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Zyphros

Dynasty: Miles Sanders - Eagles

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

After Jacobs flopped, anyone think Sanders is the 1st RB taken? I think it's entirely possible...

Maybe likely. 

Just look at it objectively: same junior rushing stats as Barkley, and best combine of any running back in 2019.

As far as the tape goes, apparently it's in the eye of the beholder. Saying his football isn't good is just stating your opinion of his tape. A lot of people like what they see. One or more of these NFL GMs will too.

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11 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

 

But NFL teams do the same thing. I dont have Sanders as my rb1, but he had a good combine and the guys above him did not (Montgomery and Jacobs). 

 

ETA: personally I get nervous about combine stars coming out of nowhere to be high picks. 

11 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think it's going to come down to the teams' preferences as there really are no standouts in this class. I could see anyone of Jacobs, Henderson, Sanders, Harris (or others) drafted first. I don't think we are going to see a first round back this year either but no one really expected Penny or Sony to go in the first last year either.

I can see someone taking one or two of these guys late round 1. Teams like Philly could be looking at RBs who wont be there when they pick again. especially with the drop off in talent. But I dont expect one to go round 1 either personally. 

Edited by Dr. Dan
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Sanders looks scared on tape.

53-170 yards combined or 3.2 yards per carry against Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan, and Kentucky. Those teams have the most pros on them.......

Good combine but not a 3 down back. I'm going to pass on him. 

Edited by Milkman
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11 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Philadelphia would be a great spot for any running back, but especially Sanders. Very similar offense to what he's used to.

The best part of that is it would guarantee he goes before I would consider him and to me that's a good thing.

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

The best part of that is it would guarantee he goes before I would consider him and to me that's a good thing.

Wait, you don't like Miles Sanders?

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24 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Wait, you don't like Miles Sanders?

I like him if I can get him late 2nd on rookie drafts.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I like him if I can get him late 2nd on rookie drafts.

So you hate him.  He's somewhere in the RB2-5 range right now, depending on who you ask.

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2 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

So you hate him.  He's somewhere in the RB2-5 range right now, depending on who you ask.

In a weak RB class and a strong WR and TE class, I can see him falling to the 2nd round.

Metcalf, Harry, Jacobs, A J Brown, Harmon, Fant, Butler, Samuel, Harris, Hockenson, Henderson, Murray, Haskins, Marquise Brown, Irv Smith, Ridley, Arcega-Whiteside, Rodney Anderson

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25 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

So you hate him.  He's somewhere in the RB2-5 range right now, depending on who you ask.

Some people have him 1.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

The best part of that is it would guarantee he goes before I would consider him and to me that's a good thing.

You only have watched one of his games, a bad one too. For the purpose of diligence, watch one of his better games like Wisconsin.

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5 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

You only have watched one of his games, a bad one too. For the purpose of diligence, watch one of his better games like Wisconsin.

OK, I will later tonight.  I feel this draft class for RBs is overall weak and I'd rather throw a dart at a WR or TE, unless one of the lessor RBs I like falls to the 2nd rd.  I'd rather have one of the top WRs (Brown, Harry Metcalf) over Jacobs or Montgomery in the top the top 5.  I'm not going to reach for someone like Henderson before the late first or early 2nd.  I wouldn't draft Sanders before the 2nd round for sure.

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5 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Sanders has poor efficiency as a receiver is one of the things I do not like about him.

I haven’t looked at numbers heavily but I would bet that McSorely getting the ball to him late is a big part of that.  

I think I’m going to move him to my RB1, still late 1st as I agree with others that I’d gladly take a top WR or TE over any RB.  

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10 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

I haven’t looked at numbers heavily but I would bet that McSorely getting the ball to him late is a big part of that.  

I think I’m going to move him to my RB1, still late 1st as I agree with others that I’d gladly take a top WR or TE over any RB.  

Well I have looked at the numbers and watched him play and he isn't that good as a receiver.

