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zed2283

Chris Warren III, RB (OAK)

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I think people are paying attention because the LVRs don't have anyone else who might be the lead back besides Crowell or a re-signed downslope Lynch or Martin. None of those should be hard to pass. If they draft a guy early that might take over, he becomes the heir apparent. If they don't pick a RB until the 4th round or later,  I think that says they want to see what CWIII brings as the likely starter. That's well worth a roster spot in most formats. 

 

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9 hours ago, Catbird said:

I think people are paying attention because the LVRs don't have anyone else who might be the lead back besides Crowell or a re-signed downslope Lynch or Martin. None of those should be hard to pass. If they draft a guy early that might take over, he becomes the heir apparent. If they don't pick a RB until the 4th round or later,  I think that says they want to see what CWIII brings as the likely starter. That's well worth a roster spot in most formats. 

 

Definitely worth the roster spot to see how it plays out, if you have room. I think Crowell starts if they don't draft a RB until the 4th, though. Unless Warren totally lights it up, which is possible. But Gruden so far would seem to be obsessed with veterans. And I think Crowell is quite a bit better than most of the fantasy world gives him credit for. I'm not as convinced as everyone that the Raiders draft a RB early, one who can immediately be penciled in as the likely starter. We'll find out soon enough, but if I'm right, then I think Crowell is the guy. But, Warren has a clear path to that role himself in such a scenario and is therefore worth the roll of the dice to hold for now. 

Edited by barackdhouse
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3 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Saw that report, and it's understandable he gained weight trying to stay off a repaired knee. 270 is concerning for an already big back, but reports from offseason workouts is that he's already slimmed down (I can't find a good source for current weight). It's a concern if he can't slim down, but I don't have that concern given circumstance that led to weight gain (rehabbing a surgically repaired knee as opposed to, say, an Eddy Lacy-like buffet fixation), and that it's not unheard of for players to take off about 15 lbs from training camp alone.

3 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Why exactly are people excited about a big slow guy who didn't do jack in college? He looks like a FB on paper. 

You should watch more preseason. He literally tore other teams to shreds last year before blowing out his knee. Granted, he was facing 2s and 3s, and needs to prove himself against the starters. But in addition to showing Beastmode-esque power (running through faces, running with violence, dragging multiple tacklers forward, always falling forward) he also showed impressive vision through interior holes and even good speed to get to the outside and around corners, where his momentum allows him to flatten CBs, safeties, even some LBs.

He was the best runner in the preseason from a yardage perspective by a lot (~70 yards more than the next RB), and clearly the best rookie in terms of yards and YPC. He 100% passed my eye test with flying colors -- consistently in every preseason game.

I think he has the tools to be a clear 2 down back to be spelled by Richard on 3rd down passing situation (though Warren showed good hands in college) and I am high on him as a super sleeper coming into this season. Even if the Raiders draft a back in the early rounds, I think Warren has the potential to become the Raiders primary back right out of the gate this year. With potentially a beefed up line and a more dynamic offense, there is huge potential value here given where Warren might be currently falling in dynasty or redraft. 

Talent + opportunity = flyer value. 

We'll see.

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16 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Saw that report, and it's understandable he gained weight trying to stay off a repaired knee. 270 is concerning for an already big back, but reports from offseason workouts is that he's already slimmed down (I can't find a good source for current weight). It's a concern if he can't slim down, but I don't have that concern given circumstance that led to weight gain (rehabbing a surgically repaired knee as opposed to, say, an Eddy Lacy-like buffet fixation), and that it's not unheard of for players to take off about 15 lbs from training camp alone.

You should watch more preseason. He literally tore other teams to shreds last year before blowing out his knee. Granted, he was facing 2s and 3s, and needs to prove himself against the starters. But in addition to showing Beastmode-esque power (running through faces, running with violence, dragging multiple tacklers forward, always falling forward) he also showed impressive vision through interior holes and even good speed to get to the outside and around corners, where his momentum allows him to flatten CBs, safeties, even some LBs.

He was the best runner in the preseason from a yardage perspective by a lot (~70 yards more than the next RB), and clearly the best rookie in terms of yards and YPC. He 100% passed my eye test with flying colors -- consistently in every preseason game.

