⚽ Soccer Match-day Thread (8 Viewers)

[B Maverick]

fwiw... I thought degea was worse on the 2nd goal. 1st was a tough, reaction save right on top of him with bodies in the box... it squirted through his arm and body, which happens. yeah, could've done better, but it happens. 2nd was right in front of him without any distractions... just completely miscalculated getting down and the parry. and it wasn't exactly a blistering shot- decently struck, but nothing that should trouble even the most average EPL GK.

for whatever reason (and matic doesn't help in this regard), chelsea looked faster on, off and to the ball. was surprised that bruno was mostly invisible- figured he'd dominate kova and pull the strings to free up some of what's been a lethal United attack. but none of them were really firing on the day. and yeah- credit should go to the chelsea players for stepping up and having good games when they needed to... which could be argued was at least part of why United struggled.

The first could be forgiven with the calamity of defending that lead to it.  But if you are the top paid keeper and striving to be #1 in the world, you should do better.  I was more upset with Matic and McGuire on that one.  Plus, Martial was fouled at the other end and nothing given.  Couldn't tell if it was on the line or not but the refs missed that.

Bruno was given the Hazard treatment.  He was put on the floor often in the first half.  Chelsea did a good job of breaking up the play with small fouls all over.  Sadly, the ref encouraged it.  19 fouls and no yellows for Chelsea? Pogba fouls one person (and not even that bad a foul) and gets a booking.  

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the ref was the reason.  United did not deserve that game at all.  Just frustrating to see Mike Dean and VAR Michael Oliver continue their poor form.

 

[B Maverick]

Well let's see.....United been playing with 4 in the back since, well, I can't recall them not playing with 4 in the back since signing Maguire.  But for this one, Ole decides to start 3 CB's.

And they've been primarily the same lineup the past 5-6 games, but this time he decides to rotate out both Martial (who's been in great form since the restart) and Greenwod with James and Brandon Williams.  So, Rashford instead of pairing up with the dangers wingers who have gotten him space, has nothing with him.  I expected Matic to start, and he was just fine, but Ole #### the bed here by not only rotating completely too much, but changing formation for no apparent reason whatsover. 

Shaw as unavailable, fine.  Fosu Mensah was.  Dalot was (but for some inane reason didn't even make the bench).  

Williams was the worst player on the pitch, by far and tbh, I hope he never plays another game for United again.  Ever.  NEVER EVER.

And why Ole decided to start DeGea is another head scratcher.  

I am with you except for Williams.  I think he has a future and love his attitude.  He was poor yesterday, very poor.  But I disagree on him being sent out. 

And Dalot seems to be out of favor and headed for an exit. And yes, Romero should have been in there.

 

[El Floppo]

The first could be forgiven with the calamity of defending that lead to it.  But if you are the top paid keeper and striving to be #1 in the world, you should do better.  I was more upset with Matic and McGuire on that one.  Plus, Martial was fouled at the other end and nothing given.  Couldn't tell if it was on the line or not but the refs missed that.

Bruno was given the Hazard treatment.  He was put on the floor often in the first half.  Chelsea did a good job of breaking up the play with small fouls all over.  Sadly, the ref encouraged it.  19 fouls and no yellows for Chelsea? Pogba fouls one person (and not even that bad a foul) and gets a booking.  

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the ref was the reason.  United did not deserve that game at all.  Just frustrating to see Mike Dean and VAR Michael Oliver continue their poor form.

VAR wouldn't be used unless it was in the box though, right? The martial kick was pretty clearly not in the box.

You're right...Kova in particular was kicking Bruno up and down the field. I did think Bruno was going down lightly a bit much- which the ref may have been taking into account in terms of no cards. But there were countless moments of Kova giving the "what did I do?" look after taking Bruno down...it was enough to warrant the yellow for persistent fouls for sure. I don't recall the play exactly, but I don't remember feeling like Pogba got slighted on the yellow.

Did Rashford try switching to the right? James was just on it on the day and could match everything Rashford was giving, wouldve made sense to try his luck against Az for a bit.

ETA... Don't know which player it was who didn't cover the runner on the first goal- but they let him easily slide down the line to make that cross to Giroud. And the CB kept him onside.

 

[B Maverick]

VAR wouldn't be used unless it was in the box though, right? The martial kick was pretty clearly not in the box.

You're right...Kova in particular was kicking Bruno up and down the field. I did think Bruno was going down lightly a bit much- which the ref may have been taking into account in terms of no cards. But there were countless moments of Kova giving the "what did I do?" look after taking Bruno down...it was enough to warrant the yellow for persistent fouls for sure. I don't recall the play exactly, but I don't remember feeling like Pogba got slighted on the yellow.

