⚽ Soccer Match-day Thread (3 Viewers)

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I feel like the deflected ball back should have taken Hwang to an onside position.

Only two possibilities as far as I know...

1) they ruled that Hwang lurking at the back post for the tap in was involved in the play. I kind of agree with this one since even if he were the only Wolf involved in the 6-yard box defenders would believe they had to clear the ball. Which is pretty much the definition of "involved". But I've been alone on that island for years -- the refs never call it that way and I'm roundly mocked for my beliefs -- so I'm guessing that's not it.

2) they ruled that the deflection was not an intentional playing of the ball. Unintended deflections don't reset things. It's pretty hard to see what actually happens there, and when they were showing the replays during the game I had no idea what I was looking for, so it's hard to say on that one. But at a glance it seems pretty iffy.

[ETA: Salah's goal should have been ruled out for #1 above as well. The defender knows Salah has made the run, doesn't know he's off, and plays the ball off his head straight to Salah as a result of believing he has to prevent the ball from going through. See above for refs disagree, mockery, etc.]

 

[B Maverick]

I feel like the deflected ball back should have taken Hwang to an onside position.

Only two possibilities as far as I know...

1) they ruled that Hwang lurking at the back post for the tap in was involved in the play. I kind of agree with this one since even if he were the only Wolf involved in the 6-yard box defenders would believe they had to clear the ball. Which is pretty much the definition of "involved". But I've been alone on that island for years -- the refs never call it that way and I'm roundly mocked for my beliefs -- so I'm guessing that's not it.

2) they ruled that the deflection was not an intentional playing of the ball. Unintended deflections don't reset things. It's pretty hard to see what actually happens there, and when they were showing the replays during the game I had no idea what I was looking for, so it's hard to say on that one. But at a glance it seems pretty iffy.

[ETA: Salah's goal should have been ruled out for #1 above as well. The defender knows Salah has made the run, doesn't know he's off, and plays the ball off his head straight to Salah as a result of believing he has to prevent the ball from going through. See above for refs disagree, mockery, etc.]

1) Difficult to determine he was involved when the ball never got by the near post and he was at the far. Plus its a sideways pass, not forward. Again I ask, did the law change?
2) So blocking a cross is now not intentional? Ok, but regardless, I do not see how the deflection has any bearing. A new "phase" starts when the Wolves player plays it forward (after the deflection) and Hwang is onside at that point.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Difficult to determine he was involved when the ball never got by the near post and he was at the far.

This is how most people apply the rule.

A new "phase" starts when the Wolves player plays it forward (after the deflection) and Hwang is onside at that point.

I think this is right, so pretty much has to be the first.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Feels like a lot of other conversations I've had about MLS...

Me: Can you cite any quantitative evidence that the quality of play is higher in MLS today than DC United or the LA Galaxy played in the 1990s?

Drunk Uncle ChatGPT: There is no one specific quantitative metric that can be used to compare the quality of play between teams from different eras. However, there are several statistics that can be used to indicate the overall level of play in the league. Here are a few:

• Points per game: The average number of points per game earned by teams in the league has increased over time. [not proof the league has improved -- points/game is zero sum]
• Goals per game: The average number of goals per game scored in the league has increased over time, indicating that teams are more attacking and creating more scoring opportunities. [not proof the league has improved -- good leagues often score fewer goals/game than bad ones.]
• Pass completion: The pass completion rate has increased over time, indicating that teams are playing with more precision and accuracy.

Me: What specific statistical evidence is there that the passing completion percentage in MLS has risen over the years?

Drunk Uncle ChatGPT: I don't have specific statistical evidence that can demonstrate the passing completion percentage in MLS has risen over the years. However, as the league continues to grow and evolve, it is likely that the passing completion percentage has also improved.

 

[AAABatteries]

United allowing City to possess it in their half all the want. Flooding the midfield and are man-marking KDB. Making the City CBs be playmakers. Seems to be working - I think United has had the better chances although neither side has created much.

 

[AAABatteries]

Dammit - looks like Rashford may have injured his groin. He’s the only guy scoring consistently so him possibly being out is bad news.

 

[AAABatteries]

I thought United looked better but wasn’t sure if I was being too rosy.

https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1614250512961912832?s=20&t=_OnaUhbpNDqmPnxSVzvdnQ

The xG Philosophy

https://mobile.twitter.com/xGPhilosophy
@xGPhilosophy

HT: Man Utd (0.83) 0-0 (0.10) Man City

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I think United has had the better chances

They've certainly been the better team.

 

[AAABatteries]

Martial off and Antony on. I like Martial but he has to be more influential to get consistent 90 minute runs.

 

[AAABatteries]

I wasn’t sold on it weeks ago but ETH has now played Luke Shaw at CB 3-4 times and he’s been almost flawless. Maguire and Lindelof can’t be too thrilled with that.

 

[AAABatteries]

That why you have to mark KDB.

ETA - Casemiro got duped there pretty good.

 

[AAABatteries]

United have consistently had plays available to them and the quality of their passes is lacking.

 

[AAABatteries]

If they give that goal to United then I think that’s crap - Rashford absolutely impacted the play.

