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Privacy - this is getting ridiculous (1 Viewer)

More fear mongering.

More people up in arms over things that will in all likelihood never affect them.  The article specifically states that the concern here is that your picture is run through an FBI database or databases of people with outstanding warrants.  Umm hello. Don't we want these people to be caught?  Don't we want these agencies to run efficiently?

 
Scoresman said:
More fear mongering.

More people up in arms over things that will in all likelihood never affect them.  The article specifically states that the concern here is that your picture is run through an FBI database or databases of people with outstanding warrants.  Umm hello. Don't we want these people to be caught?  Don't we want these agencies to run efficiently?
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Big difference between an international and a domestic flight.  On Intl when you get back the US has a right to do a check.  No doubt.  This appears to be the case here.  Though we should all worry about "sharing with private partners" (who are they?) and heck, sharing with the govt.  

As I found out with the OPM breach, the govt. having your sensitive information means it's much less secure than a company like Apple.

 
So people are paying a premium for google to spy on them and their household habits with Nest door controls, A/C controls, baby monitors, etc.  And it all works great until the big G loses control of their cloud for a while and then, because of lack of connectivity, they can't open their doors, run their A/C units, etc.   Why, at the least, there is no provision for local control here I have no idea.  So many points of failure affect the reliability of these systems.  And they are gobbling up all this data on you.  

Maybe just me, but I have no idea why products like this are attractive.

 
Sand said:
Maybe just me, but I have no idea why products like this are attractive.
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Because they can save you a lot of $ on energy, by not wasting as much energy they curb pollution, and people feel those products add both security/convenience to the egress and ingress of their homes. That's when it's all working of course. It probably works 99.9+% of the time. To some, that's a fair trade off. I would likely have some system of backup if something did go wrong but I'm more thoughtful of having systems of redundancy setup than most people. Long before Google was a glimmer in someones eye there have been instances in my life where I was locked out of my house for a short time if those are considered "the good 'ol days". Perhaps that's partially why I have systems of redundancy now.

As with anything else, if you think you are giving up more than you are getting back from something..... it would be wise not to do it. Sounds like you fit in that camp, and there's nothing wrong with that. For instance I can't think of a single reason to have a Facebook account. So I don't.

 
Sand said:
So people are paying a premium for google to spy on them and their household habits with Nest door controls, A/C controls, baby monitors, etc.  And it all works great until the big G loses control of their cloud for a while and then, because of lack of connectivity, they can't open their doors, run their A/C units, etc.   Why, at the least, there is no provision for local control here I have no idea.  So many points of failure affect the reliability of these systems.  And they are gobbling up all this data on you.  

Maybe just me, but I have no idea why products like this are attractive.
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I'm not sure why they didn't just go to their thermostats and adjust manually  :oldunsure:   I can't speak to the other products, I don't use them but nest is completely controllable at the device...at least it was 3 years ago.  I left our nest when we moved.

 
BoltBacker said:
Because they can save you a lot of $ on energy, by not wasting as much energy they curb pollution, and people feel those products add both security/convenience to the egress and ingress of their homes. That's when it's all working of course. It probably works 99.9+% of the time. To some, that's a fair trade off. I would likely have some system of backup if something did go wrong but I'm more thoughtful of having systems of redundancy setup than most people. Long before Google was a glimmer in someones eye there have been instances in my life where I was locked out of my house for a short time if those are considered "the good 'ol days". Perhaps that's partially why I have systems of redundancy now.

As with anything else, if you think you are giving up more than you are getting back from something..... it would be wise not to do it. Sounds like you fit in that camp, and there's nothing wrong with that. For instance I can't think of a single reason to have a Facebook account. So I don't.
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I have a thermostat that I can control from my phone and we can set programs to run different temps based on when are or aren't home. I can also control it manually from the actual thermostat. The idea that one can't turn on a device in their home or unlock their front door because their app isn't working is beyond comical and a sign of a serious design flaw.  

 
Sand said:
As I found out with the OPM breach, the govt. having your sensitive information means it's much less secure than a company like Apple.
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You mean THIS apple....

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/14/zombieload-intel-chip-vulnerability/

... and THIS apple....

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-ipad-mac-ios-safari-processor-flaw-meltdown-spectre-intel-arm/

Marketing that YOUR system makes your data so much secure than the other guys systems is modern day snake oil. Your data is not safe. I don't care what designer brand of electronics you own to sleep at night but just to reiterate, YOUR.... DATA.... IS.... NOT... SAFE. You may as well just wear tin foil on your head so the aliens can't grab your credit card information.

 
Ilov80s said:
 The idea that one can't turn on a device in their home or unlock their front door because their app isn't working is beyond comical and a sign of a serious design flaw.  
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Yeah, I honestly have no idea how that works. I've only lived two places my entire life where there was only one point of entry/exit(which seems like a bad idea from a fire safety point of view and probably a bigger deal than Google being down for an hour). I would imagine that MOST people have a point of entry for convenience(say between your garage and kitchen for instance, or front door) that is all "smart locked" up where you open the door via NFC or something and never have to fiddle with a key.