I think he has the tools to be a clear 2 down back to be spelled by Richard on 3rd down passing situation (though Warren showed good hands in college) and I am high on him as a super sleeper coming into this season. Even if the Raiders draft a back in the early rounds, I think Warren has the potential to become the Raiders primary back right out of the gate this year. With potentially a beefed up line and a more dynamic offense, there is huge potential value here given where Warren might be currently falling in dynasty or redraft. 

Talent + opportunity = flyer value. 

We'll see.

That is the part I'm not seeing. Beating up on back-ups and practice squad guys in preseason doesn't make up for his poor athletic profile and total lack of college production. Big picture, he looks like a nothing. I get he is free so it's not costing much but I would take a flyer somewhere else. 

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This weird formatting error that happens sometimes is so annoying, sorry about that guys. When it happens, it doesn't allow you to edit the post either. 

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

That is the part I'm not seeing. Beating up on back-ups and practice squad guys in preseason doesn't make up for his poor athletic profile and total lack of college production. Big picture, he looks like a nothing. I get he is free so it's not costing much but I would take a flyer somewhere else. 

And what a player may look like on paper in terms of his profile, or his college production, can sometimes be meaningless on the pro field.

Warren Moon, Clay Matthews, Wayne Chrebet, CJ Anderson, Matt Cassell, Sam Shields -- all were not stellar college producers but were way more successful in the NFL. Superstars come from D3 schools who might lack production of their D1 powerhouse football program counterparts.

I think I caveated my view on Warren sufficiently -- he has to prove himself when games counts against true starters. He has to beat out competition from a more polished, experienced starter in Crowell.

But he passed my eye test, period. He looks like the real deal -- talent and ability. And his path to being a productive NFL and fantasy contributor are far from insurmountable.

That makes great flyer material for me.

We'll see.

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16 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

And what a player may look like on paper in terms of his profile, or his college production, can sometimes be meaningless on the pro field.

Warren Moon, Clay Matthews, Wayne Chrebet, CJ Anderson, Matt Cassell, Sam Shields -- all were not stellar college producers but were way more successful in the NFL. Superstars come from D3 schools who might lack production of their D1 powerhouse football program counterparts.

I think I caveated my view on Warren sufficiently -- he has to prove himself when games counts against true starters. He has to beat out competition from a more polished, experienced starter in Crowell.

But he passed my eye test, period. He looks like the real deal -- talent and ability. And his path to being a productive NFL and fantasy contributor are far from insurmountable.

That makes great flyer material for me.

We'll see.

Chrebet is in the Hofstra HOF. He broke several Hofstra football records. Moon was at least a starting QB for a few years in Washington, won a Rose Bowl, but still had to prove himself with several years of MVP play in the CFL, Clay Matthews tested great at the combine, was a multi-year starter on a loaded USC defense and was a 1st round pick in the NFL draft. Shields had a few years of good WR play before switching to CB. He ran a 4.3 40 and 39 inch vert. I don't see what any of those have to do with a really big slow RB who never had even 500 yards rushing in a season in college. 

CJ Anderson is a pretty fair comp. 

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I am not saying he is totally worthless. Just saying that there may be better on waivers or there will be rookies entering in the draft who might be more deserving of a roster spot. 

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2 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I am not saying he is totally worthless. Just saying that there may be better on waivers or there will be rookies entering in the draft who might be more deserving of a roster spot. 

I don't see Warren outplaying Crowell.  

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I think people are over-emphasizing the possible impact of RB's in the 2019 draft to backfield all across the NFL.

Would anyone really be shocked if there was ONE RB taken in the first two rounds of the draft..... presumably Jacobs? And Jacobs was only a RBBC on his own college team. Henderson or Harris might sneak into the second round I guess. I just don't see a three down back in this draft and most of these rookies will just be fighting for a role. Other than Sanders and Montgomery most of the rest of the pack might just be fighting for roster spots. A lot of injury concerns and non-athletic guys in this RB class.

The bigger danger to Warren would be OAK trading for a Duke Johnson or a Gio Bernard potentially pushing him off the roster. Gruden likes his vets and it would make sense for those teams to find younger/cheaper backups to obvious starters.

