yardage the whole game. Now he may be better than Langford! Im just saying, Im not so sure.. ya can ease up on quoting if ya like
WheelsUp
Footballguy
It seems to me the basic fundamentals of fantasy football are getting away from people. Who cares about the kids talent, he has the opportunity of an every down back for at lest a few weeks. That type of value is huge and it doesnt matter who it is. It only takes one long run or a TD plunge. The game of fantasy has so many intricacies that one or two plays changes everything in any given week.
Steeler
Footballguy
It doent matter who is the better RB between langford and howard because howard is healthy and langford isnt. Howard has a chance to win the job and having a starting RB on my fantasy teams is desirable (excellent strategy, eh?). Ill wait to see what happens long term, but short term i could see starting hm in the one league where im hurting at RB. If he doesn't win the job or sucks (due to him oe the bears in general) I'll send him back to the WW. Seems reasonable 
flapgreen
Footballguy
The inside of their OL is solid with 2 Pro Bowl guards. That should open up some running lanes. Not sure what you're meaning. There will be some holes. It's the tackles that suck.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
The inside of their line has looked good on paper but not that great on the field yet. It is by far the strength of the line but they still need a lot of work which is understandable with how late it was all put together. I know the tackles suck and they are the biggest reason as to why the OL is struggling so much.
Here are the biggest things to remember when talking about the Bear's OL. Sitton joined the team the week before the first game and has had very little practice with the team. Whitehair is a rookie who's best position is guard but was put at center right before the first game. Long is playing with a torn labrum which will affect his play. Massie may be the worst starting tackle in the game right now. Leno is barely good enough to be a starter.
What is it you don't understand?
lol... did you not watch week 2, or the final game of the pre-season?? Howard has done more. And regardless Langford is out at least 4-6 weeks. It's Howard's job to lose
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
The Langford injury is the only thing sealing the deal for Howard. Other than that he hasn't done anything that much better than Langford. The only game I didn't watch completely was week 1 and Howard never played in it so I have been paying attention. I have been watching the game while discussing it in a Bears chat room with others.
I think people see some of these big runs that Howard had and think that makes him better than Langford but in reality those runs are due to big holes to run through. When you watch Langford get the same blocking you see him break off some big runs too.
mquinnjr
Footballguy
In competitive leagues you should need a 25%+ bid to acquire. A volume RB for a large sample of the season with a chance to win work for effectively free (vs. a draft day auction bid knowing the same situation) is a chance you take even if he turns out to be a dud.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
A lot of Langford owners bought in with him "carrying the bulk of the load" in mind. Here are the snap count %s for first 3 weeks:
Wk1 96% pretty much the full load
Wk2 60% Kadeem was taking significant portion until injured
Wk3 23% (injured but was giving up a large chunk of the snaps to Howard even before going down)
So where was Langford being drafted at the start of the season? He was early in the 5th round around RB24 iirc. Partly because the only serious threat was a rookie and everybody "knows" Fox doesn't play rookies much. Langford never was drafted based upon talent or astounding skills. Even as a starter getting the bulk of the load he was borderline RB2.No it was based upon opportunity. He would have been ranked RB36+ if he was perceived to be in a time split situation with Vareen in NY or with Yeldon in JAX. Most of his value was based upon his opportunity and the lion share of the carries in CHI.
At a minimum, now Howard is going to get that opportunity, actually he will get a longer leash/look than Langford's one game to prove himself by shear fact that nobody else is left standing in CHI. Langford really only got one game as the bell cow and Fox had already seen enough to take a large portion of the carries from him in game two and three even before he went down to injury.
So even if you think Howard is a JAG, there is no doubt opportunity, a greater opportunity than Langford got for the next 4 weeks. Getting a borderline RB2 off the waiver wire is a pretty good thing. Now if he can run with the opportunity, and can show he has more talent than Langford, there is possibility he could perform as a solid RB2 or even borderline RB1 in value for the ROS. We know two things. He wont get pulled from the goal line opps (and he runs with effective power/leverage to be effective at the goal line, much more so than Langford) and he can catch passes in catchup mode where most people thin CHI will be spending their 2nd half in games. Howard has shown he can catch passes so there is no need for a 3rd down back (which would have limited his upside). That gives him a pretty good floor aside from the line problems CHI might have, much like other 3 down pass catching backs around the league.
So yeah getting that kind of value off the WW with that kind of potential upside and floor should excite most FFB players in spite of grumpy Langford owners who state, "If my guy couldn't produce, then your guy won't either" type mantra. It comes off as sour grapes. Some people saw this coming after game two and picked him up last week. They could not have possibly known Langford would get injured like he did, but we did see a trend in snap counts that indicated Howard was going to eventually start pressing for action. And now that Langford is out of the picture entirely, who isn't going to get excited about a highly graded rookie prospect that is going to get handed the full load where he was on the waiver wire last week? Of course he will get hyped a bit.
