Neighbor cut down our tree

[Dr. Octopus 10,206]

2 minutes ago, wilked said:

He might be a slimeball, but what from that post makes him one? 

 

Is it that he came out with 75% instead of 90%?  

 

Seems like he screwed up, whether intentionally or not.  Since then his actions have been:

-Order a 3rd party survey (now complete)

-Meet with neighbor and review results of survey.  Take responsibility, admit he messed up

-Order an appraisal of the value of the tree to be used in settling the issue financially

 

What would you have him do differently (after the situation happened)?

I'm putting everything together from the beginning until now - but yes even stating it as 75%-25% is misleading. Even if that was the case does - does that mean he could have sliced off 25% of the tree?

[BroncoFreak_2K3 2,073]

1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Yes, there are stakes all up and down the line.  The rest of the foliage he wants to remove is mostly on our side as well.  I told him we don't want anything cut on our side of the stakes.

Good

Hes ####ed

[gianmarco 19,105]

3 minutes ago, wilked said:

He might be a slimeball, but what from that post makes him one? 

 

Is it that he came out with 75% instead of 90%?  

 

Seems like he screwed up, whether intentionally or not.  Since then his actions have been:

-Order a 3rd party survey (now complete)

-Meet with neighbor and review results of survey.  Take responsibility, admit he messed up

-Order an appraisal of the value of the tree to be used in settling the issue financially

 

What would you have him do differently (after the situation happened)?

The bolded above were at my request.  Otherwise, that tree was getting hauled off 2 days ago.  I had to request him to leave the stump and tree until those happened. 

He also said this morning he wasn't aware when the tree was marked that it might be ours because based on his initial plans it didn't look like it.  That's in direct contrast to what the arborist told me yesterday when he has in his field notes that he specifically told him that it didn't look like his tree.  The tree was not marked at that time as he was still getting bids and it was marked by the current people doing the job after they were hired.

[chet 2,651]

8 minutes ago, wilked said:

He might be a slimeball, but what from that post makes him one? 

 

Is it that he came out with 75% instead of 90%?  

 

Seems like he screwed up, whether intentionally or not.  Since then his actions have been:

-Order a 3rd party survey (now complete)

-Meet with neighbor and review results of survey.  Take responsibility, admit he messed up

-Order an appraisal of the value of the tree to be used in settling the issue financially

 

What would you have him do differently (after the situation happened)?

Like I said above, it appears the neighbor is saying the right things but tried to take advantage of the situation.  He was caught and I'd let him know he was caught.  

[chet 2,651]

5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The bolded above were at my request.  Otherwise, that tree was getting hauled off 2 days ago.  I had to request him to leave the stump and tree until those happened. 

He also said this morning he wasn't aware when the tree was marked that it might be ours because based on his initial plans it didn't look like it.  That's in direct contrast to what the arborist told me yesterday when he has in his field notes that he specifically told him that it didn't look like his tree.  The tree was not marked at that time as he was still getting bids and it was marked by the current people doing the job after they were hired.

Right.  He's continuing to lie to you.  A simple recount of your conversation with the arborist will let him know that you know he's lying.

[gianmarco 19,105]

3 hours ago, chet said:

Right.  He's continuing to lie to you.  A simple recount of your conversation with the arborist will let him know that you know he's lying.

Oh, I know.  That was why I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.

I've never been sued in my life.  I've never filed suit in my life.  I'd much rather keep it that way.  But I'm not going to settle for a pittance given his background, what he did, and the knowledge I know he had prior to doing it. 

Edited October 17 by gianmarco

[BassNBrew 6,315]

1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Update:

His survey came out today and is completed.  The tree is 90% on our side confirmed by his survey.  He was out there this morning too.  He said he thought the tree was on his side when he looked at initial plans when he started to plan the project.  No mention of hearing otherwise from our arborist.  He did mention he knew they were out there and that he knows them from getting them out there for a bid.  He did take responsibility for it coming down and says he will "make it right".  He also said "so it looks like this tree is 75% yours and 25% mine".  I guess he thinks I don't know how this works at this point.

He is getting someone out today on his own to assess the value of the tree.  He then said once we get the appraisals, I can let him know what we'd like.  I didn't answer.  Toward the end of the conversation, I explained to him, seeing as he's in the construction business and likely knows more people in landscaping and things of that nature, for him to let ME know what he's willing to do and then we'd see if it was reasonable.  There is zero chance I'm starting any kind of offer to him.

So now we wait.  I should hear from him next week.  I've got all the information I need now.  Hopefully he plans on making it right with something acceptable and we can be done. 

Serious question...how does it work?

Also, could he have shaved off that % of the trunk that was on his side?

