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Is this forum still an Anti Trump Echo Chamber (Was: just a liberal echo chamber?) (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant said:
Thanks. No specific links. Just the general, "when you lie with dogs and you'll get fleas" pre judging sentiment I see. I know if I held any views remotely supported by the White House, even on things like Tax or Immigration, I wouldn't post in this forum. Just not worth it. I see lots of my friends who feel the same. I think there are lots of people like courtjester. I would be if I were in their shoes.

Hoping it changes. Ok, out for sure now. 
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To be honest, I'm surprised to see you say this about the tax thread.  For me personally, it's by far my favorite Political Sub-Forum thread, and much of that reason is because the conversation tends to not have the constant sniping that you're referring to here.  There are a number of posters in that thread, myself included, who are openly in favor of lower tax rates for individuals and businesses.  (I do, however, have concerns about the timing of the overhaul given the reasonably strong economy, and thus the long-term efficacy of the policy.)  But the posters in that thread, for the most part, tend to be the same posters who post in the other financial-related threads here at FBG.  There's a wide range of financial knowledge on these boards, and in my experience the tax thread has been remarkably civil compared to many of the other Political Sub-Forum threads.  Perhaps that's because taxes are such a boring and confusing topic to discuss that the "trolls" stay away.

 
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Courtjester said:
“Just when I  thought I was out, they pull me back in.”

The point I was making was there were people who didn’t  like Obama on FBGs but they crtitcized OBAMA and his policies NOT the people who voted for him.

Typical Trump thread progression on here:

Post one—Trump sucks!! 

Post two—-(quoting post one) And he is stupid!!!

Post three—(quoting post two) And he is a racist and a Nazi 

Post Four—(will usually start with either) Well so are most Trump voters (or the ever popular) How can Trump voters.....insert whatever...

Almost every single Trump thread progresse to attack the people that voted for him and not Trump himself. If you hate the guy—which many, many do, then attack THE GUY—not a person who exercised their right to vote. No wonder there aren’t many Trump posters on here. 

Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.
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I know you’re a very important and busy guy.  But if you have a moment, we would appreciate it if you could link to one Trump thread that progressed in this manner so we can all playback the action you’re describing here.  

You’ve described this progression as “typical” and “almost every single Trump thread” so it shouldn’t take long to find one.

 
Courtjester said:
Maybe at 48 years old I am becoming senile, but you never saw that on FBGs when Obama was president. We had fun (some times heated) debates and meaningful discourse over some of his policies—which some of us didn’t like, but we didn’t use our disagreement as a basis for an indictment/name calling of the FBG Obama voters at every turn.




2
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You have got to be ####ting me.  You think the board was a "#######" free zone?  

 
Here's a piece, mostly about guns, but which also touches on larger issues like how conservatives feel under attack even when they hold most of the reins of legitimate power and pass most of the legislation favorable to themselves. Tl;dr = they win elections everywhere, pass their bills and yet still find public sentiment moving in the opposite direction. We live in an odd country.

 
The Football Freak said:
We’ve done polls here over the years. The site leans conservative. What you are noticing is that opinions are not monolithic within political ideologies, and that they  don’t need to comport with your own views in order to be conservative. 
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That has been my perception although it has been claimed that the most recent polls indicate otherwise. There seemed to be a lot more Obama bashing while he was POTUS than there was support, although perhaps his critics here were just more vocal.

The problem is that not everyone votes in the polls so the results may not be indicative of how most who enter this forum lean politically due to the small sample size.

 
Stealthycat said:
if that's what you think okie dokie

I disagree

just for giggles ... what you think the % is that voted Democrat in 2016 here?
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I think most conservatives here are moderates, they vote with their wallets more as they get older, they are more and more bothered by entitlements.

I always assumed most of the conservatives here simply avoided the politics because who wants to have to defend Trump?

 
massraider said:
I think most conservatives here are moderates, they vote with their wallets more as they get older, they are more and more bothered by entitlements.

