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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (2 Viewers)

Pretty damned interesting Washington Post article:

I get it!

Or, to quote the jubilant Tony Soprano in the desert dawn, after waking

next to his own Little Miss Sunshine: "I GET IT!" I've heard the Word,

and the message is: Tony dies.

How do I know? Because one single image from last week's finale of "The

Sopranos" had dogged me, pestered me, miffled me for days: The shot from

the final scene immediately after Tony enters the eatery -- as the

jump-cut allows us to view this father at a table, surrounded by a dozen

or so diners.

That extreme horizontal framing. That central figure bathed in light.

Those four framed rectangles in the background, with people all around.

Finally, it hit me like a bolt from the black. (As capo Bobby Bacala

said on the boat this season: You probably won't even see/hear it

coming.) Series creator David Chase, like Coppola and Scorsese and other

great religion-steeped directors, was invoking a centuries-old painting

that depicts a biblical scene.

That's right. His Last Scene is . . . The Last Supper.

Doubting my own eyes for a minute (hel-lo, Paulie Walnuts), I asked two

other people to compare the painting and the screen image, and they --

eerily -- saw it, too. Eureka.

The Chasean catch: His shot looks less like da Vinci's depiction and

much more like the 15th-century "Last Supper" painting by Andrea del

Castagno, right down to the red-frocked person immediately flanking the

central figure.

Once the viewer makes that connection, all the religious references,

like tumblers, click into place. Of course, we must be mindful of

Chase's earlier caveat that everything is upside-down in the dark and

dying world -- or rather, Underworld -- of "The Sopranos." Tony Soprano,

the God/Father, has lorded over a crew of disciples, he's just endured a

betrayer (Carlo), and now he sits at the table of corruption, having

converted his children for good.

Rough beast slouching toward Bethlehem, indeed. Herewith, the show's

Twelve Cinematic Clues:

1. In a previous scene, Tony mocks Paulie Walnuts for seeing the Virgin

Mary at the Bing. (Fun unrelated touch, btw: "Italian Sausage" sign is

partially obscured to read: "Italian USA" -- a whole other show-theme.)

2. In another walk-up scene, the wife of Silvio lovingly tends and

tidies her comatose husband's feet (nice Mary Magdalene moment).

3. Immediately before entering the diner, Tony's identity is denied by

his Uncle Junior. (Tony: "You don't know who I am, do you?")

4. Tony then enters Holsten's diner (swell allusion to famed Swedish

theologian Holsten Fagerberg, he of the Lutheran confessions).

5. To start the family's literal last supper, Tony orders a

bread-and-wine Eucharist "for the whole table" (though the "made in the

USA" version: onion rings and soda).

6. After looking at such song titles as "Magic Man (Live)" -- twice --

on the tabletop jukebox, Tony selects "Don't Stop Believing."

7. Wife Carmela (perfect name) enters and asks him: See anything that

looks good? (Sound the trumpets of Genesis.)

8. Tony tells Carmela that his betrayer, Carlo (the one earlier seen

eyeing the roast pork at the wake), is "going to testify."

9. Over Tony's shoulder, we clearly see a name on the wall: Phillip

(name-checking one of Christ's disciples, naturally -- make whatever you

will out of "Super Dave.").

10. The menacing Mystery Man in the Members Only jacket walks in after

we've heard the third bell; Chase has acknowledged that his Members Only

reference (also an episode title this season) is symbolic of being a

member of the mob -- that is, one of the Godfather's disciples.

11. Each of Tony's children are "finally" career-corrupted in this

episode: the parking-challenged Meadow, after many moral stops and

starts (switching from healer to future defender of mob-connected folk);

A.J. after agreeing to produce the would-be Antichrist's script,

"Anti-Virus." And, significantly, they arrive at the table separately,

of their own volition. (Carmela the Realtor -- she was once tempted by a

priest -- of course earlier cashed her last moral chips by selling her

not-built-to-spec house with help from Tony; minutes earlier, we'd seen

her looking over a home brochure.)