[BroncoFreak_2K3 2,073]

3 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Serious question...how does it work?

Also, could he have shaved off that % of the trunk that was on his side?

What would that accomplish other than killing the tree, which he did anyway.

Acorns was the problem.

Edited October 17 by BroncoFreak_2K3

[gianmarco 19,105]

4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Serious question...how does it work?

Also, could he have shaved off that % of the trunk that was on his side?

No.

If a tree is on a property line, it's a shared tree.  Period.  There is no "part ownership".  Even with 90% on my side and assuming that tree was initially planted on my property years ago and then grew onto his, if I had taken down that tree without his permission, I would be liable for the same amount that he currently owes me. 

For a tree on a property line to come down or have anything done that affects the life of the tree, both owners need to agree.  Now, you can trim branches that come over your side, but that's it.

And, more importantly, which is what I think he was trying to insinuate, he isn't just responsible for 75% of the value of the tree.  He's responsible for 100% of the value of the tree.  Same as I would have been if I had done this in reverse.

Edited October 17 by gianmarco

[chet 2,651]

2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Oh, I know.  That was my I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.

Or this:

Look I talked to the arborist who told you this tree was questionable and then I also spoke to the cutters who said you gave the ok to take it down.  I see what's going on here and I know it wasn't a simple misunderstanding.  That being said, I think we can preserve a neighborly relationship assuming you make a reasonable offer.  Please understand that I am not looking to benefit personally from this situation and I would be more than happy for you to make an appropriate donation to a charity of my choice. 

[gianmarco 19,105]

1 minute ago, chet said:

Or this:

Look I talked to the arborist who told you this tree was questionable and then I also spoke to the cutters who said you gave the ok to take it down.  I see what's going on here and I know it wasn't a simple misunderstanding.  That being said, I think we can preserve a neighborly relationship assuming you make a reasonable offer.  Please understand that I am not looking to benefit personally from this situation and I would be more than happy for you to make an appropriate donation to a charity of my choice. 

No thanks, Iguana.

[gianmarco 19,105]

Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.

Edited October 17 by gianmarco

[belljr 8,205]

9 minutes ago, BroncoFreak_2K3 said:

What would that accomplish other than killing the tree, which he did anyway.

Acorns was the problem.

Acorn - https://www.familyhandyman.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/shutterstock_740027464-acorns.jpg

Hickory Nut - https://artofeating.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/800px-Hickory_nuts_6060-1.jpg

DAMN IT 

[BroncoFreak_2K3 2,073]

5 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Just for reference

Man, that looks really really good for you and really really bad for him.

Edited October 17 by BroncoFreak_2K3

[The Tick 511]

38 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

For scale

Am I the only one that keeps expecting a middle finger or something else on the next picture I click on...  HOW'S THIS FOR SCALE!

[wilked 1,839]

41 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

The bolded above were at my request.  Otherwise, that tree was getting hauled off 2 days ago.  I had to request him to leave the stump and tree until those happened. 

He also said this morning he wasn't aware when the tree was marked that it might be ours because based on his initial plans it didn't look like it.  That's in direct contrast to what the arborist told me yesterday when he has in his field notes that he specifically told him that it didn't look like his tree.  The tree was not marked at that time as he was still getting bids and it was marked by the current people doing the job after they were hired.

Ahh, didn’t realize those were at your request

 

well, good luck. I will say it seems you will be on your way to a negotiated settlement. I would be very surprised if you two weren’t able to work things out based off your words and his actions so far. Getting The third party estimates (survey plus appraisal) makes this thing pretty straightforward really. 

[Brony 6,473]

Now we just need to wait for tri-man's overhead pictures  from his satellite moving into location. 

[E-Z Glider 1,930]

57 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Oh, I know.  That was my I made the "I'm not quite sure why it was marked with an X if it seemed like it might be our tree" comment and let him answer that he didn't know at the time.

All in due time.  I'm just waiting to hear from him next week and see what he proposes.  Again, if it's a reasonable response to make it right, I'll say "yes" and "thank you" and consider it done.  I at least have the information from a "value" standpoint as to what "reasonable" is.

I've never been sued in my life.  I've never filed suit in my life.  I'd much rather keep it that way.  But I'm not going to settle for a pittance given his background, what he did, and the knowledge I know he had prior to doing it. 

What is the lowest dollar amount you would accept at this point?

eta - Im not your neighbor

Edited October 17 by E-Z Glider

[SayWhat? 2,990]

48 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

And, more importantly, which is what I think he was trying to insinuate, he isn't just responsible for 75% of the value of the tree.  He's responsible for 100% of the value of the tree.  Same as I would have been if I had done this in reverse.