I would probably solve this by having a key hidden somewhere on my property for whatever door that I didn't use very often. Most people this would be their backdoor but I've been to homes where they only use the front door for guests. But again, as a teenager I have been locked out of the house for an hour or more. It was far from ideal but it didn't happen often and got resolved 100% of the time. IMO we had DIFFERENT inconveniences 20+ years ago, but I'm not sure we had LESS inconveniences.

 
BoltBacker said:
You mean THIS apple....

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/05/14/zombieload-intel-chip-vulnerability/

... and THIS apple....

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-ipad-mac-ios-safari-processor-flaw-meltdown-spectre-intel-arm/

Marketing that YOUR system makes your data so much secure than the other guys systems is modern day snake oil. Your data is not safe. I don't care what designer brand of electronics you own to sleep at night but just to reiterate, YOUR.... DATA.... IS.... NOT... SAFE. You may as well just wear tin foil on your head so the aliens can't grab your credit card information.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

It's only "safe" if people don't want it.

 
Sand said:
Big difference between an international and a domestic flight.  On Intl when you get back the US has a right to do a check.  No doubt.  This appears to be the case here.  Though we should all worry about "sharing with private partners" (who are they?) and heck, sharing with the govt.  

As I found out with the OPM breach, the govt. having your sensitive information means it's much less secure than a company like Apple.
Click to expand...
Except it was outbound not inbound. This was prior to being allowed to enter the jetbridge, instead of presenting boarding pass and passport they scanned her face.

 
BoltBacker said:
Because they can save you a lot of $ on energy, by not wasting as much energy they curb pollution, 
Click to expand...
I have an Ecobee - same programmability, energy savings, etc., but it doesn't report back to the mother ship.

The Commish said:
I'm not sure why they didn't just go to their thermostats and adjust manually  :oldunsure:   
Click to expand...
The thought of people not knowing how to adjust anything but an app.   :lmao:

Hawks64 said:
Except it was outbound not inbound. This was prior to being allowed to enter the jetbridge, instead of presenting boarding pass and passport they scanned her face.
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Missed that.  :goodposting:   I'd completely balk at sticking my face in front of that camera.  If it was in customs on the way back in I'd smile for the camera.

 
Sand said:
I have an Ecobee - same programmability, energy savings, etc., but it doesn't report back to the mother ship.
Click to expand...
If it's connected to a network and working correctly it does.  Otherwise you spent a lot of money for nothing.  I have two of these things in my house, but to get the real energy benefits the software has to stay up to date and it has to know the weather conditions of the area.  Otherwise it's not doing the things BoltBacker was referencing.  You just spent a lot of money on something that will only work as well as the standard $40 programmable thermostat.  

 
The Commish said:
If it's connected to a network and working correctly it does.  Otherwise you spent a lot of money for nothing.  I have two of these things in my house, but to get the real energy benefits the software has to stay up to date and it has to know the weather conditions of the area.  Otherwise it's not doing the things BoltBacker was referencing.  You just spent a lot of money on something that will only work as well as the standard $40 programmable thermostat.  
Click to expand...
No choice - it was put in by default when I had a new system put in.  The other one just went out, too.  I guess I'll have one on the other A/C now.  

God, don't even want to think about those damn things.  My wallet is on life support.

 
All you ever had to do was look at any map data and see the slow down and heavy traffic areas to know they are tracking everything.

 
Our lives have and will always be in the hands of other people, and particularly, those in power.

This is just a new version of an old thing.

 
Sand said:
Soon every car will be wirelessly equipped.  Even though my life is boring that's my car, my movements.  I want to turn that #### off.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there will be aftermarket methods for doing just that. You may damage or defeature some things though by disabling the 5G data radio.  Also, you'll likely void your warranty too.

Just buy a used car.

 
Sand said:
That's the thing - it really doesn't.  Let's face it, I'm pushing 50 and my online activities and real world activities are droll.  Stocks, finances, the FFA, news.  The most risque place stops at Instagram.  Heck, at this point in my life I'm much more likely to get contacted by the IRS than any other law enforcement agency.  My physical existence is about 60 hours/week in the office and most of the rest at home.  Boring, to be honest.

But it bothers me (not in a "I'm going to go off the grid and live in the woods" way) that we can't withdraw from some of this stuff.  Soon every car will be wirelessly equipped.  Even though my life is boring that's my car, my movements.  I want to turn that #### off.

And, for the most part I do ignore it, mostly because I simply don't have time to do more than ##### about it here.
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Everything not forbidden is compulsory. 

 
I keep wondering about the beneficence of those who want to know our movements, want to know where we are, what we're doing at all times. Who could possibly care but the too-curious, the corporate, and the government?

I want nothing to do with all three of those entities, thanks. All three wind up being busybodies with my own. And the means by which they know where you are aren't the issue. Consent isn't the issue. It's what they do with what they have and what justification is used. Any time somebody gives away their autonomy to anybody, they've got at least a hook in them, and with the hook, the unscrupulous always justify an end.

