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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (4 Viewers)

Dickies said:
Agreed, and I would expect people to counter-protest. I’m curious if the people in here calling the left the real bigots with respect to the straight pride parade would say the same about counter protestors at a KKK rally
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If there was a KKK rally and counter protesters showed up and started violence (especially against the police) and then congresswomen helped them financially there would be plenty of criticism. 

Obviously there are levels of all things though so I doubt if "real bigots" would be thrown around.

This does pose an interesting question though for how the current climate measures evils. 

If a counter-protester shows up and smashes a woman in the face with a baseball bat at a KKK rally who is the worse person? The KKK rallier or the baseball bat swinger? 

 
jon_mx said:
Probably the real reason.  If they dared call it a white-pride parade, they would be called white supremist.  If it was a anti-immigation or Pro-American parade, they would be called white nationalist/NAZIs.  The lesser of these is to call it a Straight Pride parade and just be accused of being homophobic.   
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White pride parade. I imagine Jimmy Buffet singing on a float, free McDonald’s, and the rockettes. 

 
Gr00vus said:
Seems in either case they're constructing persecution that isn't there - whatever their reason for doing so is.
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I think in #1, it CAN be an innocent mistake.  However, once explained, if they continue with the narrative (as has happened in most of the threads in this place) then I'd agree with this characterization 100%

 
Summer Wheat said:
big·ot·ry

noun

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions and views from oneself.
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Do you believe there is a difference between being a bigot towards someone based on attributes they can't control. e.g. race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. vs. Being a bigot towards someone based on a conscious choice or opinion they hold?

 
Sheriff Bart said:
Agree but if I find out there was a day where people were forced to make love to someone of a different race, with a different sexual orientation, from another country, I'm going to be pissed. 
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If this comes to pass I hope I get a bisexual Thai female, or maybe a multiethnic Swedish nympho quadsexual gymnast chick. Sadly, with my luck I'd probably get an octogenarian Polish guy with psoriasis and a colostomy bag.

 
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parasaurolophus said:
If a counter-protester shows up and smashes a woman in the face with a baseball bat at a KKK rally who is the worse person? The KKK rallier or the baseball bat swinger? 
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Why can't they both simply be ####ty people?  I swear the comparison approach to the world is killing it.  All it does is allow us to set the bar lower and lower and lower.

 
jon_mx said:
Probably the real reason.  If they dared call it a white-pride parade, they would be called white supremist.  If it was a anti-immigation or Pro-American parade, they would be called white nationalist/NAZIs.  The lesser of these is to call it a Straight Pride parade and just be accused of being homophobic.   
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1. Aren't these the people that tell everyone to toughen up and stop being so oversensitive and worried about name-calling and microaggressions?  Totally changing the name of your rally because you're worried that someone might call you names doesn't seem very tough to me. Seems to go against the entire principle of a "pride" march, to be honest.

2. I'm fairly certain that you can have a pro-America parade without being called a white nationalist or Nazi. There's thousands of them every July 4th and hundreds more across the calendar.

3. If you have an anti-immigration parade, it's not unfair to call someone a white nationalist.  That's literally what it means to be a white nationalist in America. in 2019. Virtually all immigration in 2019 is from non-white countries, and there's no other valid reason to oppose it.  Perhaps you meant an anti-illegal immigration rally, but since that wouldn't be all that controversial I don't see why they'd hide it behind homophobia.

 
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The Commish said:
Why can't they both simply be ####ty people?  I swear the comparison approach to the world is killing it.  All it does is allow us to set the bar lower and lower and lower.
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They are. 

But obviously our society has always differentiated levels, for all things. That's why the criminal justice system doesn't just have ####ty, or not ####ty, instead of guilty and not guilty. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
They are. 

But obviously our society has always differentiated levels, for all things. That's why the criminal justice system doesn't just have ####ty, or not ####ty, instead of guilty and not guilty. 
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Disagree....there was a time, not too long ago, no one would have asked this question because the answer was obvious.  This has been something I've been observing for quite a while now as the country fractures in half, so you certainly aren't the first one I've seen ask a question like this.  Your question just happened to be the one I decided to respond to after seeing this ever growing problem. 

