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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (3 Viewers)

I do find the "membership" thing fascinating. It feels to me like we put way too much importance on declaring someone a Republican or Democrat. It's an artificial construct that sounds official but for the most part really isn't. 

As a young person I went from voting for George Bush in one election to Bill Cinton in the next. Couldn't have been easier and less dramatic. 

When an article talks about people fleeing a party in droves, I'm not sure exactly what they mean. Are they saying tons of people who voted for Trump last time wouldn't vote for the Republican nominee this time? Or next time? 

We as a society love to label things (and people) as it makes things more convenient. I wonder how useful that really is. 

 
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Thanks.

What kind of immigration policy do you think they should enact?

Or maybe more to the point, what does dropping the "anti-Hispanic immigration stance" mean?
Well I’m probably the wrong guy to ask because I’m not exactly neutral on this subject. 

But as I see it they should offer a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who have been law abiding once they’ve gotten here. They should be more encouraging about allowing legal avenues for Hispanic immigration in general, and they should absolutely drop all talk of a wall on our southern border. We can certainly regulate the border better but no wall. 

 
Thanks.

What kind of immigration policy do you think they should enact?

Or maybe more to the point, what does dropping the "anti-Hispanic immigration stance" mean?
I know this isn't directed towards me but what I, and I think the vast majority of people thar support immigration want, is to spend a fraction of the amount of money that this wall will cost on immigration centers that can process anyone that wants to come here in a quick fashion. That includes background checks.  There should also be steep penalties for companies that hire illegals up to jail time for executives. There isn't any good reason, using immigrants to stoke fear for political gain isn't a good reason, why this can't be done.  I also think support for open boarders is almost nil.  I would think big business would support this too as there are tens of millions of entry level jobs that need to be filled. 

 
Except he didn’t. 

The only reason so many Republicans support Trump In such high percentages is because so many other former Republicans have left the party: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/politics/2019/02/gop-shrinks-as-young-and-nevertrumpers-walk-away-increasing-donald-trumps-power-in-the-party.html%3foutputType=amp

Sorry but your party is dying, mainly due to Trump and the unhealthy obsession with undocumented immigrants. 
You can tell yourself this as much as you want, it doesn't make it true.  The reason we are seeing nascent political movements predicated on a revolt against establishment politics- Trumps, Bolsonaros, Brexits, Kelenskys- is that people are fed up with the status quo.  Sometimes it manifests itself as nativist rightwing movements, sometimes it manifests itself as the flipside- populist/leftist movements like we see with Sanders, Corbyn, AOC/Omar etc.  But it's happening whether we like it or not.  

In January of this year, a Gallup poll asked respondents: “In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat or an independent?”

Thirty-four percent said Democrat, 25 percent said Republican -- and a whopping 39 percent chose independent. That’s a 5 percent drop for the GOP from four years ago.
I'm not sure where this writer is getting the idea these Gallup polls are suggesting a significant drop in Republican party IDs.  If you take the entire aggregate percentage of respondents who identified as Republican for every survey in a given year, it was 27.588% in 2016, and 27.5% in 2019.  In the first week of November of 2016 vs. November of 2019, it went from 27% to 30% for a +3% gain.  You can cherrypick those poll results a number of different ways and come away with very different conclusions.  

So, yes, Trump has a strong hold on Republicans, but the party’s adherents are falling away at a significant rate. Democrats have held relatively steady over the past couple of years -- while more and more Americans are calling themselves independent.

And independents right now are more likely to align with Democrats. Asked by Gallup if they “lean” Republican or Democratic, 52 percent of independents said they lean to the Dems and 36 percent said they lean toward the GOP. Four years ago, 44 percent of independents leaned Republican, 43 percent Democratic.
Just now realizing that the piece was published in February.  The numbers were a lot more lopsided in favor of Dems back then.  That was before the Mueller flop, Trump's favorability has gone up significantly since then.  I bet his approval ratings will tick up slightly before the impeachment process is over with too.  But it's pretty even for the most part now.  R/I/D party affiliation is 30/38/31 most recently, and R/D 'independent leaners' is 45/47.  