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4 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Chrebet is in the Hofstra HOF. He broke several Hofstra football records. Moon was at least a starting QB for a few years in Washington, won a Rose Bowl, but still had to prove himself with several years of MVP play in the CFL, Clay Matthews tested great at the combine, was a multi-year starter on a loaded USC defense and was a 1st round pick in the NFL draft. Shields had a few years of good WR play before switching to CB. He ran a 4.3 40 and 39 inch vert. I don't see what any of those have to do with a really big slow RB who never had even 500 yards rushing in a season in college. 

CJ Anderson is a pretty fair comp. 

Splitting some subjective hairs here, but:

  • breaking Hofstra records isn't the same as smashing records or makiung the HOF at Alabama or the U. And for all his collegiate "success," he was undrafted, and didn't even make the cut at CFL tryouts. Guy had to walk on to the Jets, who just happened to train at Hofstra.
  • Moon had trouble getting onto a 4-year college squad, then we he finally did, went 11-11 in his first two years as a starter at U of Wash. His standout outlier was the Rose Bowl win, but not sure you can point to anything else in his collegiate career that stood out in terms of production. He went unselected in the NFL draft, and he had to win multiple championships in the CFL before any NFL team called.
  • Clay Matthews had to walk on to USC under a non-athletic scholarship, and only played on the scout team at first, and was only granted a scholarship and began making starts in his junior year. To your point, it may have been his competition on a stacked team, and he did shine in his last few years. But let's not pretend Green Bay didn't shock everyone -- and were widely panned by analysts -- for trading a second and two third round picks to the Pats for Matthews and a fifth rounder. This one looks brilliant in hindsight, sure, but at the time, Matthews' specific lack of production/limited playing time (hearkening back to the original point about lack of college production @Ilov80s made against Warren) was a huge risk.
  • I can concede Shields was good...as a WR -- think he was an honorable mention All-American at Miami, but only started 7 games his first year, and 5 his sophopmore year, so it's not as if he was a blue chip. He went undrafted but got picked up on a minimum UDFA deal by the Packers as a nickle/dime.

Point being I think it's fair to say that the lack of production these guys had in college wasn't indicative of how they would fare in the pros.

And if you are talking from a skill perspective, you can't ignore Warren was a high-school All American, set the single game freshman rushing record his freshman year at Texas, and was limited in playing tme by being moved to halfback, having a knee injury that put him out for the season, then had to play behind D'Onta Freeman and Jonathan Gray. When starting his senior year, he was first team All State going 2,329 yards and 34 TDs. 

I know I am out on a limb by myself on being high on Warren. But others have risen to the occasion with similar lack of college produciton. And lack of production doesn't always equate to lack of talent.

We'll see.

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1 hour ago, DocHolliday said:

I don't see Warren outplaying Crowell.  

This is where I'm out on the limb.

I imagine Crowell getting the starting job is the most likely. But, based on what I saw him being capable of in preseason last year, I can also see Warren outperforming on his touches and taking the job away. It's not as if Crow is super special.

 

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I think people are over-emphasizing the possible impact of RB's in the 2019 draft to backfield all across the NFL.

Would anyone really be shocked if there was ONE RB taken in the first two rounds of the draft..... presumably Jacobs? And Jacobs was only a RBBC on his own college team. Henderson or Harris might sneak into the second round I guess. I just don't see a three down back in this draft and most of these rookies will just be fighting for a role. Other than Sanders and Montgomery most of the rest of the pack might just be fighting for roster spots. A lot of injury concerns and non-athletic guys in this RB class.

The bigger danger to Warren would be OAK trading for a Duke Johnson or a Gio Bernard potentially pushing him off the roster. Gruden likes his vets and it would make sense for those teams to find younger/cheaper backups to obvious starters.

This is what I have been saying. Not only in terms of depth of talent in the draft, but in terms of job openings across the NFL. I really think that after this weekend there will be at least a couple guys out of Mike Davis, Lamar Miller, Isaiah Crowell, and Peyton Barber that will be starters this year. I'm sort of assuming Aaron Jones, Damien Williams and Marlon Mack are on that list already, but they are already somewhat highly valued. At least compared to the other names. But honestly how many of those names I listed are going to be replaced by someone in this draft? 