I just watched the Wisconsin cut ups linked by cloppbeast above as testament to Sanders at his best.

Well its not all that impressive to me. He does show good vision and change of direction ability as a runner, which I do really like. However his best run in this clip in my opinion occurs on 3rd and long against a light box when the defense is clearly playing the pass and caught out of position after Sanders presses the hole then cuts back to the other side.

In general his best runs are where the defense gives him the edge and he is able to string them out with good patience and footwork. While this is great I also think he leaves some yards on the field by not being more decisive and just hitting it to the outside when that is there. It makes me wonder about his burst somewhat as RB who can get to that speed quickly would usually do so.

He isn't the best RB from this draft class in my opinion. There are some things about him I do like though and I think he can be a starter in the NFL.

I do look at the numbers and his yards per reception is below average for a RB. Most of the college RB are not benefiting much from QB play.

I consider him a tier two prospect and the 8th RB from this draft class that I have looked at so far. 

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After the Alabama pro day, many have moved Sanders to RB1 it seems. rookie pick 1.02 in some circles

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2 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

He isn't the best RB from this draft class in my opinion.

I consider him a tier two prospect and the 8th RB from this draft class that I have looked at so far. 

Who is your RB1?

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Just now, Biabreakable said:

Henderson is the only tier one RB from this class in my view.

Interesting. Thanks.

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3 hours ago, Zyphros said:

I haven’t looked at numbers heavily but I would bet that McSorely getting the ball to him late is a big part of that.  

I think I’m going to move him to my RB1, still late 1st as I agree with others that I’d gladly take a top WR or TE over any RB.  

That didn't seem to stop Barkley the year before. 

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3 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Well I have looked at the numbers and watched him play and he isn't that good as a receiver.

I just watched the Wisconsin cut ups linked by cloppbeast above as testament to Sanders at his best.

Well its not all that impressive to me. He does show good vision and change of direction ability as a runner, which I do really like. However his best run in this clip in my opinion occurs on 3rd and long against a light box when the defense is clearly playing the pass and caught out of position after Sanders presses the hole then cuts back to the other side.

In general his best runs are where the defense gives him the edge and he is able to string them out with good patience and footwork. While this is great I also think he leaves some yards on the field by not being more decisive and just hitting it to the outside when that is there. It makes me wonder about his burst somewhat as RB who can get to that speed quickly would usually do so.

He isn't the best RB from this draft class in my opinion. There are some things about him I do like though and I think he can be a starter in the NFL.

I do look at the numbers and his yards per reception is below average for a RB. Most of the college RB are not benefiting much from QB play.

I consider him a tier two prospect and the 8th RB from this draft class that I have looked at so far. 

Well you can lead a horse to water....

Though this the interesting part of watching film: one guy sees a stud while another sees just a guy. In my limited experience, I havent been more confused about the lack of love than for Miles Sanders. Makes me wonder if people are just trying too hard.

One of your criticisms isnt even a criticism. I mean, Sanders best run comes on 3rd and long. Not a knock. This is expected as it's about the only time he sees a favorable defense. But it shows what he can do with a little daylight. He's very hard to tackle.

Concerns about receiving are real. His numbers underwhelm. Barkley was a focal point in the passing game while Sanders was asked to pass block, which he does well. He rarely runs a route and only gets a reception after leaking out. 

Youre just hoping this is an oversight by Penn State to not use Sanders in space in the passing game. They didnt even throw him a screen in any of the games I watched. It's a shame because his abilities in the open field translate well to pass catching. 

Sanders through the hole in the second level, nobody in this class comes close. Up until that point Sanders will leave you scratching your head sometimes. I'll admit he's far from a sure thing, a boom/bust player in a lot of ways. 

 

Edited by cloppbeast

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28 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Well you can lead a horse to water....

Though this the interesting part of watching film: one guy sees a stud while another sees just a guy. In my limited experience, I havent been more confused about the lack of love than for Miles Sanders. Makes me wonder if people are just trying too hard.