I always assumed most of the conservatives here simply avoided the politics because who wants to have to defend Trump?
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Nah, some of us though are really conservative and aren't avoiding anything.  I would argue many of the pro-Trump posts are not conservative and that is why they feel, on some level, that they are being attacked constantly because those of us that can argue from a closer point of conservative clarity aren't supporting them and are, in fact, attacking them.  But that just makes us cucks or something.

Because Jacobins eat their own. 

 
Stealthycat said:
if that's what you think okie dokie

I disagree

just for giggles ... what you think the % is that voted Democrat in 2016 here?
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Is this post an attempt for you to prove that people are Democrats because that's who they voted for?  There are a large number of people who voted Democrat because they didn't want Trump to be President.  I'm sure there was a decent number of Democrats that voted for Trump because they can't stand Clinton as well so should they be labeled Republicans now? 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove on here anymore other than most of your logic is incredibly flawed.

 
squistion said:
That has been my perception although it has been claimed that the most recent polls indicate otherwise. There seemed to be a lot more Obama bashing while he was POTUS than there was support, although perhaps his critics here were just more vocal.

The problem is that not everyone votes in the polls so the results may not be indicative of how most who enter this forum lean politically due to the small sample size.
Click to expand...
This is the best poll I could find for how we break down at this point. I think the sample size is fine, considering the size of the forum, and the political breakdown is pretty much the same as the ones from 10-11 years ago. I’d prefer if “moderate” hadn’t been used as a choice, since a lot of people consider themselves a moderate when, in reality, they are nowhere close, but I think it’s representative.

FBG political leanings poll

103 on the right. 88 on the left. 45 in the middle.

(For anyone clicking, scroll to the top for poll results. The search keyed in on that post because of my search terms.)

@Stealthycat

 
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And another thing, yeah, I'm a little wound up, I keep seeing Trump supporters saying that they wish he'd "stop tweeting stupid stuff."  You know, it isn't that he's tweeting that stuff, it's that he believes what he's tweeting. It's what and how he thinks. This is really analogous to "the leaks are the real problem." No, they're not.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Is this post an attempt for you to prove that people are Democrats because that's who they voted for?  There are a large number of people who voted Democrat because they didn't want Trump to be President.  I'm sure there was a decent number of Democrats that voted for Trump because they can't stand Clinton as well so should they be labeled Republicans now? 

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove on here anymore other than most of your logic is incredibly flawed.
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cstu voted Hillary because if Trump had won he’d have been out a whole lot of dough. 

 
urbanhack said:
Yea...that's a complete load of ####.   flapgreen and co. think Obama is a horrible human being, just the worst....but can never get them to tell us why.  
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Jesus, go back to the W years.  I remember being told I should be tortured by those lovable Hussein boys.  And that was back when I actually tried to debate civilly.  After a certain point, yeah, I decided there was more profit in pointing and laughing.  But I don't think that's surprising considering that we went from responding to talking points from the National Review to responding to talking points from Little Green Footballs to responding to talking points from Breitbart to responding to talking points from "SoyBoySlayer" on r/thedonald.  

 
The Football Freak said:
This is the best poll I could find for how we break down at this point. I think the sample size is fine, considering the size of the forum, and the political breakdown is pretty much the same as the ones from 10-11 years ago. I’d prefer if “moderate” hadn’t been used as a choice, since a lot of people consider themselves a moderate when, in reality, they are nowhere close, but I think it’s representative.

FBG political leanings poll

103 on the right. 88 on the left. 45 in the middle.

(For anyone clicking, scroll to the top for poll results. The search keyed in on that post because of my search terms.)

@Stealthycat
Click to expand...
There have been a bunch of polls over the years. There’s been some variance, and they’ve gone back and forth a bit, but for the most part, they haven’t shown a very heavy lean one way or the other.

Most people on the left seem to remember most of the polls leaning right, and most people on the right seem to remember most of the polls leaning left. Because obviously everyone is in the minority.

 
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squistion said:
That has been my perception although it has been claimed that the most recent polls indicate otherwise. There seemed to be a lot more Obama bashing while he was POTUS than there was support, although perhaps his critics here were just more vocal.