 
The truth is Trump is a distillation of the Republican Party that most people would have never dreamt possible.  The nativism, the anti-establishment veneer, the unfiltered contempt for political/media elites, the backwoods populism, the Reagan/Nixon revival, it's all there.  Watch a Trump rally on Twitch, tell me those people aren't ready to go to war for this guy in 2020.  That's why he's popular with Republicans.  

The pundits are desperate to convince themselves Trump is a one-off thing, that we can just put all this back in the box.  That decent, civil Republicans will do the right thing and pick the anointed Democrat. They'll book and publish anybody willing to tell people that what they really want, is a milquetoast centrist again.  They're even listening to David "Axis of Evil" Frum and an array of corporate media hacks that got 2016 absolutely dead wrong again.  But it's not gonna happen Tim.  It's not gonna happen.  

 
The truth is Trump is a distillation of the Republican Party that most people would have never dreamt possible.  The nativism, the anti-establishment veneer, the unfiltered contempt for political/media elites, the backwoods populism, the Reagan/Nixon revival, it's all there.  Watch a Trump rally on Twitch, tell me those people aren't ready to go to war for this guy in 2020.  That's why he's popular with Republicans.  

The pundits are desperate to convince themselves Trump is a one-off thing, that we can just put all this back in the box.  That decent, civil Republicans will do the right thing and pick the anointed Democrat. They'll book and publish anybody willing to tell people that what they really want, is a milquetoast centrist again.  They're even listening to David "Axis of Evil" Frum and an array of corporate media hacks that got 2016 absolutely dead wrong again.  But it's not gonna happen Tim.  It's not gonna happen.  
Yes it’s going to happen. 

Populist waves come and go. They die off as quickly as they arrive. This one will too. 

 
Well I’m probably the wrong guy to ask because I’m not exactly neutral on this subject. 

But as I see it they should offer a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who have been law abiding once they’ve gotten here. They should be more encouraging about allowing legal avenues for Hispanic immigration in general, and they should absolutely drop all talk of a wall on our southern border. We can certainly regulate the border better but no wall. 
You're the one that said the entire Republican party is doomed unless they adopt an "anti-Hispanic immigration stance". So you're the person to ask exactly what that means. 

 
You're the one that said the entire Republican party is doomed unless they adopt an "anti-Hispanic immigration stance". So you're the person to ask exactly what that means. 
I think the Republican Party needs to get rid of the perception that they are opposed to Hispanic immigration. How they go about doing that is a question for discussion and debate. I certainly have my own ideas but those ideas are shaped by my strong views on the subject and not necessarily by what would help or hurt the Republican Party. That’s what I meant when I wrote I might not be the best person to ask. 

Also there is a difference between what it means to have an anti-Hispanic immigrant stance, and what should be done about it. Hopefully i already answered the first part. But let me also add that I believe that the majority of Hispanics who live in this country tend to be conservative in nature, both fiscally and socially- and IMO they would be a perfect fit for the Republican Party, if it wasn’t for this one issue of immigrationz 

 
You're the one that said the entire Republican party is doomed unless they adopt an "anti-Hispanic immigration stance". So you're the person to ask exactly what that means. 
I think it’s more accurate to say that the Republican Party that a lot of my elderly relatives loved is doomed.  They’ve already lost the battle on things like abortion and  homosexual marriage.  They seem to be on the unpopular side of things like climate change and gun control.  Church attendance is down - way down for ultra-conservative churches that haven’t changed with the times.

On immigration - I think it will be interesting to see how Hispanic voters break this time around - it seems undeniable to me that generally speaking some of them feel slighted by Trump and his policies but not sure if that will outweigh their general conservative tendency.   

 
I don't understand the confusion about the immigration issue. Immigrants, who have been increasingly non-white over the past century or so, perceive the American left as more welcoming and less threatening to them in general than they do the American right. 

