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Chemical X

Going paycheck to paycheck.......

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Just now, Keerock said:

And as alluded to, there are many reasons people have to live paycheck to paycheck.  It's not just those that are irresponsible with money.  I've made a good living, and have retirement accounts, etc. but medical expenses have killed my family recently.  Most liquid savings have been tapped.  If I lost my job I'd have to take early withdrawls from my 401K/IRAs.

I am familiar with your situation.  I think an issue we have as a country as well is that the majority of us are a devastating diagnosis away from ruin.

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2 minutes ago, Keerock said:

And as alluded to, there are many reasons people have to live paycheck to paycheck.  It's not just those that are irresponsible with money.  I've made a good living, and have retirement accounts, etc. but medical expenses have killed my family recently.  Most liquid savings have been tapped.  If I lost my job I'd have to take early withdrawls from my 401K/IRAs.

Again, I think this is the exception to the rule.

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13 hours ago, scorchy said:

I can only speak for the four or five 20-somethings who work for me, but I haven't seen that at all.  The girl who had to ask for a credit increase lives in an iffy area, brings her lunch everyday, and volunteers at a homeless shelter in her spare time.  Maybe it's a difference between folks who choose public health work in Baltimore vs. people who pick the financial sector in Manhattan?

My kid, at 19, has roughly double the savings of AOC.  We tend to look askance at younger generations as being different.  They're not.  Still the same percentage breakdown of great folks and idiots.

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1 minute ago, Sand said:

My kid, at 19, has roughly double the savings of AOC.  We tend to look askance at younger generations as being different.  They're not.  Still the same percentage breakdown of great folks and idiots.

What is AOC's savings? Did I miss that?

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1 minute ago, Keerock said:

And as alluded to, there are many reasons people have to live paycheck to paycheck.  It's not just those that are irresponsible with money.  I've made a good living, and have retirement accounts, etc. but medical expenses have killed my family recently.  Most liquid savings have been tapped.  If I lost my job I'd have to take early withdrawls from my 401K/IRAs.

Healthcare required not due to poor diet or poor personal decisions(smoking) is probably the best excuse for living paycheck to paycheck.

That being said, many stable professions provide good healthcare coverage.   

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1 minute ago, Chemical X said:

I am familiar with your situation.  I think an issue we have as a country as well is that the majority of us are a devastating diagnosis away from ruin.

Vast majority.  Like 90some%.  Reality is for most of us we cannot save with this in mind and there's nothing you can do to proactively change that either.  It's on us to be responsible enough to save for unexpected car/house repairs, temporary job loss, etc.  But a medical diagnosis?  Not worth the time, energy, and resources.  If you're one of the unlucky ones then you're sunk. 

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Just now, Sand said:

My kid, at 19, has roughly double the savings of AOC.  We tend to look askance at younger generations as being different.  They're not.  Still the same percentage breakdown of great folks and idiots.

You know, as you get older and understand life more, you begin to realize that they teach us a lot in schools, HS, college, but they don't teach a class on real world fiscal responsibility. 

It isn't sexy, but looking back, how much would a class on how to save, medical insurance, budgeting in college have helped us all?  To get my economics degree I took Marxism and China's economy as electives.  Surprisingly, I don't find these topics coming up much now.

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Just now, TripItUp said:

Healthcare required not due to poor diet or poor personal decisions(smoking) is probably the best excuse for living paycheck to paycheck.

That being said, many stable professions provide good healthcare coverage.   

My healthcare coverage is pretty good.  But it's high deductible and many cancer "treatments" required aren't covered by any health insurance.

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Just now, Keerock said:

My healthcare coverage is pretty good.  But it's high deductible and many cancer "treatments" required aren't covered by any health insurance.

Gotcha...sorry to hear bud. 

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Agree with others that those with exorbitant  healthcare costs probably account for a very small % of the people living paycheck to paycheck.  

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

I thought the max was $18.5k <50, with an extra 6k >50.  I m all about saving, but you should have some liquidity in case of emergency. 

Roth, HSA, 503b, all can consume pre-tax and post-tax $$$.  

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7 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

I am waiting for the "I have an allergy and need X dog". 

LOL - they ended up buying a soft coated Wheaton terrier for this reason exactly. 