Wk1 96% pretty much the full load
Wk2 60% Kadeem was taking significant portion until injured
Wk3 23% (injured but was giving up a large chunk of the snaps to Howard even before going down)
So where was Langford being drafted at the start of the season? He was early in the 5th round around RB24 iirc. Partly because the only serious threat was a rookie and everybody "knows" Fox doesn't play rookies much. Langford never was drafted based upon talent or astounding skills. Even as a starter getting the bulk of the load he was borderline RB2.No it was based upon opportunity. He would have been ranked RB36+ if he was perceived to be in a time split situation with Vareen in NY or with Yeldon in JAX. Most of his value was based upon his opportunity and the lion share of the carries in CHI.
At a minimum, now Howard is going to get that opportunity, actually he will get a longer leash/look than Langford's one game to prove himself by shear fact that nobody else is left standing in CHI. Langford really only got one game as the bell cow and Fox had already seen enough to take a large portion of the carries from him in game two and three even before he went down to injury.
So even if you think Howard is a JAG, there is no doubt opportunity, a greater opportunity than Langford got for the next 4 weeks. Getting a borderline RB2 off the waiver wire is a pretty good thing. Now if he can run with the opportunity, and can show he has more talent than Langford, there is possibility he could perform as a solid RB2 or even borderline RB1 in value for the ROS. We know two things. He wont get pulled from the goal line opps (and he runs with effective power/leverage to be effective at the goal line, much more so than Langford) and he can catch passes in catchup mode where most people thin CHI will be spending their 2nd half in games. Howard has shown he can catch passes so there is no need for a 3rd down back (which would have limited his upside). That gives him a pretty good floor aside from the line problems CHI might have, much like other 3 down pass catching backs around the league.
So yeah getting that kind of value off the WW with that kind of potential upside and floor should excite most FFB players in spite of grumpy Langford owners who state, "If my guy couldn't produce, then your guy won't either" type mantra. It comes off as sour grapes. Some people saw this coming after game two and picked him up last week. They could not have possibly known Langford would get injured like he did, but we did see a trend in snap counts that indicated Howard was going to eventually start pressing for action. And now that Langford is out of the picture entirely, who isn't going to get excited about a highly graded rookie prospect that is going to get handed the full load where he was on the waiver wire last week? Of course he will get hyped a bit.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
The part I put in bold isn't really true. Langford had 3 carries and 2 catches before he got hurt. Howard had 4 carries and 1 catch during that period. Almost all of Howard's production during that period was in one series too.
So basically they were splitting everything and both were getting the job done when given the opportunity. I didn't see it as Howard taking over at all.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
I never state that Howard took over. I said Langford lost his role as the 96% snap guy bell cow. Going from 96% of the snaps to a time share split with a rookie in game 3 is losing a large portion of the previous carries. Langford had 17 rushes and 4 targets in game one, 11 rushes and 2 targets in game 2 and Kadeem was getting early carries until he got injured. Basically he lost his role as the bell cow after one game. Game 3 was a continuation of a time split with Howard by your own research with 5 touches each at the point Langford went down.
"Langford really only got one game as the bell cow and Fox had already seen enough to take a large portion of the carries from him in game two and three even before he went down to injury. "
I don't see how that statement is false. He started the year with a large portion of the carries and by game three Fox was splitting his touches with a rookie.
"Langford really only got one game as the bell cow and Fox had already seen enough to take a large portion of the carries from him in game two and three even before he went down to injury. "
I don't see how that statement is false. He started the year with a large portion of the carries and by game three Fox was splitting his touches with a rookie.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Did anyone else hear Chris Collingsworth on SNF say something to the effect of he just thought it was a matter of time before Howard took over as the Bears feature RB. And that was before Langford's injury.
Despite Hawkeye21's best legal defense efforts here there are numerous signs pointing to Langford having a very tenuous grip as the lead back before getting hurt.
-Advanced metrics that I believe ranked him among, if not the, least elusive RB in all of football
-Below avg ypc last season and this season
-Fox commenting on yards left on the field after week 1.
-Howard producing better results admittedly with a limited sample size but still better production no matter how people want to try to qualify them.
I havent seen every snap this season and did think Langford looked better before getting hurt on SNF but I don't think there is any question that at the very least, Howard has earned a significant share of carries when Langford gets back and, depending on how well he plays, Howard could be the lead back going forward when both are healthy.
The Bears offense is nothing to get too excited about but as mentioned earlier, any RB getting touches has value in FF these days. Glad I picked up Howard last week for depth in one league and was disappointed to miss on him in another. The injury to Langford just raised his ceiling, at least in the short term, considerably.
Despite Hawkeye21's best legal defense efforts here there are numerous signs pointing to Langford having a very tenuous grip as the lead back before getting hurt.
-Advanced metrics that I believe ranked him among, if not the, least elusive RB in all of football
-Below avg ypc last season and this season
-Fox commenting on yards left on the field after week 1.
