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Capella

2018-19 NBA Thread: Magic Johnson leaves Lakers in order to pursue other jobs to be completely terrible at

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3 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Because they are paid to play basketball not make executive decisions for teams and / or the league. It creates a conflict of interest.

The league is run by a variety of business professionals for a variety of reasons. When the players begin to take control from the actual people in charge, it's bad for business, results in general chaos for everyone, and damages parity.

All for selfish reasons.

It takes some very impressive mental gymnastics to know that one group is made up of people who have collectively banded together multiple times to cease operations of their joint business in attempt to gain additional power over those that provide the labor that generates every dollar of revenue, and eventually get what they want all because they have an appreciable asset while the other side has a depreciable asset which forces their hands to stretch across the table...

and yet you think it's this other group that has the conflict of interest.

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6 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I love this guy. :lmao:

And to answer your question, maybe. I just think that the players benefit more from getting paid millions of dollars than the "burden" they have of being unhappy with the team they're on. In this particular scenario, Kawhi chose to sign a 5-year / 90 million dollar deal to stay in San Antonio back in 2015. How bad can I feel for the guy getting paid more money per than I'll make in my lifetime?

When you have players "running the show" as opposed to the suits and ties, I think it hurts the majority of the league. The NBA as I view it, is supposed to be a business, with each team vying to put the best players on the court. When you're a free agent, sure, go wherever you want. But when you want to start throwing away commitments to go play where you want to play, I don't like that. It gives big market teams an even bigger advantage when these players try to force their way to where they want.

Morally, sure, it would be great if the inmates could run the asylum since they are the reason the place is profitable. But it's bad for the competitive balance with the way the league is heading. You never hear anyone saying, "Oh, I want to play in Utah" or "Oh, I want to play in Brooklyn". The rich get richer and it's "nice" to give the players what they want. But it's horrid for the fans of certain teams that will never be the beneficiaries of such thinking.

I was just trying to point out that the idiom is flawed. Lunatics are found in asylums. Inmates would be running the prison, as an NFL owner recently taught us during the whole anthem ordeal.

As to your point, I’ve never been sympathetic to professional athletes holding out, becoming “injured”, etc. when they become unhappy. At least with guaranteed contracts/money.

I also don’t think the owners of the Brooklyns and Utah’s of pro leagues really care that much either as long as they get their chunk of revenue sharing from the league (full disclosure: traumatized Bengals fan here). You say the NBA is a business, but the #1 goal of a business is to make money, and doesn’t necesarrily mean you really want to put the best players in the court at all costs.

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14 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

That's what I'm saying. I mean, who knows if Kawhi Leonard ever wins a Championship or becomes Defensive MVP without the coaching he received in San Antonio. The Clippers were a 29 win team when he entered the league. If he was allowed to pick his destiny coming out of college, he probably is half the player he is and doesn't have a championship.

It just seems ungrateful. Obviously I'm not a player but I feel like the uncertainty of where you end up playing is all part of the journey.

I've been on the I think the Spurs are more so to be believed then Leonard wagon since this started and people were upset with me for that and bring up his personality. Just by reading some stuff from NBA insiders Kawahi seems like a weird bird to begin with and seems like maybe he was always like this but considering the Vets SA had it never came out until this past season with Timmy gone. Like I said if this was Sac or Clevland I might be willing to side with Leonard here but he's doing it to the most respected coach this league has had in years and one of the nicest people off the court as well as an organization who has handled many things over the years with class as well as a very good fan base. You are gonna throw all that away after signing the deal you did because you now want to play in LA. Yeah I'm with you here. Sorry if I sound unforgiving but he signed a huge contract ad committed himself to SA. If you were having second thoughts why sign the deal? I honestly can't feel sorry for these NBA players who when they don't get their way take their ball and go home. 

At this point I think Sixers fans should be really happy they aren't getting that malcontent and didn't give up some assets in players and picks. As for SA they handled it as well as they could and props to Tony Parker for calling out Kawahi BS too. I'm more so disappointed than ANGRY because Leonard happens to be one of my favorite players and he pulls this stunt? Like really dude? It's almost like Derrick Rose in Chicago all over again for the exception Rose had two major Knee surgries. 