Don't get me started on the puppy stores.  It's amazing how they attempt to justify the puppy mill/breeder at the store level. The video of facility was absolutely amazing.  All heated, tiled floors, etc.  Looked as sterile as a hospital operating room.

But when asked if you could contract said breeder directly, they go into the script of how they do not recommend that.  The breeders sell to the puppy stores, as they like their privacy, etc. 

 

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1 hour ago, belljr said:

I drove a 2003 Accord with 265000 miles on it to pay for college JERK

Ahhh - so you drove the fancy car.  I remember guys like you in college.

 

32 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

I thought the max was $18.5k <50, with an extra 6k >50.  I m all about saving, but you should have some liquidity in case of emergency. 

At 100k income you can pack away 18.5k 401k, 6k traditional IRA, 7k HSA, so 30k or so pre-tax monies.   

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18 minutes ago, Sand said:

I mean I suppose its good we have someone "in the struggle" repping the people. But it sounds like she is well above the struggle. Which is sad.

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41 minutes ago, eoMMan said:

I agree with you but if you are putting a ton in your 401k and have basically nothing liquid to survive missing a paycheck (or two), you are doing it wrong.  

The advice I’ve been given by multiple people is to have six months of living expenses saved before maxing out retirement and investment accounts.  And to get rid of all debt first.  

Many people have no idea how much they screw themselves running up credit card debt.   Or maybe they do and expect a bailout.  Whatever it is there’s a ton of irresponsible decisions made by a lot of folks. 

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14 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Many people have no idea how much they screw themselves running up credit card debt.   Or maybe they do and expect a bailout.  Whatever it is there’s a ton of irresponsible decisions made by a lot of folks. 

Or just file bankruptcy once a decade...

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41 minutes ago, Chemical X said:

You know, as you get older and understand life more, you begin to realize that they teach us a lot in schools, HS, college, but they don't teach a class on real world fiscal responsibility. 

It isn't sexy, but looking back, how much would a class on how to save, medical insurance, budgeting in college have helped us all?  To get my economics degree I took Marxism and China's economy as electives.  Surprisingly, I don't find these topics coming up much now.

For all of the flak they get, Boy Scouts of America does a good job with this. One Eagle required merit badge, Personal Finance, involves creating a budget. Another Eagle required MB , Family Life, involves reviewing the family's budget at a high level.

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27 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

The advice I’ve been given by multiple people is to have six months of living expenses saved before maxing out retirement and investment accounts.  And to get rid of all debt first.  

This subject always makes me laugh.  This advice while sound isn't practical for many.  Every situation is different, but the path from school to home ownership to kids to saving (or in some other order)...how long does that take?  In previous generations it was financially feasible to get to the last point in your 20's or early 30's (with good planning) before you make the big step professionally.  Now?  I don't think we have sufficient data to make an average road map and it's going to depend greatly market-to-market, but in most cases I don't think it's feasible without the big step professionally until at least deep into your 30's and later wouldn't surprise me.  And by then you're weighing your own savings vs. your kids future education costs.  Conventional wisdom is to save for yourself before your kid, but I sympathize with a parent looking at that sort of decision and opting not to be selfish.

I think this is a little too much whoa is me so it doesn't sit particularly well, but a friend of mine put this rather aptly recently.  (paraphrasing) I ask others who seem to be ahead how they got there and the answer is almost always 'someone in my family with a lot of money died' or they decided not to have kids.  It's hyperbolic and includes those same 75% of people that are irresponsible spenders, but the point is still a good one.  How can you finance it all?  Until you get to that point professionally, you can't.  So what's the first corner you are going to cut until you get there?  Probably savings.  

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

Agree with others that those with exorbitant  healthcare costs probably account for a very small % of the people living paycheck to paycheck.  

That would be my guess, too. The term "paycheck to paycheck" is used a lot now. As far as I know, it's not an official term with an official definition like we have with things like "poverty". If someone asked me if I live paycheck to paycheck, I might have to say yes but I think it's really unfair to minimum wage people with large health bills to label me the same way. They'd look at me with contempt if I complained about needing more money.

