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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter spider321
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Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Well, if there's one thing that can unite the forum.....
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/772242-2020-the-race-for-the-white-house-the-good-place/?do=findComment&comment=22328928
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/772242-2020-the-race-for-the-white-house-the-good-place/?do=findComment&comment=22328928
eurotrashman
Footballguy
The majority of anti-trump sentiment is spread evenly among dems/libs/progressives, independents, libertarians, non-political folk and traditional conservatives. So the majority isn't made up of any one group.
timschochet
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
You didn't ask me (obviously) but its pretty clear that:
1) There have been lots of polls done on this site asking people if they lean liberal and conservative over the years. And they have been pretty evenly split between left and right leaning.
2) This site is overwhelmingly anti-Trump.
Those two things together seem to indicate that (at least on this site) there is a wide spectrum of anti-Trump support.
eurotrashman
Footballguy
First off, it's anecdotal...but there is a pattern. It's clear that there is a lack of support or even anti-Trump sentiment from several posters here which are well known (Ivan K, YankeeFan, Redmond) for being conservative and absolutely not liberal/democrat or progressive. And then I can list off another 20 or 30 posters who still fall into that same category and some recent detractors in just this year (triman, Kal-El, godsbrother, mr. roboto, steve tasker, bagger)...I could go on and on. Obviously the traditional liberal posters are going to already be anti-trump, but much of the posting in opposition of Trump is now spread out evenly across the different segments which I listed above.
It's pretty obvious to me, but again, purely anecdotal. It would be interesting to find out exactly how many posters here are anti-Trump, but don't identify with liberal/progressive ideology.
Fixed. The subset who post here is a far different political makeup than the FFA or the Shark Pool.
The Commish
Footballguy
Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know you're right?jon_mx said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm not sure why it's important to any discussion how conservative or liberal the other forums are.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Maurile did those surveys months back in the forum here, the FFA and the SP. Jon is right according to those.
The Commish
Footballguy
Thanks....must have missed them. Definitely in the SP....I only go in the Panthers thread in that mass of nonsense.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Looking again, even the SP was anti-Trump on the 1 to 5 scale:
Donald Trump: 2.18 / 5 (higher = more favorable)
sho nuff
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
41/60 = 1 in the SP
121/153 = 1 in the PSF
32/40 = 1 in the FFA
68%, 79%, 80%
Given the claim was "this site is overwhelmingly anti-trump", the FFA and PSF are damn near the same....the SP not so much, which is sort of what I'd expect. I would be singling out the SP as the outlier, not one of the other two as jon did
GoBirds
Footballguy
Wow hopefully that was just a very poor turnout for numbers in those forums or things really have gotten slim around here.41/60 = 1 in the SP
121/153 = 1 in the PSF
32/40 = 1 in the FFA
68%, 79%, 80%
Given the claim was "this site is overwhelmingly anti-trump", the FFA and PSF are damn near the same....the SP not so much, which is sort of what I'd expect. I would be singling out the SP as the outlier, not one of the other two as jon did
PSF numbers are a clear answer to the thread title.
Except it doesn't answer the thread title at all, which is what everyone else is trying to say. Anti-Trump does not mean liberal, so the liberal echo chamber title isn't addressed at all.
You can like Trump's policies all you want, but how people can idolize and defend Trump the person and his behavior is a completely different question.
KCitons
Footballguy
These were also done in March. My answers would be different today vs what they were then.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Catholics should be voting Republican if they care about human life - abortion. I am Catholic and it a major issue for me.
I get that. But how does it lead you to defend Trump against all accusations? You'd get Pence if he was removed, who seems actually religious.
KCitons
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't know that it does. Anti trump doesn't mean liberal. I was replying to the conversation that was going on not necessarily to the thread as a whole.