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8 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

It takes some very impressive mental gymnastics to know that one group is made up of people who have collectively banded together multiple times to cease operations of their joint business in attempt to gain additional power over those that provide the labor that generates every dollar of revenue, and eventually get what they want all because they have an appreciable asset while the other side has a depreciable asset which forces their hands to stretch across the table...

and yet you think it's this other group that has the conflict of interest.

 

8 minutes ago, Rustoleum said:

I was just trying to point out that the idiom is flawed. Lunatics are found in asylums. Inmates would be running the prison, as an NFL owner recently taught us during the whole anthem ordeal.

As to your point, I’ve never been sympathetic to professional athletes holding out, becoming “injured”, etc. when they become unhappy. At least with guaranteed contracts/money.

I also don’t think the owners of the Brooklyns and Utah’s of pro leagues really care that much either as long as they get their chunk of revenue sharing from the league (full disclosure: traumatized Bengals fan here). You say the NBA is a business, but the #1 goal of a business is to make money, and doesn’t necesarrily mean you really want to put the best players in the court at all costs.

I'd just like to point out that you guys are both waaay smarter than me. Maybe I should come back to this thread when the actual basketball starts getting played and we can argue about Kristaps Porzingus being soft in the paint. :lol:

Either way, I appreciate the insight from both of you since you've actually engaged directly with my thoughts and expounded upon them to levels which I hadn't considered. You guys are obviously more knowledgeable on the topic than me and it certainly helps me mold my perspective.

Edited by Stuart Ullman

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2 minutes ago, Capella said:

Guess it’s gone. Thanks anyways gang. 

It was basically just a short “and the horse you rode in on” rant. Might have been sufficient to get Kawhi out of San Antonio earlier.

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14 minutes ago, Capella said:

Guess it’s gone. Thanks anyways gang. 

He expressed unambiguous displeasure with Joe over the direction the board has taken.

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6 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Hahaha

How bad can it be, you're there 9 months out of the year, half the time you're on the road. The other half you're working out or playing indoors. The rest of that time you're in a very nice house with a gigantic-### furnace. Whenever you go out, you have to occasionally walk from your car to the heated restaurant/Target/laundromat/whatever. Guy needs to grow some hard bark.

Oh and you get to legitimately contend to make the Finals instead of being on a lotto team.

And you’re making enough money to set your family up with a very nice life for a long time. 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

And people wonder why I complain about today's NBA players. There's wanting to go play for the team you want but there's much better ways of handling things then Leonard did. So many people giving him a pass because "that's not the type of guy he is" but ithe more I read from NBA people the more Leonard looks like a prima donna drama queen. I get pulling this bs in say Sac or Cleveland but to do it to such a classy Org in Pop and the Spurs is pretty pathetic.Pop made you be grateful. Ply out your contract and leave if thats what you want. 

Stuart - this is how you know you are wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Can somebody link to the flameout in here?

they deleted it and i guess i'm alive for now

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I’ve been afraid to go into the FFA outside this thread for like 5 years. It’s like the inmates are running the asylum creating a conflict of interest. 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

Except the Celtics almost beat LeBron. Had they not gotten so 3 happy in that last game they had a great chance. 

Just an FYI.  

Celtics 3PA in wins that series:  33.7 per game

Celtics 3PA in losses that series: 29.2 per game

 

Maybe they should have shot more.

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8 minutes ago, Frostillicus said:

Just an FYI.  

Celtics 3PA in wins that series:  33.7 per game

Celtics 3PA in losses that series: 29.2 per game

 

Maybe they should have shot more.

they needed more Aaron Baynes from the corner. 

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44 minutes ago, modogg said:

they needed more Aaron Baynes from the corner. 

Everybody needs more Baynes from the corner.

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1 hour ago, Frostillicus said:

Just an FYI.  

Celtics 3PA in wins that series:  33.7 per game

Celtics 3PA in losses that series: 29.2 per game

 

Maybe they should have shot more.