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25 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This subject always makes me laugh.  This advice while sound isn't practical for many.  Every situation is different, but the path from school to home ownership to kids to saving (or in some other order)...how long does that take?  In previous generations it was financially feasible to get to the last point in your 20's or early 30's (with good planning) before you make the big step professionally.  Now?  I don't think we have sufficient data to make an average road map and it's going to depend greatly market-to-market, but in most cases I don't think it's feasible without the big step professionally until at least deep into your 30's and later wouldn't surprise me.  And by then you're weighing your own savings vs. your kids future education costs.  Conventional wisdom is to save for yourself before your kid, but I sympathize with a parent looking at that sort of decision and opting not to be selfish.

I think this is a little too much whoa is me so it doesn't sit particularly well, but a friend of mine put this rather aptly recently.  (paraphrasing) I ask others who seem to be ahead how they got there and the answer is almost always 'someone in my family with a lot of money died' or they decided not to have kids.  It's hyperbolic and includes those same 75% of people that are irresponsible spenders, but the point is still a good one.  How can you finance it all?  Until you get to that point professionally, you can't.  So what's the first corner you are going to cut until you get there?  Probably savings.  

I spent less on clothes, vehicles, rental housing, entertainment, restaurants, furniture(things that depreciate) in my 20s...enabled me to have more savings than most.  :shrug:             Didn't have children or an expensive wife.  Zero help from my parents outside of modest bday and xmas gifts.

 

It can be done it just requires discipline and the ambition to land a solid career out of college/high school.  

 

Work ethic, common sense, discipline, ambition....things 95% of Americans don't have.

Edited by TripItUp

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1 minute ago, TripItUp said:

I spent less on clothes, vehicles, rental housing, entertainment, food in my 20s...enabled me to have more savings than most.  :shrug:Didn't have children or an expensive wife.  Zero help from my parents outside of modest bday and xmas gifts.

 

It can be done it just requires discipline and the ambition to land a solid career out of college/high school.

The bolded.  That seems to be a common theme with those that are in a good place financially.  Sure, like anything, children are a choice.  But in today's environment the vast majority of people are not in a financial position to consider it until sometime after they're considered 'at risk.'  Many do anyway, but the data suggests fiscal responsibility is playing at least some role.  If the trend continues...

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Another topic...educational loans.

 

I chose an in state university that was nearly free for me vs. going to expensive, more highly ranked out of state universities....no question it was the right choice fiscally.  

I see parents/kids dropping 50K a year on out of state tuition to schools that don't justify the price tag with their kids majoring in graphic design.   You just can't fix stupid.

 

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4 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

Another topic...educational loans.

 

I chose an in state university that was nearly free for me vs. going to expensive, more highly ranked out of state universities....no question it was the right choice fiscally.  

I see parents dropping 50K a year on out of state tuition to schools that don't justify the price tag with their kids majoring in graphic design.   You just can't fix stupid.

 

And they major in Art History and Creative Writing. Then complain they cant get a job....

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2 hours ago, Chemical X said:

I am a dog person and a rescue dog adopter.  Don't get me even started on this.  Buying a dog is lud-a-cris, spending 2k is idiotic, financing this is insane.

They are literally giving dogs away for free.   Yikes.

Not so funny recent story that seems applicable here...

I have a NextDoor account to keep up with stuff in my development, city, etc. Recently, a woman from a surrounding neighborhood created a post saying she had just moved to the area and was looking for help/free stuff to furnish her place. Said she needed pretty much everything from furniture to silverware to beds for her kids even. And people chipped in. Not even a couple months later, she created a new thread titled "Christmas Miracle" or something very similar. In this one, she said her kids had identified the type of puppy they wanted and she really wanted to get it for them but the problem was the breeder was in California and she didn't currently have the money to both buy the dog and have it flown to MN. She asked for people to help with the $. I just about fell out of my chair when I read that. People replied and called her out on it but in a much more polite way than I would have. Several people pointed out that she should probably focus on getting a bed for her kids before a pet. Others said a pet was a bad idea at this stage but (if her mind was made up) she should get a rescue. It was just unbelievable to me that someone who had just thrown themselves upon the grace of the community would then go and ask for money for not just a pet but a pet from another state. Talk about shameless/clueless :shock:

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2 hours ago, Chemical X said:

You know, as you get older and understand life more, you begin to realize that they teach us a lot in schools, HS, college, but they don't teach a class on real world fiscal responsibility. 

It isn't sexy, but looking back, how much would a class on how to save, medical insurance, budgeting in college have helped us all?  To get my economics degree I took Marxism and China's economy as electives.  Surprisingly, I don't find these topics coming up much now.

