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Neighbor cut down our tree (2 Viewers)

gianmarco said:
The bolded above were at my request.  Otherwise, that tree was getting hauled off 2 days ago.  I had to request him to leave the stump and tree until those happened. 

He also said this morning he wasn't aware when the tree was marked that it might be ours because based on his initial plans it didn't look like it.  That's in direct contrast to what the arborist told me yesterday when he has in his field notes that he specifically told him that it didn't look like his tree.  The tree was not marked at that time as he was still getting bids and it was marked by the current people doing the job after they were hired.
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Right.  He's continuing to lie to you.  A simple recount of your conversation with the arborist will let him know that you know he's lying.

 
chet said:
Right.  He's continuing to lie to you.  A simple recount of your conversation with the arborist will let him know that you know he's lying.
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Oh, I know.  That was why I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.

I've never been sued in my life.  I've never filed suit in my life.  I'd much rather keep it that way.  But I'm not going to settle for a pittance given his background, what he did, and the knowledge I know he had prior to doing it. 

 
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gianmarco said:
Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 
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Serious question...how does it work?

Also, could he have shaved off that % of the trunk that was on his side?

 
BassNBrew said:
Serious question...how does it work?

Also, could he have shaved off that % of the trunk that was on his side?
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No.

If a tree is on a property line, it's a shared tree.  Period.  There is no "part ownership".  Even with 90% on my side and assuming that tree was initially planted on my property years ago and then grew onto his, if I had taken down that tree without his permission, I would be liable for the same amount that he currently owes me. 

For a tree on a property line to come down or have anything done that affects the life of the tree, both owners need to agree.  Now, you can trim branches that come over your side, but that's it.

And, more importantly, which is what I think he was trying to insinuate, he isn't just responsible for 75% of the value of the tree.  He's responsible for 100% of the value of the tree.  Same as I would have been if I had done this in reverse.

 
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gianmarco said:
Oh, I know.  That was my I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.
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Or this:

Look I talked to the arborist who told you this tree was questionable and then I also spoke to the cutters who said you gave the ok to take it down.  I see what's going on here and I know it wasn't a simple misunderstanding.  That being said, I think we can preserve a neighborly relationship assuming you make a reasonable offer.  Please understand that I am not looking to benefit personally from this situation and I would be more than happy for you to make an appropriate donation to a charity of my choice. 

 
chet said:
Or this:

Look I talked to the arborist who told you this tree was questionable and then I also spoke to the cutters who said you gave the ok to take it down.  I see what's going on here and I know it wasn't a simple misunderstanding.  That being said, I think we can preserve a neighborly relationship assuming you make a reasonable offer.  Please understand that I am not looking to benefit personally from this situation and I would be more than happy for you to make an appropriate donation to a charity of my choice. 
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No thanks, Iguana.

 
Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.

 
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gianmarco said:
The bolded above were at my request.  Otherwise, that tree was getting hauled off 2 days ago.  I had to request him to leave the stump and tree until those happened. 

He also said this morning he wasn't aware when the tree was marked that it might be ours because based on his initial plans it didn't look like it.  That's in direct contrast to what the arborist told me yesterday when he has in his field notes that he specifically told him that it didn't look like his tree.  The tree was not marked at that time as he was still getting bids and it was marked by the current people doing the job after they were hired.
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Ahh, didn’t realize those were at your request

well, good luck. I will say it seems you will be on your way to a negotiated settlement. I would be very surprised if you two weren’t able to work things out based off your words and his actions so far. Getting The third party estimates (survey plus appraisal) makes this thing pretty straightforward really. 

 
gianmarco said:
Oh, I know.  That was my I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.

I've never been sued in my life.  I've never filed suit in my life.  I'd much rather keep it that way.  But I'm not going to settle for a pittance given his background, what he did, and the knowledge I know he had prior to doing it. 
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What is the lowest dollar amount you would accept at this point?

eta - Im not your neighbor

 
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gianmarco said:
And, more importantly, which is what I think he was trying to insinuate, he isn't just responsible for 75% of the value of the tree.  He's responsible for 100% of the value of the tree.  Same as I would have been if I had done this in reverse.
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This is, without a shred of doubt, what his approach is going to be...that he’s responsible to you for 75% of the value of the tree.  My call is that he’ll claim a replacement tree would be $2,000, so he’s going to offer you $1,500. What a #### stain.

 
E-Z Glider said:
What is the lowest dollar amount you would accept at this point?

eta - Im not your neighbor
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That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

 
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gianmarco said:
That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.
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If you are truly re-investing it all back into another tree(s) then that's cool too. 

 
gianmarco said:
That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.
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I don't see arborist or his homeowners insurance paying so this I believe comes out of pocket.  With that said, I don't see him offering getting into your 5-10k range.

 
The Iguana said:
15K given to a food pantry or to something like Chance For Hope will fill the hole left in your heart by the missing tree far better than putting it in a pillow case and sleeping on it, IMO. 
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Then have at it. You should donate this yourself if you feel that strongly.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum for me to donate a large amount of money when you have no idea what my charitable contributions are otherwise. 