The 3s they took that game weren't very good 3s attempted. Meaning they had a better shot else where but decided to go for the 3 instead. 

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25 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Everybody needs more Baynes from the corner.

Is Baynes the new White Mamba or did I unintentionally just offend Brian Scalabrine? 

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1 hour ago, DJackson10 said:

The 3s they took that game weren't very good 3s attempted. Meaning they had a better shot else where but decided to go for the 3 instead. 

This isn't true.

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7 hours ago, Capella said:

This shtick makes me laugh. 

Any update on whether the Sixers are going to trade Barkley?  I heard Phoenix is interested...

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38 minutes ago, bananafish said:

If Greg Papa starts re-announcing Warriors games instead of the virtually unbearable ultra-doofus Bob Fitzgerald I might start listening to the radio again. Let us pray.

I was living in SF back when the Tuck Game happened and called into Papa’s radio show and started the call like I was a Raider fan but then turned the tables on Greg and started crowing about the Pats win. He was so pissed off and was shouting at me, one of my proudest radio moments.

Edited by JuniorGong
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9 hours ago, Britney Spears said:

I’ve been afraid to go into the FFA outside this thread for like 5 years. It’s like the inmates are running the asylum creating a conflict of interest. 

if you see a pitbull thread, run away as fast as you can....

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16 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Think about it though, it's Kawaii Leonard's fault for what happened to DeRozan. If Kawaii had honored his contract, the Raptors would have honored theirs with DeRozan. Again, the inmates are running the asylum and it's negatively impacting everyone.

Now two players are in places they don't want to be because Kawaii is being a cry baby. He's brought down DeRozan an innocent bystander with him.

If the inmates were indeed running the asylum, you would think that they wouldn't be in places they don't want to be

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12 hours ago, msudaisy26 said:

Not 100 percent sure if this is how it works, but my husband worked in Canada 7ish years ago and this is what happened.

A non-resident is usually required to pay Canadian tax only on Canadian sources of income; however, under the income tax treaty between Canada and the U.S., a worker may be exempt from Canadian taxation and may apply for exemption on withholding of tax from Canadian sources.

If the taxpayer is working in Canada, but for a U.S. company, and is paid by the U.S. company, employment income is exempt from Canadian taxation as long as the taxpayer is not residing in Canada.

I am not sure if the Raptors are considered a U.S. company since they are obviously in Toronto, but they are part of the NBA and that might be a US based company. Obviously it is murky and I am not a CPA.

Don't players get taxed where the money is earned?  IIRC, players, at one time anyway, had to pay state taxes when they played away games to the state in which they were playing.

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It takes a special kind of stupid to complain about people quoting a poster while you yourself continue to quote said poster.

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10 minutes ago, Short Corner said:

Don't players get taxed where the money is earned?  IIRC, players, at one time anyway, had to pay state taxes when they played away games to the state in which they were playing.

I don't know. I know there was a 4 year stretch where my husband worked in Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, North Dakota, and Canada and we never had to pay taxes in those states or country. Not sure why exactly. 

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Should we tell Yogibear about this thread so he'll stop creating topics in the basketball forum that nobody reads?  I'm guessing you guys will say no.

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1 minute ago, JuniorGong said:

Smart 4/52 with Celtics

Who were they bidding against? It's not going to kill them, but I don't think they needed to go that high as there were no other legit suitors.

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4 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

Smart 4/52 with Celtics

Pleasant surprise...C's did the Belichick and let him test the market and have him come back when he did not get a big offer...the timing of his restricted FA could not have been worse...he is a very unique player (who Stevens loves) in that what he does well he does very well and what he does not do well he doesn't do well at all...that being said I will take what he brings to this team at 13/mil a year over the next 4 years...if they waited till next year when he became unrestricted there is a good chance they would have lost him... 

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Who were they bidding against? It's not going to kill them, but I don't think they needed to go that high as there were no other legit suitors.

I assume Smart’s camp said this is what it will take to sign, otherwise they will take the qualifying offer but would absolutely go to free agency. Seems like an overpay to me but probably only by 1-2M a year and it a movable contract.