Thankfully they offer it in high school here.  My oldest took it, the rest will.  Or I'll teach them, or a combination.

18 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

The bolded.  That seems to be a common theme with those that are in a good place financially.  Sure, like anything, children are a choice.  But in today's environment the vast majority of people are not in a financial position to consider it until sometime after they're considered 'at risk.'  Many do anyway, but the data suggests fiscal responsibility is playing at least some role.  If the trend continues...

I get your point, but it sure seems like most 20-30 year olds "need" the new iPhones, nicer cars, etc.  We mostly did without, have 5 kids and manage.  With zero help from our parents, other than they rose us fairly well. It's not easy but it can be done. 

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2 hours ago, Chemical X said:

You know, as you get older and understand life more, you begin to realize that they teach us a lot in schools, HS, college, but they don't teach a class on real world fiscal responsibility. 

It isn't sexy, but looking back, how much would a class on how to save, medical insurance, budgeting in college have helped us all?  To get my economics degree I took Marxism and China's economy as electives.  Surprisingly, I don't find these topics coming up much now.

My son took "Math and Financial Applications" his senior year.  He had already taken Algebra 1 and 2, Geometry, and Statistics.  (He took accelerated math, so took Algebra 1 in Junior High).  He did not go to college, he took a 2 year course in High School prepping him for his EMT, he took the exam in August (Had to be 18) and is working full time as an EMT for a local ambulance company.  He would like to be a Firefighter/Paramedic.  My son loved this math course and finished the year with a 100%.  It was not difficult math, having already passed Algebra 1 and 2 made this a breeze, but the money skills he learned were invaluable.

His company won't let you join their 401K until you are 21, so I helped him start up a Roth IRA in which he contributes $300/month.  He lives at home still so he doesn't have too many other expenses.  We had talked about having to save for yourself first and once you do, you won't miss that money.  I am really hoping he can stick to it in the years to come as I know he will be on his way to being financially secure.

Quote

Math and Financial Applications Grades: 11-12 Weeks: 40 Unit(s): 1

In this elective, students will learn about the psychology of money, basic money management (budgets, financial statements and the difference between an asset and a liability), types of income (earned, passive, and portfolio), how credit and credit scores work, good debt versus bad debt, dangers of credit card, types of investments (real estate and paper assets), how to start a business and build a business plan, and what is required to exit the financial rat race of living paycheck to paycheck. Overall, students will learn how to build a plan for taking control of their money rather than letting money control them.

 

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26 minutes ago, Murph said:

Since it's been brought up a few times this seems relevant. How society views people that are bad with money: https://imgur.com/ET6dWUh

Yup. When someone who has some money doesn't take care of their kids, we call them a deadbeat (possibly, criminal). When people (who already don't have a pot to piss in nor window to throw it out of) continue to reproduce, we make excuses for them.

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3 minutes ago, whiskey7 said:

Yup. When someone who has some money doesn't take care of their kids, we call them a deadbeat (possibly, criminal). When people (who already don't have a pot to piss in nor window to throw it out of) continue to reproduce, we make excuses for them.

Not only that, we give them tax breaks and other benefits.

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Just now, -OZ- said:

I get your point, but it sure seems like most 20-30 year olds "need" the new iPhones, nicer cars, etc.  We mostly did without, have 5 kids and manage.  With zero help from our parents, other than they rose us fairly well. It's not easy but it can be done. 

I think focusing on the behaviors of the majority of people in each demographic leads to poor conversation.  The majority are unfortunately irresponsible.  You probably won't find many people that consume as little as I do, so you can probably guess how I feel about those that spend above their means and complain when their situation suffers a setback.  You can also probably guess the sort of people I hang out with.  I don't have the patience...eh, let's be honest - tolerance, for the irresponsible.  I'm referring to the portion of that group that do things the right way and the only way you can really assure yourself of a stable situation at a relatively early stage in life is to not have kids.  It isn't a sustainable model.  I'd slightly rather that responsible person be the one creating more little people than the alternative.  Which brings me back to the first two sentences of this post.  Because now we're gonna keep getting more of that.

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2 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Or just file bankruptcy once a decade...