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1 minute ago, barackdhouse said:

This is what I have been saying. Not only in terms of depth of talent in the draft, but in terms of job openings across the NFL. I really think that after this weekend there will be at least a couple guys out of Mike Davis, Lamar Miller, Isaiah Crowell, and Peyton Barber that will be starters this year. I'm sort of assuming Aaron Jones, Damien Williams and Marlon Mack are on that list already, but they are already somewhat highly valued. At least compared to the other names. But honestly how many of those names I listed are going to be replaced by someone in this draft? 

Maybe it's because it's a FF message board and a dynasty board at this time of year on top of that. In dynasty players are drawn to rookie RB's like a moth to flame so everyone thinks the RB's in this class are better than they really are because they have a #3 next to their name. I would say the over/under on ANY of those guys losing their starting job in week #1 to a rookie is 0.5 and I would vote on the under. Really, Barber and Jones were the only two that weren't brought in by the current coach. 

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3 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

I think people are over-emphasizing the possible impact of RB's in the 2019 draft to backfield all across the NFL.

Would anyone really be shocked if there was ONE RB taken in the first two rounds of the draft..... presumably Jacobs? And Jacobs was only a RBBC on his own college team. Henderson or Harris might sneak into the second round I guess. I just don't see a three down back in this draft and most of these rookies will just be fighting for a role. Other than Sanders and Montgomery most of the rest of the pack might just be fighting for roster spots. A lot of injury concerns and non-athletic guys in this RB class.

The bigger danger to Warren would be OAK trading for a Duke Johnson or a Gio Bernard potentially pushing him off the roster. Gruden likes his vets and it would make sense for those teams to find younger/cheaper backups to obvious starters.

I agree with you that this RB class isn’t that good and mostly has committee backs but if Chris Warren was in this class, he be rated about the same as last year. Super low end undrafted guy. 

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21 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I agree with you that this RB class isn’t that good and mostly has committee backs but if Chris Warren was in this class, he be rated about the same as last year. Super low end undrafted guy. 

I understand both everything you and Stompin' Tom are saying back-and forth, but I have to admit that I'm high on Warren like I was high on Alfred Morris watching preseason that one year he wound up going for around 1,200 yards and subsequently followed it up with two above-average to average years. That said, Warren looked even better than Alfred did that preseason.

I think Warren III deserves a shot to at least make an NFL team, never mind have a real opportunity. Crowell is totally JAG (I hate that acronym, but it's perfect here). CW III is in a perfect situation.

 

Edited by rockaction
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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

I understand both everything you and Stompin' Tom are saying back-and forth, but I have to admit that I'm high on Warren like I was high on Alfred Morris watching preseason that one year he wound up going for around 1,200 yards and subsequently followed it up with two above-average to average years. That said, Warren looked even better than Alfred did that preseason.

I think Warren III deserves a shot to at least make an NFL team, never mind have a real opportunity. Crowell is totally JAG (I hate that acronym, but it's perfect here). CW III is in a perfect situation.

 

Good comp. It’s hard to find a comp for Warren too. He’s built like a FB. Not many 240 pound backs in the league anymore.

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1 hour ago, zamboni said:

That takes care of that with the Jacobs pick.

Warren is still the backup.  Richard isn't built for feature workload so Warren still will get his share of carries in pre-season and if Jacobs doesn't come along quick enough.  This doesn't change my opinion on Warren.  

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7 hours ago, Sarlakticacid said:

Is this the Garner Wheatley combo of old?

Crowell/Jacobs?   

I think eventually Jacobs takes over 60% of the work.  

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Well that was short-lived. He's lucky if he makes the team now. Richard/Crowell/Jacobs/etc. 

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Probably.  But on the flip-side, if he does make the team he will have beaten some decent competition.  Even then he’ll probably be more fun to watch in real life as a big rig than a useful fantasy producer.

Have him at the end of two rosters but will drop easily if necessary.

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:kicksrock:

Well that's a cold slap to the groin. The limb I was on just broke.

I also hope they find a way to keep Warren, I really love watching the guy run. If anything, RB depth is a gigantic need in the NFL, and we should be carrying four without question.

From a depth perspective, and trying to remove my rose-colored Warren glasses, makes more sense to me to shed DeAndre Washington before Warren given the overlap in skill set Washington has with Richard, and the fact that he hasn't really stood out consistently. Jacobs has solid pass catching ability as well, so what specifically does Washington add to the squad?

