14 yr old shot from 30 ft away;shooter claims Stand Your Ground (1 Viewer)

[T Bell]

Re: shot in the back of the head, I don't find that hypothetical as compelling of an indictment against Landry as some do apparently.

Your head swivels really easily, and the back of your head can be exposed with a quick turn of your head that may not mean you were trying to escape. For example, he may have turned his head to decoy Landry as he was trying to dig something out of his waistband. He may have been looking for a weapon to pick up or throw.

If he's got a gun, maybe he's looking for a place to take cover to shoot back, so if I'm Landry and thinking he's got a gun, I'm taking my shot while he's exposed and not while he's taking cover.

There's just gobs of ambiguity here such that any one piece of evidence doesn't appear like it's going to be definitive.

 

[[icon]]

2. The kid turned to flee, and Landry shot him in the back of the head with a rocket launcher from between his legs.

If we're going to make stuff up, let's at least make it GOOOOD!

 

[kentric]

Not necessary dude. You really need to relax.

Ignorant is implying that your view lacks a gravity toward the current facts of the case, and lacks understanding of the real world scenario surrounding the crime rate in the area, the emotional state involved in a situation like this, realistic understanding of how and why these situations play out how they do... hell you have even shown ignorance as to the time and force required to enter a home by force. I'm not saying ignorant as an insult, per se... I'm merely using it as an adjective to reflect your level of competency in discussing this sort of scenario. Nothing personal, GB.

Relax? I wish you guys could see me, there are about 2-3 folks at my office who have ducked in asking what I'm laughing at. Sent them the link to this thread. They're now as amused as I am at the chaka and kentric show. Carry on please.

Pompous, inflexible and ignorant is a terrible way to go through life son.

This will be my last reply to you my Animal House poster. Carry on.

 

[matttyl]

Wow that post was totally uncalled for.

 

[Clifford]

Not IMO

 

[matttyl]

Not IMO

This coming from the guy who (inappropriately) brought the 5th(or 6th, depending on the count) commandment into this argument?

 

[Doug B]

Pompous, inflexible and ignorant is a terrible way to go through life son.

Everyone is inflexible when it comes to these kinds of cases, though. Individuals reckon such events by their underlying personal philosophies ... no way to reconcile them with someone who fundamentally disagrees. There's no common ground.

 

[[icon]]

Wow that post was totally uncalled for.

Naw I probably had it coming

I stand by my statements though.

 

[Doug B]

This coming from the guy who (inappropriately) brought the 5th(or 6th, depending on the count) commandment into this argument?

Not inappropriate, IMHO. Just not convincing as a debate item. But I beleive Clifford is honest about the basis of his personal values.

 

[matttyl]

This coming from the guy who (inappropriately) brought the 5th(or 6th, depending on the count) commandment into this argument?

Not inappropriate, IMHO. Just not convincing as a debate item. But I beleive Clifford is honest about the basis of his personal values.

Maybe "inappropriate" isn't the proper word. The Bible does state that "killing" may be appropriate, specially in the case of self defense, which is the basis of this case. Personally I don't think it should be brought up at all in this case.

I didn't mean to make any slight against Clifford's personal values - nor would I want anyone to make one against mine. It just seems like many people are making judgements against the HO personal values, which I believe are unfounded.

 

[Doug B]

It just seems like many people are making judgements against the HO personal values, which I believe are unfounded.

Absolutely. No worries, though ... none of this will matter a whit when it really counts -- at Landry's trial.

 

[matttyl]

It just seems like many people are making judgements against the HO personal values, which I believe are unfounded.

Absolutely. No worries, though ... none of this will matter a whit when it really counts -- at Landry's trial.

You assume he's going to have a trial? I'm not even sure that will happen. To me, it's pretty black and white (no pun intended). Maybe all the public backlash (NAACP already looking for the Judge to step down I hear) will cause it to go to trial. Will be interested to see how much support the NAACP will give to this kid who was breaking the law at the time.

 

[Doug B]

You assume he's going to have a trial? I'm not even sure that will happen. To me, it's pretty black and white (no pun intended). Maybe all the public backlash (NAACP already looking for the Judge to step down I hear) will cause it to go to trial. Will be interested to see how much support the NAACP will give to this kid who was breaking the law at the time.

"Going to trial" is kind of the way the winds are blowing.

What public backlash are you referring to? Locally, it's considered pretty open-and-shut -- Landry right, Coulter wrong. No division of opinion along racial lines.

