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The Democrats need to wake up! Update: And near the last second, THEY HAVE (2 Viewers)

Perhaps if the Dems didn't do silly things like pursue an impeachment when it should have never been pursued, they wouldn't be in this position.

A lot of energy wasted in the impeachment thread in this very forum is a prime example of misguided strategy and politics.   

Or perhaps trying to convince the world that Obamacare has lived up to its promises is another failed strategy.   Just admit your mistakes and convince us your going to actually do something to improve American lives, because from where I'm standing, one party is dominating the other in that respect...and it's not the Democrats dominating.

Americans want results, not hopes and dreams.
I don't agree with anything you wrote but I'm certain pursuing impeachment was the right thing to regardless if it didn't get the traction it needed.  It was an impeachable offense.

 
It doesn't matter whether or not that's true.  That's the narrative that is going to be driven and campaigned upon and there are no shortage of people ready to eat it up.
Fatguy covered it.  The focus needs to be on a lack of wage increases for most Americans, credit card debt being the highest since the Great Recession, the burdens of rising health care costs and education expenses, etc.
Wealth disparity as well.  It's been increasing for some time, but it really ramped up after the tax cuts.

 
I don't get the hysteria.  The primaries are there for a reason, to get the nation's consensus on the candidate (barring interference from the DNC).  Once the nominee is picked, get behind whomever it is and run hard against Trump.

I don't think any of the candidates facing Trump have anything to fear running against him, except being called some childish name.  Any of them could win with the weight of the party (and lots of independent and conservative folks that don't appreciate Trump) behind them.

The southern minority angle is way overrated.  The socialism angle is way overrated.  LOTS of people who have never voted D before will this election for one reason and it won't matter who the D nominee is.

 
4. As much as I have tried to prop Joe Biden up he’s made one bonehead move after another. Why did he stay silent so long on the Hunter accusation. Why doesn’t he explain himself? Worst of all is the lack of energy he displays. We’re not even at our first primary yet and he’s so wounded I no longer have any idea what he’ll be like as the nominee. 
Hmm...who has been saying this for almost 2 years now?  :coffee:

 
I don't get the hysteria.  The primaries are there for a reason, to get the nation's consensus on the candidate (barring interference from the DNC).  Once the nominee is picked, get behind whomever it is and run hard against Trump.

I don't think any of the candidates facing Trump have anything to fear running against him, except being called some childish name.  Any of them could win with the weight of the party (and lots of independent and conservative folks that don't appreciate Trump) behind them.

The southern minority angle is way overrated.  The socialism angle is way overrated.  LOTS of people who have never voted D before will this election for one reason and it won't matter who the D nominee is.
Right.   Hillary thought so too.  And at the time she was a sure thing for the democrats.  

Good plan. Go with that 

 
I’m amazed by all of the optimism of some of you in here.  This election is, by all intents and purposes, already over.  Only a recession between and now and November could change the game imo, and given the propensities of the Fed and where inflation is running at, the probability of that is essentially zero. 
 

The Dems and their supporters at this point should be focused on keeping the House, and hoping to make some progress on the Senate.

 
1. Bernie Sanders is not going to beat Donald Trump.
Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Jeb Bush.  Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Marco Rubio. Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Ted Cruz. Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Dennis Kascich.  Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Rand Paul. Donald Trump wasn't going to beat RIck Santorum.  Donald Trump wasn't going to beat Hillary Clinton. The Democrats weren't going to take back the House in 2018.

While I'm not a Bernie guy (I'm more than likely going to vote for him if he wins the Primary)…..he has money, he has enthusiasm, and he'll have a large number of EC votes already locked up.....and while I don't necessarily respect their commitment to voting; he looks to have resonance with young potential voters.  If they go to the polls.....he can win.  

 
The DNC and their friends in the media will do what they can to stop Sanders.  If Sanders managed to get the nomination, they would covertly back Trump.  

 
The Kentucky governor race is the blue print. It's up to this circus whether to follow it or not. Tell actual swing voters how you will make their lives better and you can win. Don't and you may not. 

 
All right I’m a very optimistic person and I’ve tried to maintain that optimism throughout this election cycle but I’m finally fed up. I’ve said many times that Donald Trump should not be difficult to defeat, and I still tend to believe that, but the Democrats have made it much more difficult due to unforced errors. 