12. And Chase -- as HBO confirms -- originally wanted to conclude the

series with a full three minutes of cut-to-black screen. As in, the

three minutes of silence commonly observed to mourn a victim -- and

perhaps representing the three days before Christ's rising as the Bible

describes.

So textured. So layered. So Coppola. And (if one pathetically can't

recall his art history for days), perhaps so damned subtle.

So render unto David DeCesare Chase what is his: A delicious last meal

of a scene stuffed and battered with religious imagery. Only here, at

the center of the table of underworld conversion, Chase has cast a

rough, end-times beast who fatally pinched Christopher (again, perfect

name).

So to connect the dots: If the Last Supper was on the eve of Christ's

arrest and imminent death, then Chase is indicating that Tony Soprano's

death is imminent, too.

So there you have it. For those who cared most about that ultimate plot

point, we have rendered sure cinematic judgment: Tony dies. (Do you care

to deny us, Mr. Chase?) Now, the only remaining question: Will Tony be

risen on the big screen?
And check out the photos in this link!

Holy :thumbup:

 
Fascinating article, RN. I wouldn't put anything past Chase.
Yeah, man. That blew me away. The past nine days, I have been swimming in theories which are so absurd and mind-numbing. It was refreshing to see an article which was so well thought out, clever and backed up with detailed analysis. :thumbup:
 
Just recieved the finale explanation below from a friend a mine via email...no author, just the text below. I'm not sure if it's been posted and I'm not sure I buy it...but thought I'd pass it along for the entertainment value.

The ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all

the ending was simple, he got killed, but let me tell yall why and explain in detail... There was 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony.....

the two black guys, they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, this was in one of the earlier seasons,

also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is Nikki leotardo, Phil Leotardos nephew, he was in one of the early season episodes where Phil and Tony have a sit down....

heres where the genius comes in....

When tony ' s walking in the diner,you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking @ the booth hes gonna sit at...

then the camera switches back to tonys face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking @ the door and looking @ the people come in..... Everytime the door opens the Chimes sound....... Carmela walks in, Chimes, AJ walks in Chimes, this when Meadows parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant....

at this point the camera switches back to the trucker who goes in the bathroom......

Then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner....

the doors about to open, Tony looks up....

and No Chimes......................

No Music............

Everything just goes black...............

In one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tonys talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die..

Bobby says "at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black"

part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the

last seconds of it, when tonys about to go to sleep and he flashes

back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "You probably dont

hear anything everything just goes black"

so in the end, the Journey song was playing, the chimes on the door

sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the trucker hat came out

and killed tony...

its the reason you aint hear, or see when he died.... it was

from his perspective.... and everything went black, then the credits

rolled...
Tony looked at the guy multiple times, you don't think a man who in danger of being killed wouldn't notice the nephew of a guy he just had whacked sitting at the counter? Give me a break.
 
My latest thought is that the Bobby stuff was relevant, but it wasn't Tony that was whacked but the show. We thought something was going to happen, but the show was killed.

Complete roundup on my blog - http://slashstar.com/blogs/tim/archive/200...ies-finale.aspx

Another recent theory I heard, which would explain some of my complaints about cheesiness.

Tony falls asleep last week in a barren room. No sheets on bed, no alarm clock, nothing. When he apparently wakes up, there are sheets on bed, a mirror, an alarm clock with music going off. None of that was in the end of last week's show. Tony dreams the whole last episode. A.J getting settled, Phil going down and agent harris cheering for him, Meadow becoming a lawyer and getting married. In the end, he sees himself sitting at the table. He is dreaming of having dinner with his family. Its ends when tony wakes up from his great dream. When A.J. says during the episode, "you are all living in a dream", that is a clue. sheets on bed, A.J's comment, and tony seeing himself at the end are all clues that the show really ended last week. This weeks episode was all a dream.
I had thought about this. It just seems like everything was wrapped up too easy- like it was Tony's dream for how he could escape the mess. Ofcourse, I doubt Tony would dream up an impending trial for himself.
 
Wow, that's an amazing article. Especially the part about Tony wearing the same design of shirt as when Junior shot him.

