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17 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Not sure I agree with you. Let me try another approach. 

It is now politically incorrect to make the OK sign with your hand. For 99% of my life it was perfectly fine, or at least it wasn't considered by society as being wrong. Is everyone that gave the OK sign 5 years ago a white supremacist?

Honestly, I think someone needs to publish a politically incorrect guide. Seems like things are changing every day. So, probably dont want to publish it in paperback, digital would be better.

I believe the Anti Defamation League does this. If not them, someone does. 
 

Edit: and your question is why people say things like “uh, no, Trudeau, brown face wasn’t socially acceptable in the 2000s.”

Edited by Henry Ford

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“Vulgar and offensive” often depends on the intent of the person saying or writing it, rather than the words itself. 

For example, a few minutes ago @boots11234 wrote of AOC, “I am glad she won’t have children.” I found that about as vulgar and offensive as anything I have read in this forum in years. Yet boots wasn’t politically incorrect, he didn’t use bad language. All he did was express a very cruel sentiment on a person he doesn’t know. And to me that was uglier than all the bad language. 

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42 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I believe the Anti Defamation League does this. If not them, someone does. 
 

Edit: and your question is why people say things like “uh, no, Trudeau, brown face wasn’t socially acceptable in the 2000s.”

I'm looking at it from a behavioural standpoint. Specifically positive, neutral, and negative reinforcement by society to ones behaviour. With th OK sign we moved from positive to negative fairly quickly. With blackface we moved from neutral to negative reinforcement. And terms identifying transgendered people, from I dont know what, to negative. I'd also throw in things like statues, th National Anthem, and the cross or ten commandments. The changes come fast and often without much warning. Partly because not all of us are black, or transgender, or Christian. We have been conditioned to act a certain way all our lives. We've been playing by the same rules, then someone changes the rulebook. A rulebook that doesn't exist and the only time youre made aware of it is when you break a new rule.

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With apologies to both Rockaction and Henry, since they are both done with this, I have to comment because reading these threads has been bugging me. 

Despite the impressive and focused search efforts (:rolleyes:) for the “gotcha”, these inane charges of hypocrisy miss the point...totally.

It was never about someone using the slur...per se. It was about the doubling and tripling down once it was pointed out. It was the determined effort to not back down in the face of “political correctness”. I mean, I didn’t know the word in question was a slur and I’m pretty damned politically correct. I’ve never had reason to spend a lot of time thinking about it or interacting with that language.

As Koya has pointed out, why the resistance to being sensitive to language if it causes no tangible harm to those asked to be sensitive to It?

I’ve told the story before, I was humiliated in my 20’s when, working with emotionally disturbed teenagers, I was walking around saying “Mammy....ooohhh Mammy”. I thought it was funny because it sounded funny, had no idea where I had heard it. When my work partner-black guy and my best friend at the time-told me it was racist, I was horrified.

I didn’t rail against political correctness, I didn’t angrily insist I could say whatever TF I wanted. I profusely apologized and thought about it.

Its ok to be ignorant about the intent, symbolism,  power of words. I didn’t think it was ok to reject those concerns. Rock obviously reached the same conclusion. He’s a smart and decent individual imo. 

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4 minutes ago, Ranethe said:

With apologies to both Rockaction and Henry, since they are both done with this, I have to comment because reading these threads has been bugging me. 

Despite the impressive and focused search efforts (:rolleyes:) for the “gotcha”, these inane charges of hypocrisy miss the point...totally.

It was never about someone using the slur...per se. It was about the doubling and tripling down once it was pointed out. It was the determined effort to not back down in the face of “political correctness”. I mean, I didn’t know the word in question was a slur and I’m pretty damned politically correct. I’ve never had reason to spend a lot of time thinking about it or interacting with that language.

As Koya has pointed out, why the resistance to being sensitive to language if it causes no tangible harm to those asked to be sensitive to It?

I’ve told the story before, I was humiliated in my 20’s when, working with emotionally disturbed teenagers, I was walking around saying “Mammy....ooohhh Mammy”. I thought it was funny because it sounded funny, had no idea where I had heard it. When my work partner-black guy and my best friend at the time-told me it was racist, I was horrified.