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1 minute ago, JuniorGong said:

I assume Smart’s camp said this is what it will take to sign, otherwise they will take the qualifying offer but would absolutely go to free agency. Seems like an overpay to me but probably only by 1-2M a year and it a movable contract.

If he could somehow get his outside jumper to go from awful to just below average it will be one of the best contracts in the NBA...not holding my breath on that one though...

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2 minutes ago, Boston said:

Pleasant surprise...C's did the Belichick and let him test the market and have him come back when he did not get a big offer...the timing of his restricted FA could not have been worse...he is a very unique player (who Stevens loves) in that what he does well he does very well and what he does not do well he doesn't do well at all...that being said I will take what he brings to this team at 13/mil a year over the next 4 years...if they waited till next year when he became unrestricted there is a good chance they would have lost him... 

So who would you rather have. Smart for 4/52 or Bradley for 2/25?

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8 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So who would you rather have. Smart for 4/52 or Bradley for 2/25?

Smart...and it is not even close...his tenacity is unmatched...Bradley is a solid player and has a better outside shot but they way the C's are constructed Smart adds more to the team...the fact that Smart is only 24 is another bonus...

Edited by Boston

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4 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So who would you rather have. Smart for 4/52 or Bradley for 2/25?

I reeeeally wanted to see the 2017-8 Green team intact for another season, so i'm glad we made no megadeals and got Smart back (about $6-8MM too much but as a fan i dont care because the Celts cant not be over the tax for the next several years so it wont affect future transactions).

The team that should have signed AB is the Sixers. All the Slowhites on D killed Philly's chances even more than St. Stevens figuring out where to pick Simmons up on the court and Bradley is the Revis Island of NBA defenders. Short of a megadeal themselves, swapping out Belly & Frankensova for AB & Zhaire would have been the way to go

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42 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So who would you rather have. Smart for 4/52 or Bradley for 2/25?

I'd say Smart, defensively they are close but Smart is stronger and can guard bigger players(sometimes even 4's). Smart is a better ball handler which takes some pressure off Kyrie, allows him to play off the ball more. Bradley is the better shooter and moves great without the ball(awesome cutter) but those skills aren't needed with this group as much as what Smart brings IMO. Smart has that edginess too :scared:

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

Pleasant surprise...C's did the Belichick and let him test the market and have him come back when he did not get a big offer...the timing of his restricted FA could not have been worse...he is a very unique player (who Stevens loves) in that what he does well he does very well and what he does not do well he doesn't do well at all...that being said I will take what he brings to this team at 13/mil a year over the next 4 years...if they waited till next year when he became unrestricted there is a good chance they would have lost him... 

$50 million dollars for chest-bumping ball handlers all game every game because you know the refs can't call them as fouls or you'd foul out in 90 seconds and everyone would lose their minds.  Marcus Smart is an absolute genius.

 

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5 hours ago, bananafish said:

If Greg Papa starts re-announcing Warriors games instead of the virtually unbearable ultra-doofus Bob Fitzgerald I might start listening to the radio again. Let us pray.

Most of the time listening to the radio guys makes sense because the TV announcers are so bad, but Golden State has some really solid local TV guys that do their games (unsure on names, but I watch enough league pass to know the 4 or 5 teams that have decent announcers.  I listen to podcasts and mute most games).

2 hours ago, Short Corner said:

Don't players get taxed where the money is earned?  IIRC, players, at one time anyway, had to pay state taxes when they played away games to the state in which they were playing.

Seem to recall reading how most states make sure to tax wages on players that play games in the state (athlete tax - ie, blatent money grab).  Could be wrong though.

1 hour ago, Boston said:

Pleasant surprise...C's did the Belichick and let him test the market and have him come back when he did not get a big offer..

Not sure that was the play for Ainge.  I think the frustration Smart and his group voiced a week or two ago over the Celtics 'radio silence' was accurate.  The Celtics we're leveraging to flip Smart in a sign-and-trade along with Marcus Morris, and pick(s) for Kawhi Leonard.  Until that played out, I don't believe anything else would happen and that was the Celtics strategy more thanp a Belichick like 'go get a deal elsewhere' RFA contract angle.