And the oncoming demographic changes make that a death sentence for the current GOP, which already trails in Hispanic favorability by something like 30 points. What makes this whole situation really bad business for Republicans is that, as Tim correctly points out, Hispanics could be a culturally competitive demographic for them in the future. But they can't afford to wait until Hispanic -Americans evolve into Republicans on their own and still hope to win presidential elections.

2020 is their last chance to win until they change the spirit and intent of their immigration policies, imo.

 
I think the Republican Party needs to get rid of the perception that they are opposed to Hispanic immigration. How they go about doing that is a question for discussion and debate. I certainly have my own ideas but those ideas are shaped by my strong views on the subject and not necessarily by what would help or hurt the Republican Party. That’s what I meant when I wrote I might not be the best person to ask. 

Also there is a difference between what it means to have an anti-Hispanic immigrant stance, and what should be done about it. Hopefully i already answered the first part. But let me also add that I believe that the majority of Hispanics who live in this country tend to be conservative in nature, both fiscally and socially- and IMO they would be a perfect fit for the Republican Party, if it wasn’t for this one issue of immigrationz 
Republicans haven't realized it yet but they have lost a generation of Hispanic voters. Roughly half of the Latinos in this country are under the age of 30 and are social media savvy. They are keenly aware of Trump's stance about Hispanic immigration from the time he came down the escalator, calling Mexican immigrants rapist and criminals, referring to them as "bad hombres" not to mention the cruel and inhumane separation of children (many of them toddlers) from their parents, plus the many deportations, including some who have served in the military.

Hispanics won't forget in the 2020 election what Trump and his administration has done towards them, which may not be enough to swing the election, but beyond that, the long term picture of Hispanic support looks grim for Repulbicans.

 
Trumps war on Hispanics mirrors Democrats war on white people.  Pretty sure both strategies are losers.  We have two parties which run largely on fear and hate.  

 
Trumps war on Hispanics mirrors Democrats war on white people.  Pretty sure both strategies are losers.  We have two parties which run largely on fear and hate.  
So examples of Trump's "war" on Hispanics have been given.  Can you provide even two examples of the democrats "war" on white people?  And reparations don't count since they're not a position of the majority of candidates nor are they intended to hurt white people.

 
So examples of Trump's "war" on Hispanics have been given.  Can you provide even two examples of the democrats "war" on white people?  And reparations don't count since they're not a position of the majority of candidates nor are they intended to hurt white people.


The War Against White People – Minding The Campus, April 29,2019, Philip Salzman

The Demonizing of White Men – The Daily Signal, Jan 30, 2019,  Walter E. Williams

The Left’s War On White Men Rages On – Daily Caller, May 20, 2018, Stephanie Hamill

The Left's War on White America – American Thinker, Feb 24, 2015, Lloyd Marcus

White men must be stopped: The very future of mankind depends on it – Salon, Dec 22, 2015, Frank Joyce

Tables turned on ‘old white men’ – Boston Hearld, Oct 8, 2018, Larry Elder

The progressive push to alienate white men – Washington Examiner, July 10, 2018 Noemie Emery

REPORT: ILHAN OMAR AND THE LEFT’S WAR ON WHITE MEN – INFOWARS, July 25, 2019

The Left's War against White Males – American Thinker, Jan. 24, 2019, Jeannie DeAngelis

The Liberal Hate for White People Should Cost Them Big at The Ballot Box – PJ Media, Aug 8, 2018, John Hawkins

Why is it Trendy to Hate White People? – Odyssey, Apr 21, 2018, Anita Das

The Left’s Anti-White Racism -  The American Conservative, Dec 22, 2015, Rod Dreher

 
The War Against White People – Minding The Campus, April 29,2019, Philip Salzman

The Demonizing of White Men – The Daily Signal, Jan 30, 2019,  Walter E. Williams

The Left’s War On White Men Rages On – Daily Caller, May 20, 2018, Stephanie Hamill