The Iowa mess is only the tip of the iceberg. In one sense I don’t really care; screwups in counting votes in February is not going to kill us in November. But in another sense it’s emblematic of an overall incompetence and poor thinking that is going to lead to Trump’s re-election. Let’s go over this again: 

1. Bernie Sanders is not going to beat Donald Trump. Full stop. It’s not going to happen. A few days ago I wrote that if he’s the nominee he might have a 40-50% chance but that was being very generous. Bernie will lose because his biggest support largely comes from states that are already in the blue column: New York, California, Massachusetts, etc. The “coasts”. In the states that matter, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, he won’t win, because those voters don’t want Medicare 4 All and they don’t want socialism. 

2. Liz Warren is Bernie lite. She can’t win either for most of the same reasons. 

3. Buttigieg can’t get enough black votes to win the nomination. All he can do is take away votes from the other moderate candidates which makes a Bernie candidacy more easy. 

4. As much as I have tried to prop Joe Biden up he’s made one bonehead move after another. Why did he stay silent so long on the Hunter accusation. Why doesn’t he explain himself? Worst of all is the lack of energy he displays. We’re not even at our first primary yet and he’s so wounded I no longer have any idea what he’ll be like as the nominee. 

5. Amy Klobuchar says all the right things but has no traction whatsoever. If she comes in 4th in Iowa where is she expected to make her move? She’s almost a non entity at this point. 

6 Bloomberg’s plan appears to be working, but will he destroy the Democrats by winning it? He’s come in late and if he succeeds the narrative is going to be that a billionaire bought himself a nomination. Are progressives like AOc going to be able to put aside their resentment and vote for Mike Bloomberg? I have my doubts. 

No idea how this all plays out but we’re not off to a great start. Get it together! Time is a wasting. 
So what exactly would make you happy? Mitt Romney? Hilary Clinton, the most centrist who ever centristed, literally lost to Donald J Trump, yet somehow that is the wall we need to keep slamming into in order to win? It feels like more than anything you are desperately seeking the weakest possible do nothing Democratic candidate that will allow you to keep all of the accumulated Republican policy from the last 40 years which you seem pretty attached to, while still pretending to be better than Republican voters because you did not vote for Trump. Just vote for Trump and then lie to your friends. There, I saved you a thread. 

 
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Didnt bernie win wisconsin and michigan against hillary?

Pretty sure he won easily in WI. 
I've hated this argument ever since the Hillary people were making it in the '08 primary. How you perform in a primary tells you very little about how you'll perform in November with a very different electorate.

I do happen to think Bernie would probably do better than most people expect in the Midwest. I'm just not sure his performance in the 2016 primaries is the reason.

 
when Tim inevitably takes the other side and tells us Biden is unelectable we can :slaphands: 
Agreed....if the claims around here are true (that a lot of people really don't like Trump's attitude and approach, think he's not on the up and up morally but do like his economic policies and held their noses and voted for him) they have an obvious alternative in Bernie who doesn't carry all that moral baggage and childish approach.  Bernie's philosophy is tailor made for the likes of Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Ohio.  

 
To me it comes down to Steyer or Bernie.  Joe Biden needs to go away, he's got too much Hillary stink on him.  Buttigieg isn't electable because he's gay.  It's that simple.  

 
So what exactly would make you happy? Mitt Romney? Hilary Clinton, the most centrist who ever centristed, literally lost to Donald J Trump, yet somehow that is the wall we need to keep slamming into in order to win? It feels like more than anything you are desperately seeking the weakest possible do nothing Democratic candidate that will allow you to keep all of the accumulated Republican policy from the last 40 years which you seem pretty attached to, while still pretending to be better than Republican voters because you did not vote for Trump. Just vote for Trump and then lie to your friends. There, I saved you a thread. 
No idea how you got this from what I read. 

I thought I was pretty clear in the OP but...I want to see Trump defeated. I will support any way to do that. I don’t think Bernie Sanders can do it. I don’t think Warren can do it. I don’t think Buttigieg can win the nomination. 

That leaves Biden and Bloomberg. Whoever can take out Bernie before the convention, that’s who I’m for. But given Bernie’s momentum I don’t know if either can. 

 
I think some of you need to pay attention to how Jeremy Corbyn did in his last election against Boris Johnson. Because I think that’s where we might be headed if it’s Sanders vs Trump. 