I didn’t rail against political correctness, I didn’t angrily insist I could say whatever TF I wanted. I profusely apologized and thought about it.

Its ok to be ignorant about the intent, symbolism,  power of words. I didn’t think it was ok to reject those concerns. Rock obviously reached the same conclusion. He’s a smart and decent individual imo. 

Given the sources/attitudes (who's apologized, owned and moved on vs who's continuing to troll after the apologies and ownership of their actions) this should be comical to you, not bugging you.  It's quite the show...sit back and enjoy it for what it is.

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47 minutes ago, KCitons said:

I'm looking at it from a behavioural standpoint. Specifically positive, neutral, and negative reinforcement by society to ones behaviour. With th OK sign we moved from positive to negative fairly quickly. With blackface we moved from neutral to negative reinforcement. And terms identifying transgendered people, from I dont know what, to negative. I'd also throw in things like statues, th National Anthem, and the cross or ten commandments. The changes come fast and often without much warning. Partly because not all of us are black, or transgender, or Christian. We have been conditioned to act a certain way all our lives. We've been playing by the same rules, then someone changes the rulebook. A rulebook that doesn't exist and the only time youre made aware of it is when you break a new rule.

I was talking with my brother once about the bedtime stories we were read by my father. Took us about thirty seconds to both mention our chagrin when we realized through conversation that not everyone was read Uncle Remus stories as a kid.  And what the Tar Baby story really was about. 

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34 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I was talking with my brother once about the bedtime stories we were read by my father. Took us about thirty seconds to both mention our chagrin when we realized through conversation that not everyone was read Uncle Remus stories as a kid.  And what the Tar Baby story really was about. 

The point that seems to be missed is the social acceptance. If you were a white woman dating a black man in the late 1800's were you socially accepted. Those same social pressures are working in reverse, and for the better. I'm just pointing out the difficulty of the process. Depending on age, there could be people that may have been politically incorrect before and again now. Where is this knowledge acquired? Is it reasonable expectation that everyone will be on the cutting edge of changes in all areas?

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1 hour ago, Ranethe said:

With apologies to both Rockaction and Henry, since they are both done with this, I have to comment because reading these threads has been bugging me. 

Despite the impressive and focused search efforts (:rolleyes:) for the “gotcha”, these inane charges of hypocrisy miss the point...totally.

It was never about someone using the slur...per se. It was about the doubling and tripling down once it was pointed out. It was the determined effort to not back down in the face of “political correctness”. I mean, I didn’t know the word in question was a slur and I’m pretty damned politically correct. I’ve never had reason to spend a lot of time thinking about it or interacting with that language.

As Koya has pointed out, why the resistance to being sensitive to language if it causes no tangible harm to those asked to be sensitive to It?

I’ve told the story before, I was humiliated in my 20’s when, working with emotionally disturbed teenagers, I was walking around saying “Mammy....ooohhh Mammy”. I thought it was funny because it sounded funny, had no idea where I had heard it. When my work partner-black guy and my best friend at the time-told me it was racist, I was horrified.

I didn’t rail against political correctness, I didn’t angrily insist I could say whatever TF I wanted. I profusely apologized and thought about it.

Its ok to be ignorant about the intent, symbolism,  power of words. I didn’t think it was ok to reject those concerns. Rock obviously reached the same conclusion. He’s a smart and decent individual imo. 

There was more than one lesson learned here. I only did a search because it was mentioned that the term was only used in Who's Hottest threads, which I thought was odd since most, if not all, have been purged. It wasn't for a "gotcha" Once found, I didn't think it was something that should be ignored given the heat taken by rock to begin with. You're free to judge whether the charges of hypocrisy are inane or not but the point wasn't missed.

 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Not sure I agree with you. Let me try another approach. 

It is now politically incorrect to make the OK sign with your hand. For 99% of my life it was perfectly fine, or at least it wasn't considered by society as being wrong. Is everyone that gave the OK sign 5 years ago a white supremacist?

Honestly, I think someone needs to publish a politically incorrect guide. Seems like things are changing every day. So, probably dont want to publish it in paperback, digital would be better.

I didn't know that.    I hope some group doesn't take 'thumbs up' away from us too.   

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3 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

I didn't know that.    I hope some group doesn't take 'thumbs up' away from us too.   