The Left's War on White America – American Thinker, Feb 24, 2015, Lloyd Marcus

White men must be stopped: The very future of mankind depends on it – Salon, Dec 22, 2015, Frank Joyce

Tables turned on ‘old white men’ – Boston Hearld, Oct 8, 2018, Larry Elder

The progressive push to alienate white men – Washington Examiner, July 10, 2018 Noemie Emery

REPORT: ILHAN OMAR AND THE LEFT’S WAR ON WHITE MEN – INFOWARS, July 25, 2019

The Left's War against White Males – American Thinker, Jan. 24, 2019, Jeannie DeAngelis

The Liberal Hate for White People Should Cost Them Big at The Ballot Box – PJ Media, Aug 8, 2018, John Hawkins

Why is it Trendy to Hate White People? – Odyssey, Apr 21, 2018, Anita Das

The Left’s Anti-White Racism -  The American Conservative, Dec 22, 2015, Rod Dreher
So one one hand we have a bunch of opinion pieces by largely conservative writers and organizations.  Making broad generalizations and using one-off examples like Brett K to extrapolate to the entire country.  

On the other hand we have the president of the US persistently tweeting and demonizing people from different countries.  Very specifically labeling those people or countries.

I am a white guy.  I have felt, and feel, nothing but advantage from being a white guy.  I walk down the street, into stores, in restaurants and get treated with nothing but respect.

How is your experience?  Do you know a single white person who's been personally oppressed or demonized due to their color?

I'll remind you that white men make up 95% of Republican Congressmen.  White men run like 80% of the Fortune 500 companies.  How is that even possible if there's a war on us?

 
Democrats war on white people.  


The Left's War against White Males – American Thinker, Jan. 24, 2019, Jeannie DeAngelis
I’m forced to ask how many of these opinion pieces have you actually read jon? Or are you simply relying on the titles to prove your point? 

I decided to focus on just one, knowing that it would be hard for me to stomach several. The “war against white males” in the title was apparently plotted by Saul Alinsky (who I think was a white male but maybe being a Jew doesn’t count?) briefly mentions Robert E Lee and then focuses on Columbus. Evidentially, suggesting that Columbus’ voyage to the West Indies might not have been so good for the indigenous people there is the new Pearl Harbor against all white men. 

This is the sort of argument I would expect from white supremacists. Are you sure you want to hang your hat on it? 

 
I’m forced to ask how many of these opinion pieces have you actually read jon? Or are you simply relying on the titles to prove your point? 

I decided to focus on just one, knowing that it would be hard for me to stomach several. The “war against white males” in the title was apparently plotted by Saul Alinsky (who I think was a white male but maybe being a Jew doesn’t count?) briefly mentions Robert E Lee and then focuses on Columbus. Evidentially, suggesting that Columbus’ voyage to the West Indies might not have been so good for the indigenous people there is the new Pearl Harbor against all white men. 

This is the sort of argument I would expect from white supremacists. Are you sure you want to hang your hat on it? 
Do white guys really feel their is a war on them?  Despite all the evidence to the contrary?  It's really odd to me as a white guy, is there some other race/gender issue that would give me a leg up in navigating this country/world?  Of course there's not.

 
I’m forced to ask how many of these opinion pieces have you actually read jon? Or are you simply relying on the titles to prove your point? 

I decided to focus on just one, knowing that it would be hard for me to stomach several. The “war against white males” in the title was apparently plotted by Saul Alinsky (who I think was a white male but maybe being a Jew doesn’t count?) briefly mentions Robert E Lee and then focuses on Columbus. Evidentially, suggesting that Columbus’ voyage to the West Indies might not have been so good for the indigenous people there is the new Pearl Harbor against all white men. 

This is the sort of argument I would expect from white supremacists. Are you sure you want to hang your hat on it? 
I skimmed through them.  That was probably the worst of the bunch.  If I was doing an article on the topic, I doubt if I would pull anything out of that particular article.  I included that because I generally see American Thinker articles as decent, but in this case it was not.  These were a fairly quick list of articles on the topic.  The point was it is a topic which many have opinions on, and should not be simply dismissed as 'balderdash;.  