 
Perhaps if the Dems didn't do silly things like pursue an impeachment when it should have never been pursued, they wouldn't be in this position.

A lot of energy wasted in the impeachment thread in this very forum is a prime example of misguided strategy and politics.   

Or perhaps trying to convince the world that Obamacare has lived up to its promises is another failed strategy.   Just admit your mistakes and convince us your going to actually do something to improve American lives, because from where I'm standing, one party is dominating the other in that respect...and it's not the Democrats dominating.

Americans want results, not hopes and dreams.
:goodposting:

Nailed it. The Dems are doing nothing to improve the daily lives of Americans, they are too busy telling you want you are supposed to be outraged over that doesn’t impact your daily life. Then if you don’t they insult you. Cool party. 

 
Yes, and @GoBirds has repeated this lie over and over and never responds to the point about McConnell. At this point it’s the equivalent of trolling. 
Because it’s a bunch of ridiculous stuff they passed that they knew wouldn’t make it through the Senate. Boehner and the crew did the same thing with Harry Reid in the Obama years. So yes, boff sidez!

The difference is that back then Republicans didn’t spend 9 months trying to impeach Obama spending every minute on every news channel entirely focused on that. 

 
Did we really need a new topic rehashing the moderate/progressive Dem debate? Hasn't this sort of already been done? By the same person who posted the OP?

Ay de mi.

 
A little off topic.....but what kind of VP candidate would Bernie choose if he were to win? 
I've been kicking this around too.  Not sure I know the answer but here's my thoughts on a few...

Sherrod Brown - Would be a great fit and would help with Ohio but the SJWs would smash him for choosing a white male running mate

Tulsi Gabbard - Strong sanders ally, popular with progressives, woman of color make her a good fit but Hillary probably poisoned that well with her conspiracy theories.

Barbara Lee - Really good fit except she's 73 

Elizabeth Warren - Would help align a lot of the split progressive vote and bring more "moderates" to the table, but how would two progressives from the northeast play in the south and midwest?

Nina Turner - Perhaps Sanders' closest ally but I almost wonder if she might be a better fit for something like DNC chair

My guess - Stacy Abrams maybe?  I'd be lying if I said I was confident in that though

 
Because it’s a bunch of ridiculous stuff they passed that they knew wouldn’t make it through the Senate. Boehner and the crew did the same thing with Harry Reid in the Obama years. So yes, boff sidez!

The difference is that back then Republicans didn’t spend 9 months trying to impeach Obama spending every minute on every news channel entirely focused on that. 
No the difference is that back then the House tried to overturn Obamacare 50 times. And the current “ridiculous stuff” you just mentioned includes infrastructure, drug pricing, gun control. It’s a nonsense comparison. 

 
Did we really need a new topic rehashing the moderate/progressive Dem debate? Hasn't this sort of already been done? By the same person who posted the OP?

Ay de mi.
Yes. We really do. Because if we don’t go the right way here we lose the election. 

 
Because it’s a bunch of ridiculous stuff they passed that they knew wouldn’t make it through the Senate. Boehner and the crew did the same thing with Harry Reid in the Obama years. So yes, boff sidez!

The difference is that back then Republicans didn’t spend 9 months trying to impeach Obama spending every minute on every news channel entirely focused on that. 
Please list out which bills are ridiculous stuff?  Even "a bunch" would be great.

Acting as if congress did nothing else but try to impeach is completely illogical and untrue.  Its an accusation that should have stopped long ago.  The facts do not bear out what you are saying.

Link

Congress has only enacted 68 bills and resolutions into law, according to Congress.gov. The last divided Congress — a Republican House and Democratic Senate under President Barack Obama — turned nearly 300 bills and resolutions into law between 2013 and 2014.
Another link

“It's 5,595 pages,” she continued. “We’re not including appropriations and other bills that will be passed. These are important bills that have come here to make a difference in people’s lives and Mitch McConnell has chosen not to act."

“It’s incredibly important to understand that 9 out of 10 of these bills, 90 percent of this stack, is bipartisan,” added Stabenow, who was joined at the conference by Reps. David Cicilline (D-R.I.), Ted LieuTED W. LIEUFBI director says foreign disinformation campaigns 'never stopped' after 2016 electionsDemocratic lawmaker dismisses GOP lawsuit threat: 'Take your letter and shove it'Democratic lawmaker says Nunes threatened to sue him over criticismMORE (D-Calif.), Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.) and Matt Cartwright (D-Pa.).