And it stands to reason that things would be bleak for pro trump guys. Many of us can't get by his moral character problems to even get to policy analysis. My primary problem has always been his moral compass and his blatant disregard for anyone not him or his base. With every other president i have ever witnessed you could see in their policy at least a glimpse of them trying to serve the country. I might not have liked the approach but i could see them trying. Not this guy.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
That is just plain wrong. Trump has already done a lot for this country (search, not repeating) and is by far the best President of my lifetime.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
Not clear on the bolded? Because of 60 votes in the SP or the 40 in FFA? I would place more value on info like this from the real world.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-reelection-odds-better-than-even-may-top-2016-despite-impeachment-eurasia-212100840.html
As mentioned above I’m not big on looking to politicians for my moral compass as I don’t think highly of any of them and hold myself to a much higher standard. Just me though and understand others may be different.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'll take a list of policies he's passed into law that have been designed to address most of America and not simply him or his base. I'll be glad to be proven wrong
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
im Catholic and respect human life. But realize the need for abortion and that abortion rates go down where abortion is made legal.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna858476
Catholics are also against the death penalty...which doesn’t match the Republican stance...so anyone saying who Catholics should vote for should probably not tell others such things.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna858476
Catholics are also against the death penalty...which doesn’t match the Republican stance...so anyone saying who Catholics should vote for should probably not tell others such things.
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GoBirds
Footballguy
This should make it easier to understand. Quite impressive.I'll take a list of policies he's passed into law that have been designed to address most of America and not simply him or his base. I'll be glad to be proven wrong
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/trumps-middle-class-economic-progress-11569786435
Results matter.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Shall we go over the number of people killed by death penalty versus people killed by abortion? Nevermind the fact you are killing innocent babies and not violent criminals. My goodness the hoops you have to go through to justify supporting Democrats is amazing. Flat out wrong.
The Commish
Footballguy
Right...and many of us come from the opposite direction. Don't even talk to us about policy until you can demonstrate that you measure up morally. It's definitely true that going this route leaves slim pickins in terms of voting options, no doubt.
To the bold I said before, I am referring to the slumping "base" numbers that have been happening from the very beginning of his presidency. For whatever reason, people don't talk about it much but at the start, he was in the 36-38% range now he's down in the 33-35% range. It's pretty clear that "strong approval" went down and has stayed that way. Right or wrong, peoples' minds are made up about this guy and I'm not sure those minds change depending on who is running against him.
The Commish
Footballguy
Sorry....I am not a subscriber, but also not sure what you want me to glean from an opinion piece. Is it too long to post here? I'll give it a look. The stock market is moving up and up that is not in dispute, but that's one aspect of the formula and doesn't apply to over half the country as they don't have money to be in the stock market. The bottom 80% own like 5-7% of the stock wealth. And if consumer confidence continues it's decline (though it's still pretty strong at the moment, it's been in decline for a few months now) the market is going to be removed as a talking point as well. That remains to be seen. Incomes have been rising slowly over his tenure...the problem of course is cost of living is rising faster, so I'm not exactly sure what the buys either.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Middle class is seeing income gains it hasn’t seen in decades. I know you are the claim to be Independent guy that ignores any good news and bashed Trump in here 24/7 but these are the type of results that matter to many Americans. 6.8% increase under Trump, 1.7% increase over Obama full term, .7% increase under Bush full term.
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The Commish
Footballguy
nah...you can see the silver linings thread for the truth on the bold
And in the post you quoted, I said income was increasing finally. That % is one I haven't seen in the economic reviews though. I'd like to understand how he got there. I know that from 17-18 average median income was up .8% and 2 or three years prior to that it was increasing between 1.8 and 3%. I haven't seen any economic analysis from 2018 to 2019 though. When I see numbers like what you posted without seeing the context, I am left wondering if this wasn't a "study" of the 10-15 largest population centers in the country or something like that. So if you can link it here, I'd appreciate it
MAC_32
Footballguy
I missed these. I'm politically right of center but am so disgusted with republicans at the federal level I cannot reconcile anything about the party anymore. I suspect I'm not alone.