-Howard producing better results admittedly with a limited sample size but still better production no matter how people want to try to qualify them.
I havent seen every snap this season and did think Langford looked better before getting hurt on SNF but I don't think there is any question that at the very least, Howard has earned a significant share of carries when Langford gets back and, depending on how well he plays, Howard could be the lead back going forward when both are healthy.
The Bears offense is nothing to get too excited about but as mentioned earlier, any RB getting touches has value in FF these days. Glad I picked up Howard last week for depth in one league and was disappointed to miss on him in another. The injury to Langford just raised his ceiling, at least in the short term, considerably.
chad in Indy
Footballguy
How does Carey play into this when he comes back? I don't own any of them, but I thought Carey's injury wasn't that bad and may even be back this week.
rider down
Footballguy
more cow bell...just depth since langford out 4-6 weeks?
Sigmund Bloom Retweeted
Dave Birkett @davebirkett 12m12 minutes ago
Dave Birkett Retweeted Rand Getlin
Joique Bell vs. the Lions on Sunday at Soldier Field
Dave Birkett added,
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin
I'm told RB Joique Bell is signing with the#Bears
Sigmund Bloom Retweeted
Dave Birkett
Dave Birkett Retweeted Rand Getlin
Joique Bell vs. the Lions on Sunday at Soldier Field
Dave Birkett added,
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin
I'm told RB Joique Bell is signing with the
flapgreen
Footballguy
Moral of the story: Don't trust anyone on this team. Offense is in shambles. In theory, the inside run game should be solid but the ####### OC has no idea what he's doing so it hasn't worked that way. Going into the 3rd game of the season with your backup on the road with an ol that's playing horribly and you throw the ball 49 damn times. Just absolute foolishness.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Did you see the Bears try to run up the middle this week? It wasn't good. I know that's where the talent is on the OL but they did not open and holes for their RBs. Howard was either getting hit as soon as he got the ball or was running right into the backs of his linemen for 7 of his 9 carries. His two good runs were outside of the tackles. Hopefully they start playing better together soon because they really need to get the run game going.
DropKick
Footballguy
If Tim Hightower can come back from a 4 year lay-off, JC can return from a 2,000 year hiatus - Just the blink of an eye from an eternal perspective.
He could be huge in my PPR (Points/Redemption) league. I would expect him to be rusty, though.
Disclaimer: we have short benches and I don't own JC in any formats.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Everyone still high on Howard?
Captain Crunk
Footballguy
I burned my #1 waiver on him and feel good about it. Chicago has a great schedule for the next few games and he has the opportunity to take the job long term. He will be my flex while my team heals from injuries and to help with bye weeks.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I got him last week for 9%. I'd say over 25 now, so you have the right idea.MattFancy said:
MattFancy
Footballguy
So someone got him for 61% of our budget. He's been decimated with injuries so far, but holy crap that's a big chunk of change on him.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
animalchin8
Footballguy
Here is Jordan howard looking great in the Bears V Browns preseason game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_xsLI0nq4
98 yards rush 33 yards recieving (131 total) 1 TD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_xsLI0nq4
98 yards rush 33 yards recieving (131 total) 1 TD
From these clips and from what I saw in the last game he sure looks good running through gaping holes.
Positive: He's going to be involved in the passing game if CHI is down.
Negative: Doesn't look too quick or have much wiggle. This doesn't look like a dynamic RB by any means.
All that said, if he's the only game in town, he could be a low level RB2/high flex due to volume. Doesn't hurt that CHI has a pretty soft schedule as well.
Dismattle
Footballguy
fwiw I dropped Langford It felt strange because the guys like 90%+ owned on Yahoo
Luckily Howard was drafted, but then dropped!
It could be worse like the Dolphins dilemma, but it isnt looking so great just yet..
I gotta figure the Bears grab another back next Season, but hopefully we enjoy the Howard show this Season...
Luckily Howard was drafted, but then dropped!
It could be worse like the Dolphins dilemma, but it isnt looking so great just yet..
I gotta figure the Bears grab another back next Season, but hopefully we enjoy the Howard show this Season...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing with respect to the schedule. This week & next are plus matchups. But in the 7 weeks after that he's playing 5 of the top 8 defenses FFPA to RB plus a bye. The only plus matchup between Week 6 and Thabksgiving is @TB Week 10.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
IMHO this is bad practice, especially looking that far ahead this early in the season. There's not enough data to hang your hat on as to who the "top defenses" are and you still would have injuries to factor in as well.
You're just trying to add people (especially at RB) who may receive a bulk of the carries and he seems to be in that situation.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Based on last year's records the Bears are considered to have one of the easiest schedules in the NFL this year.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
He's on my roster. Probably in my lineup this year. Pretty good chance he'll be a starter often between now and their Week 9 bye.
But early season or not, I'm comfortable saying GB, MIN, & NYG have the personnel to continue being good good run defenses. But should probably wait n see on JAX & TEN.
