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2013/14 UK Basketball (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
- Start date
JustinHawkins
Footballguy
I agree. Like i said before these games, Parker is the most ready now. Carmello comparisons are very accurate. Randle looks like a young Chris Webber. Wiggins...we'll just see. Again, can jump out of they gym, but lots of guys can do that. Don't think he has developed a complete game the way Parker and Randle have. Plus he's got to get a LOT bigger (which in time I'm sure he will)
Soulfly3
Footballguy
What?
Wiggins ####s on these cats defensively. .. and lacks nothing offensively on them either. Wiggins has the highest upside of any of these 3 players, imo.
Yes, he needs to grow a bit, but he's 18. That's what makes him so dangerous. The other 2 are much more matured in their bodies (at the same age), whereas Wiggins will grow more.
Wiggins doesnt get in foul trouble yesterday for his defensive efforts, and he likely outscores all 3 guys in every department. Missed a HUGE chunk of minutes during the game
Cats back in action tonight against 2013 nemesis: Robert Morris
Not much of a contest to start, but some interesting developments. Cal appears to have abandoned a short bench, announcers noting that Cal said he'll expand to a 9-man rotation, and sure enough Marcus Lee got the start, and Dominique Hawkins was in early for Andrew Harrison.
Blow-out game not necessarily good though, some sloppy/lazy play covered up by bad play from Robert Morris. UK still settling for too many quick outside shots.
Not much of a contest to start, but some interesting developments. Cal appears to have abandoned a short bench, announcers noting that Cal said he'll expand to a 9-man rotation, and sure enough Marcus Lee got the start, and Dominique Hawkins was in early for Andrew Harrison.
Blow-out game not necessarily good though, some sloppy/lazy play covered up by bad play from Robert Morris. UK still settling for too many quick outside shots.
Last night's game was not on local tv, and I only caught a little bit streaming, but here is Cal's presser after the game
In a nutshell, he is still looking for better effort from 4-5 guys on the team - notably the Harrisons and Poythress. I thought Aaron Harrison looked a lot better earlier this week - in terms of attitude and hustle on the court, but not sure how he looked last night.
I remember in the 11/12 season, Cal's big mantra was always "If you're not scoring, what else are you doing to help us win?" Its the same message this year - guys are letting a poor shooting night affect other areas of the game. The one thing Cal expects on every play is effort on the defensive end, and right now they are not quite there with the defensive intensity.
Very early season observations:
Randle - still a beast, takes a play off here and there, but he'll put a team on his back if necessary. In deference to TLEF, he does run into trouble in the lane, and needs to understand when to drive, and when to kick it out. But, he can be unstoppable when he puts his mind to it.
Andrew Harrison - given the 1-and-done era, its hard to keep in mind he is just a freshman with only 5 games of experience, but he is not ready to lead a team yet. Too down on himself when he makes a bad play, and seems to be more worried about himself (rumors of tears after the MSU game) than team.
Aaron Harrison - He seems more willing to focus on team, perhaps because he had slightly lower expectations coming in - but I saw more "hustle" plays from him the other night, which suggests he is taking coaching better than his brother.
James Young - aside from Randle, most pro-ready player. A MKG-lite. Was really struggling with his outside shot, but seemed to get on track last night. Plays more team-oriented basketball than the Harrisons, and p;ays with more energy.
Marcus Lee - high energy guy, seems like a deer in headlights at times (or a giraffe on skates). He could use a year of weight training, but I like the effort he brings when he is in the game - just not quite skilled enough to dominate, but he has room to grow at this, or the next, level.
Dakari Johnson - Another guy who could use more strength in the post, playing like you would expect a freshman, but works hard when he's in the game.
Cauley-Stein - When he is focused, he can be a force on the boards, and for some dump-offs under the basket.
Poythress - Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde He suffers a little because the team is not playing like a "team" right now - too much "me" and not enough "we". He is at his best as a complimentary player, where good ball movement creates good shots/mismatches and rebounding opportunities. He is not great at creating his own shot, so he suffers when plays don't develop for him.
Dominique Hawkins - proto-typical freshman point guard - you can see good things, but also see that he is not quite ready to lead a team from the point. He plays well enough on the defensive end that Cal is not afraid to put him in to sit Harrison for a stretch, and because Dominique knows he is low-man on the totem pole, he actually plays well on the offensive end, because he is not looking to score first - so there is better ball movement. But he is not as skilled as the Harrisons, so would not want to rely on him for major minutes, but he will end up being a very key piece to future UK teams as a veteran ball handler. Some of the bigger names on the roster take certain things for granted - Hawkins does not, he knows his minutes depend on effort, and doing the things Cal wants. He'll be a fan favorite for the next 4 years - like a Darius Miller, homegrown player who earns real playing time at UK.