 

[jon_mx]

The NAACP has jumped a whole school of sharks.

 

[matttyl]

You assume he's going to have a trial? I'm not even sure that will happen. To me, it's pretty black and white (no pun intended). Maybe all the public backlash (NAACP already looking for the Judge to step down I hear) will cause it to go to trial. Will be interested to see how much support the NAACP will give to this kid who was breaking the law at the time.

"Going to trial" is kind of the way the winds are blowing.

What public backlash are you referring to? Locally, it's considered pretty open-and-shut -- Landry right, Coulter wrong. No division of opinion along racial lines.

I'm just going by what I read and see in the news, but it looked like the NAACP was going in on this fairly hard, pretty much calling out the judge that allowed bail.

 

[Doug B]

The NAACP has jumped a whole school of sharks.

They're grasping at straws here. The judge, Franz Zibilich, who secured Landry's bond is a family friend of the Landrys, and let Landry defer filing some paperwork upon a verbal promise from Landry to return to the court to complete it (details). This was highly unusual, and wasn't smart of Zibilich given the particulars of the case. Nevertheless, Zibilich will likely not be the presiding judge over the eventual trial (it could come up on his docket, but he'd almost certainly have to recuse himself).

 

[Bonzai]

Henry/Icon, don't mean this in a condescending way, because I hate when people do this, but both of you seem emotionally invested in that this guy made the right call to shoot this intruder. Do you feel that his right to do so, and whether or not he gets exonerated, impacts you personally? IOW, do you want to make sure you have the right to do the same in a similar situation? Would you have wanted to shoot this kid if he were on your property?

No, I'm actually a person who once shot someone.

I identify with what this guy's going through, and while his situation is very, very different from my own, I think it's utter ******** to blame the guy who's having a crime perpetrated on his land, as opposed to the guy who's perpetrating the crime, when somebody gets shot.

Thought you seemed pretty revved up about this topic. Always enjoy your posts. Sorry you had to go through that, man.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Havent we all learned by now....its shoot first ...ask questions after

 

[Rayderr]

Havent we all learned by now....its shoot first ...ask questions after

huh. Judging by this and other threads, I thought it was assume the shooter is guilty of all sorts of atrocious crimes first, ignore facts that come out later.

 

[Henry Ford]

Henry/Icon, don't mean this in a condescending way, because I hate when people do this, but both of you seem emotionally invested in that this guy made the right call to shoot this intruder. Do you feel that his right to do so, and whether or not he gets exonerated, impacts you personally? IOW, do you want to make sure you have the right to do the same in a similar situation? Would you have wanted to shoot this kid if he were on your property?

No, I'm actually a person who once shot someone.

I identify with what this guy's going through, and while his situation is very, very different from my own, I think it's utter ******** to blame the guy who's having a crime perpetrated on his land, as opposed to the guy who's perpetrating the crime, when somebody gets shot.

Thought you seemed pretty revved up about this topic. Always enjoy your posts. Sorry you had to go through that, man.

Yeah, I'm pretty revved up. Mea culpa. I appreciate the kind words. It was a very, very long time ago.

 

[Dr Oadi]

I find it hard to fathom that people assume that the homeowner is a liar and a murderer here, when the person shot is described by his own family as a career criminal by age 14 who's committed multiple thefts and burglaries and who left his house to take out the trash, according to his mother, at 10 pm and just never came back in, and was actively committing a crime at the time he was shot. Why is the immediate assumption "well, that homeowner sure made some bad decisions!" When there are perfectly reasonable and rational reasons for him to have done what he did, including his own story of what happened?

I don't the homeowner is a murderer, and I have no reason to think he is a murderer. I think in all likelihood he acted in accordance with LA castle law and this will be ruled justifiable homicide. I don't think it can be ruled self-defense as he wasn't being attacked and really was not defending his person.I think our laws allow and in turn almost advocate a "shoot first" approach to these situations. I think if our laws changed to make it harder to have a situation such as this ruled a justifiable homicide, then maybe this guy Landry would not have shot as quickly as he did.

I think the kid put himself in a situation where he could get shot. I certainly don't think he is without blame.

This thinking gets under my skin. Not only do I have fear if confronted by a would be attacker this line of thought should get me not only to worry about what this guy will or won't do but have in the back of my mind If I kill or harm this person society is going to send me to prison. That is just well ####ed up.