 
The Commish said:
Disagree....there was a time, not too long ago, no one would have asked this question because the answer was obvious.  This has been something I've been observing for quite a while now as the country fractures in half, so you certainly aren't the first one I've seen ask a question like this.  Your question just happened to be the one I decided to respond to after seeing this ever growing problem. 
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I am not sure if we agree or disagree here. 98% confused 2% excited. 

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Sheriff Bart said:
Agree but if I find out there was a day where people were forced to make love to someone of a different race, with a different sexual orientation, from another country, I'm going to be pissed. 
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If this comes to pass I hope I get a bisexual Thai female, or maybe a multiethnic Swedish nympho quadsexual gymnast chick. Sadly, with my luck I'd probably get an octogenarian Polish guy with psoriasis and a colostomy bag.
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:hifive:   IN!!!!11!!!!

 
eurotrashman said:
Do you believe there is a difference between being a bigot towards someone based on attributes they can't control. e.g. race, ethnicity, nationality, etc. vs. Being a bigot towards someone based on a conscious choice or opinion they hold?
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Someone was talking about the definition of bigotry.  So I looked it up and posted the definition.  It did not come with any clauses. I guess that would have to be a personal decision for people to make.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I am not sure if we agree or disagree here. 98% confused 2% excited. 
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It seemed like you were saying people have always made these sort of specific distinctions.  I disagree with that.  There was a time where both were obviously ####ty people and the question would have never been posed.  Today, that sort of question of obviousness comes up often as if people really aren't sure.  If you were being rhetorical and/or weren't trying to make an honest distinction, then I misunderstood...apologies.

 
Summer Wheat said:
Someone was talking about the definition of bigotry.  So I looked it up and posted the definition.  It did not come with any clauses. I guess that would have to be a personal decision for people to make.
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OK.

 
Dickies said:
Nah, he’s just repeating conservative radio. Levin and Limbaugh have been pushing the idea that the top three Dem candidates are white people attacking white people
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I would wager a million dollars you listened to as much and most likely much more conservative media than I have in the last decade.  I have no idea if Limbaugh is even still on the air.   But in this dip#### forum, that is all you got.  

 
jon_mx said:
I would wager a million dollars you listened to as much and most likely much more conservative media than I have in the last decade.  I have no idea if Limbaugh is even still on the air.   But in this dip#### forum, that is all you got.  
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Laying the foundation for more martyr shtick.  I find it interesting that you're in here complaining about the persecution of whites and heterosexuals while that drum is being beaten to death by the extreme right.  I thought you were above that.

 
jon_mx said:
Manufactured?  The hatred from the left of Trump and his supporters is on clear display every night on the news and from the entertainment world.  
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Before I go here do you mean "hatred from the left" meaning everything to the left of this X <------------------X-----------------> where X is the middle or do you mean everyone one to the left of Trump as in <-----------------------------------X--> X is Trump and his supporters ??

 
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jon_mx said:
It is not just about gay pride, it is the whole package of things that they see the left as standing for.  It is about genderless bathrooms, not respecting the flag/anthem, toxic masculinity, women must be believed, ignoring immigration laws, sanctuary cities, differing adminssion standards, ect.  It is about being labled a bigot, homophobe, white supremist, hate-monger every night from the talking heads (and people on this forum for that matter) no matter what the debate topic is.  Their country, their race, their gender is under constant attack and instead of acknowledging it, they get mocked even more for feeling that way.    
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All of that was the message of the straight guy parade? Seems an odd choice for the name of the parade then.

 
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jon_mx said:
Manufactured?  The hatred from the left of Trump and his supporters is on clear display every night on the news and from the entertainment world.  
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Trump's earned all the ill will directed his way, and then some. His supporters maybe not so much, but they're still accountable for such a horrendously horrible human being holding office, so they've earned some criticism as well.