#### that.

 
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rockaction said:
Who could possibly care but the too-curious, the corporate, and the government?
Click to expand...
Exactly.  Some new stories have popped up in this area. 

EU might ban facial recognition.  Good for them.  We desperately need that here, but just don't see it happening.

Amazon wants people to pay with their hands.  Another awful idea.

Facial recognition way worse for black, brown.   This (and other) articles paint this as a negative.  It's not.  What a wonderful blessing to not be able to be recognized and tracked by the govt. and others.  

 
rockaction said:
Can you sense the dissent inherent in the system, then?

Just spitballing. That's an excellent development in delaying the inevitable parade towards more more more.

The EU is light years ahead of us on this. 
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American companies have so little regard for user privacy, and the users so little regard for their own data.  It'd be nice if people were more on the level about this stuff in general.  I like the idea of 'right to be forgotten'. 

I've been meaning to read Surveillance Valley.  But I also kind of dread knowing the full extent to which my data has been sold out for money.  🤷‍♂️

 
ren hoek said:
American companies have so little regard for user privacy, and the users so little regard for their own data.  It'd be nice if people were more on the level about this stuff in general.  I like the idea of 'right to be forgotten'. 

I've been meaning to read Surveillance Valley.  But I also kind of dread knowing the full extent to which my data has been sold out for money.  🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
You'd dig what Daniel Solove is trying to do. It's heartbreaking to read his casebooks and articles. I mention that because in public crowds, one has a claim, though it's not in the Restatement majority, to anonymity in crowds as a form of privacy. It's the Nader case if you're interested in Googling it. 

 
rockaction said:
You'd dig what Daniel Solove is trying to do. It's heartbreaking to read his casebooks and articles. I mention that because in public crowds, one has a claim, though it's not in the Restatement majority, to anonymity in crowds as a form of privacy. It's the Nader case if you're interested in Googling it. 
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No.  But I might duckduckgo it  (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

(I’ll see myself out) 

 
Must be a lot easier to blackmail people in government now.  Would think we do it to other countries and they do it to us.  Or at least we are all trying.

Everyone basically carrying around a microphone and camera.  

 
Article on Clearview AI, who has systematically scraped billions of images from FB, Instagram, etc.  and generated a database that LE all over the country is using.  So much for a right to any privacy.  

I wonder how long it will take for this technology to make its way to repressive regimes to exterminate dissidents.

 
Sand said:
Article on Clearview AI, who has systematically scraped billions of images from FB, Instagram, etc.  and generated a database that LE all over the country is using.  So much for a right to any privacy.  

I wonder how long it will take for this technology to make its way to repressive regimes to exterminate dissidents.
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What makes you think that isn't already happening?

 
Sand said:
Article on Clearview AI, who has systematically scraped billions of images from FB, Instagram, etc.  and generated a database that LE all over the country is using.  So much for a right to any privacy.  

I wonder how long it will take for this technology to make its way to repressive regimes to exterminate dissidents.
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China's social credit "policy" down?

 
dickey moe said:
China's social credit "policy" down?
Click to expand...
Sure, China has spent billions upon billions on this.  Technology like this would extend this capability to middle class autocrats.  Thailand, Iran, Venezuela, etc.  

 
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Sand said:
Article on Clearview AI, who has systematically scraped billions of images from FB, Instagram, etc.  and generated a database that LE all over the country is using.  So much for a right to any privacy.  

I wonder how long it will take for this technology to make its way to repressive regimes to exterminate dissidents.
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Just speculation. Pshaw. What are you worried about?

Wait until non-oppressive regimes get their hand on this and see how it's used for "good."

 
rockaction said:
Just speculation. Pshaw. What are you worried about?

Wait until non-oppressive regimes get their hand on this and see how it's used for "good."
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I worry about them simply having this stuff.  As a victim of the OPM debacle I have seen first how careful they are with sensitive data.

 
Sand said:
I worry about them simply having this stuff.  As a victim of the OPM debacle I have seen first how careful they are with sensitive data.
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Yes. I'm in total agreement. My mother worked for the state of Connecticut when a sensitive laptop got misplaced. It wound up being first page news even while they were trying to sweep it under the rug, which they couldn't after all the files were released.

They're as awful with your data as you'd expect state or temp employees to be. 

 
Sand said:
Article on Clearview AI, who has systematically scraped billions of images from FB, Instagram, etc.  and generated a database that LE all over the country is using.  So much for a right to any privacy.  

I wonder how long it will take for this technology to make its way to repressive regimes to exterminate dissidents.
Click to expand...
Read some stuff on Twitter talking how this company wants to use this data to create smart glasses so when you see someone, it can tell you who they are, where they work, age, interests, etc. It sounds horrific. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Read some stuff on Twitter talking how this company wants to use this data to create smart glasses so when you see someone, it can tell you who they are, where they work, age, interests, etc. It sounds horrific. 
Click to expand...
Reminds me of Kramer's name tag idea. 

 
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