 
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With the most recent theories posted, this thread suddenly got a lot more interesting.
I still don't know why Members Only guy would've killed Tony, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that that is what Chase intends for us to believe happened. Too much evidence mounting up, especially that 2nd article.
 
http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/

Not sure if that has been posted yet, but it is a damn good read.
Brilliant. Just wish he'd stop saying "My bad"...... :thumbup: He makes a point of saying that Michael killing Solozzo and McCluskey was Tony's favorite part of The Godfather - as A.J. also mentioned after he tried to knife Uncle June - but in season 1 when Paulie and P-u-s-s asked him the same question, he said his favorite scene was when they went back to Don Cicci's villa (though technically that would be in GFII)....

 
With the most recent theories posted, this thread suddenly got a lot more interesting.
I still don't know why Members Only guy would've killed Tony, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that that is what Chase intends for us to believe happened. Too much evidence mounting up, especially that 2nd article.
There's no reason for it. Chase did a smart thing fading to black: If Member's Only guy had come out of the bathroom and shot Tony everybody would have compared the scene unfavorably to the Godfather.Additionally, after the initial shock wore off, everybody would start saying "umm, WHY did the Member's Only guy recreate a scene from the Godfather in the Soprano's finale?"Having no good answer for that, Chase lets imaginations run wild, and nobody can ask those questions, because nobody REALLY knows it happened. Although they can make themselves feel better by noticing things about orange lighting.
 
I'm convinced Tony got whacked.
I'm warming up to that, I just don't know why he would have. :wub:
Any chance Butchie (or someone else in NY) set-up Phil and Tony. They used the secret meeting to allow Tony to move-in and whack Phil (who was reckless and bad for business). With Phil gone, the clear move was to whack Tony as "revenge" and to create a situation where Butchie can swallow up all of NY and NJ.orIt was obvious Phil was not happy with Butchie's efforts to have Tony whacked. Perhaps Phil personally called in somebody else, outside of the Lupertazzi family to have Tony whacked. Members Only wasn't working for Butchie and thus would not have received word the hit was off. He tailed Tony all day and for unknown reasons, made his move at the diner (seems like a poor spot, especially after sitting at the counter for 5 minutes). That is the best I've got.
 
With the most recent theories posted, this thread suddenly got a lot more interesting.
I still don't know why Members Only guy would've killed Tony, but I'm finally coming around to the idea that that is what Chase intends for us to believe happened. Too much evidence mounting up, especially that 2nd article.
There's no reason for it. Chase did a smart thing fading to black: If Member's Only guy had come out of the bathroom and shot Tony everybody would have compared the scene unfavorably to the Godfather.Additionally, after the initial shock wore off, everybody would start saying "umm, WHY did the Member's Only guy recreate a scene from the Godfather in the Soprano's finale?"Having no good answer for that, Chase lets imaginations run wild, and nobody can ask those questions, because nobody REALLY knows it happened. Although they can make themselves feel better by noticing things about orange lighting.
Chase created the perfect set-up and left no payoff. It really is more interesting that way. All the clues are there to point to Tony's death, but with no body, we've got no case...just speculation.
 
DO NOT and I repeat, DO NOT click on the blue eyeballs. It is not only NSFW, it is just flat-out NS.
Richie got some o' that action!And Ralphie.

And Bobby.

And some roadies.
and they are all now dead.
One got shot and fed through a meat grinder.One got choked out and dismembered.

One got shot and ruined a perfectly good train set.

And the roadies? Where are they now?!?!?!

 
So Chase put Who Dey in the scene on purpose! The dude in the Members Only jacket probably had to change into his Who Dey costume in the bathroom first.

Interesting read - definitely makes all of the Kennedy references (only Catholic President) as well as the assassination references stand out that much more.

-QG

 
http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/

Not sure if that has been posted yet, but it is a damn good read.
:thumbup: Just watched the opening scene and the last 10 minutes again for the first time since it was live, and it is amazing what you notice now after reading the above article:

The opening shot of Tony posed like he's in a coffin, with funeral music coming from the alarm (I even said it sounded like funeral music the first time I heard it, but didn't notice the camera shot)...the Last Supper-esque shot...the words from Journey playing as Carmella is shown sitting down...the bulge in the Members Only jacket and the obvious difference in the way he holds his left arm...the way they eat their onion rings...the way the MO guy looks at Tony...the way Tony's attention is completely turned away from the bathroom at the end...