Also a chance we can retain Warren by shuffling the special teams duties of Nick Nelson as a backup returner. Dwayne Harris was clearly a solid returner, so he's the main guy, but not sure we need Nelson -- especially if the Raider take a CB with their early 2nd round pick.

Washington's skills seems like a much better option in ST, but maybe Warren might be utilized there as a way to keep him on. Have no idea if he's ever done PR/KR duties before.

I'm clearly reaching.

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2 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

:kicksrock:

Well that's a cold slap to the groin. The limb I was on just broke.

I also hope they find a way to keep Warren, I really love watching the guy run. If anything, RB depth is a gigantic need in the NFL, and we should be carrying four without question.

From a depth perspective, and trying to remove my rose-colored Warren glasses, makes more sense to me to shed DeAndre Washington before Warren given the overlap in skill set Washington has with Richard, and the fact that he hasn't really stood out consistently. Jacobs has solid pass catching ability as well, so what specifically does Washington add to the squad?

Also a chance we can retain Warren by shuffling the special teams duties of Nick Nelson as a backup returner. Dwayne Harris was clearly a solid returner, so he's the main guy, but not sure we need Nelson -- especially if the Raider take a CB with their early 2nd round pick.

Washington's skills seems like a much better option in ST, but maybe Warren might be utilized there as a way to keep him on. Have no idea if he's ever done PR/KR duties before.

I'm clearly reaching.

Keeping Warren over Washington makes sense.  

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6 minutes ago, JoeSteeler said:

Crowell tore his achilles on Monday. Is CW3 now the handcuff?

yep

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Hear that Chris? That's opportunity knocking....

I never want a guy I'm high on to gain opportunity at the expense of another player -- I'd way more rather have a healthy Crowell as suddenly the Raider backfield is shallower and much more untested if they have to rely on Jacobs and Warren in addition to vets Richard and Washington. 

If there is reasonable cap space after signing rookies, would imagine the Raiders might still look to the RB FA pool to at least build depth at a pretty important NFL position.

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4 hours ago, JoeSteeler said:

Crowell tore his achilles on Monday. Is CW3 now the handcuff? 

He is until they sign Ajayi

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1 minute ago, Craig_MiamiFL said:

Raiders re-sign Doug Martin

 

an injury to a raiders rb was the only thing that would get dougie a job again.

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31 minutes ago, beef said:

an injury to a raiders rb was the only thing that would get dougie a job again.

I tend to agree that Martin was at the tail end of a less-than-illustirous career, but he was actually somewhat productive when Lynch went down.

Not a ringing endorsement for sure, and I don't think he can ever be a feature back anywhere, but I think he can contribute to the right squad at the right time. 

Guess that's the Raiders right now to add depth. I'm good with it as we likely got that depth cheaply, but have to wonder how this affects Warren's ability to make a run at meaningful carries. And for the Raiders, what we might have paid for a guy who may provide more oomph to the offense (like Alex Collins. Ajayi, etc.).

 

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Quote

Scott Bair of NBC Sports Bay Area feels Chris Warren's roster spot is "up in the air."

Bair considers Josh Jacobs, Doug Martin and Jalen Richard roster locks, leaving DeAndre Washington and Warren to compete for the final backfield slot in Oakland. Warren, who spent his rookie year on injured reserve following knee surgery, gives the Raiders' a power component—Bair estimated his weight at a hulking 260 pounds—though his roster chances will likely come down to how he fares in pass protection. If you're looking to pursue a Raiders back in fantasy this year, Jacobs and Richard are the names to target.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Bay Area

Jul 1, 2019, 9:19 AM ET

 

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13 hours ago, Faust said:

Bair considers Josh Jacobs, Doug Martin and Jalen Richard roster locks, leaving DeAndre Washington and Warren to compete for the final backfield slot in Oakland. 

Not really a stretch, but I think if (a big if) Warren shines like he did last preseason, seems like he could pass Doug Martin and put Muscle Hamster or Washington on the bubble.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but Raiders have a potential great all-rounder in Jacobs, and a fantastic passing back in Richard, so while they could do without Washington's skill set, they still need the Wheatley/Crockett N/S Thunder role.

Both Martin and Warren can bring it in this role, but where Martin is 5'9 220 -- and 30 years old -- Warren is 6'2 246...and is 23.

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If Warren can show out then it makes great financial sense to keep him over Martin but we all know how Gruden likes his vets. It's all going to come down to camp. Wouldn't write him off yet.