Did Rashford try switching to the right? James was just on it on the day and could match everything Rashford was giving, wouldve made sense to try his luck against Az for a bit.

ETA... Don't know which player it was who didn't cover the runner on the first goal- but they let him easily slide down the line to make that cross to Giroud. And the CB kept him onside.

I thought it was boarderline on the line, but could be wrong.  Should have still been a free kick. But yes, if not a PK, then VAR wouldn't look.

Rashford didn't seem to be in the game at all.  James gave an effort but wasn't getting service.   I don't recall them switching. 

Williams went to ball, Matic stayed next to Williams, McGuire stayed in the middle.  No one went with the runner.....

 

[El Floppo]

I thought it was boarderline on the line, but could be wrong.  Should have still been a free kick. But yes, if not a PK, then VAR wouldn't look.

Rashford didn't seem to be in the game at all.  James gave an effort but wasn't getting service.   I don't recall them switching. 

Williams went to ball, Matic stayed next to Williams, McGuire stayed in the middle.  No one went with the runner.....

Fwiw, I was talking about Reece James for Chels, who shut down that MU left side. 

 

[B Maverick]

Fwiw, I was talking about Reece James for Chels, who shut down that MU left side. 

Oh right, oops.  I don't think the front 2 did much switching.  Rashford didn't seem in the game at all and monstly stayed to the left.  

 

[encaitar]

I thought it was boarderline on the line, but could be wrong.  Should have still been a free kick. But yes, if not a PK, then VAR wouldn't look.

Rashford didn't seem to be in the game at all.  James gave an effort but wasn't getting service.   I don't recall them switching. 

Williams went to ball, Matic stayed next to Williams, McGuire stayed in the middle.  No one went with the runner.....

The foul was about a step outside the box.  Should've been a dangerous free kick, but it wasn't a penalty, so I can see why VAR couldn't do anything.  

The difference between Rashford and Mount in this game was stark.  I've always considered Rashford more talented.  He's definitely a better scorer, but Mount's pressing ability is arguably more important in a game between two great teams like this.  Both teams were attempting to build out of the back and Mount was relentless in harassing United's defenders.  Rashford, while he did press, certainly didn't seem to put the same pressure on that Mount and Willian did.

It felt like Chelsea's press was so determined that United players had to know where they were gonna pass it before they even received the pass, while many times Chelsea's defenders could receive the ball and take a look before passing.  It made a huge difference in who looked comfortable with the ball and who didn't.

Yep.  It felt like those extra time minutes after Bailly went off, that United's defenders didn't quite adjust to the 2 man backfield as quickly as they should've.  I don't think Giroud would gotten in front of Maguire for that one if Maguire was still playing in a 3 CB formation.  Once they switched though, it seemed like they were a step slow in finding their assignments.  

 

[B Maverick]

The foul was about a step outside the box.  Should've been a dangerous free kick, but it wasn't a penalty, so I can see why VAR couldn't do anything.  

The difference between Rashford and Mount in this game was stark.  I've always considered Rashford more talented.  He's definitely a better scorer, but Mount's pressing ability is arguably more important in a game between two great teams like this.  Both teams were attempting to build out of the back and Mount was relentless in harassing United's defenders.  Rashford, while he did press, certainly didn't seem to put the same pressure on that Mount and Willian did.

It felt like Chelsea's press was so determined that United players had to know where they were gonna pass it before they even received the pass, while many times Chelsea's defenders could receive the ball and take a look before passing.  It made a huge difference in who looked comfortable with the ball and who didn't.

Yep.  It felt like those extra time minutes after Bailly went off, that United's defenders didn't quite adjust to the 2 man backfield as quickly as they should've.  I don't think Giroud would gotten in front of Maguire for that one if Maguire was still playing in a 3 CB formation.  Once they switched though, it seemed like they were a step slow in finding their assignments.  

Even before Southampton showed what a high pressure high press game could do to United, I knew their defenders needed to pass quicker.  All of them are slow on the ball and the passing is lumbering.  Even Matic at times.  It isnt until they break forward and the attacking 5 get on the ball that things start to move.  The danger of a high press vs United is all it takes is 1 ball and they are gone.  Unfortunately, without Martial, Pogba and Greenwood, the counter was missing.  Chelsea exploited that and was able to keep an organized back line. 

It does look like United needs an actual left footed CB so McGuire can move to the right.  Someone with pace.  This will help, but also so will moving the ball quicker, and the occasional long goal kick to back the opponent up.