I'm praying for rain, I'm praying for tidal waves, I want to see the ground give way, I want to watch it all go down.
GoBirds
Footballguy
If you can’t open WSJ I would search from a different browser, had no problem on my phone. This appears to be similar, not sure if exact same.nah...you can see the silver linings thread for the truth on the bold
And in the post you quoted, I said income was increasing finally. That % is one I haven't seen in the economic reviews though. I'd like to understand how he got there. I know that from 17-18 average median income was up .8% and 2 or three years prior to that it was increasing between 1.8 and 3%. I haven't seen any economic analysis from 2018 to 2019 though. When I see numbers like what you posted without seeing the context, I am left wondering if this wasn't a "study" of the 10-15 largest population centers in the country or something like that. So if you can link it here, I'd appreciate it
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/opinion/steve-moore-democrats-are-wrong-middle-class-incomes-surging-thanks-to-trump-policies.amp
The Commish
Footballguy
Don't know what the deal is then
It won't let me in...only have IE and Chrome....incognito isn't working either. The link above, despite my policy of not using fox news opinion pieces for anything of meaning says on a monthly basis the average paycheck has gone up $161 pre tax. That's in comparison to $4 a month and $11 a month for Bush and Obama. Keeping that in mind and also remembering that I was asking about policy that has been designed to benefit most of America rather than him and his base, is this what you consider proof or evidence of doing so? While it's true that wages are increasing faster now, it's also true that the cost of living is increasing and at a greater clip. Take everything in this article at face value and assume it's correct (huge assumption given the source)...at best we are at "well, I'm not losing as much as I was losing under the other guy, but I'm still losing". I'd really like to see the WSJ opinion piece....I can't find a single reputable economist saying the things in this fox news article.
GoBirds
Footballguy
1 - Joe voter cares more about highest ever income for Middle Class than any policies you are looking for is my position.Don't know what the deal is then
I'd really like to see the WSJ opinion piece....I can't find a single reputable economist saying the things in this fox news article.
2 - Article said it adjusted for inflation?
3 - It's the same article, but I saw this coming a mile away.
Have a good one.
The Commish
Footballguy
1. I can't speak for the entire country. I don't know one way or the other. It's puzzling to me that you'd jump into a conversation with this opinion knowing it doesn't have anything to do with what i am asking. Probably more productive just to make a stand alone comment.
2. Sure. I was talking about the cost ofc living. Inflation is but one component of that
3. Don't know what this means. I read the article you provided and repeatedwhat it said while adding practical perspective as someone in that group. Do you believe people are really getting a significant benefit from an extra 160 a month pretax?
timschochet
Footballguy
@GoBirds, putting aside the validity of your arguments (personally I think increasing the debt in order to gain short term prosperity means long term disaster, and I sort of thought conservatives used to feel this way as well) doesn’t the fact that you are making them, and getting likes and approval from other Trump supporters, refute the central question raised by this thread?
GoBirds
Footballguy
1. Typical dodge of any positive, sorry I'll let you stick to policy and avoid things that impact everyday life.
2. Uh, ok. Let us know when you break down all components......I'll stick with the non partisan company providing the info.
3. More attempts to dodge any positivity to push the negative agenda. It's clear they are getting SIGNIFICANTLY more benefit than they have in decades. Downplay it however you need to.
My apologies it wasn't a standalone comment for you but thanks for the great example of why any non 24/7 Trump complainer doesn't engage this type of agenda. I'll move on as this is not productive, have a great Thanksgiving.
GoBirds
Footballguy
No I don't think so at all Tim, but do hope you enjoy a nice Thanksgiving. Enjoy your time with family.