The problem is that not everyone votes in the polls so the results may not be indicative of how most who enter this forum lean politically due to the small sample size.
Click to expand...
you're also discounting the trolls, who cause a perception of a particular side being overrepresented.   much of the extremist posting is by people who just enjoy getting others riled up and don't actually care about the issues--it has nothing to do with how the board leans.  

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
There have been a bunch of polls over the years. There’s been some variance, and they’ve gone back and forth a bit, but for the most part, they haven’t shown a very heavy lean one way or the other.

Most people on the left seem to remember most of the polls leaning right, and most people on the right seem to remember most of the polls leaning left. Because obviously everyone is in the minority.
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Yeah, I only recalled a few that showed a slight conservative lean. Considering you are, 1) smarter than I am, 3) work here, and 4) the facts of this conversation perfectly fit your larger point, I’m fine considering the board evenly split. 

 
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Serious denial on page 1 as to the reason for the 'liberal echo chamber'. Tim's hypothesis is so far off its pure comedy: They no longer post, perhaps because because they're disgusted with Trump and don't want to defend him. I don't know the reasons, that's just a guess on my part.

Tim, it's an across the board catastrophic drop in traffic here including the shark pool.

The reason there are less and less people here is because they have been reported and given timeouts and/or banned for upsetting and/or 'offending' someone and just decided to move on. The place is a microcosm of USA circa early 2010s-present. It became infested with an number of 'i'm going to tell on you' posters. You can tell by the # of users left here. Heck look at the front page. Most user online = 15,114 in 2007. This place will never see 1/10 that number again. Heck, i doubt there are 1500 actual actively posting users left. There hasn't even been a new user since Sunday the 25th. Looking forward concerning bannings and new members, the best days are long gone.

My guess is this becomes one of the 'hit and run' troll posts, even though it is 100% accurate. BTW, seems 'troll' is a favorite of anyone who disagrees with someone else's view now.

Well keep up the good work.  :thumbup:

 
Sorry have to :lmao:  @ that last post.

Thebwhole they were all banned for just disagreeing is the biggest load of garbage ever.

 
The Football Freak said:
Yeah, I only recalled a few that showed a slight conservative lean. Considering you are, 1) smarter than I am, 3) work here, and 4) the facts of this conversation perfectly fit your larger point, I’m fine considering the board evenly split. 
Click to expand...
Probably wise of you to defer judgement on a numerical matter.

 
The Football Freak said:
This is the best poll I could find for how we break down at this point. I think the sample size is fine, considering the size of the forum, and the political breakdown is pretty much the same as the ones from 10-11 years ago. I’d prefer if “moderate” hadn’t been used as a choice, since a lot of people consider themselves a moderate when, in reality, they are nowhere close, but I think it’s representative.

FBG political leanings poll

103 on the right. 88 on the left. 45 in the middle.

(For anyone clicking, scroll to the top for poll results. The search keyed in on that post because of my search terms.)

@Stealthycat
Click to expand...
You are proving his point.  Poll shows more Democrats and Liberals on this board than Republicans and Conservatives. 

 
Calvitron Johnson said:
Serious denial on page 1 as to the reason for the 'liberal echo chamber'. Tim's hypothesis is so far off its pure comedy: They no longer post, perhaps because because they're disgusted with Trump and don't want to defend him. I don't know the reasons, that's just a guess on my part.

Tim, it's an across the board catastrophic drop in traffic here including the shark pool.

The reason there are less and less people here is because they have been reported and given timeouts and/or banned for upsetting and/or 'offending' someone and just decided to move on. The place is a microcosm of USA circa early 2010s-present. It became infested with an number of 'i'm going to tell on you' posters. You can tell by the # of users left here. Heck look at the front page. Most user online = 15,114 in 2007. This place will never see 1/10 that number again. Heck, i doubt there are 1500 actual actively posting users left. There hasn't even been a new user since Sunday the 25th. Looking forward concerning bannings and new members, the best days are long gone.

My guess is this becomes one of the 'hit and run' troll posts, even though it is 100% accurate. BTW, seems 'troll' is a favorite of anyone who disagrees with someone else's view now.