This is, without a shred of doubt, what his approach is going to be...that he’s responsible to you for 75% of the value of the tree.  My call is that he’ll claim a replacement tree would be $2,000, so he’s going to offer you $1,500. What a #### stain.

 

[gianmarco 19,105]

8 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

What is the lowest dollar amount you would accept at this point?

eta - Im not your neighbor

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

Edited October 17 by gianmarco

[The Iguana 2,107]

57 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

No thanks, Iguana.

15K given to a food pantry or to something like Chance For Hope will fill the hole left in your heart by the missing tree far better than putting it in a pillow case and sleeping on it, IMO. 

[The Iguana 2,107]

6 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

If you are truly re-investing it all back into another tree(s) then that's cool too. 

[stlrams 355]

11 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

I don't see arborist or his homeowners insurance paying so this I believe comes out of pocket.  With that said, I don't see him offering getting into your 5-10k range.

[gianmarco 19,105]

11 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

15K given to a food pantry or to something like Chance For Hope will fill the hole left in your heart by the missing tree far better than putting it in a pillow case and sleeping on it, IMO. 

Then have at it. You should donate this yourself if you feel that strongly.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum for me to donate a large amount of money when you have no idea what my charitable contributions are otherwise. 

[Nigel 2,843]

6 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

If you are truly re-investing it all back into another tree(s) then that's cool too. 

For Christ's sake, let's not start judging the guy over what plans he has for the money. We all at some time or another in our lives (inheritance, casino, fantasy championship, insurance claim) come into some money we didn't necessarily "earn". We should always fork it over to charity? Cut the ####.

[belljr 8,205]

BEZOS DOESNT DONATE ENOUGH

[The Iguana 2,107]

2 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Then have at it. You should donate this yourself if you feel that strongly.

Not sure why you keep beating the drum for me to donate a large amount of money when you have no idea what my charitable contributions are otherwise. 

I'm just a cranky old man. Ignore me. I'll go sit in the corner. 

[bigbottom 8,245]

1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.

And you don’t have to prove negligence or intent. The legal dispute seems pretty close to a slam dunk for you, though the neighbor and the contractor could potentially point the finger at each other. 

[TheIronSheik 6,602]

I hope he takes the 20 grand and uses it all to tip the maid in a hotel.

[[icon] 7,485]

On 10/15/2019 at 10:34 AM, TheIronSheik said:

Am I the only one who thinks the neighbor is full of crap about telling the tree guys not to cut that down?  I'm guessing he thought it would be easier to claim it was an accident then go through the hassle of having to deal with if it could or could not be cut down.  

Me too: good foresight TIS

On 10/15/2019 at 10:39 AM, ChiefD said:

For those of you saying, well, it's just a tree... come on.

A 50 year old tree is no joke. I'd be pissed as hell if my neighbor accidentally cut down my 50 foot oak tree that has been there since 1967.

Exactly 

21 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

9” Tree planted JUST on your side of that line + Balance in cash as Damages seems fair.
 

End result should be you getting as close to comparable a tree in that spot (and fully on your land) as possible. If for not other reason than this dude clearly doesn’t want a big tree there and is being shady/manipulative about it. 

[greedygoat 443]

22 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

That tree is likely going to be valued at around $5-6K. Somewhere between that and say $10K would be reasonable. If he can get some comparable valued trees for less, then I don't care how much he spends if it's less. 

For example, I found a 9 inch oak or Maple is about $4250. If he offers to put a couple of those, I'd probably be fine with it. One probably not enough. That's about where I am now but willing to listen to what he proposes.

It also depends on my wife who is currently on the sidelines with this but will have lots to say when this gets to that point. 

If he starts offering $1-2K, I'm going to start asking for $15K. So it really is up to his next move.

Based upon his prior behavior, I would bet he's closer to 2K than $4250 X 2.  I think you are handling this whole situation perfectly and wish you the best outcome possible.

[TheIronSheik 6,602]

4 minutes ago, greedygoat said:

Based upon his prior behavior, I would bet he's closer to 2K than $4250 X 2.  I think you are handling this whole situation perfectly and wish you the best outcome possible.

I think he's going to offer a coupon book with over $500 worth of discounts in it.  

[Osaurus 7,033]

Good surveys make good neighbors 

[Dr. Octopus 10,206]

8 minutes ago, TheIronSheik said:

I think he's going to offer a coupon book with over $500 worth of discounts in it.  

a charitable contribution to the Human Fund in gianmarco's name for the win.

[TheIronSheik 6,602]

16 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Me too: good foresight TIS

[beer 30 2,019]

35 minutes ago, The Iguana said:

15K given to a food pantry or to something like Chance For Hope will fill the hole left in your heart by the missing tree far better than putting it in a pillow case and sleeping on it, IMO. 