 
So one one hand we have a bunch of opinion pieces by largely conservative writers and organizations.  Making broad generalizations and using one-off examples like Brett K to extrapolate to the entire country.  

On the other hand we have the president of the US persistently tweeting and demonizing people from different countries.  Very specifically labeling those people or countries.

I am a white guy.  I have felt, and feel, nothing but advantage from being a white guy.  I walk down the street, into stores, in restaurants and get treated with nothing but respect.

How is your experience?  Do you know a single white person who's been personally oppressed or demonized due to their color?

I'll remind you that white men make up 95% of Republican Congressmen.  White men run like 80% of the Fortune 500 companies.  How is that even possible if there's a war on us?
Some of the examples I would pull.....

Presidential candidate Barack Obama said of working class, white voters in 2008, “They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

Hillary Clinton castigated half of Donald Trump supporters as “a basket of deplorables” who were “racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic—you name it.”

Sarah Jeong, New York Times Editorial Board:

“####### f***ing white people marking up the internet with their opinions like dogs pissing on fire hydrants.”

It’s “kind of sick how much joy I get out of being cruel to old white men.”

I’m “just imagining being white and waking up every morning with a terrible existential dread about how I have no culture.”

“Are white people genetically predisposed to burn faster in the sun, thus logically only being fit to live underground like groveling bilious goblins?”

 “Have you ever tried to figure out all the things that white people are allowed to do that aren’t cultural appropriation? There’s literally nothing.”

“The world could get by just fine with zero white people.”

Professor George Ciccariello of Drexel University in Philadelphia, “was” in the words of CNN “dreaming not of a white Christmas, but of a white massacre.” What were Professor Ciccariello’s words? “All I Want for Christmas is White Genocide.”

Don Lemon, a CNN anchorman, said, “We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them.”

Steven Clifford, former King Broadcasting CEO, said, “I will be leading a great movement to prohibit straight white males, who I believe supported Donald Trump by about 85 percent, from exercising the franchise [to vote], and I think that will save our democracy.”

Teen Vogue, a magazine targeting teenage girls, wrote, “Not only is white male terrorism as dangerous as Islamic extremism, but our collective safety rests in rooting out the source of their radicalization.”

Actress Gabourey Sidibe, also on “The View,” said: “Older white men are a problem, y’all, for everyone. We’re all at risk.”

 
I skimmed through them.  That was probably the worst of the bunch.  If I was doing an article on the topic, I doubt if I would pull anything out of that particular article.  I included that because I generally see American Thinker articles as decent, but in this case it was not.  These were a fairly quick list of articles on the topic.  The point was it is a topic which many have opinions on, and should not be simply dismissed as 'balderdash;.  
Not that I want you to have to come up with more examples, but I have to say I am curious about these “decent” American Thinker articles you reference; In pretty familiar with that magazine and I honestly can’t recall ever reading one. 

 
Steven Clifford, former King Broadcasting CEO, said, “I will be leading a great movement to prohibit straight white males, who I believe supported Donald Trump by about 85 percent, from exercising the franchise [to vote], and I think that will save our democracy.”
Again I’ll just focus on one of these statements in order to illustrate how serious they all are: do you feel threatened by this statement? Does it make you want to vote Republican because you believe that your right to vote might be taken away by Democrats? 

 
I would agree with Jon that’s there’s definitely a perception by some Republicans that Democrats are at “war” with white people but I think it’s more accurate to say that a lot of Christians feel like Democrats are at war with them.  It just so happens most of them are white.  And while I don’t like using the word war in this context I think it’s a close approximation of what is going on.  A lot of Christians don’t like the social changes that have taken place the last 20-30 years and they tend to blame the Democrats for that.  And then as @MAC_32 pointed out in another thread - it doesn’t help the Democratic cause when that is attributed to something like white nationalism - even if it’s accurate for some people.