Sorry, but that’s crap. I’d be livid if I was a City fan.

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah, if that one counts, I don't understand the rule. He's clearly off and clearly in the way

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

OMG, someone just shoot me in the face.

Rashford subtly DUMMIES A SHOT as Fernandes runs in and takes it.

It's just beyond ridiculous to say he's not involved in the play. This rule is just so much ****.

 

[AAABatteries]

Yeah, if that one counts, I don't understand the rule. He's clearly off and clearly in the way

Fergie gave the nod from the stands.

 

[TLEF316]

Holy crap

 

[AAABatteries]

Now that goal is a good one - **** yeah!

Unless he was off

 

[AAABatteries]

Brilliant ball from Bruno.

 

[TLEF316]

OMG, someone just shoot me in the face.

Rashford subtly DUMMIES A SHOT as Fernandes runs in and takes it.

It's just beyond ridiculous to say he's not involved in the play. This rule is just so much ****.

Yeah, that was pretty bad

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

ETH is truly the Rashford whisperer.

 

[AAABatteries]

That was an awkward fall for Casemiro trying to take Graelish down.

 

[AAABatteries]

Not sure how to feel - I said it before they changed it, that’s a crap goal to allow. But it legitimately puts United close to title talk and honestly is great news for Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[AAABatteries]

It’s been almost 10 years since SAF retired and I think this is the bullish I’ve been on a United side but we need to slow our roll comparing ETH to SAF. Just let him be himself.

Now to totally go against that - one thing I’ve appreciated with ETH is he gets guys to do a job. Ferguson would plug guys in to roles that were not their natural one and it almost always came off. And guys would sit for games and not look rusty after coming on. Both those are a credit to him.

 

[AAABatteries]

Wow - Everton board of directors told to not attend todays match. Credible threat has been uncovered. That’s crazy.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

As an Arsenal fan, it's good to know that at least this year's collapse will be especially memorable.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Liverpool are a trainwreck.

7 defensive touches and can't bring the ball under control. Ends up with Brighton and 2.5 seconds and 3 touches later it's a 2nd goal. The midfield just can't win or control the ball. It's beyond irritating.

 

[Jaysus]

That was offside AF

 

[AAABatteries]

Liverpool are a trainwreck.

7 defensive touches and can't bring the ball under control. Ends up with Brighton and 2.5 seconds and 3 touches later it's a 2nd goal. The midfield just can't win or control the ball. It's beyond irritating.

Brighton has been good all season but this is embarrassing at the moment for Pool.

 

[AAABatteries]

That was offside AF

I was surprised it wasn’t unanimous in the studio as being the wrong decision. Still seems ridiculous.

 

[encaitar]

Didn't get to watch it live, but just saw the Manchester derby.... Holy ****.

That's the worst decision I've ever seen on that type of play. He wasn't involved? He faked a ****ing shot that caused Ederson to move before Bruno calls him off and he's running between Bruno and Akanji, meaning Akanji has zero chance to try and block the shot.... Guys have been called for offside for standing in a corner of the goal completely out of the play, but a guy who is within a foot of the ball for 10 yards and pulls back his foot on what looks like a fake shot "isn't involved in the play?" Good lord.

 

[titusbramble]

A nervy three points, but still three points. Just got to hope Ndiaye going off is just a minor knock, would take him missing Friday and the Cup game right now

Also sounds like Everton fans are in the mood to burn down Goodison and cause massive improvements to the ground

 

[AAABatteries]

Ignoring the bizarre call, United played that just about perfect.

https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1614272247597768704?s=20&t=kiJJBxGsQBRYg2ls6iWEOA

Man Utd created 1.31(xG) more than Man City today, making it City’s biggest xG league defeat since September 2020.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Petr Cech@PetrCech
The first United goal just proved the people who make the rules don’t understand the game.

Preach, Petr!

It literally punishes the good defenders -- the ones who are aware and reading the play right and reacting to what they're supposed to be reacting to. I know it sounds like schtick, but the stupidity and injustice of this rule makes me insane.

 

[prefontaine]

That's the worst decision I've ever seen on that type of play. He wasn't involved?

Agree this was awful. Honestly it's been an absolute howler of a weekend for EPL refs.

Three game changing calls that they got wrong even with VAR to help
1. Rodrigo dragged down in the box by Douglas Luiz. No penalty
2. Rashford being heavily involved in that tying goal. He's simply not passive. I don't even know how you can argue he was
3. This horrendous pk call on Toney that was reviewed and somehow upheld

Just an absolute horror show. And we're only halfway through the games.

 

[McBokonon]

Newcastle and Fulham was a bonkers game but 3 more Magpie points. Mitro double hit a penalty so it didn’t count and Newcastle turned that momentum into a hard-fought goal from Isak. Might have lost Bruno G, though. He rolled his ankle. Finished the first half but he was clearly hobbled and seemed to be crying as he walked off the pitch. He’s pretty emotional (in a good way) though so maybe he just hated knowing he wasn’t going to finish.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Saka!!

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I read multiple people on Arsenal message boards over summer arguing the team should bin off Odegaard and spend over 50 million on James Maddison. Life is a rich pageant.