Well keep up the good work.  :thumbup:
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I can’t comment on the Shark Pool. I don’t really pay enough attention. 

As far as bannings go, theres a few who deserved it. But there are several who didn’t deserve it, IMO. I understand the desire to clean things up and keep up the “be excellent to each other” idea, but I’m glad I’m not a moderator because I’d be terrible at it. I would never suspend anybody. 

To me a “hit and run post” is one in which no ideas are expressed, just an in your face insult or attack; therefore your post wouldn’t qualify. 

 
This thread is a sad example of the brainwashing of America.

On every single page there are people calling Trump a racist. And his supporters racist. Or Nazis.

That would be as productive as us calling them pedophiles and rapists on every single page.

No basis in fact, only meant to divide.

It is understandable that some will not like Trump's tone. He is not a politician, he is a new Yorker. A businessman. A salesman. And a Patriot.

But to go on day after day, year after year, not accepting reality (you lost, for the time being Americans said no to your political persuasion) and screaming at the sky because you do not know how or forgot how to take a loss is just pathetic.

Trump approval is at all time high, higher than Obama's at the same point.

Heritage Foundation just released a statement saying that Trump has hit 64% of their 300+ targets, in year one. His policies are more conservative than even Reagan.

Trump is crushing it right now, despite the unprecedented hate and opposition from the Dems and MSM, an even some from his own party.

Yes this place is an echo chamber.

And as long as anyone is throwing around the word racist or Nazi they are no different than the storm front or antifa people. Just hate filled sore losers.

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
This thread is a sad example of the brainwashing of America.

On every single page there are people calling Trump a racist. And his supporters racist. Or Nazis.

That would be as productive as us calling them pedophiles and rapists on every single page.

No basis in fact, only meant to divide.

It is understandable that some will not like Trump's tone. He is not a politician, he is a new Yorker. A businessman. A salesman. And a Patriot.

But to go on day after day, year after year, not accepting reality (you lost, for the time being Americans said no to your political persuasion) and screaming at the sky because you do not know how or forgot how to take a loss is just pathetic.

Trump approval is at all time high, higher than Obama's at the same point.

Heritage Foundation just released a statement saying that Trump has hit 64% of their 300+ targets, in year one. His policies are more conservative than even Reagan.

Trump is crushing it right now, despite the unprecedented hate and opposition from the Dems and MSM, an even some from his own party.

Yes this place is an echo chamber.

And as long as anyone is throwing around the word racist or Nazi they are no different than the storm front or antifa people. Just hate filled sore losers.
Click to expand...
Oh damn you've convinced me.  Where do I buy my MAGA hat and AR 15 and when do I get to start mocking #######s and soyboys?

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
This thread is a sad example of the brainwashing of America.

On every single page there are people calling Trump a racist. And his supporters racist. Or Nazis.

That would be as productive as us calling them pedophiles and rapists on every single page.

No basis in fact, only meant to divide.

It is understandable that some will not like Trump's tone. He is not a politician, he is a new Yorker. A businessman. A salesman. And a Patriot.

But to go on day after day, year after year, not accepting reality (you lost, for the time being Americans said no to your political persuasion) and screaming at the sky because you do not know how or forgot how to take a loss is just pathetic.

Trump approval is at all time high, higher than Obama's at the same point.

Heritage Foundation just released a statement saying that Trump has hit 64% of their 300+ targets, in year one. His policies are more conservative than even Reagan.

Trump is crushing it right now, despite the unprecedented hate and opposition from the Dems and MSM, an even some from his own party.

Yes this place is an echo chamber.

And as long as anyone is throwing around the word racist or Nazi they are no different than the storm front or antifa people. Just hate filled sore losers.
Click to expand...
Your trolling is very subtle. 

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
This thread is a sad example of the brainwashing of America.

On every single page there are people calling Trump a racist. And his supporters racist. Or Nazis.

That would be as productive as us calling them pedophiles and rapists on every single page.

No basis in fact, only meant to divide.

It is understandable that some will not like Trump's tone. He is not a politician, he is a new Yorker. A businessman. A salesman. And a Patriot.