Keep your hands in your pockets, you'll be fine.

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I was also thinking about the way the FCC has changed its stance in regards to what is acceptable on TV. Cable certainly change it a lot. But, there is a lot more curse words and beeps (even though you know what they are saying). This didn't happen 30 years ago. However there are people that are still offended by the language being used. Theyre even offended by some of the attire worn by people today. Somehow society decides it's okay. This month we had the POTUS tweet the word bull$#&* and it was reported on main stream media news outlets without the beep. 

Just seems odd how we decide what is or isn't offensive and how we communicate those changes. Seems very reactive and not so much proactive.

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15 minutes ago, jamny said:

There was more than one lesson learned here. I only did a search because it was mentioned that the term was only used in Who's Hottest threads, which I thought was odd since most, if not all, have been purged. It wasn't for a "gotcha" Once found, I didn't think it was something that should be ignored given the heat taken by rock to begin with. You're free to judge whether the charges of hypocrisy are inane or not but the point wasn't missed.

 

FWIW I wasn’t remotely referring to you. I wasn’t even aware you had searched anything. If you had, and posted anything, I must have missed it. Had I noticed, I wouldn’t have assumed that of you.

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6 hours ago, Koya said:

Whether its this forum or otherwise, no one is asking you to run around and figure out anything.   Is it too much to ask that when something is pointed out as a slur then we have the decency to respectfully not use that term?

 

I mean, is it that difficult? And what does it say if someone learns that a term is harmful and hurtful, and still chooses, on purpose, to use that term? Forget about how long it's been accepted as an epithet. Forget who's "dictionary" or "PC guide" it may or may not appear - why would anyone choose to use a word that is hurtful and harmful to others, in those people's estimation and experience?

And for those foolish or naive enough to think it's just "words" - google the news. There's been a terrifying rash of murders and assaults on Trans people.  It's sickening and saddening- those words absolutely contribute to the atmosphere where these things occur. 

It's saddening that at the best, some just don't care. And worse, others want to seemingly provoke using the same terms we now know are just that - harmful, hurtful. When you recognize the context of other harassment and dangers, it's actually quite scary. We should be better than this, as a country, in my estimation (I do believe that while many things about the next generation are just the same as when the previous was the next, they have a far greater understanding and respect for the range of humanity that we represent, and accept far more simply for who they are).

 

FYI - we aren't talking about PC run amok, but generally accepted epithets and certainly terms that when used, make a good number of people feel less safe, certainly less welcome, and whatever someone personally believes about a word or term, why use something that does that?

Yes it is that difficult, some still use and like the word tranny. Until one of my tranny friends asks me not to use it I'll use whatever word I damn well please in real life. In pretent fantasy forum I'll try to follow Joe's rules, which I havent seen a ruling yet, but I know some mods have used the word in the past though so there is that. 

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4 hours ago, KCitons said:

Keep your hands in your pockets, you'll be fine.

Walking through some neighborhoods, you want your hands out of your pockets to show those watching you that they are empty.

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6 hours ago, timschochet said:

I found that about as vulgar and offensive as anything I have read in this forum in years.

What????? 

That doesn't even make any sense. He isn't making fun of some medical condition she has or saying she is unattractive. He is mostly mocking her for her statements about how  is it okay to still have children? 

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:42 PM, tonydead said:

The biggest one was tripple A batteries.  I mean I even started feeling uncomfortable.  Then again if you add all the Tanners together its probably a close race for T. 

Is that the one where he called a female attorney who appears on a news station he doesn't like a tranny?

 

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Yes it is that difficult, some still use and like the word tranny. Until one of my tranny friends asks me not to use it I'll use whatever word I damn well please in real life. In pretent fantasy forum I'll try to follow Joe's rules, which I havent seen a ruling yet, but I know some mods have used the word in the past though so there is that. 

You seem mean.

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35 minutes ago, Mister CIA said:
2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Yes it is that difficult, some still use and like the word tranny. Until one of my tranny friends asks me not to use it I'll use whatever word I damn well please in real life. In pretent fantasy forum I'll try to follow Joe's rules, which I havent seen a ruling yet, but I know some mods have used the word in the past though so there is that. 

You seem mean.