 

[PatsWillWin]

When I see something that says this figure can kill me from where he is standing, or he makes an aggressive move towards me.

Is this your way of retracting your reaching for a gun statement?

In no way am I retracting anything. I put the "for a gun" in parenthesis for that reason (it's what was perceived by the owner).

So you would wait till you saw a gun? What if he was just pulling it out to throw it on the ground?

Would you wait till he pointed it at you? What if it wasn't loaded?

Would you wait till he fired a shot? What if he wasn't a good shot and you didn't need to worry?

I'll ask again. Specifically at what point do you fire?

This isn't the movies. If you wait till you see a gun, you're likely going to get shot. The guy lost the benefit of the doubt as soon as he jumped the 5' fence onto my property. He makes ANY motion that comes off as threatening when I yell freeze (and that includes reaching for his waistband), then i shoot. Thankfully I am backed by the law. You can disagree till your blue in the face and that's fine. But the law backs my stance, and for good reason.

First of all you need to calm down.

Second, if you are going to keep insisting that the HO perceived a gun, I need a link before I answer anything else from you. Let's see it.

Intruder going to his waistband is not an indication that he "perceived" he had a gun?

Re-read the quote from the HO. The statement reads "made a move, AS IF to reach for something" meaning the HO did not even assert that the kid was reaching for anything.

icon, I can disagree with you about this being a wonderful thing and come from a quite informed perspective. You obviously think that having more freedom to kill someone rather than less is a good thing. You celebrate the fact that you are allowed, by law, to kill someone on your property who is not attacking you, and who has not even shown inclination to attack you. I personally think this is a bad thing that leads to unnecessary use of lethal force when there were other options available.

Well you're right in that sense. If, in fact, the homeowner says he thought the kid was reaching for a toothbrush in his waistband, and shot him because he thinks shooting people is hilarious, then yeah, he's going to be in trouble.

 

[kentric]

It just seems like many people are making judgements against the HO personal values, which I believe are unfounded.

Absolutely. No worries, though ... none of this will matter a whit when it really counts -- at Landry's trial.

You assume he's going to have a trial? I'm not even sure that will happen. To me, it's pretty black and white (no pun intended). Maybe all the public backlash (NAACP already looking for the Judge to step down I hear) will cause it to go to trial. Will be interested to see how much support the NAACP will give to this kid who was breaking the law at the time.

Pretty sure it will go to trial just based as you say on public backlash. People are looking for accountability. Even though (assuming it played out as the HO says and there is no further incriminating evidience) he will most likely be found innocent, this type of thing usually results in a trial. At least, even though the NAACP is involved, it isn't as racially charged as the TM/GZ situation was.

 

[[icon]]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

 

[ATC1]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

 

[Emerson Biggens]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Funny you put this because I almost messaged you yesterday to see if you wanted to go look at pistols! I went to a shop in OB that had a good selection.

 

[[icon]]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

I hear ya. XD9s is a solid carry. I had a M&P Sheild 9 as well (everyone raved about it) but sold it as the single stack mag just felt too small in my hands, plus I shoot lights out with the 26 so it was redundant. I had not heard of that DeSantos but that looks solid. I like the tacky external material on the Remora.. holds great for a clean draw without a clip. Plus the price is right. That said, it's all in finding something comfortable.

For future reference: Great trick for a 2lb trigger on the Glock if you're trying to save the money (rather than paying for a trigger job).

 

[[icon]]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Funny you put this because I almost messaged you yesterday to see if you wanted to go look at pistols! I went to a shop in OB that had a good selection.

If you'd like to test a couple out I'd be more than happy to meet you up at Range USA and let you shoot mine (and can have some buddies meet up with some others). They also allow you to rent for $20 and you can keep swapping out to try a variety of pistols in one session.

What are you looking for...carry? subcompact? 9mm/40/45?

I'm always down to shop or shoot (I hit RangeUSA once a week on my lunch break). Just lemme know.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

i hope nobody attacks you at work...that would suck

 

[Todd Andrews]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

 

[jsharlan]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

So if he was white and 30 years old, he suddenly would be deserving?

 

[Henry Ford]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Agreed. He totally should have asked for ID. Of course, then if the kid reached for his wallet things probably would have gotten dicey.