But to go on day after day, year after year, not accepting reality (you lost, for the time being Americans said no to your political persuasion) and screaming at the sky because you do not know how or forgot how to take a loss is just pathetic.

Trump approval is at all time high, higher than Obama's at the same point.

Heritage Foundation just released a statement saying that Trump has hit 64% of their 300+ targets, in year one. His policies are more conservative than even Reagan.

Trump is crushing it right now, despite the unprecedented hate and opposition from the Dems and MSM, an even some from his own party.

Yes this place is an echo chamber.

And as long as anyone is throwing around the word racist or Nazi they are no different than the storm front or antifa people. Just hate filled sore losers.
Click to expand...
You forgot the mic drop at the end.  Post of the year.  

 
This discussion, and particularly the last absurd post by Bozeman Bruiser, just took an ironic turn. During the last 24 hours, Donald Trump just took the most momentous move of his presidency: imposing tariffs on steel and aluminum, and starting a trade war. What is the correct conservative response? Anyone who buys into American conservative trust of capitalism and free markets should be condemning Trump right now. 

 
Bozeman Bruiser said:
This thread is a sad example of the brainwashing of America.

On every single page there are people calling Trump a racist. And his supporters racist. Or Nazis.

That would be as productive as us calling them pedophiles and rapists on every single page.

No basis in fact, only meant to divide.

It is understandable that some will not like Trump's tone. He is not a politician, he is a new Yorker. A businessman. A salesman. And a Patriot.

But to go on day after day, year after year, not accepting reality (you lost, for the time being Americans said no to your political persuasion) and screaming at the sky because you do not know how or forgot how to take a loss is just pathetic.

Trump approval is at all time high, higher than Obama's at the same point.

Heritage Foundation just released a statement saying that Trump has hit 64% of their 300+ targets, in year one. His policies are more conservative than even Reagan.

Trump is crushing it right now, despite the unprecedented hate and opposition from the Dems and MSM, an even some from his own party.

Yes this place is an echo chamber.

And as long as anyone is throwing around the word racist or Nazi they are no different than the storm front or antifa people. Just hate filled sore losers.
Click to expand...
You lost me at him being a Patriot.  That made me laugh out loud.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
I know you’re a very important and busy guy.  But if you have a moment, we would appreciate it if you could link to one Trump thread that progressed in this manner so we can all playback the action you’re describing here.  

You’ve described this progression as “typical” and “almost every single Trump thread” so it shouldn’t take long to find one.
Click to expand...
:lmao:  This very thread didn't even make it past page 1 before urbanhack called Trump and every one of his supporters Nazis.

It amazes me how much of a tool you have to be before getting a time out around this place.  

 
tonydead said:
:lmao:  This very thread didn't even make it past page 1 before urbanhack called Trump and every one of his supporters Nazis.

It amazes me how much of a tool you have to be before getting a time out around this place.  
Click to expand...
Don’t worry.  You’re enough of a tool to get banned.

 
Don't Noonan said:
You are proving his point.  Poll shows more Democrats and Liberals on this board than Republicans and Conservatives. 
Click to expand...
You are adding together answers from question 1 and 2, which would be doubling up on responses. The second question doesn’t parse Libertarians like the first one does, in order to break the left and right Ls into groups. It is moot, however, because I believe Maurile that we are basically an even breakdown of left and right.  

 
urbanhack said:
it's an echo chamber for the 75% of non trump supporters who happen to be any combination of liberal, democrat, independent, libertarian and conservative republicans.  I don't know how many times this needs repeated. 

And those of you in the 25% group who support Trump...congratulations in being in the same small group as nazis, Russians, white supremacists and fake news enablers.  Great group you have going there.  :thumbup:     
Click to expand...


tonydead said:
:lmao:  This very thread didn't even make it past page 1 before urbanhack called Trump and every one of his supporters Nazis.

It amazes me how much of a tool you have to be before getting a time out around this place.  
Click to expand...
His actual post above...where he did not call Trump and every one of his supporters Nazis.