Great stuff!

 
Random orange note - happened to see the A&E rerun where Chris avenges his father. Afterward, when he's in his mom's kitchen, there's a refrigerator magnet that is an orange and white cat.

:thumbdown:

-QG

 
FYI, I am not sure how relevant it is, if it was planned, or whatever, but the pilot episode, following the normal intro and song, does not fade from black to the start. It goes from suddenly black to suddenly seeing Tony sitting in Melfi's waiting room. The switch is jarring, just like the end of Made In America, only in the opposite direction. IIRC, almost every other Sopranos episode fades in from black.

 
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David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
Sorry.What is Tony Soprano's son's name?
 
David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
"Remember Pearl Harbor"
 
David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
Sorry.What is Tony Soprano's son's name?
What was the first and last lines uttered in the series?
 
David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
Sorry.What is Tony Soprano's son's name?
What was the first and last lines uttered in the series?
I think the first was "Mr. Soprano"
 
David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
Sorry.What is Tony Soprano's son's name?
What was the first and last lines uttered in the series?
I think the first was "Mr. Soprano"
Asked as a question, yes. The last line was "I ordered for the table."
 
David Chase appeared in one episode of The Sopranos.Without cheating, can you tell me when we saw him?
Italy, scoffed at paulie while having coffee:rant:
;) Hit ME with some Sopranos trivia, tough guy. :rant:
What advice does Paulie give to Tony B. when he finds out he's going into business with a Korean?
A tad obscure, but.... :own3d:
Sorry.What is Tony Soprano's son's name?
What was the first and last lines uttered in the series?
I think the first was "Mr. Soprano"
Asked as a question, yes. The last line was "I ordered for the table."
Nope.
 
A couple things about some recent posts:

I really think the article on The Last Supper is reaching a bit. It's like how people read random horoscopes in the newspaper or those stupid chain emails and think its talking about them.

Tony waking up in different clothes w/ an alarm clock just means that a few days have passed between the 2 episodes, which I though was obvious just from the episode itself.

If ANYthing was a dream it was the entire season i.e. Tony didnt survive the gunshot - but I dont believe this.

I'm still firmly believe Tony is alive. The episode/season was about how everything has changed AROUND Tony/mob. His kids are growing up, albeit AJ is still all of the things bad about Tony (panic attacks, depressed, and just doing whatever HE wants w/ built in excuses). Little Italy is only a block long now, Carlo has flipped (the mob isnt like it was in his dad's days). Tony, however, hasnt changed. His worries havent changed. He cares about his family, but he cares about his "family" more. His head is always on a swivel and he always has to worry about who is coming through the door next. The entire scene is people just going about their business and people enjoying being with their company. tony, however has to worry about every person in that room and every person coming through that door and every person in his inner circles everyday for the rest of his life.

 
A couple things about some recent posts:I really think the article on The Last Supper is reaching a bit. It's like how people read random horoscopes in the newspaper or those stupid chain emails and think its talking about them.Tony waking up in different clothes w/ an alarm clock just means that a few days have passed between the 2 episodes, which I though was obvious just from the episode itself.If ANYthing was a dream it was the entire season i.e. Tony didnt survive the gunshot - but I dont believe this.I'm still firmly believe Tony is alive. The episode/season was about how everything has changed AROUND Tony/mob. His kids are growing up, albeit AJ is still all of the things bad about Tony (panic attacks, depressed, and just doing whatever HE wants w/ built in excuses). Little Italy is only a block long now, Carlo has flipped (the mob isnt like it was in his dad's days). Tony, however, hasnt changed. His worries havent changed. He cares about his family, but he cares about his "family" more. His head is always on a swivel and he always has to worry about who is coming through the door next. The entire scene is people just going about their business and people enjoying being with their company. tony, however has to worry about every person in that room and every person coming through that door and every person in his inner circles everyday for the rest of his life.
100% sure he's dead.
 

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