One of your criticisms isnt even a criticism. I mean, Sanders best run comes on 3rd and long. Not a knock. This is expected as it's about the only time he sees a favorable defense. But it shows what he can do with a little daylight. He's very hard to tackle.

Concerns about receiving are real. His numbers underwhelm. Barkley was a focal point in the passing game while Sanders was asked to pass block, which he does well. He rarely runs a route and only gets a reception after leaking out. 

Youre just hoping this is an oversight by Penn State to not use Sanders in space in the passing game. They didnt even throw him a screen in any of the games I watched. It's a shame because his abilities in the open field translate well to pass catching. 

Sanders through the hole in the second level, nobody in this class comes close. Up until that point Sanders will leave you scratching your head sometimes. I'll admit he's far from a sure thing, a boom/bust player in a lot of ways. 

 

I do like him I just dont think he is the best of this class.

I dont see the same burst from him as I do Henderson or Anderson. I can see some ranking him ahead of Anderson because of injury concern, but just watching them I think Anderson has better acceleration.

Josh Jacob's might too. I have watched about the same amount of both players.

Is it trying too hard to have a bit of nuance in ones layering of many different skills and metrics?

FWIW I had Kareem Hunt as a tier two RB in that class and I really liked Hunt. I had Nick Chubb as a tier two RB last year and didn't have him or Michel as tier one until post draft, mostly because of their draft position.

It is a very high bar for me to rank a player tier one.

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36 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I do like him I just dont think he is the best of this class.

I dont see the same burst from him as I do Henderson or Anderson. I can see some ranking him ahead of Anderson because of injury concern, but just watching them I think Anderson has better acceleration.

Josh Jacob's might too. I have watched about the same amount of both players.

Is it trying too hard to have a bit of nuance in ones layering of many different skills and metrics?

FWIW I had Kareem Hunt as a tier two RB in that class and I really liked Hunt. I had Nick Chubb as a tier two RB last year and didn't have him or Michel as tier one until post draft, mostly because of their draft position.

It is a very high bar for me to rank a player tier one.

Burst is hard to tell, I think it's splitting hairs between any of them. Jacobs, Henderson, and Anderson all have good burst, but so does Sanders. Here is Sanders vs Barkley in the 40, tied until about 20. Sanders beats him to the 10.

Edited by cloppbeast

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

 

They didnt even throw him a screen in any of the games I watched. It's a shame because his abilities in the open field translate well to pass catching. 

 

yes. Sanders isnt your typical between the tackles sort of RB. in open space he is hard to tackle. This is usually why teams pass to RBs.

Guice wasnt used much in the passing game either, in fact he had the same receptions as Sanders did in his career. Coaches couldn't stop gushing at how good he was catching the ball last years minicamps. 

I'm not worried about this part of his game at all

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

yes. Sanders isnt your typical between the tackles sort of RB. in open space he is hard to tackle. This is usually why teams pass to RBs.

Guice wasnt used much in the passing game either, in fact he had the same receptions as Sanders did in his career. Coaches couldn't stop gushing at how good he was catching the ball last years minicamps. 

I'm not worried about this part of his game at all

I haven't watched Sanders much, but it's worth noting that Guice didn't catch passes in an LSU system where the RB never catches passes, whereas Sanders played in an offense that had just thrown a TON to an (albeit great) RB the year before.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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35 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

yes. Sanders isnt your typical between the tackles sort of RB. in open space he is hard to tackle. This is usually why teams pass to RBs.

Guice wasnt used much in the passing game either, in fact he had the same receptions as Sanders did in his career. Coaches couldn't stop gushing at how good he was catching the ball last years minicamps. 

I'm not worried about this part of his game at all

With Sanders, his receiving game notwithstanding, I think he bounces things outside too much.  I don't think he's comfortable between the tackles.  That will hurt him at the next level.