This is the disconnect.  The side playing the victim card in this thread and the moderation one constantly making false claims like this....that people are calling all Trump supporters nazis...that simply is not the case.  Words have meaning.  Similar to people claiming some are called trolls simply for disagreeing...again, not what is actually happening.

I think there is fair criticism to be had of the anti trump side being intolerant of some things (and some of the intolerance is earned based on ignoring factual evidence).

I think it sucks that @Joe Bryant doesn't feel he can discuss some issues without having people pile on.  I would argue that if people present reasonable points, they don't get piled on and insulted no matter who they are.  Its when the points become unreasonable, unwaivering despite clear facts against them...that get testy.

A well reasoned argument for immigration reform can be had...but make the argument and support it.  When the argument gets made without support is when people have taken issue with things.

 
sho nuff said:
His actual post above...where he did not call Trump and every one of his supporters Nazis.

This is the disconnect.  The side playing the victim card in this thread and the moderation one constantly making false claims like this....that people are calling all Trump supporters nazis...that simply is not the case.  Words have meaning.  Similar to people claiming some are called trolls simply for disagreeing...again, not what is actually happening.

I think there is fair criticism to be had of the anti trump side being intolerant of some things (and some of the intolerance is earned based on ignoring factual evidence).

I think it sucks that @Joe Bryant doesn't feel he can discuss some issues without having people pile on.  I would argue that if people present reasonable points, they don't get piled on and insulted no matter who they are.  Its when the points become unreasonable, unwaivering despite clear facts against them...that get testy.

A well reasoned argument for immigration reform can be had...but make the argument and support it.  When the argument gets made without support is when people have taken issue with things.
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I think it sucks too.

It's my opinion that when your point is broad generalizations linking anyone who supports Trump with nazis and Russians and white supremacists, you're looking to score high five points and not looking for real discussion. 

And those of you in the 25% group who support Trump...congratulations in being in the same small group as nazis, Russians, white supremacists and fake news enablers.  Great group you have going there. 
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's how we make sure we have mostly one side represented here. Which I think it not optimal. Even though it's all my side being represented here. 

 
Joe Bryant said:
I think it sucks too.

It's my opinion that when your point is broad generalizations linking anyone who supports Trump with nazis and Russians and white supremacists, you're looking to score high five points and not looking for real discussion. 

That's exactly what I'm talking about. That's how we make sure we have mostly one side represented here. Which I think it not optimal. Even though it's all my side being represented here. 
Click to expand...
Sure...I think that was a bit over the top.  But its close to spot on right now.  When you chose to support Trump all in (as some on here have)...you are in a group that includes those other "deplorables".  I think that would cause me to question my own thoughts if they were that similar to groups like those.

I don't think that is the same as saying anyone who supports Trump is one of those people though (which some posters continue to confuse and claim people are making the latter assertion that they are also Nazis and so on).

As I said...I think reasonable discussion can exist.  There area few Trump supporting posters that have shown they are capable of this.  There are others who can't though and will conflate issues, deny facts, and post outright falsehoods over and over even after its shown to be false.  That is a problem itself.

 
sho nuff said:
Sure...I think that was a bit over the top.  But its close to spot on right now.  When you chose to support Trump all in (as some on here have)...you are in a group that includes those other "deplorables".  I think that would cause me to question my own thoughts if they were that similar to groups like those.

I don't think that is the same as saying anyone who supports Trump is one of those people though (which some posters continue to confuse and claim people are making the latter assertion that they are also Nazis and so on).

As I said...I think reasonable discussion can exist.  There area few Trump supporting posters that have shown they are capable of this.  There are others who can't though and will conflate issues, deny facts, and post outright falsehoods over and over even after its shown to be false.  That is a problem itself.
Click to expand...
exhibit A on a poster that just doesn't "get it"

 
Don't Noonan said:
No, no I don't.   Been there, done that.  Way too tiring.
Click to expand...
Which brings me back to my post.

As I said...I think reasonable discussion can exist.  There area few Trump supporting posters that have shown they are capable of this.  There are others who can't though and will conflate issues, deny facts, and post outright falsehoods over and over even after its shown to be false.  That is a problem itself.

 
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