 

[kentric]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Two questions:

1. Your carve-out is just for black kids or kids in general?

2. What's your definition of "deserving"?

 

[Clifford]

Not IMO

This coming from the guy who (inappropriately) brought the 5th(or 6th, depending on the count) commandment into this argument?

What in the hell are you talking about? The fact that I said Jesus might disagree with the statement that person A killing person B is morally neutral? Shoot the messenger if you want, but he was pretty clear on this issue. Turn the other cheek? Wasn't a commandment, post-dated Moses by quite a bit.

 

[Clifford]

It just seems like many people are making judgements against the HO personal values, which I believe are unfounded.

Absolutely. No worries, though ... none of this will matter a whit when it really counts -- at Landry's trial.

You assume he's going to have a trial? I'm not even sure that will happen. To me, it's pretty black and white (no pun intended). Maybe all the public backlash (NAACP already looking for the Judge to step down I hear) will cause it to go to trial. Will be interested to see how much support the NAACP will give to this kid who was breaking the law at the time.

Pretty sure it will go to trial just based as you say on public backlash. People are looking for accountability. Even though (assuming it played out as the HO says and there is no further incriminating evidience) he will most likely be found innocent, this type of thing usually results in a trial. At least, even though the NAACP is involved, it isn't as racially charged as the TM/GZ situation was.

Cops are saying it was not justified and are asking for murder 2. So it's going to trial because the police that serve this neighborhood believe HO broke the law. Not because of Sharpton.

 

[[icon]]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Agreed. He totally should have asked for ID. Of course, then if the kid reached for his wallet things probably would have gotten dicey.

It's also good that "black kids" know the rules and refrain from shooting people till they're full grown

 

[Clifford]

I find it hard to fathom that people assume that the homeowner is a liar and a murderer here, when the person shot is described by his own family as a career criminal by age 14 who's committed multiple thefts and burglaries and who left his house to take out the trash, according to his mother, at 10 pm and just never came back in, and was actively committing a crime at the time he was shot. Why is the immediate assumption "well, that homeowner sure made some bad decisions!" When there are perfectly reasonable and rational reasons for him to have done what he did, including his own story of what happened?

I don't the homeowner is a murderer, and I have no reason to think he is a murderer. I think in all likelihood he acted in accordance with LA castle law and this will be ruled justifiable homicide. I don't think it can be ruled self-defense as he wasn't being attacked and really was not defending his person.I think our laws allow and in turn almost advocate a "shoot first" approach to these situations. I think if our laws changed to make it harder to have a situation such as this ruled a justifiable homicide, then maybe this guy Landry would not have shot as quickly as he did.

I think the kid put himself in a situation where he could get shot. I certainly don't think he is without blame.

This thinking gets under my skin. Not only do I have fear if confronted by a would be attacker this line of thought should get me not only to worry about what this guy will or won't do but have in the back of my mind If I kill or harm this person society is going to send me to prison. That is just well ####ed up.

Having to be confronted with the thought that you might go to prison for shooting and possibly killing another human being who is not attacking you is too much for you to think about? Could I suggest not going around killing people then? Maybe waiting until you are actually attacked if you want to use self-defense as your reason?

 

[Clifford]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

You posted this to make a point. Is your point "haha, screw all you people afraid of guns, I have one and carry it at work. Nyah nyah?"

If not please let me know what it is.

 

[timschochet]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Two questions:

1. Your carve-out is just for black kids or kids in general?

2. What's your definition of "deserving"?

Here's a third question:

3. Why are you attempting to engage this guy? As usual, he's looking for one-liners that are calculated to piss off the most people. Are you truly expecting some kind of logic here?

 

[Todd Andrews]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Agreed. He totally should have asked for ID. Of course, then if the kid reached for his wallet things probably would have gotten dicey.

It's also good that "black kids" know the rules and refrain from shooting people till they're full grown

I said "prefer".

Those black kids better be quick on the draw....

 

[Clifford]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

i hope nobody attacks you at work...that would suck

Or says "boo" You wouldn't be equipped to respond appropriately to the emotion of fear.

 

[Emerson Biggens]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Funny you put this because I almost messaged you yesterday to see if you wanted to go look at pistols! I went to a shop in OB that had a good selection.

If you'd like to test a couple out I'd be more than happy to meet you up at Range USA and let you shoot mine (and can have some buddies meet up with some others). They also allow you to rent for $20 and you can keep swapping out to try a variety of pistols in one session.

What are you looking for...carry? subcompact? 9mm/40/45?