He's not mean, he's just angry. And he's taking out his anger on this forum, thinking that weaponizing a word will make libs cry.

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7 hours ago, tonydead said:

Yes it is that difficult, some still use and like the word tranny. Until one of my tranny friends asks me not to use it I'll use whatever word I damn well please in real life. In pretent fantasy forum I'll try to follow Joe's rules, which I havent seen a ruling yet, but I know some mods have used the word in the past though so there is that. 

I applaud you for having multiple such friends.  Many people automatically shy away from such relationships.

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6 hours ago, [scooter] said:

He's not mean, he's just angry. And he's taking out his anger on this forum, thinking that weaponizing a word will make libs cry.

You and the regulars have been doing that for years, why can’t he?

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On 10/11/2019 at 10:42 PM, tonydead said:

The biggest one was tripple A batteries.  I mean I even started feeling uncomfortable.  Then again if you add all the Tanners together its probably a close race for T. 

Wait - what?  I’m not even sure what this is about.  I have use “tranny” all the time in the past joking around if that’s what you are asking.  Guilty as charged.  Also, I have no clue if the term is offensive as I don’t know any transvestites.  I’ve probably used it recently too.

Is that what this is about?

 

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Wait - what?  I’m not even sure what this is about.  I have use “tranny” all the time in the past joking around if that’s what you are asking.  Guilty as charged.  Also, I have no clue if the term is offensive as I don’t know any transvestites.  I’ve probably used it recently too.

Is that what this is about?

I started a thread, used the word, defended it, and things went from there. I later apologized. Turns out that people that were telling me not to use it have used it in the past on this very board. It was a vehement protestation of me using the word, ergo, the past few pages of this thread. And here we are...

I think we should sort of drop it now. In the words of Fugazi (or the Catholics) "We are all here. And we are all. Guilty!"

:)

eta* The thread was deleted by a mod. My apology is halfway down the front page. 

Edited by rockaction

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People are doing forum searches for usage of “tranny” and I’m one of the biggest offenders?  Huh.  This is weird on so many levels.  Can I get summary of what is going on?  If it’s helps - I haven’t been in this thread in a while and while I saw the rockaction thread I just kind of skipped it as I had no clue what was going on - although that’s somewhat typical of rock’s thread ;)  - just kidding rock.

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

People are doing forum searches for usage of “tranny” and I’m one of the biggest offenders?  Huh.  This is weird on so many levels.  Can I get summary of what is going on?  If it’s helps - I haven’t been in this thread in a while and while I saw the rockaction thread I just kind of skipped it as I had no clue what was going on - although that’s somewhat typical of rock’s thread ;)  - just kidding rock.

I'm sort of bowing out, but figured since you were involved, I'd do you the courtesy of a summation. You've essentially got it. And that rockaction thread about bathrooms made little sense, either, so you didn't miss much. It's sort of impossible to do with clarity when the thread has been deleted. Faulty memories and all.

Peace. Back to song lyrics. 

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

People are doing forum searches for usage of “tranny” and I’m one of the biggest offenders?  Huh.  This is weird on so many levels.  Can I get summary of what is going on?  If it’s helps - I haven’t been in this thread in a while and while I saw the rockaction thread I just kind of skipped it as I had no clue what was going on - although that’s somewhat typical of rock’s thread ;)  - just kidding rock.

Yes...because Rock got called out, mostly by those whoa re anti Trump...a few went and searched and posted all the people critical of Trump who have used the word.  Even if they weren’t involved  in the discussion.

And I get called board cop :lmao:

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I started a thread, used the word, defended it, and things went from there. I later apologized. Turns out that people that were telling me not to use it have used it in the past on this very board. It was a vehement protestation of me using the word, ergo, the past few pages of this thread. And here we are...

I think we should sort of drop it now. In the words of Fugazi (or the Catholics) "We are all here. And we are all. Guilty!"

:)

eta* The thread was deleted by a mod. My apology is halfway down the front page. 

Thanks - got it.  I guess I can chalk that term up to other terms I used in the past that become offensive.  For my part I love humor but don’t want to hurt or offend someone who is truly insulted by it.  I honestly had no clue this term was offensive to some but I’ve lived a sheltered life.