The Commish
Footballguy
At this point, I don't know what point you are attempting to make. The above is a response to me asking someone else for policies he's put in place that help more than just his base or him. Then there's this at the end after I regurgitated what the article said. If its "quite impressive" to you that he's managed to get $160 pretax dollars a month back into the pockets of the middle class while putting millions back in the pockets of billionaires and companies then so be it. Personally, I think we can do better. It helps to hold our politicians to a standard higher than "each other" IMO. So when I read that Trump is "better" than Bush because under Bush it was $4 a month and now it's $160 a month I struggle to see value because IMO, the comparison isn't where the bar should be. IMO, it should be at quantities that are impacting life in a meaningful way. If you want to set the bar where you have, good on you but disagreeing with that bar isn't attempts to dodge anything. It's a disagreement in standard. To be clear though, I acknowledged in my very first post of this discussion that wages were going up....that's the opposite of "dodging" anything...at least as I understand the term's definition. It's certainly not nothing.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Again let's move on, you will continually make excuses like the bolded although the best benchmark is his predecessor Obama who increased Middle Class income......$11. If you think we can do better than the current increase you must have been disgusted back then?But "Independent's" like yourself seem to continue the gymnastics to turn going from an improvement of $11 over 8 years to the current $160 over just 3 years to a negative somehow because we just can't admit anything positive cause Trump. But that average of a little over $1 per year under Obama was awesome!
Sorry but it's a great example of how the majority does echo the same negativity no matter what. When the regulars wonder why no non Liberals will "engage" all day in here like they feel should be some requirement because they do, this is a perfect example of why. Completely unproductive with those so dug in to ever admit a positive and have to get the last word with some kind of lame dig.
So again, lets move on and I do hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.
Koya
Footballguy
You complain how this is a liberal echo chamber (it may to a degree be that in relation to not supporting / against Trump and his policies, but we've seen many non liberals share in those views), but its hard to take seriously a comment like this.
I mean this in no way as an attack, but how can anyone suggest Trump has not been an adulterer and expect others to believe the person putting that forth is being intellectually honest? It's not (or shouldn't be) up for debate, just as it shouldn't be up for debate when he clearly mocked a disabled person. And to use the 'real life' measure, what I'd say to a friend or colleague who suggested either of those wouldn't fly here anymore, because I'd just call them out not in a mean spirited manner, but one that would be let's just say incredulous at their willingness to either fool themselves into thinking that and the audacity to think others would just cast aside proven realities.
As for this community, I feel it unfair to cast a net upon those who call out comments that so blatantly stretch the truth as a liberal echo chamber. On that level its more a clear and indisputable facts chamber.
The Commish
Footballguy
You should really read my thoughts on Obama...seems you haven't a clue. You've projected a lot of nonsense onto me because you think you have an idea of my thoughts. You don't. Our wage growth has been horrendous for the better part of two decades. That it's been a slight uptick is fine, but not acceptable to me. My opinions aren't an "excuse"....they are my opinions. My standards aren't an "excuse" they are a standard. I get that you want to put me in some sort of "liberal" box so I can be compartmentalized away with everyone else, but that's not reality.
Our approaches are significantly different. That much is clear. Because I don't subscribe to "lesser of two evils" and want to hold politicians to a standard other than each other isn't an "excuse"...it's a different point of view and/or approach of looking at things. Does it ever strike you as odd that your bar for comparison on "your guy" is a comparison, in your view, of one of the worst Presidents ever? Same goes for those who compare Obama to Bush or Bush to Clinton. IMO, it's nonsensical by any measure of logic. Why would either side use the person they think is the worst ever as a measuring stick for their guy outside of political reasons?
And for the fifth time, I have acknowledged that wages are going up. I'm just not gushing over the increase as if it's some sort of huge accomplishment, so you can stop with the bold nonsense as I have done exactly the opposite, just not to your satisfaction. I have plenty of my own faults, I don't need you projecting nonsense onto me in addition. I've posted in the silver linings thread the things I feel he should have credit for....you should check it out.
I do appreciate the "hey, let's move on as I completely misrepresent your thoughts because we won't agree" shtick...it's certainly not lost on me.
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