 
Do white guys really feel their is a war on them?  Despite all the evidence to the contrary?  It's really odd to me as a white guy, is there some other race/gender issue that would give me a leg up in navigating this country/world?  Of course there's not.
I think that some of them feel threatened by the changing demographics in this country, and also by the “me too” movement. 

This started, not with Donald Trump, but with Rush Limbaugh. He’s been peddling this garbage for 30 years and now it’s accepted by many conservatives as gospel.

 
I would agree with Jon that’s there’s definitely a perception by some Republicans that Democrats are at “war” with white people but I think it’s more accurate to say that a lot of Christians feel like Democrats are at war with them.  It just so happens most of them are white.  And while I don’t like using the word war in this context I think it’s a close approximation of what is going on.  A lot of Christians don’t like the social changes that have taken place the last 20-30 years and they tend to blame the Democrats for that.  And then as @MAC_32 pointed out in another thread - it doesn’t help the Democratic cause when that is attributed to something like white nationalism - even if it’s accurate for some people.
It’s bad strategy to try and destroy Christmas and white men at the same time: two front wars are never wise. 

 
I think that some of them feel threatened by the changing demographics in this country, and also by the “me too” movement. 

This started, not with Donald Trump, but with Rush Limbaugh. He’s been peddling this garbage for 30 years and now it’s accepted by many conservatives as gospel.
But I still feel this is more about being Christian (and Republican) than about being white.  Just MO.  I acknowledge for a disturbing number it is about that but I still think it’s a small percentage.

And back to that first point - I’ve said numerous times that way too many Christians conflate being a Republican with being a Christian.  

 
Again I’ll just focus on one of these statements in order to illustrate how serious they all are: do you feel threatened by this statement? Does it make you want to vote Republican because you believe that your right to vote might be taken away by Democrats? 
They make me aware of the extremism on the left which is part of the Democrat base.  I don't fear it because I know they are part of the minority of their party.  But still the leadership of the party does cater to such non-sense.  It has little influence on my vote, but it does on many people.  I mostly oppose democrat's worldview that the government seems to be the answer to every problem.  

 
It’s bad strategy to try and destroy Christmas and white men at the same time: two front wars are never wise. 
The war on Xmas thing has always been comical to me, but it’s indicative of the mindset of some and shows my point.  Another illustration is the more recent Chick-fil-a announcement.  There’s a segment of people boycotting them because of this and those people will ultimately blame Democrats/liberals for what they did.  

 
They make me aware of the extremism on the left which is part of the Democrat base.  I don't fear it because I know they are part of the minority of their party.  But still the leadership of the party does cater to such non-sense.  It has little influence on my vote, but it does on many people.  I mostly oppose democrat's worldview that the government seems to be the answer to every problem.  
So when some guy proposes that all straight white males be banned from voting, you regard that as a serious example of leftist extremism rather than satire? 

 
So when some guy proposes that all straight white males be banned from voting, you regard that as a serious example of leftist extremism rather than satire? 
It is just part of the entire package.  By itself, it is nothing.  But the fact that this is supposedly funny is disturbing and illustrates the problem.  

 
It is just part of the entire package.  By itself, it is nothing.  But the fact that this is supposedly funny is disturbing and illustrates the problem.  
I don’t find it funny. I also don’t think it illustrates anything substantial 

But let’s not forget that you began this conversation by comparing the suppose Democratic war on white people to the very prevailing  real Republican attitude toward Hispanic immigration. You have yet to justify this comparison, nor do I think you can. 

 
Back to the thread title - I was trying to find a post I think I made in here (or maybe elsewhere) but couldn’t.  With the title change I now agree that it’s fairly accurate but I’m personally ok with that as long as people follow the rules and make the threads about discussing stuff and not each other.  I’m proud to be a part of a community that I think stands up for what I think is right.  

 
Same could be said for CNN and MSNBC.
This is the problem. 