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I guess I can chalk that term up to other terms I used in the past that become offensive.

If you're talking about the f-bomb, yes, I am guilty of that too as a young man. In the apology thread I simply said at one point that we can only control now and can't erase the past, only learn from it. 

The term I used is indeed offensive to some, but I thought the origins and reclamation of the word rendered it okay. Origins and reclamations do not suffice for a lot of folk. Ergo, given that I don't want to insult people or slur them, I won't use it on this board and am almost totally likely not to ever IRL again, either. 

Edited by rockaction
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And maybe this exchange between you and I have gotten people of each other's asses for the time being.

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6 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

Thanks - got it.  I guess I can chalk that term up to other terms I used in the past that become offensive.  For my part I love humor but don’t want to hurt or offend someone who is truly insulted by it.  I honestly had no clue this term was offensive to some but I’ve lived a sheltered life.

Hence, the need for an annual Political Correctness Almanac. How else is a person supposed to keep up?

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9 minutes ago, rockaction said:

And maybe this exchange between you and I have gotten people of each other's asses for the time being.

And we thank you for that exchange - in the end it’s served a number of positive ends. Plus, It takes a strong person to admit that perhaps our language is antiquated or that we were wrong in a stance we took.
 

More importantly, perhaps the conversation helped educate others about a term for which,  a number of people don’t recognize the pain it inflicts and the slur it represents. At least those with enough heart to listen.

As I noted before, this is not about offending the general member of the board - and while some stubbornly hold onto the lie that this is some liberal issue (it’s not, it’s about being a decent human being who respects others and at the least, doesn’t want to harm nor degrade others), the fact is a whole bunch of non liberals seem to fall on the right side of this discussion - on these boards and otherwise. The weak cop out of blaming the “libs only” tactic merely demonstrates a lack of ability to meaningfully counter the valid commentary about those who stubbornly still hold onto forwarding hateful and hurtful language. 

For me, when it was pointed out that a posters child is trans, and some choose to STILL hold onto their stance that no one “told” them the word is a slur, well, it was saddening and disheartening. At that - and therefore this - point, it’s hate for hate reason, it’s lack of caring for the lack of a heart, it’s pain is the purpose - and you can’t blame the lack of a PC playbook or moderation. At the point when a parent of a trans child in THIS community confirms how ugly and wrong that word is, there is no longer any excuse.  Use the word, but accept what such a stance says about you, your humanity or lack there of. Because the ignorance card was literally taken away there. 

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Oh, I meant me and AAA's exchange right now. Oh well. 🤷‍♂️

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13 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Oh, I meant me and AAA's exchange right now. Oh well. 🤷‍♂️

Hey, you are just the key to enlightenment round these parts, aren’t ya? 
 

 

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25 minutes ago, Koya said:

And we thank you for that exchange - in the end it’s served a number of positive ends. Plus, It takes a strong person to admit that perhaps our language is antiquated or that we were wrong in a stance we took.
 

More importantly, perhaps the conversation helped educate others about a term for which,  a number of people don’t recognize the pain it inflicts and the slur it represents. At least those with enough heart to listen.

As I noted before, this is not about offending the general member of the board - and while some stubbornly hold onto the lie that this is some liberal issue (it’s not, it’s about being a decent human being who respects others and at the least, doesn’t want to harm nor degrade others), the fact is a whole bunch of non liberals seem to fall on the right side of this discussion - on these boards and otherwise. The weak cop out of blaming the “libs only” tactic merely demonstrates a lack of ability to meaningfully counter the valid commentary about those who stubbornly still hold onto forwarding hateful and hurtful language. 

For me, when it was pointed out that a posters child is trans, and some choose to STILL hold onto their stance that no one “told” them the word is a slur, well, it was saddening and disheartening. At that - and therefore this - point, it’s hate for hate reason, it’s lack of caring for the lack of a heart, it’s pain is the purpose - and you can’t blame the lack of a PC playbook or moderation. At the point when a parent of a trans child in THIS community confirms how ugly and wrong that word is, there is no longer any excuse.  Use the word, but accept what such a stance says about you, your humanity or lack there of. Because the ignorance card was literally taken away there. 