Edited by JohnnyU

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I haven't watched Sanders much, but it's worth noting that Guice didn't catch passes in an LSU system where the RB never catches passes, whereas Sanders played in an offense that had just thrown a TON to an (albeit great) RB the year before.

The pass catching does worry me. It's just weird his role in the passing game was solely pass blocking. 

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10 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

The pass catching does worry me. It's just weird his role in the passing game was solely pass blocking. 

Even after watching him drop passes in the Ky game, the thing that worries me most about Sanders is his running everything outside.   I'm not convinced he's comfortable as an inside runner and he will need to be if he's going to be more than a change of pace back.  Just my opinion.   One thing in his favor is his yards after contact (845).

ETA:  The yards after contact is the sole reason why I would draft him in the early 2nd rd of rookie drafts.  I just think there are better choices in the 1st with WRs and TEs.

Edited by JohnnyU

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21 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

Burst is hard to tell, I think it's splitting hairs between any of them. Jacobs, Henderson, and Anderson all have good burst, but so does Sanders. Here is Sanders vs Barkley in the 40, tied until about 20. Sanders beats him to the 10.

There is no doubt he tested very well at the combine.

I do consider combine metrics but it only counts for about 10% of the entire evaluation. He is stellar in that regard.

I think a lot of people put more weight on combine metrics than I do.

His 3 cone time excites me as you see great change of direction skills in his play as well. That makes sense.

When I talk about burst, part of that is just acceleration. Another part of that is turning speed into power. While I dont think Sanders has poor burst, I do see other RB with more burst than Sanders from this draf6 class.

I am always comparing these players to past draft classes as well and there have been some very good ones recently.

Sanders would not be very high on a combined 2017 to 2019 list for me.

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20 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

yes. Sanders isnt your typical between the tackles sort of RB. in open space he is hard to tackle. This is usually why teams pass to RBs.

Guice wasnt used much in the passing game either, in fact he had the same receptions as Sanders did in his career. Coaches couldn't stop gushing at how good he was catching the ball last years minicamps. 

I'm not worried about this part of his game at all

He had 24 receptions over 13 games and averaged 5.8 yards per reception. 

That is below average for a college RB across the board.

If you play in PPR something I think you should care about.

 

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menobrown just posted this link of Greg Cosells write ups of Josh Jacobs and Miles Sanders.

Quote

Sanders lacks home run sped but that's far down the list of critical running back traits. Not truly explosive and did not show the needed burst and speed to get to the perimeter and out-run the defense.

 

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34 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

menobrown just posted this link of Greg Cosells write ups of Josh Jacobs and Miles Sanders.

His first sentence: "Sanders is a good-sized back with excellent short-area quickness"

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

His first sentence: "Sanders is a good-sized back with excellent short-area quickness"

He also says, "Sanders is... the best RB... in the NFL"

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34 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

He also says, "Sanders is... the best RB... in the NFL"

Jokes aside, Cosell endorses Sanders as his #2 runningback in this draft. And I'm inclined to ignore his #1 Jacob's for reasons of logic. 

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8 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

Jokes aside, Cosell endorses Sanders as his #2 runningback in this draft. And I'm inclined to ignore his #1 Jacob's for reasons of logic. 

Sanders is quite high for me in this draft. I will be happy if my league thinks poorly of him. IMO Sanders could go as high as 1.2 in rookie drafts

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3 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Sanders is quite high for me in this draft. I will be happy if my league thinks poorly of him. IMO Sanders could go as high as 1.2 in rookie drafts

Then in theory and with good landing spot, Sanders could be 1.01

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True home run speed is low on the list desired for bell cow backs? Ok Greg tell me another. Lol these scouts this ####### off season. There is a reason it is extremely rare a back goes in the first without running a sub 4.6 and this because...... can you guess it?....... true home run speed.

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On 3/23/2019 at 9:37 PM, Gandalf said:

Then in theory and with good landing spot, Sanders could be 1.01

That would tickle me pink if that happened in my leagues.