They also don't seem to have a former defender on as a coach.  The coaching staff is all MF and Attackers.  You can see the improvement up top, but not at the back.  May be something to look into as well.  

 

[AAABatteries]

Williams was poor but so was essentially everyone.  Ole got the whole thing wrong, IMO.  And I’m serious - I’m not sure Pogba should ever be used as a sub.  Honestly, that display from the whole side was so ugly yesterday that I’m ready to sell Pogba and De Gea if you can get value.

Yes, I’m totally overreacting.

 

[encaitar]

Williams was poor but so was essentially everyone.  Ole got the whole thing wrong, IMO.  And I’m serious - I’m not sure Pogba should ever be used as a sub.  Honestly, that display from the whole side was so ugly yesterday that I’m ready to sell Pogba and De Gea if you can get value.

Yes, I’m totally overreacting.

Maybe so, but I think Bruno makes Pogba leaving a possibility, and Dean Henderson has played so well this year for SU, that I could see United being tempted to get $80M for De Gea and going with the young gun.  It makes a lot of sense, especially if that money is then used for Sancho.

 

[B Maverick]

Williams was poor but so was essentially everyone.  Ole got the whole thing wrong, IMO.  And I’m serious - I’m not sure Pogba should ever be used as a sub.  Honestly, that display from the whole side was so ugly yesterday that I’m ready to sell Pogba and De Gea if you can get value.

Yes, I’m totally overreacting.

I'd be ok with De Gea going.  Henderson and Romero are a good tandem.  

Maybe so, but I think Bruno makes Pogba leaving a possibility, and Dean Henderson has played so well this year for SU, that I could see United being tempted to get $80M for De Gea and going with the young gun.  It makes a lot of sense, especially if that money is then used for Sancho.

De Gea's wages and form may make it hard to sell.  He is the highest paid GK.

As for Pogba, I would like him to stay.  Bruno has allowed him to just go and play, and its shown, aside from yesterday.  United needs depth, the gap from their top team to the rest is so big.  Sancho, Graelish, DCM and a CB would be a great haul.  But you can't also let Pogba go and build that depth.  I would be good if he stays 1 more season, then the next window they look to replace him.

 

[Jaysus]

Pogba as a sub is the worst Pogba.  

ETA: GFB RLC tho

 

[B Maverick]

CR7 the first to score 50 goals in the EPL, La Liga AND Serie A

 

[ydoc]

gb whiny united fans...

 

[El Floppo]

Villains!

 

[Mookie]

Villains!

Not many of us Villa fans.  That was a HUGE win, but could still be relegated even if we beat West Ham in London.  Hopefully Arsenal have some fight left at home and can give Watford a right ol' thumping!  

 

[The Gator]

Big day.  Watford drop into the bottom-3 on goal differential, and Aston Villa move out of the relegation zone.

Should make for a fun final day on Sunday.

 

[El Floppo]

Not many of us Villa fans.  That was a HUGE win, but could still be relegated even if we beat West Ham in London.  Hopefully Arsenal have some fight left at home and can give Watford a right ol' thumping!  

My club coach age 12-16 was from Birmingham. we went to Europe to play in the Norway and Dana Cups at 16, but landed in England and trained at AV with their youth coach for the better part of a week to acclimate.

They set up a game for us against some local team. My host family told me it was ok to lose to them...they were quite good. We won 12-0, leaving them scrambling. Ended up playing the AV u16 team and tying them 1-1.

Tbh, at the time I had no idea Villa was even a pro team...had never heard of them (in spite of a sweet youth training ground complex). But have always have had a soft spot for them since then. Really nice people too, innit.

 

[El Floppo]

Big day.  Watford drop into the bottom-3 on goal differential, and Aston Villa move out of the relegation zone.

Should make for a fun final day on Sunday.

As a neutral, this is everything we can hope for...the season coming down to the last day for a bunch of teams.

 

[El Floppo]

But would've been amazing to see the home fans react to that game...

 

[Mookie]

My club coach age 12-16 was from Birmingham. we went to Europe to play in the Norway and Dana Cups at 16, but landed in England and trained at AV with their youth coach for the better part of a week to acclimate.

They set up a game for us against some local team. My host family told me it was ok to lose to them...they were quite good. We won 12-0, leaving them scrambling. Ended up playing the AV u16 team and tying them 1-1.

Tbh, at the time I had no idea Villa was even a pro team...had never heard of them (in spite of a sweet youth training ground complex). But have always have had a soft spot for them since then. Really nice people too, innit.

Nice.  I lived in London for a few years in the 70's.  The first youth team I played for in the Park league was Aston Villa and I loved their kit - been a fan ever since but it's been painful. Come on you Villains!