Some of the bills featured in the stack include the Equality Act, the Violence Against Women Reauthorization Act and the Raise the Wage Act

 
Yes. We really do. Because if we don’t go the right way here we lose the election. 
I'm all-in for a moderate Democrat garnering the nomination because I don't want the party to lurch leftward should they win. It just seems like the same argument has been made ten times and people have already settled into their camps regarding who they want the nominee to be.

Seems fruitless, that's all. 

 
I’ve compared Sanders to George McGovern and Jeremy Corbyn, and Chait discusses the Corbyn analogy. But he also mentions Barry Goldwater in 1964 and perhaps this is the best analogy at all. This is not really similar to Trump in 2016; it’s true that both candidates are populist, but Bernie is an ideologue and his supporters have a puritanical ideological fervor that Trump’s movement lacks. That’s why it compares to Goldwater. 

 
I’ve compared Sanders to George McGovern and Jeremy Corbyn, and Chait discusses the Corbyn analogy. But he also mentions Barry Goldwater in 1964 and perhaps this is the best analogy at all. This is not really similar to Trump in 2016; it’s true that both candidates are populist, but Bernie is an ideologue and his supporters have a puritanical ideological fervor that Trump’s movement lacks. That’s why it compares to Goldwater. 
Goldwater only became likeable later on though. To most, he was a scary conservative from AZ who loved the bomb. Sanders is likeable and seemingly unthreatening now. The question I have for Sanders supporters is regarding what on earth he'll do with foreign policy? Not just the platform, but we're committing day-to-day assassination strikes against a nebulous enemy and doing so in a nebulous fashion with nebulous definitions involving what a state actor is. Mostly to silent world approval. How is he going to approach that? 

 
Because it’s a bunch of ridiculous stuff they passed that they knew wouldn’t make it through the Senate. Boehner and the crew did the same thing with Harry Reid in the Obama years. So yes, boff sidez!

The difference is that back then Republicans didn’t spend 9 months trying to impeach Obama spending every minute on every news channel entirely focused on that. 
Meh...HR1 is filled with a ton of stuff that would be great for us as individual Americans.  Of course it also has things that would allow voting to be easier, so it won't see the light of day, but let's pretend it's not there and the process isn't being abused.  Disgusting now, disgusting under Reid.  This isn't how this is supposed to be working.

 
And what am I missing with the comparison to Corbin?  Doesn't seem accurate knowing how unpopular Corbin is even in his own segment.  His support is generally luke warm from his "supporters" and many can't stand him...hold their nose and vote for him kind of thing.

 
Yes, and @GoBirds has repeated this lie over and over and never responds to the point about McConnell. At this point it’s the equivalent of trolling. 
Dropping some truth on you isn't trolling and I'm pretty sure no one in here knows what's sitting on McConnell's desk so please stop repeating it because it sounds cool. 

 
Because it’s a bunch of ridiculous stuff they passed that they knew wouldn’t make it through the Senate. Boehner and the crew did the same thing with Harry Reid in the Obama years. So yes, boff sidez!

The difference is that back then Republicans didn’t spend 9 months trying to impeach Obama spending every minute on every news channel entirely focused on that. 
:goodposting:

 
Dropping some truth on you isn't trolling and I'm pretty sure no one in here knows what's sitting on McConnell's desk so please stop repeating it because it sounds cool. 
I'm pretty sure anyone can find out what's setting on McConnells desk if they want to. It's not like they don't keep records of this stuff.

 
Dropping some truth on you isn't trolling and I'm pretty sure no one in here knows what's sitting on McConnell's desk so please stop repeating it because it sounds cool. 
:confused:  

It's public knowledge on the House and/or Senate website.  Or is this one of those dumb "gotcha....it's not literally sitting on his desk" shtick thingy majigs?

 
Dropping some truth on you isn't trolling and I'm pretty sure no one in here knows what's sitting on McConnell's desk so please stop repeating it because it sounds cool. 
What? I know exactly what bills the House passed last year and haven’t been taken up by the Senate. It’s pretty easy to look up. 

 

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