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On 3/23/2019 at 9:37 PM, Gandalf said:

Then in theory and with good landing spot, Sanders could be 1.01

where is that? I dont see KC taking a rb until rd 3 at the earliest

PHI, TB, HOU, OAK, BUF are the teams, in my mind, that I wouldn't be surprised to see address their rb position within the first 4 rounds. IMO PHI or TB could make Sanders a 1.1 candidate, however I'd probably pass if I had 1.1 (I'd expect him top 3 though)

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A running backs coach for an AFC team tells NFL Media analyst Lance Zierlein that Miles Sanders needs to stop "imitating" Saquon Barkley.

The full quote to Zierlein. "He sees it well, but it looks like he's imitating Saquon (Barkley) with all the stop-start stuff he does. He doesn't have Saquon's go-go juice so he needs to be careful with all that stuff. Just trust your eyes and go. That's what I would tell him." Zierlein also notes that ball security appears to be an issue, and that he doesn't have "home run speed" in the open field. Of course, this was written before Sanders ran a 4.45 second 40-yard dash, a solid -- if not spectacular -- time. " Sanders is more skilled than explosive," Zierlein writes, "but he has the size and talent to develop into a future starter with every-down potential."

SOURCE: NFL.com

Mar 26, 2019, 4:41 PM

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Sanders and Ozigbo were a lot more appealing before people started putting them top 5. They both broke out extremely late which is concerning. Both had pretty valid reasons for that but it’s still not totally inexcusable. That and the lack of receiving production will keep them out of my first tier entering the draft. Going to the Chiefs, Texans or Bucs will change my mind for almost any back if it’s in the first three rounds, so we’ll see what happens.

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ozigbo is top 5? I figured he was a round 3 or udfa target. I still think this

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33 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Sanders and Ozigbo were a lot more appealing before people started putting them top 5. They both broke out extremely late which is concerning. Both had pretty valid reasons for that but it’s still not totally inexcusable.

I'm not following how it's not totally inexcusable to ride the pine behind Saquon Barkley.

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

ozigbo is top 5? I figured he was a round 3 or udfa target. I still think this

Just what I’m seeing around Twitter

2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

I'm not following how it's not totally inexcusable to ride the pine behind Saquon Barkley.

It is excusable, it’s still a narrative. When you look at the data and use it as a predictive measure it’s still not good to break out when he did. He’s decently athletic but not mind bendingly so. I would say he tops out as a Marlon Mack type who has questions about his pass catching ability. I’m a Mack fan so I mean that in a good way but I’m not sure others are really going to be super enthused by that if they use a top 6-8 pick on him.

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1 hour ago, Bojang0301 said:

It is excusable, it’s still a narrative. When you look at the data and use it as a predictive measure it’s still not good to break out when he did. He’s decently athletic but not mind bendingly so. I would say he tops out as a Marlon Mack type who has questions about his pass catching ability. I’m a Mack fan so I mean that in a good way but I’m not sure others are really going to be super enthused by that if they use a top 6-8 pick on him.

Yeah it's not ideal, but there are plenty of exceptions.  Those exceptions often come when there is a good reason for it like, I dunno, being stuck behind one of the best college RBs of our lifetime.

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4 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

Yeah it's not ideal, but there are plenty of exceptions.  Those exceptions often come when there is a good reason for it like, I dunno, being stuck behind one of the best college RBs of our lifetime.

Do you ever read the whole thread or do you just like to jump to the point where there is a reason I remembered I ignored you? Clown. Like, I dunno, when I said this:

“It is excusable, it’s still a narrative. When you look at the data and use it as a predictive measure it’s still not good to break out when he did. He’s decently athletic but not mind bendingly so. I would say he tops out as a Marlon Mack type who has questions about his pass catching ability. I’m a Mack fan so I mean that in a good way but I’m not sure others are really going to be super enthused by that if they use a top 6-8 pick on him.”

You’re the worst.

Edited by Bojang0301

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