1 hour ago, Boston said:

If he could somehow get his outside jumper to go from awful to just below average it will be one of the best contracts in the NBA...not holding my breath on that one though...

Agreed.  Smart has developed a nice post game though and (with his vision/ability to find open shooters) I could see Brad Stevens using that against second units or in offensive line-ups where Kyrie is playing off ball.

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Just now, trader jake said:

Most of the time listening to the radio guys makes sense because the TV announcers are so bad, but Golden State has some really solid local TV guys that do their games (unsure on names, but I watch enough league pass to know the 4 or 5 teams that have decent announcers.  I listen to podcasts and mute most games).

Seem to recall reading how most states make sure to tax wages on players that play games in the state (athlete tax - ie, blatent money grab).  Could be wrong though.

Not sure that was the play for Ainge.  I think the frustration Smart and his group voiced a week or two ago over the Celtics 'radio silence' was accurate.  The Celtics we're leveraging to flip Smart in a sign-and-trade along with Marcus Morris, and pick(s) for Kawhi Leonard.  Until that played out, I don't believe anything else would happen and that was the Celtics strategy more thanp a Belichick like 'go get a deal elsewhere' RFA contract angle.

Agreed.  Smart has developed a nice post game though and (with his vision/ability to find open shooters) I could see Brad Stevens using that against second units or in offensive line-ups where Kyrie is playing off ball.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on the contract...Smart's option were very limited this offseason...locally the sign and trade angle popped up but was considered a longshot and I don't remember hearing any legit rumors about it...I think that the C's caught a break with the landscape of free agency this offseason and it worked to their advantage...if this were the summer that Evan Turner cashed in Smart would be making around 18 million a year right now and wearing another uniform...

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17 hours ago, need2know said:

Nba is awesome right now

I agree. The Warriors are at the top for now and a long time coming. I love it.

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3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Who were they bidding against? It's not going to kill them, but I don't think they needed to go that high as there were no other legit suitors.

would have been a locker room headache and chemistry issue if they didn't. Obviously the Boston guys probably know better, but it seemed some were not happy with how Thomas was treated the year before, and Smart seems to be a leader on the team (at least this year with the young guys). If they low-balled him could very well bite them back, so this is a smart move I think. you have to balance the smart bookmaking while at the same time be player-friendly. It was what killed Sam Hinkie, though I think that was never really the case

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Warriors, Rockets, Blazers, Thunder, Jazz, Spurs, Nuggets, Wolves, Pelicans, Lakers

Who’s missing the playoffs here?

Edited by scoobus
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5 minutes ago, scoobus said:

Warriors, Rockets, Blazers, Thunder, Jazz, Pelicans, Nuggets, Wolves, Pelicans, Lakers

Who’s missing the playoffs here?

At least one of the Pelicans

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1 minute ago, scoobus said:

Warriors, Rockets, Blazers, Thunder, Jazz, Pelicans, Nuggets, Wolves, Pelicans, Lakers

Who’s missing the playoffs here?

it's a fun question. there may be one or 2 other surprise teams that compete. I will be taking the Suns over wins whatever it is set at, and Grizzlies have a chance to compete too.

I think most of the first 6 listed there are pretty close to 95% chance of making it. Blazers and Pels are the 2 that would seem to possibly dip, but can't see it happening. So that leaves 2 spots left for Nuggets, Lakers, Wolves, and I think you will have some other fringe. Have a real hard time seeing Lebron let that team not even make the playoffs. Always like to look the past 4-5 years of teams that can potentially "tank" and looking at schedules whoever has less of those teams near the end of the season likely could be bounced 

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Just now, JuniorGong said:

At least one of the Pelicans

Haha yeah, fixed.

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8 minutes ago, scoobus said:

Warriors, Rockets, Blazers, Thunder, Jazz, Spurs, Nuggets, Wolves, Pelicans, Lakers

Who’s missing the playoffs here?

Wolves will find a way to implode.

Edited by Vanilla Guerrilla
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