None of that, absolutely none of that, has anything to do with your complex about white christian males being somehow persecuted or "under attack" in the U.S. UNLESS, you're saying there is a racial bias element to Trump and his supporters. But I'm pretty sure you've been one of the loudest complainers that that is not the case, so that must not be what you're saying here - right?

 
whoknew said:
All of that was the message of the straight guy parade? Seems an odd choice for the name of the parade then.
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The little I read about it, seems there were pro-Trump, build the wall, patriotism signs. So it seem straight pride was not really the theme. 

 
Gr00vus said:
Trump's earned all the ill will directed his way, and then some. His supporters maybe not so much, but they're still accountable for such a horrendously horrible human being holding office, so they've earned some criticism as well.

None of that, absolutely none of that, has anything to do with your complex about white christian males being somehow persecuted or "under attack" in the U.S. UNLESS, you're saying there is a racial bias element to Trump and his supporters. But I'm pretty sure you've been one of the loudest complainers that that is not the case, so that must not be what you're saying here - right?
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My point is to describe how a lot of people think.  I hear it and understand it.   Whether they are right or not, is not the point.  They believe it and to some extent it is factually true.   So you can either listen or you can ignorantly just label them all hateful racists as is often done here.    

 
jon_mx said:
My point is to describe how a lot of people think.  I hear it and understand it.   Whether they are right or not, is not the point.  They believe it and to some extent it is factually true.   So you can either listen or you can ignorantly just label them all hateful racists as is often done here.    
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Well, now I just want to know.  What do you base this on?  What are the sources you hear this from and what % of "white christian males" fall into this category, and what is that based on?  I can see this being presented, by you, as anecdotal, but you've never framed any of your assertions that way.

 
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The Commish said:
Well, now I just want to know.  What do you base this on?  What are the sources you hear this from and what % of "white christian males" fall into this category, and what is that based on?  I can see this being presented, by you, as anecdotal, but you've never framed any of your assertions that way.
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I frame it that way most every time.  "Many people on the right feel" or something to that effect.  

 
I base it on what people say and listening to them and believing them.  I do not base it on dog whistles or projecting crap which is not there to score cheap points and to belittle my opponents to show how superior I am as is done in this forum.  

 
jon_mx said:
The Commish said:
Well, now I just want to know.  What do you base this on?  What are the sources you hear this from and what % of "white christian males" fall into this category, and what is that based on?  I can see this being presented, by you, as anecdotal, but you've never framed any of your assertions that way.
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I frame it that way most every time.  "Many people on the right feel" or something to that effect.  
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I know you do and it just occurred to me that you never give the reasons/sources for why you say those things, which is what I asked you.  What do you typically base those sorts of statements on?  Feeling?  Some sort of statistic?  A study of some sort?  What?

 
jon_mx said:
I base it on what people say and listening to them and believing them.  I do not base it on dog whistles or projecting crap which is not there to score cheap points and to belittle my opponents to show how superior I am as is done in this forum.  
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Should have kept reading before I responded....so your anecdotes then?

 
jon_mx said:
My point is to describe how a lot of people think.  I hear it and understand it.   Whether they are right or not, is not the point.  They believe it and to some extent it is factually true.   So you can either listen or you can ignorantly just label them all hateful racists as is often done here.    
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You're engaging in the exact same behavior you're complaining about.

Maybe you know how some people think - you haven't really given details on how you get to that. But you don't know how "a lot of people" think, and you routinely ascribe motives and sentiments to "the left" and "liberals" that not everyone affiliated with those groups hold.

 
TobiasFunke said:
This seems like a great opportunity to educate us and to build some bridges, then. Please explain to those of us who don't get it why white people "really feel belittled and attacked" by gay pride parades, which are the obvious counterpoint to this straight pride parade. I think it would be great if you could explain exactly what they feel and why instead of just saying that they do.
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TobiasFunke said:
Sorry, but I'm having trouble connecting the dots from "I oppose sanctuary cities," or "I am tired of people not respecting the flag and anthem," or "I oppose affirmative action" to "I want to march through the streets to declare my pride in being straight."   Can you walk me through that one? 