Infowars is a conspiracy site which has claimed, among other things, that several of the mass shootings in this country were staged by the government in order to pursue seizure of guns. Yet @JohnnyU claims that CNN and MSNBC are just as bad, and @GoBirds apparently concurs. How can we have a reasonable exchange of ideas when one side begins with such an incredibly flawed premises regarding news sources? Obviously we can’t. 

 
This is the problem. 

Infowars is a conspiracy site which has claimed, among other things, that several of the mass shootings in this country were staged by the government in order to pursue seizure of guns. Yet @JohnnyU claims that CNN and MSNBC are just as bad, and @GoBirds apparently concurs. How can we have a reasonable exchange of ideas when one side begins with such an incredibly flawed premises regarding news sources? Obviously we can’t. 
At the same time...we see redstate.com and pjmedia used as sources (Gateway Pundit and Conservative Treehouse as well)...we have even seen a poster using Russian State Media.

POTUS rails on fake news yet cites OANN quite often.

 
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This thread really is a classic. The OP had a one word post and here we are 21 months later still talking. Later due to the :pokey:  a mod has to step in and edit the phishing thread title. It's almost hilarious.

I thought Ren's post further up was insightful, but hey let's recall how completely nuts 2015-2016 was especially in terms of the Trump threads - there might have been 6 or so serving as the "campaign" threads? - and they were constantly getting locked, they were largely unreadable and the mods must have been going through hell keeping up with them. The original Russia thread got imploded over it. So yeah like he said it's 85/15 anti-Trump because many Trump folks left. Yes many were banned or suspended or just left. But as they occasionally show and even state themselves many - many - are still reading. I'm guessing the readership is more like 50/50 or something like 55/45 or 60/40, who knows, They've explained why they read but don't post, and usually the statement is because they're treated mean when it's suggested that they should share brunt or blame for Trump's more unsavory actions. I'd agree that issue is not entirely clear to me. I certainly appreciate and understand people who put their future and their family's ahead of everything else.

And I think another theme is how for Trump folks resentment over being suppressed and media bias are consistently the most important issues, more than almost anything else in the Trumpverse.

 
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Seven crazy theories from infowars

Satanists are taking over America

Bill Gates is a eugenicist trying to wipe out minorities

The government is controlling the weather
 

Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring out of a D.C.-area pizza restaurant

The government is complicit in countless terrorist and lone-gunman attacks

Millions of undocumented immigrants illegally voted in the election
 

Former Fox News host Glenn Beck is a CIA operative

 
REPORT: ILHAN OMAR AND THE LEFT’S WAR ON WHITE MEN – INFOWARS, July 25, 2019
The Alex Jones Show

Alex Jones covers a resurfaced clip of Illan Omar telling Al Jazera that white men should be feared.

By the way, get DNA Force Plus 50% off and get a free bottle of Brain Force Plus now!
Maybe just consider removing this one for a good discussion? It's a clip of the Alex Jones show. Not really helpful to the pro-Trump folks.

 
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Maybe just consider removing this one for a good discussion? It's a clip of the Alex Jones show. Not really helpful to the pro-Trump folks.
Are any of them helpful?  It was a bunch of opinions, mostly from fringe people...vs the words of POTUS.  That there is any comparison here is pretty strange.

 
Are any of them helpful?  It was a bunch of opinions, mostly from fringe people...vs the words of POTUS.  That there is any comparison here is pretty strange.
I don't feel like picking them apart, but I do think it would be good if Jon and pro/anti Trumpers alike could agree that Jones at least is excrement that we can all collectively scrape off this board. - eta - And Jon's just trying to make a point, but having this link in the middle of his 'support' blows the whole thing up from the get-go.

 
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It will be interesting to watch where the new paradigms take us and whether they are objectively evaluated.  At some point it may become a privilege to be able to shut others down by checking their privileges.  What then will arise?  No matter, at least for me.  The world moves on and I, increasingly, do not.    I do have some rooting interests in society flourishing as I have progeny. May things improve, heal and flourish, in spite of my pessimism.

 
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