 

[CletiusMaximus]

As a neutral, this is everything we can hope for...the season coming down to the last day for a bunch of teams.

10 simultaneous games on Sunday. This could be fun. I can hardly wait to see the dress Rebecca has chosen for the occasion.  
 

 

[AAABatteries]

United's result today will make things interesting.  Any points puts pressure on Leicester to get a victory Sunday.  I think the scoreline that makes Sunday the most interesting is a 2-0 win for United today or any loss United.  Lots of permutations though.

 

[El Floppo]

United v West Ham at 1

Liverpool vs Chelsea at 3

Chels- 63pts (vs Wolves next)

United- 62 +28 (vs LC next)

LC- 62 +28 (vs United next)

 

[Poke_4_Life]

Big day.  Watford drop into the bottom-3 on goal differential, and Aston Villa move out of the relegation zone.

Should make for a fun final day on Sunday.

Also of note, Spurs are now guaranteed to finish ahead of Arsenal...  yet again.  

Really want Spurs to at least get top 6 to get into EL.  

 

[Poke_4_Life]

SKC with a quick start this morning.  Busio is playing in the midfield for all you USMNT guys.  

 

[The Gator]

United v West Ham at 1

Liverpool vs Chelsea at 3

Chels- 63pts (vs Wolves next)

United- 62 +28 (vs LC next)

LC- 62 +28 (vs United next)

Maybe not as glamorous, but the "fight" for Europa League spots will extend to August 1. 

Wolves - 59 +13 (vs. Chelsea)

Spurs - 58 +14 (vs. Palace)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Arsenal 53 +7 (vs. Chelsea in FA Cup Final)

One of Chelsea, Man United, Leicester will drop to 5th and get the Automatic bid to Europa 

If Wolves beat Chelsea, Wolves will get 6th, Spurs will get 7th

If Wolves lose to, or tie, Chelsea, and Spurs beat Palace - Spurs are 6, Wolves 7

If Wolves lose to  Chelsea, and Spurs tie Palace - Spurs will get 6th on goal-differential.

If Arsenal beat Chelsea in FA Cup Final - they will replace the 7th place team in Europa League.

 

[B Maverick]

My club coach age 12-16 was from Birmingham. we went to Europe to play in the Norway and Dana Cups at 16, but landed in England and trained at AV with their youth coach for the better part of a week to acclimate.

They set up a game for us against some local team. My host family told me it was ok to lose to them...they were quite good. We won 12-0, leaving them scrambling. Ended up playing the AV u16 team and tying them 1-1.

Tbh, at the time I had no idea Villa was even a pro team...had never heard of them (in spite of a sweet youth training ground complex). But have always have had a soft spot for them since then. Really nice people too, innit.

I playe din the Norway and Dana Cups when I was 18 (was in 92 after Denmark shocked the Euros with a title).  While in Norway we saw Arsenal play Leads and United play Lilistrom

United's result today will make things interesting.  Any points puts pressure on Leicester to get a victory Sunday.  I think the scoreline that makes Sunday the most interesting is a 2-0 win for United today or any loss United.  Lots of permutations though.

If United win 5-3 today and then lose 1-0 on Sunday, there will be a playoff between United and Leicester since they will be level on all the tie breakers. Assuming Chelsea gets any points from their last 2...

United v West Ham at 1

Liverpool vs Chelsea at 3

Chels- 63pts (vs Wolves next)

United- 62 +28 (vs LC next)

LC- 62 +28 (vs United next)

I hate rooting for Liverpool but I have too.....

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I'm so excited for Liverpool supporters today, getting to enjoy that long-awaited celebration of this historic title-winning season.  I expect the main senior players have already begun their celebrations and are looking forward to the warm-up act, hopefully featuring a full team of academy prospects.

 

[B Maverick]

Lineup is in, 1 surprise with Fosu-Mensah on the right for Wan-Bissaka.  AWB needs a rest.  The rest is as expected with Williams starting with Shaw out.  Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba, Matic, Lindelof, Macguire and De Gea fill out the lineup.

Need to bounce back from Sunday's debacle and win this game.  

 

[Poke_4_Life]

If that wasn't a PK, I was ready to throw VAR out the ####### window.

 

[encaitar]

What the hell was Pogba doing?

 

[The Gator]

What the hell was Pogba doing?

Have you seen De Gea recently?  Do you blame Pogba for trying to help?

 

[B Maverick]

I don't think Pogba saw it and then reacted.  Still should have just headed it. Stupid play

Definitly a PK despite the guy diving to get the free kick that lead us here....