 
The Iguana said:
If you are truly re-investing it all back into another tree(s) then that's cool too. 
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For Christ's sake, let's not start judging the guy over what plans he has for the money. We all at some time or another in our lives (inheritance, casino, fantasy championship, insurance claim) come into some money we didn't necessarily "earn". We should always fork it over to charity? Cut the ####.

 
gianmarco said:
Then have at it. You should donate this yourself if you feel that strongly.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum for me to donate a large amount of money when you have no idea what my charitable contributions are otherwise. 
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I'm just a cranky old man. Ignore me. I'll go sit in the corner. 

 
gianmarco said:
Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.
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And you don’t have to prove negligence or intent. The legal dispute seems pretty close to a slam dunk for you, though the neighbor and the contractor could potentially point the finger at each other. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
Am I the only one who thinks the neighbor is full of crap about telling the tree guys not to cut that down?  I'm guessing he thought it would be easier to claim it was an accident then go through the hassle of having to deal with if it could or could not be cut down.  
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Me too: good foresight TIS

ChiefD said:
For those of you saying, well, it's just a tree... come on.

A 50 year old tree is no joke. I'd be pissed as hell if my neighbor accidentally cut down my 50 foot oak tree that has been there since 1967.
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Exactly 

gianmarco said:
That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.
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9” Tree planted JUST on your side of that line + Balance in cash as Damages seems fair.
 

End result should be you getting as close to comparable a tree in that spot (and fully on your land) as possible. If for not other reason than this dude clearly doesn’t want a big tree there and is being shady/manipulative about it. 

 
gianmarco said:
That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.
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Based upon his prior behavior, I would bet he's closer to 2K than $4250 X 2.  I think you are handling this whole situation perfectly and wish you the best outcome possible.

 
Based on this guy's track record, going to guess that he lies about what the arborist says it's worth (like 60% of it), but will say that seems low and will offer something north of that but still lower than the arborist amounts (like 80-90%).  That way it looks like he is looking out for you.

 
[icon] said:
Me too: good foresight TIS

Exactly 

9” Tree planted JUST on your side of that line + Balance in cash as Damages seems fair.
 

End result should be you getting as close to comparable a tree in that spot (and fully on your land) as possible. If for not other reason than this dude clearly doesn’t want a big tree there and is being shady/manipulative about it. 
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I see what you did there.

Yeah, part of me doesn't see him starting there either.

But, at the same time, I don't think the guy is dumb and you don't get to his position with his experience without having some smarts and common sense.  I would hope by this point he realizes that I've been doing my homework on this matter.  He should realize that I've gotten my own appraisal, warned him to leave the tree there until that was done, pushed for a survey, AND happened to find the company he spoke with regarding this tree already, etc.  He almost certainly knows the law regarding this given his occupation and, at this point, realize that I probably do too. 

If so, he's hopefully smart enough not to start with some ridiculous lowball offer, which $1-2K would be.  Unfortunately for him, I've wasted a good bit of time already on this matter trying to get things done in a timely fashion before the tree was gone and I was stuck with a he said/she said type matter.  Because of that, I don't plan on a lot of back and forth with him.  If he starts reasonably, I'd like to just get it done and end it there.  If he starts stupid low, then I'm pushing for the max and will be letting him know I know what I'm entitled to.

The fact of it is, he wouldn't just be on the hook for $15K if I pushed this legally.  It could be far, far more if I pushed the replacement value aspect of this which I would be entitled to.  I currently have no intention of going there but I will if I need to.

 
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gianmarco said:
Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.
Click to expand...
Missouri? Oh, man, that's a game changer. Get your $20k and move.

 
Nigel said:
For Christ's sake, let's not start judging the guy over what plans he has for the money. We all at some time or another in our lives (inheritance, casino, fantasy championship, insurance claim) come into some money we didn't necessarily "earn". We should always fork it over to charity? Cut the ####.
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Oh, FFS....Except from the getgo the OP was looking for a payout and he has not owned his little ***** behavior!

 
culdeus said:
That's great, it's one of those great things about the internet.  Showing your work isn't really required.  You can ascribe all sorts of holier than thou assertions, and who is anyone to challenge you on what a great guy you are.  

On the internet people can be a great tipper, sort all their recycling perfectly, pay for porn, and surely they'd just let their neighbor destroy their #### and let it go because who needs stress of a bad neighbor, right?

It takes no courage to project this, and you walk away with the perceived moral high ground.  Congrats.
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I think you're getting at something here. Because you may be cheap, petty and vindictive, the assumption is everyone else must be as well? Otherwise, you'd have to accept your own shortcomings, which takes a lot more courage than calling out an anonymous poster in the ether. Not only do you maintain self esteem, you garner internet tough guy points with your approach. 👍

Seriously though, I don't think anyone was claiming moral superiority, just offering their opinion. After getting more info on the situation mine has changed btw, like a handful other posters in the thread. I even admitted I was wrong. Not sure how that reconciles with your worldview.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
And that directly answered your question about why he's entitled to damages and also addressed the "punishment" (which let's face it you threw out there in a derogatory manner). I'm not saying people should be "sue happy" but there is a legitimate reason underlying tort law.
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OK, but that wasn't what I was getting at. And after hearing additional details of the case, I'm more in line with punishing the neighbor. 

 
gianmarco said:
Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 
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Holy carp, did he really go from 90% to 75% in the span of a few sentences? As this guy is in construction, he probably knows where to get a low-ball estimate. I'd get one or two of my own.

 
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