Lots of people have kids with special circumstances. Lots of people have special circumstances of their own. I get your point that rock didn't necessarily back off his original statement. For that he made amends. That's the best you can hope for in a constantly changing world.

Can we apply the same set if rules across the board? Nearly every day there are posts that could be offensive to a subset of the population. Who decides what's over the line? What is the benchmark for being offended?

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16 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Lots of people have kids with special circumstances. Lots of people have special circumstances of their own. I get your point that rock didn't necessarily back off his original statement. For that he made amends. That's the best you can hope for in a constantly changing world.

Can we apply the same set if rules across the board? Nearly every day there are posts that could be offensive to a subset of the population. Who decides what's over the line? What is the benchmark for being offended?

I have applauded rock, he was totally stand up here. Went above and beyond and that’s appreciated. 
 

 My point is when it is pointed out that something is legitimately a slur, especially by someone who represents the group in question , let’s act accordingly and have some decency and respect.

 

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8 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

....so this is where we're at now?

By this, do you mean that when we learn something is legitimately offensive to a group of people in terms of being a derogatory slur, we respectfully try not to use that term?

Id hope so.  But, apparently not. I hold out hope.

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6 minutes ago, Koya said:

I have applauded rock, he was totally stand up here. Went above and beyond and that’s appreciated. 
 

 My point is when it is pointed out that something is legitimately a slur, especially by someone who represents the group in question , let’s act accordingly and have some decency and respect.

 

You didn't really answer my question. Plenty of people use words to hurt others on this board every day. You've suggested that we shouldn't use slurs (which I agree). But how does one know when something has become a slur? I checked Merriam-Webster and the definition seems inconclusive. Especially when you compare it to other known slurs.

Does the individual get to decide, or the parent of the individual, or society as a whole? It seems to me it's the individual. And if so, then there are a lot of things that should be defended as vehemently as others. 

But that's not the case.

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Just now, KCitons said:

You didn't really answer my question. Plenty of people use words to hurt others on this board every day. You've suggested that we shouldn't use slurs (which I agree). But how does one know when something has become a slur? I checked Merriam-Webster and the definition seems inconclusive. Especially when you compare it to other known slurs.

Does the individual get to decide, or the parent of the individual, or society as a whole? It seems to me it's the individual. And if so, then there are a lot of things that should be defended as vehemently as others. 

But that's not the case.

I thought I’d answered, apologies.

The fact that the term “tranny” is widely considered a slur and is legitimately found to be hurtful by a large number of folks who are trans (and their friends, family, people in general) was pointed out by a number of people in the thread.  A poster who’s child is trans confirmed this... yet, some found it irresistible to still use the term, make jokes using it, push back about not “being allowed” to use the term.

So I ask you, if you find out that a term you use is hurtful, especially to people “in the room” (in the thread), do you push back and keep using it, or respectfully not do so. Do you need to confirm the hateful origins or rant about what is PC, or just try to learn and act respectfully in that medium? 

Anyway, we are cutting close to Ravens game and we are now at the par to pregame.

Hope everyone enjoys their Sunday. Football, family, and friends. 

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

If you're talking about the f-bomb, yes, I am guilty of that too as a young man. In the apology thread I simply said at one point that we can only control now and can't erase the past, only learn from it. 

The term I used is indeed offensive to some, but I thought the origins and reclamation of the word rendered it okay. Origins and reclamations do not suffice for a lot of folk. Ergo, given that I don't want to insult people or slur them, I won't use it on this board and am almost totally likely not to ever IRL again, either. 

We have a young, 80lb, hot, Asian chick at work that uses the f-bomb fairly regularly. At first it was suprising, now it's awesome. 

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10 hours ago, Koya said:

I thought I’d answered, apologies.

The fact that the term “tranny” is widely considered a slur and is legitimately found to be hurtful by a large number of folks who are trans (and their friends, family, people in general) was pointed out by a number of people in the thread.  A poster who’s child is trans confirmed this... yet, some found it irresistible to still use the term, make jokes using it, push back about not “being allowed” to use the term.

So I ask you, if you find out that a term you use is hurtful, especially to people “in the room” (in the thread), do you push back and keep using it, or respectfully not do so. Do you need to confirm the hateful origins or rant about what is PC, or just try to learn and act respectfully in that medium? 