Man you had me right up to here

[coyote5 1,111]

  God bless strangers on the internet who know how best to spend your money

[eoMMan 4,785]

45 minutes ago, greedygoat said:

Based upon his prior behavior, I would bet he's closer to 2K than $4250 X 2.  I think you are handling this whole situation perfectly and wish you the best outcome possible.

I think you're being greedy here.

[bryhamm 733]

Based on this guy's track record, going to guess that he lies about what the arborist says it's worth (like 60% of it), but will say that seems low and will offer something north of that but still lower than the arborist amounts (like 80-90%).  That way it looks like he is looking out for you.

[gianmarco 19,105]

1 hour ago, [icon] said:

Me too: good foresight TIS

Exactly 

9” Tree planted JUST on your side of that line + Balance in cash as Damages seems fair.
 

End result should be you getting as close to comparable a tree in that spot (and fully on your land) as possible. If for not other reason than this dude clearly doesn’t want a big tree there and is being shady/manipulative about it. 

I see what you did there.

Yeah, part of me doesn't see him starting there either.

But, at the same time, I don't think the guy is dumb and you don't get to his position with his experience without having some smarts and common sense.  I would hope by this point he realizes that I've been doing my homework on this matter.  He should realize that I've gotten my own appraisal, warned him to leave the tree there until that was done, pushed for a survey, AND happened to find the company he spoke with regarding this tree already, etc.  He almost certainly knows the law regarding this given his occupation and, at this point, realize that I probably do too. 

If so, he's hopefully smart enough not to start with some ridiculous lowball offer, which $1-2K would be.  Unfortunately for him, I've wasted a good bit of time already on this matter trying to get things done in a timely fashion before the tree was gone and I was stuck with a he said/she said type matter.  Because of that, I don't plan on a lot of back and forth with him.  If he starts reasonably, I'd like to just get it done and end it there.  If he starts stupid low, then I'm pushing for the max and will be letting him know I know what I'm entitled to.

The fact of it is, he wouldn't just be on the hook for $15K if I pushed this legally.  It could be far, far more if I pushed the replacement value aspect of this which I would be entitled to.  I currently have no intention of going there but I will if I need to.

Edited October 17 by gianmarco

[gianmarco 19,105]

Of note, I was just out on a run.  I'm in a park and I hear a chainsaw for a minute or so and then the sound of a large tree crashing down.  Just shaking my head wondering why I'm getting trolled.

[ChiefD 13,311]

9 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

Of note, I was just out on a run.  I'm in a park and I hear a chainsaw for a minute or so and then the sound of a large tree crashing down.  Just shaking my head wondering why I'm getting trolled.

That was me. Sorry. I'll head back to KC now. 

GOTCHA! 

[AAABatteries 18,349]

4 hours ago, ChiefD said:

I think the orange dot means you are gonna fook him over. 

Gian dodged a bullet with it being orange and not blue

[ProstheticRGK 3,363]

3 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Just for reference

Boundary tree:

When the tree trunk is divided by the property lines of two or more people, it is referred to as a "boundary tree." In the case of a "boundary tree," all of the property owners own the tree and share responsibility for it. Tree removal without the consent of all the property owners is unlawful.

Missouri? Oh, man, that's a game changer. Get your $20k and move.

[ProstheticRGK 3,363]

2 hours ago, TheIronSheik said:

I think he's going to offer a coupon book with over $500 worth of discounts in it.  

No charity is going to take a coupon book.

[nirad3 1,817]

4 hours ago, arrow1 said:

I applaud @gianmarco for keeping this thread moving...

Right, basically the polar opposite of Big Tex.  

[gianmarco 19,105]

Just now, nirad3 said:

Right, basically the polar opposite of Big Tex.  

It's been hard making all this stuff up but I'm doing my best

[BroncoFreak_2K3 2,073]

48 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

Missouri? Oh, man, that's a game changer. Get your $20k and move.

Show Me The $$ #####!!!

Edited October 17 by BroncoFreak_2K3

[Oracle 20]

3 hours ago, Nigel said:

For Christ's sake, let's not start judging the guy over what plans he has for the money. We all at some time or another in our lives (inheritance, casino, fantasy championship, insurance claim) come into some money we didn't necessarily "earn". We should always fork it over to charity? Cut the ####.

Oh, FFS....Except from the getgo the OP was looking for a payout and he has not owned his little ***** behavior!

[ffweasel 251]

23 minutes ago, nirad3 said:

Right, basically the polar opposite of Big Tex.  

Has there ever been any update on WhatsAppGate?