Seems to me that if you wanted to, say, articulate your opposition to certain immigration policies, you'd be better off organizing a march focused on immigration policies :shrug:
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fatguyinalittlecoat said:
OK, so it seems like if these people feel marginalized, it's not because they are straight or white or male, it's because they believe in unpopular ideas.  To me that seems very different.
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TobiasFunke said:
1. Aren't these the people that tell everyone to toughen up and stop being so oversensitive and worried about name-calling and microaggressions?  Totally changing the name of your rally because you're worried that someone might call you names doesn't seem very tough to me. Seems to go against the entire principle of a "pride" march, to be honest.

2. I'm fairly certain that you can have a pro-America parade without being called a white nationalist or Nazi. There's thousands of them every July 4th and hundreds more across the calendar.

3. If you have an anti-immigration parade, it's not unfair to call someone a white nationalist.  That's literally what it means to be a white nationalist in America. in 2019. Virtually all immigration in 2019 is from non-white countries, and there's no other valid reason to oppose it.  Perhaps you meant an anti-illegal immigration rally, but since that wouldn't be all that controversial I don't see why they'd hide it behind homophobia.
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The Commish said:
Before I go here do you mean "hatred from the left" meaning everything to the left of this X <------------------X-----------------> where X is the middle or do you mean everyone one to the left of Trump as in <-----------------------------------X--> X is Trump and his supporters ??
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The Commish said:
Should have kept reading before I responded....so your anecdotes then?
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Some points/questions unaddressed in any sort of meaningful way if you get bored.

 
SHIZNITTTT said:
Ocasio-Cortez to Crenshaw: 'Why on earth' would you lend your handgun to friends?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/459889-ocasio-cortez-slams-crenshaw-for-saying-he-lets-his-friends-borrow-his-handgun
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The people you’re giving a gun to have likely abused their spouse or have a violent criminal record, & you may not know it. Why on earth would you do that?

I can see why she might not think that’s a good idea, but then she goes right off the deep end.

 
jonessed said:
The people you’re giving a gun to have likely abused their spouse or have a violent criminal record, & you may not know it. Why on earth would you do that?

I can see why she might not think that’s a good idea, but then she goes right off the deep end.
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His comments are so dumb i have no problems with her saying that. I cant for the life of me imagine why else a universal background check law would affect his gun lending. Couldnt he just background check them before lending it to them? Is gun lending really a thing for self defense? Sounds totally made up.

 
parasaurolophus said:
His comments are so dumb i have no problems with her saying that. I cant for the life of me imagine why else a universal background check law would affect his gun lending. Couldnt he just background check them before lending it to them? Is gun lending really a thing for self defense? Sounds totally made up.
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Seems like that might include taking a friend to a gun range and letting them shoot.  Technically, you have loaned them the gun for that period.

 
The third season of Stranger Things already addressed the Dan Crenshaw / AOC back-and-forth:

This interminable bickering was amusing at first but it’s getting very stale and we’ve still got a long drive ahead of us. Why don’t you two cut the horse#### and get to the part where you admit your sexual feelings for one another?
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jonessed said:
Seems like that might include taking a friend to a gun range and letting them shoot.  Technically, you have loaned them the gun for that period.
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I have very little knowledge about this subject but don't shooting ranges often let you rent guns from them to shoot?

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
I'll defer to your expertise.  I'm pretty sure you can rent guns at some ranges but I have no idea how widespread the practice is.
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I imagine it depends on the state/county and the amount of liability a range wishes to take on.  I’ve only been to three ranges and they were all in CA.  There were no gun rental options that I was aware of and they were not the size of range I expect would take on that liability.

 
I think this is a good opportunity for those of you that are part of gun culture to teach those of us that aren't.  Do Crenshaw's points seem valid to you?  How often would a friend lend a gun to another friend that does not have guns of his own and therefore had never been through a background check?  It feels like a stretch to me but as noted above, I don't know anything about guns.

 
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