Anyway, we are cutting close to Ravens game and we are now at the par to pregame.

Hope everyone enjoys their Sunday. Football, family, and friends. 

The bolded is where the problem lies. Many didn't even know it was considered a slur. Also, "large number of folks who are trans" is how many? From what I could find, it's less than 1%. I'm not discrediting their feelings, but you're taking poetic license on their behalf.

If its widely known, wouldn't the online dictionaries treat it the same as other slurs?

Here are two examples. The first is obviously defined as a negative connotation.

Quote

 

offensive; see usage paragraph below —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a black person

offensive; see usage paragraph below —used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a member of any dark-skinned race

now often offensive; see usage paragraph below : a member of a class or group of people who are systematically subjected to discrimination and unfair treatment

 

And the other

Quote

:TRANSMISSION sense 3

or less commonly trannie slang, sometimes disparaging

a: a transgender person

b: TRANSVESTITE

Defines it as slang, not as a negative connotation.

I understand that things change all the time. What I dont understand is how a person is expected to stay in front of the changes to prevent anyone from being offended. The average person has no chance of keeping up with every political and social issue going on today. I guess I should be offended that people think I could. Perhaps that's the correct approach.

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21 hours ago, KCitons said:

The bolded is where the problem lies. Many didn't even know it was considered a slur. Also, "large number of folks who are trans" is how many? From what I could find, it's less than 1%. I'm not discrediting their feelings, but you're taking poetic license on their behalf.

If its widely known, wouldn't the online dictionaries treat it the same as other slurs?

Here are two examples. The first is obviously defined as a negative connotation.

And the other

Defines it as slang, not as a negative connotation.

I understand that things change all the time. What I dont understand is how a person is expected to stay in front of the changes to prevent anyone from being offended. The average person has no chance of keeping up with every political and social issue going on today. I guess I should be offended that people think I could. Perhaps that's the correct approach.

KC - Really respect your take, but I'm a bit frustrated as we seem to be talking past each other.

Hopefully I can be more clear:

I don't expect anyone to be 100% on top of what may or may not be a slur, offensive, derogatory. And I do recognize that there is no one "formal" council that determines which words fall into that category, so there will always be some level of subjectivity.  That said...

* When it is pointed out to you that a term may be (or in some people's opinion, already "is") derogatory and a slur, is the best course of action to double down on your contention that it's a fine word to use... even in the face of multiple people telling you "look, we arent mad that you used the term if you didn't know it was a slur, but we are telling you it is a slur, now"? Wouldn't common decency say you'd refrain from using that term, EVEN if you didn't really know if it is a slur. Again, why would you just push back and go into a "don't be so PC" tirade, when you could just use a different word.  Not to mention listen to the multiple voices that are trying to inform you that the term you used is now widely considered / at least considered by many a slur?

* FINALLY... When we are talking about a certain population (in this case trans people), and a PARENT of someone who is a part of that group tells you the term is offensive, it's a slur, within the context that purposefully using such a term shows not only disrespect, but is part of a larger chorus of hate and discrimination that ends up doing real harm and hurt to innocent people - at THAT point is is not enough to say "ok, at least here on this forum, in front of the many people telling me it's a slur, and a parent of someone affected by the slur, I won't use that term" 

The fact that some people want to use a term (one that has been pointed out as harmful and hurtful to at least a good number of people) moreso than they care about not harming and hurting others is painful to watch.  We should be better, and this isn't an exactly high bar to have set.  How selfish is that, to suggest I want to use a term that we know others' consider a slur, because... why? I really don't get it.

 

TL;DR - We don't need a list.  We need common decency around others; when numerous people point out that a term is, at the very least, offensive and hurtful to some let's be good enough people to not purposefully use that very term.The major issue here is not that someone uses a term and is then corrected or told it's not perhaps the best term to use. The issue is many people tried to point out its an offensive slur, including a parent of someone in the trans community, but some refused to give any quarter, insisted on using that word, made jokes using that term.  I merely ask, why?

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On 10/13/2019 at 9:36 AM, KCitons said:

You didn't really answer my question. Plenty of people use words to hurt others on this board every day. You've suggested that we shouldn't use slurs (which I agree). But how does one know when something has become a slur? I checked Merriam-Webster and the definition seems inconclusive. Especially when you compare it to other known slurs.