I'm always down to shop or shoot (I hit RangeUSA once a week on my lunch break). Just lemme know.

That's a great idea, exactly what I need to help me decide. I'm looking for a 9mm, as of now a subcompact, that may change after I fire a few. Looking at their website, that's a cool place. I like the "date night" package, cool idea!

In the next couple weeks, I'm in

 

[Doug B]

Cops are saying it was not justified and are asking for murder 2. So it's going to trial because the police that serve this neighborhood believe HO broke the law. Not because of Sharpton.

Clifford is correct here as far as it goes with outside agitators. So far, this case is largely staying in house.

One of the big things that could have headed off the George Zimmerman circus would have been if he had been arrested right away instead of six weeks later. The NOPD was more savvy in how Landry is being handled (though Landry's $100K bond is a relative pittance)..

 

[StrikeS2k]

Hey guys,

This thread has really slowed down. Tim needs his Trayvon fix but can't post in that thread so can you all pick up the racist angle or something to appease him.

TIA.

 

[timschochet]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

You posted this to make a point. Is your point "haha, screw all you people afraid of guns, I have one and carry it at work. Nyah nyah?"

If not please let me know what it is.

Pretty much, yeah.

I like Icon, but he did the exact same thing in the gun control thread- kept posting that he was inspired to go buy more guns, shoot more guns, etc. It was pretty pointless, but heck, let him have his fun, I suppose.

 

[[icon]]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

i hope nobody attacks you at work...that would suck

Or says "boo" You wouldn't be equipped to respond appropriately to the emotion of fear.

The more you post in this thread, the more your wife's actions in this thread make sense.

 

[timschochet]

Hey guys,

This thread has really slowed down. Tim needs his Trayvon fix but can't post in that thread so can you all pick up the racist angle or something to appease him.

TIA.

Thank you for considering me. Like Mussolini, I need my appeasement from time to time.

 

[Clifford]

Just saying hi from my desk at work with my Remora-holstered Glock 26 tucked under my work shirt/slacks.

Big fan of these holsters... infinitely adjustable height/cant and there is 0% chance you know I'm carrying unless you grab my hip.

Springfield XD9 subcompact here. Well not here. I work in a gun free zone. I have not had problems or discomfort with my De Santos* tuckable IWB holster. It was between my XD and a G26. I liked the XD trigger a little better and felt it fit my grip better.

i hope nobody attacks you at work...that would suck

Or says "boo" You wouldn't be equipped to respond appropriately to the emotion of fear.

The more you post in this thread, the more your wife's actions in this thread make sense.

Wow you really can't discuss this without getting really, really mad can you? So much so you have to bring a completely unrelated thread in which I asked for advice.

 

[Todd Andrews]

I am a gunowner, a warmonger, and a huge fan of killing in general. I just prefer my killing to be of deserving adults of all races. Not black kids.

Two questions:

1. Your carve-out is just for black kids or kids in general?

2. What's your definition of "deserving"?

Here's a third question:

3. Why are you attempting to engage this guy? As usual, he's looking for one-liners that are calculated to piss off the most people. Are you truly expecting some kind of logic here?

1. Kids in general, black kids more specifically

2. "Deserving" can have many definitions for many people depending on the context, my preferred definition is probably legally justifiable

3. Timscrotam, you are a vile disgusting squishy yammering meaningless wordpuking nimrod. Just because I see through your bs and I am willing to call you out on it doesnt mean I will tolerate you trying to falsely denigrate me with demeaning accusations when you, Timsquishyscrotus, are the no soul, no rhythm, black barbershop hanging, both sides babbling, Romney/Obama/everyone/no one saknuzzling, inanity regurgitating, please stop posting, Jesus, make him stop posting, terdburglar extraordinaire of the FFA

 

[[icon]]

That's a great idea, exactly what I need to help me decide. I'm looking for a 9mm, as of now a subcompact, that may change after I fire a few. Looking at their website, that's a cool place. I like the "date night" package, cool idea!In the next couple weeks, I'm in

Sounds good. Just shoot me a PM when you're ready and I'll send ya my cell.

Good choice with 9mm. Cheap to shoot and defense rounds pack as much punch as a .40 with less kick (meaning more likely to hit your target with successive shots in a high stress situation).

Definitely want to shoot Glock 26, Springfield XD9s, and M&P Shield.

Date night is actually fun. Good to get the lady comfortable/competent as well.