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:14 PM, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Not really a stretch, but I think if (a big if) Warren shines like he did last preseason, seems like he could pass Doug Martin and put Muscle Hamster or Washington on the bubble.

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but Raiders have a potential great all-rounder in Jacobs, and a fantastic passing back in Richard, so while they could do without Washington's skill set, they still need the Wheatley/Crockett N/S Thunder role.

Both Martin and Warren can bring it in this role, but where Martin is 5'9 220 -- and 30 years old -- Warren is 6'2 246...and is 23.

Seems like a no brainer choice to me when Martin is washed.  He's a carbon copy of Jacobs (although less of a receiver) for a 1 for 1 replacement if the starter goes down.  Plus Washington being there for work as well makes it an easy choice in my head.  

That said Gruden fly's by his own rules and I have no clue what kind of locker room/team person either guy is so that would weigh on that decision.  Still think it's not much of a choice.  

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2 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Seems like a no brainer choice to me when Martin is washed.  He's a carbon copy of Jacobs (although less of a receiver) for a 1 for 1 replacement if the starter goes down.  Plus Washington being there for work as well makes it an easy choice in my head.  

That said Gruden fly's by his own rules and I have no clue what kind of locker room/team person either guy is so that would weigh on that decision.  Still think it's not much of a choice.  

To be clear, I don't think Martin is completely washed, and likely neither does Gruden -- he's not what he was, for sure, but the guy was the team's leading by a big margin last year with 723 yards (next closest was Lynch at 376) and had a 4.2 ypr average which is solid. Gruden likely wants Martin as a thumper who can stay in on passing downs, as he has veteran experience and did well (or as well as a back could on a 4 win, pass-first, always-behind-in-score, horrendous D and suspect O-Line offense).

I don't know about what kind of back Jacobs will be in the NFL (and given a relatively light workload in college, I don't think anyone truly does) but I think it's fair to say that Jacobs, like Martin out the draft, is seen as well-rounded and the two have similar skill-sets, and has value in an offense if it is predicated on using a primary back in all phases of the game. Makes Washington even more dispensable, IMO -- he can run hard, too, but I think he's just hasn't done enough with his opportunities. 

 If I was Gruden I'd try to keep 4 backs on the roster -- Jacobs, Martin, Richard, and Martin -- and shed Washington given that his skill maps exactly to Richards (and he's slightly less effective than Richard) and just get lighter elsewhere (WR, CB, a hard choice between Keith Smith and Alec Ingold at FB).

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I feel like Warren has show flashes of brilliance that Washington really hasn’t. And I think on any other team Dougie would be out but Gruden does seem to have a soft spot for the guy. Unless they’re also looking to have somewhat of a mentor for Jacobs. Hard to say. But strictly from an on the field standpoint I can’t see why they wouldn’t find a way to keep Warren. 

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On 7/5/2019 at 2:17 AM, Elevencents said:

I feel like Warren has show flashes of brilliance that Washington really hasn’t. And I think on any other team Dougie would be out but Gruden does seem to have a soft spot for the guy. Unless they’re also looking to have somewhat of a mentor for Jacobs. Hard to say. But strictly from an on the field standpoint I can’t see why they wouldn’t find a way to keep Warren. 

I think Gruden wants his Thunder/Lightning combo back. Jacobs definitely gives him that Kaufman/Garner role in an every-down back. Martin is known for his hard-running style, so Gruden will want to keep him this year for the tough N/S runs. Warren, being younger, bigger, and from what I saw last year, tougher, is likely the most likely guy to replace Martin in this role at some point this year -- if he can stay consistent and healthy.

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I get what STC is saying in regards to the RB play styles and that Warren could bring  a different element to the offense than the other RB do.

That is entirely dependent on Warren actually playing well.

Richard and Washington had significant special teams snaps last season and unless Warren is good at blocking I don't see how he would be a better option. Both of these guys are quality back up RB who can catch the ball and contribute on offense as well. I am not really seeing what Martin brings to the team that these two guys don't.

The special teams will be important as far as who makes the final team after camp and preseason. Unless Warren can show he deserves a complimentary power (short yardage?) type role in the offense, I do not really see him beating out the other RB on special teams.

Pretty sure Warren becomes practice squad.