Does the individual get to decide, or the parent of the individual, or society as a whole? It seems to me it's the individual. And if so, then there are a lot of things that should be defended as vehemently as others. 

But that's not the case.

One of the things I like about this board is that we kind of know each other.  

If someone you know in real life says to you “that’s a slur” or “that’s really offensive to me” or “to Jim here” or “to Jim’s kid” what’s your reaction? Mine is to treat it as an important disclosure:

Society as a whole decides these things.  And that’s not an easy or specific standard, but it is the standard. 

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22 hours ago, KCitons said:

The bolded is where the problem lies. Many didn't even know it was considered a slur. Also, "large number of folks who are trans" is how many? From what I could find, it's less than 1%. I'm not discrediting their feelings, but you're taking poetic license on their behalf.

If its widely known, wouldn't the online dictionaries treat it the same as other slurs?

Here are two examples. The first is obviously defined as a negative connotation.

And the other

Defines it as slang, not as a negative connotation.

I understand that things change all the time. What I dont understand is how a person is expected to stay in front of the changes to prevent anyone from being offended. The average person has no chance of keeping up with every political and social issue going on today. I guess I should be offended that people think I could. Perhaps that's the correct approach.

What does “disparaging” mean to you?

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28 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

What does “disparaging” mean to you?

They aren't being defined the same way. You have to be able to see that?

I was giving people the opportunity to respond to my comments before I made my next point. 

Last week @Tom Skerritt made a comment that a poster was acting like a woman. It was disparaging to women and he was called out by me. His response was for me to lighten up. Now, I know very few transgender people, but I know a lot of women. As I'm sure every poster here does. He doubled down on his comments. And was eventually given a timeout. 

There wasn't nearly the outrage. I wonder if it had more to do with the poster, and who the comments were directed towards, more so than being politically correct.

TL:DR  The mob mentality here doesn't feed on it's own. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 7:59 AM, sho nuff said:

Yes...because Rock got called out, mostly by those whoa re anti Trump...a few went and searched and posted all the people critical of Trump who have used the word.  Even if they weren’t involved  in the discussion.

And I get called board cop :lmao:

Because you are the board cop. Sheriff 

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3 minutes ago, KCitons said:

They aren't being defined the same way. You have to be able to see that?

I was giving people the opportunity to respond to my comments before I made my next point. 

Last week @Tom Skerritt made a comment that a poster was acting like a woman. It was disparaging to women and he was called out by me. His response was for me to lighten up. Now, I know very few transgender people, but I know a lot of women. As I'm sure every poster here does. He doubled down on his comments. And was eventually given a timeout. 

There wasn't nearly the outrage. I wonder if it had more to do with the poster, and who the comments were directed towards, more so than being politically correct.

TL:DR  The mob mentality here doesn't feed on it's own. 

It had to do with the fact that he was given a timeout and others weren’t defending him and he wasn’t saying it wasn’t an insult.  
 

There was a moderator in the thread who stopped him and a woman who backed you up. 

Edited by Henry Ford

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48 minutes ago, Koya said:

 

TL;DR - We don't need a list.  We need common decency around others; when numerous people point out that a term is, at the very least, offensive and hurtful to some let's be good enough people to not purposefully use that very term.The major issue here is not that someone uses a term and is then corrected or told it's not perhaps the best term to use. The issue is many people tried to point out its an offensive slur, including a parent of someone in the trans community, but some refused to give any quarter, insisted on using that word, made jokes using that term.  I merely ask, why?

There are posters that make a comment and then excuse it as being humor. I agree, it's not an excuse.

I have one person on ignore for s comment about diabetes. As a parent of a child that was diagnosed at 17 months old, I didn think it was funny. Although that was his excuse. 

It happens more than you think. It just depends on who it's coming from.

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

It had to do with the fact that he was given a timeout and others weren’t defending him and he wasn’t saying it wasn’t an insult.  
 

There was a moderator in the thread who stopped him and a woman who backed you up. 

There was one person defending Rock. 

He admits to insulting every woman. Doesn't that deserve your outrage? Rocks thread had multiple posters calling him out. It was not an apples to apples reaction. Why do you think that is?

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