Asking for a friend:

How exactly does this work? Let's say my friend has an enormously high amount of credit available, no liabilities, no debt outstanding, but funds in different savings accounts, 401k, brokerage accounts, etc. - if he was to run up a $500k bill in credit, could he file bankruptcy and just not pay it back? 

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4 hours ago, The Iguana said:

You would probably be surprised to find out how many people are doing this. Odds are very high that if you could honestly poll a dozen of your neighbors, at least 8 of them would be in a situation that being out of work for 1 month would put them into "desperation mode" - i.e. paying for food, mortgage, utilities, etc would be near impossible for more than 1 month without their current income. 

And that includes a lot of people that look like they have everything going for them - i.e. nice car, clothes, etc. They live "in the now" and are not planning for the future nearly enough. 

Isn't the struggle that they are going through "living in the now". I feel bad for those that have medical issues that put them in a bad situation. Those things can't be helped. I've spent that last 20 years not only making tough financial decisions due to my daughters diabetic needs, but also personal decisions. For 5 years, we didn't trust anyone (and some didn't want to take on the risk) of babysitting our daughter if we went on vacation or out for an evening. They didn't want to administer the insulin shots. 

Everyone has decisions to make each day. Some are good, some are bad, and some are out of our control.

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I watch a lot of Jimmy Dore, and he consistently quotes (not sure from which report) that 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, along with 63% not being able to afford a $1000 emergency.

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

Another topic...educational loans.

 

I chose an in state university that was nearly free for me vs. going to expensive, more highly ranked out of state universities....no question it was the right choice fiscally.  

I see parents/kids dropping 50K a year on out of state tuition to schools that don't justify the price tag with their kids majoring in graphic design.   You just can't fix stupid.

 

My instate is 30K :unsure:

 

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14 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Asking for a friend:

How exactly does this work? Let's say my friend has an enormously high amount of credit available, no liabilities, no debt outstanding, but funds in different savings accounts, 401k, brokerage accounts, etc. - if he was to run up a $500k bill in credit, could he file bankruptcy and just not pay it back? 

the bankruptcy court will require a payback plan of some sort...but you are paying back only a small portion of the debt in many situations.  Also, I don't believe you can declare BK just to declare it...you'd have to prove loss of job etc.   

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9 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Asking for a friend:

How exactly does this work? Let's say my friend has an enormously high amount of credit available, no liabilities, no debt outstanding, but funds in different savings accounts, 401k, brokerage accounts, etc. - if he was to run up a $500k bill in credit, could he file bankruptcy and just not pay it back? 

It can get complicated.  The non-retirement monies can get divided to creditors.  He might have to pay a percentage of unsecured debt back depending on income.  If he ran the debt up shortly before filing, creditors could argue that he's committing bankruptcy fraud but such cases aren't common.  From your description, though, it sounds like fraud to me.

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3 hours ago, belljr said:

I drove a 2003 Accord with 265000 miles on it to pay for college JERK

We have one good car. A leased 2017 Subaru Forester. Cost is $235 a month. 

The 5 other cars we own (owned or handed down to kids). 1997 F150, 1998 oldmobile, 1999 subaru, 2007 focus.  I have been looking at 10 year old Honda CRV's to replace the oldsmobile. We have saved $8500 over the past year as a budget. 

We could have 2 or 3 car payments and drive any car we want. I just can't justify spending a bunch of savings or making a huge monthly payment for the benefit of driving from point A to point B. 

 

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5 minutes ago, TripItUp said:

the bankruptcy court will require a payback plan of some sort...but you are paying back only a small portion of the debt in many situations.  Also, I don't believe you can declare BK just to declare it...you'd have to prove loss of job etc.   

Are you sure?

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11 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Asking for a friend:

How exactly does this work? Let's say my friend has an enormously high amount of credit available, no liabilities, no debt outstanding, but funds in different savings accounts, 401k, brokerage accounts, etc. - if he was to run up a $500k bill in credit, could he file bankruptcy and just not pay it back? 

Can't be sure if this is a serious question but, just in case.

Someone I know filed for bankruptcy a couple years ago. I posted a question in here about it and got some responses. I can't recall any. You may want to do a search.

Your "friend" my want to duckduckgo for more info. Then see a lawyer who specializes in this. A means test will be required. My friend was fully and consistently employed and making decent money. She never missed a payment on anything. She was just overwhelmed by debt and recognized that she would not be able to keep shuffling her debt around.