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5 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

I get what STC is saying in regards to the RB play styles and that Warren could bring  a different element to the offense than the other RB do.

That is entirely dependent on Warren actually playing well.

Richard and Washington had significant special teams snaps last season and unless Warren is good at blocking I don't see how he would be a better option. Both of these guys are quality back up RB who can catch the ball and contribute on offense as well. I am not really seeing what Martin brings to the team that these two guys don't.

The special teams will be important as far as who makes the final team after camp and preseason. Unless Warren can show he deserves a complimentary power (short yardage?) type role in the offense, I do not really see him beating out the other RB on special teams.

Pretty sure Warren becomes practice squad.

The bolded is, of course, the rub. If he plays through camp and preseason the way he did last year, will definitely force a hard decision. 

Special teams is certainly an area where Washington could be a better fit than Martin in terms of receiving, but I think WR Dwayne Harris and CB Nick Nelson are actually slotted as the primary P/K returners, which continues the trend of last year (Harris was primary returner for both Ks and Ps last year, spelled with WR Jordy Nelson and  Richard for PRs -- Washington wasn't featured in this role at all).

In terms of blocking, that was called out as a strength of Warren's out of college -- some snippets from draft profiles I could find:

"Possesses excellent vision as both a blocker and ball carrier."

"Blocking: When called upon to stonewall a defender, Warren used his power to lock and drive defenders always from the pocket. Regardless of opponent, Warren display great knee bend and above average hand placement. For Warren, blocking could gain him snaps at fullback."

Seems like Warren could handle ST coverage. Both FBs Keith Smith and Alec Ingold are also sound ST blockers, and can see a hard choice being made between them, potentially choosing one and using Warren as a potential back-up FB, ST, and contributing as short-yard RB/hammer runs. In this regard, Warren has much more fungibility than Washington in filling out the 53 man roster.

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8 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

I get what STC is saying in regards to the RB play styles and that Warren could bring  a different element to the offense than the other RB do.

That is entirely dependent on Warren actually playing well.

Richard and Washington had significant special teams snaps last season and unless Warren is good at blocking I don't see how he would be a better option. Both of these guys are quality back up RB who can catch the ball and contribute on offense as well. I am not really seeing what Martin brings to the team that these two guys don't.

The special teams will be important as far as who makes the final team after camp and preseason. Unless Warren can show he deserves a complimentary power (short yardage?) type role in the offense, I do not really see him beating out the other RB on special teams.

Pretty sure Warren becomes practice squad.

Would like to see the Raiders move on from Martin.   The team needs to build for the future.  

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4 hours ago, DocHolliday said:

Would like to see the Raiders move on from Martin.   The team needs to build for the future.  

Agreed. But Martin is the closest Raider RB in form and function to Jacobs. That and since Gruden seems eager to prove everyone wrong and himself right that Martin isn't washed up have me thinking Warren or Washington (or both) won't make the final 53.

 

13 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

I am not really seeing what [Warren] brings to the team that these two guys don't.

You wrote Martin, but pretty sure given the overall context you meant Warren.

What Warren brings that RichWash don't is pure unadulterated POWER. The two mighty mites aren't even close in that regard.

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16 minutes ago, LawFitz said:

Agreed. But Martin is the closest Raider RB in form and function to Jacobs. That and since Gruden seems eager to prove everyone wrong and himself right that Martin isn't washed up have me thinking Warren or Washington (or both) won't make the final 53..

I am not sure Gruden is hell-bent on using Martin come hell or high water, damn the torpedoes and anyone else who thinks Martin's best days are well behind him.

I think Gruden just likes having a power runner, and is more comfortable having the safety that comes with giving that job to a trusted vet, even if he is over the hill. Martin showed he could carry the load last year, so why shed him now and deplete depth -- at the position overall, and in the role of a power runner -- in favor for an unproven rookie (Warren or Jacobs for that matter). 

And I don't blame Gruden for wanting that safety one bit. Especially with Crowell going down. 

I think this squad and it's backfield decisions would have been MUCH different had Crowell not torn his Achilles in April. Washington, Warren, and Martin may have all been on the bubble. 

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There was zero reason for the Raiders to jettison a somewhat proven guy like Martin in the offseason.  If he gets massively outplayed during training camp, he's absolutely a cut candidate.

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