 

[encaitar]

I don't think Pogba saw it and then reacted.  Still should have just headed it. Stupid play

Definitly a PK despite the guy diving to get the free kick that lead us here....

Wait... is a fan who has Bruno Fernandes on his team complaining about diving?  

 

[The Gator]

I don't think Pogba saw it and then reacted.  Still should have just headed it. Stupid play

Definitly a PK despite the guy diving to get the free kick that lead us here....

Per the rules - it was an obvious hand ball.

But, given the emphasis on head injuries, I would not be opposed to a future rule change that allows players to protect their heads from a direct shot like that.  I know iToughGuys would say just stick your head in there - but that shot could have caused a concussion.  Players should not have to put themselves at risk in that situation.

 

[B Maverick]

Wait... is a fan who has Bruno Fernandes on his team complaining about diving?  

 was waiting for that....

(and I'll call him out for diving too)

Per the rules - it was an obvious hand ball.

But, given the emphasis on head injuries, I would not be opposed to a future rule change that allows players to protect their heads from a direct shot like that.  I know iToughGuys would say just stick your head in there - but that shot could have caused a concussion.  Players should not have to put themselves at risk in that situation.

You used to be able to protect your face on those (and other parts) with your arms.  I think his arms were to far from his head to allow that.  

And do you think it was intentional?  Only law on the books that requires it to be intentional for a foul is handball.

 

[encaitar]

 was waiting for that....

You used to be able to protect your face on those (and other parts) with your arms.  I think his arms were to far from his head to allow that.  

And do you think it was intentional?  Only law on the books that requires it to be intentional for a foul is handball.

I think he'd have been fine if he wasn't 12 yards from the strike.  I don't think Pogba intended it, but no ref is going to let that go when you put your hands into the ball that far away from the strike.  If he'd been paying attention, he could've easily avoided the ball to the head.

 

[AAABatteries]

I don't think a win here does anything for United, right?

Unless they score 3 goals in the last 8 minutes

 

[encaitar]

A win would make it more difficult on Chelsea.  A draw here and Chelsea only need 1 point in their final two to guarantee top 4.

 

[AAABatteries]

Assuming I'm correct I do wonder if the players on the pitch know it.  They don't seem to be pushing for a goal but they also aren't doing a great job taking care of the ball.

 

[AAABatteries]

A win would make it more difficult on Chelsea.  A draw here and Chelsea only need 1 point in their final two to guarantee top 4.

Good point - wasn't thinking about Chelsea - that would be a fun twist - United 2 draws and Chelsea 2 loses - think that has United and LC get the spots, right?

 

[The Gator]

 was waiting for that....

(and I'll call him out for diving too)

You used to be able to protect your face on those (and other parts) with your arms.  I think his arms were to far from his head to allow that.  

And do you think it was intentional?  Only law on the books that requires it to be intentional for a foul is handball.

I think his problem was he was ducking and raising his hands - so that when the ball hit his hands they were over his head - and you can't call that a "natural position."

 

[AAABatteries]

I think his problem was he was ducking and raising his hands - so that when the ball hit his hands they were over his head - and you can't call that a "natural position."

Yep, he's an idiot. 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

C. Pulisic starts on the bench for Chelsea.  Maybe that long run of games every 3-4 days was not a good idea.  Chelsea have the same lineup they used against United on Sunday except at GK.

I just had two important but extremely distracting work calls scheduled at 2:30 and 3:00 CT today - suboptimal.

 

[B Maverick]

A lot rides on Chelsea Liverpool, but a United win would have made a lot of things easier and 3rd more realistic and put pressure on Chelsea and Leicester

A win or draw vs Leicester means CL for United.

WHU draws and is safe in the EPL for next year.

 

[Jaysus]

West Brom sure is screwing the proverbial pooch right now... looks like Brentford is going to get the 2nd automatic promotion spot . I would love to see them in the Premier League.  Leeds (Leeds Leeds) on the other hand are taking care of fn business today!

ETA: and I jinxed them... Brentford is losing now and West Brom tied up their match. 

 

[B Maverick]

Better performance then the weekend.  Didn't get to focus on the game but their great interplay going forward seemed lacking and a bit off.  Some selfishness we hadnt been seeing.  

Biggest takeway is the need for depth of talent to be able to rotate players and challenge on all fronts.  Their top XI is good enough, but their second team is not.  And if you can't rotate and play at a high level, you cant compete.

 

[The Gator]

Naby!

@Bluto Blutarsky

 

[Jaysus]

Fans are shooting off fireworks outside of Elland Road right now... it sounds like Leeds (Leeds Leeds) is playing in a warzone