Good luck.

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People living at or below the poverty level notwithstanding, Americans feel they have to have the best (Iphone, Ipad, NFL Sunday Ticket, eat out every other day, house they can't afford, car they can't afford, expensive clothing they can't afford, private schools for their kids, vacations they can't afford, etc. etc.).   There are a lot of middle class Americans who live paycheck to paycheck because it's their choice.  Even those with huge school debt, they can't seem to give up luxuries when their brain says they should.  

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2 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

This subject always makes me laugh.  This advice while sound isn't practical for many.  Every situation is different, but the path from school to home ownership to kids to saving (or in some other order)...how long does that take?  In previous generations it was financially feasible to get to the last point in your 20's or early 30's (with good planning) before you make the big step professionally.  Now?  I don't think we have sufficient data to make an average road map and it's going to depend greatly market-to-market, but in most cases I don't think it's feasible without the big step professionally until at least deep into your 30's and later wouldn't surprise me.  And by then you're weighing your own savings vs. your kids future education costs.  Conventional wisdom is to save for yourself before your kid, but I sympathize with a parent looking at that sort of decision and opting not to be selfish.

I think this is a little too much whoa is me so it doesn't sit particularly well, but a friend of mine put this rather aptly recently.  (paraphrasing) I ask others who seem to be ahead how they got there and the answer is almost always 'someone in my family with a lot of money died' or they decided not to have kids.  It's hyperbolic and includes those same 75% of people that are irresponsible spenders, but the point is still a good one.  How can you finance it all?  Until you get to that point professionally, you can't.  So what's the first corner you are going to cut until you get there?  Probably savings.  

There a lot of good points here but there's also still a number of things that rely on choices. I was by far not "perfect" in what all I did through the year. And there were plenty of lean years, sometimes self imposed. But there was always an "end goal" in mind. If I had been more fanatic in some of my planning, I could have been in a different place faster, etc. But a lot had to do with having some goals in mind.

For me, one of the big sacrifices had to do with the house I own. My wife and I came :thisclose: to moving I don't know how many times. We wanted something bigger. It often felt like we needed something bigger. Something with more room definitely would have been far more convenient. Instead we kept putting it off and eventually realized that we were just fine. Now my kids are working on moving out and we have more than enough room. I have a number of friends that are now "downsizing" to save expenses, improve their position, etc. I don't have to move, don't need to downsize, and have far more equity, savings, etc than they do. 

At times over the years there was a decent amount of "pressure" of "needing" something else but realistically we both knew it was a lot more about wants than needs. 

Every situation is different, and even while doing some planning, I've wasted far more resources than I'd like to admit. Many of those "wastes" more than worth the money. Taking my kids to Disney, other vacations, a new golf club, <fill in the blank with any number of material wants>, etc. But there is a big difference in taking my kids to Disney, the grand canyon, etc as planned with the "big picture" in mind and going to Disney World every year without missing but without a sizable savings set aside - and yes, I know a several people that do this but shouldn't if they really had a long term plan.

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1 hour ago, TripItUp said:

Work ethic, common sense, discipline, ambition....things 95% of Americans don't have.

I think that's a bit harsh... I just don't think a lot of people think "big picture". Maybe "common sense" covers that but I don't think that's it. 

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

I think focusing on the behaviors of the majority of people in each demographic leads to poor conversation.  The majority are unfortunately irresponsible.  You probably won't find many people that consume as little as I do, so you can probably guess how I feel about those that spend above their means and complain when their situation suffers a setback.  You can also probably guess the sort of people I hang out with.  I don't have the patience...eh, let's be honest - tolerance, for the irresponsible.  I'm referring to the portion of that group that do things the right way and the only way you can really assure yourself of a stable situation at a relatively early stage in life is to not have kids.  It isn't a sustainable model.  I'd slightly rather that responsible person be the one creating more little people than the alternative.  Which brings me back to the first two sentences of this post.  Because now we're gonna keep getting more of that.

A topic like this is only going to fit "the majority" of a population. There are always going to be some people that do things "right" but still struggle. It totally happens. I think the idea that stats say that like something like 80%+ are living paycheck to paycheck shows that the "majority" are making poor decisions. Any individual may have a different situation but as a "generality", a bunch of those people are in that spot because of not thinking long term and/or making poor decisions.

There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule, imo.

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