Also, it continues to amaze me that the corpse of Hugo Lloris continues to start for both Tottenham AND France.

 

[B Maverick]

The first United goal should not have stood. The glaring part the VAR and ref's missed was that Ederson didn't know who would shoot. He had to react to Rashford who was over the ball and that right there is the influence. The defenders were never going to catch the ball or Rashford so their involvement is irrelevant to me. It affected the keeper and should have been ruled out.

But I'll take it.

Shaw and Varane holding Halaand to 0 shots is a nice day. Never seeing Maguire on the pitch again due to Shaw would also be a nice bonus.

 

[AAABatteries]

The first United goal should not have stood. The glaring part the VAR and ref's missed was that Ederson didn't know who would shoot. He had to react to Rashford who was over the ball and that right there is the influence. The defenders were never going to catch the ball or Rashford so their involvement is irrelevant to me. It affected the keeper and should have been ruled out.

But I'll take it.

Shaw and Varane holding Halaand to 0 shots is a nice day. Never seeing Maguire on the pitch again due to Shaw would also be a nice bonus.

I’m still shocked at that decision - any time you have to dissect the rule so closely and then give your interpretation of it means it’s a poorly written rule and needs to be changed.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The first United goal should not have stood. The glaring part the VAR and ref's missed was that Ederson didn't know who would shoot. He had to react to Rashford who was over the ball and that right there is the influence. The defenders were never going to catch the ball or Rashford so their involvement is irrelevant to me. It affected the keeper and should have been ruled out.

But I'll take it.

Shaw and Varane holding Halaand to 0 shots is a nice day. Never seeing Maguire on the pitch again due to Shaw would also be a nice bonus.

I’m still shocked at that decision - any time you have to dissect the rule so closely and then give your interpretation of it means it’s a poorly written rule and needs to be changed.

The good news for me personally is that I went and read Rule 11 again this past weekend (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside). I'm sure I've read it before, but one thing I either didn't know or had forgotten is the exception for goal kicks, so there's that - I'm smarter now.

Otherwise, I agree the rule is poorly written as to what is commonly referred to as "passive offside" (that language is not from the rule - is just the common phrase used for this situation.) Reading section 2, you can see there's no specific language addressing the Rashford situation - a player approaching the ball and influencing the keeper, but not playing the ball nor interfering with a defender. I've been railing about this like an old man for years - any time a player is offside and standing in the penalty area, he's going to distract and influence the keeper and should be ruled offside. But that's not stated in the rule.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I thought the rule was originally put in to avoid offside where someone way on the other side of the field just hadn't gotten back onside. Like they were literally "not involved" in the play.

It's definitely gotten worse though. The current rule seems to be pretty close to "anything goes as long as the player doesn't touch the ball."

 

[B Maverick]

I thought the rule was originally put in to avoid offside where someone way on the other side of the field just hadn't gotten back onside. Like they were literally "not involved" in the play.

It's definitely gotten worse though. The current rule seems to be pretty close to "anything goes as long as the player doesn't touch the ball."

It's amazing how bad it's become. Used to be if you were on the other side of the field, or walking back toward midfield or even stepped off the endline they would allow for the passive. Then they started allowing passes to run by someone or through their legs and they were still "passive". Now its just don't touch the ball and you are fine? And then to try and balance out all that stupidity they draw lines with VAR to see if your toe nail is off....

Its ridiculous.

 

[gianmarco]

I thought the rule was originally put in to avoid offside where someone way on the other side of the field just hadn't gotten back onside. Like they were literally "not involved" in the play.

It's definitely gotten worse though. The current rule seems to be pretty close to "anything goes as long as the player doesn't touch the ball."

It's amazing how bad it's become. Used to be if you were on the other side of the field, or walking back toward midfield or even stepped off the endline they would allow for the passive. Then they started allowing passes to run by someone or through their legs and they were still "passive". Now its just don't touch the ball and you are fine? And then to try and balance out all that stupidity they draw lines with VAR to see if your toe nail is off....

Its ridiculous.

It's all Michael Oliver's fault.

 

[B Maverick]

Weghorst gets the start vs Palace with Martial hurting again.

Shaw back at LB with Martinez and Varane in the middle.

Maguire on the bench amid rumors Moyes wants him at WHU on loan (to which I say yes please Moyes, take him to make up for Fellaini)

 

[AAABatteries]

They should review that elbow - that was nasty and looked intentional to me.

ETA - finally showed another replay - don’t think it was intentional but deserved a yellow - I know they can’t review that.

 

[prefontaine]

VAR overrules a Cardiff goal because a player was standing in front on the keeper and in the most generous interpretation he impeded the view of the keeper. Shot was a header from about 3 yards away and it's hard to believe it impacted the play as Meslier didn't have any issue seeing it (and the players didn't even appeal).

Given the Manchester United goal over the weekend, it's just terribly inconsistent.

 

[AAABatteries]

Peacock is a ####### ####### piece of ####

 

[AAABatteries]

McTominay is an idiot.

 

[McBokonon]

Olise thunderbolt!