Overall, probably the most skilled 1-9 team in the country. Cal is still in the process of breaking them down - taking longer than the 11/12 team, but I think there are enough pieces here, if they learn to trust each other. The Harrisons, Andrew in particular, really need to mature and understand that if they play team-first basketball, the draft next year will take care of itself. I think they'll get there.
In a nutshell, he is still looking for better effort from 4-5 guys on the team - notably the Harrisons and Poythress. I thought Aaron Harrison looked a lot better earlier this week - in terms of attitude and hustle on the court, but not sure how he looked last night.
I remember in the 11/12 season, Cal's big mantra was always "If you're not scoring, what else are you doing to help us win?" Its the same message this year - guys are letting a poor shooting night affect other areas of the game. The one thing Cal expects on every play is effort on the defensive end, and right now they are not quite there with the defensive intensity.
Very early season observations:
Randle - still a beast, takes a play off here and there, but he'll put a team on his back if necessary. In deference to TLEF, he does run into trouble in the lane, and needs to understand when to drive, and when to kick it out. But, he can be unstoppable when he puts his mind to it.
Andrew Harrison - given the 1-and-done era, its hard to keep in mind he is just a freshman with only 5 games of experience, but he is not ready to lead a team yet. Too down on himself when he makes a bad play, and seems to be more worried about himself (rumors of tears after the MSU game) than team.
Aaron Harrison - He seems more willing to focus on team, perhaps because he had slightly lower expectations coming in - but I saw more "hustle" plays from him the other night, which suggests he is taking coaching better than his brother.
James Young - aside from Randle, most pro-ready player. A MKG-lite. Was really struggling with his outside shot, but seemed to get on track last night. Plays more team-oriented basketball than the Harrisons, and p;ays with more energy.
Marcus Lee - high energy guy, seems like a deer in headlights at times (or a giraffe on skates). He could use a year of weight training, but I like the effort he brings when he is in the game - just not quite skilled enough to dominate, but he has room to grow at this, or the next, level.
Dakari Johnson - Another guy who could use more strength in the post, playing like you would expect a freshman, but works hard when he's in the game.
Cauley-Stein - When he is focused, he can be a force on the boards, and for some dump-offs under the basket.
Poythress - Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde He suffers a little because the team is not playing like a "team" right now - too much "me" and not enough "we". He is at his best as a complimentary player, where good ball movement creates good shots/mismatches and rebounding opportunities. He is not great at creating his own shot, so he suffers when plays don't develop for him.
Dominique Hawkins - proto-typical freshman point guard - you can see good things, but also see that he is not quite ready to lead a team from the point. He plays well enough on the defensive end that Cal is not afraid to put him in to sit Harrison for a stretch, and because Dominique knows he is low-man on the totem pole, he actually plays well on the offensive end, because he is not looking to score first - so there is better ball movement. But he is not as skilled as the Harrisons, so would not want to rely on him for major minutes, but he will end up being a very key piece to future UK teams as a veteran ball handler. Some of the bigger names on the roster take certain things for granted - Hawkins does not, he knows his minutes depend on effort, and doing the things Cal wants. He'll be a fan favorite for the next 4 years - like a Darius Miller, homegrown player who earns real playing time at UK.
Overall, probably the most skilled 1-9 team in the country. Cal is still in the process of breaking them down - taking longer than the 11/12 team, but I think there are enough pieces here, if they learn to trust each other. The Harrisons, Andrew in particular, really need to mature and understand that if they play team-first basketball, the draft next year will take care of itself. I think they'll get there.
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WampusCat43
Footballguy
I caught some of the game last night, and it may have been Willie's best all-around game. Nice inside moves leading to baskets, blocked shots, lots of rebounds in few minutes.
Marcus is just fun to watch. For better or worse - mostly better - things happen when he comes in the game.
Marcus is just fun to watch. For better or worse - mostly better - things happen when he comes in the game.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Put it on 'em, Vikes!
WampusCat43
Footballguy
CSU asst coach whining about officiating. What'd you expect, Corky?
Well, despite a lackluster performance, I think we learned a few things about this team.
At the end of the game, it looked like a dim light finally came on for Andrew Harrison - he still has a ways to go, but maybe he has reached bottom. In the first half, and even into the second half, it was the same old Harrison - too much bad body language, hanging his head after a bad play, complaining to refs about fouls, etc. On one hand its good to see that he cares, but on the other, he needs to understand that he can't run a team if he is constantly worried about a missed shot, or a bad pass. That is his biggest impediment to succeeding on this, or the next, level - way too emotionally immature. Playing point guard for Cal, aside from physical skills, requires both thick skin and extreme self-confidence. Harrison has the physical skills, but has not shown the thick skin nor self-confidence. In the last seven minutes of the game, he started to show signs of just playing basketball, and not worrying about the constant yelling from Cal.
Ultimately, that is what Cal wants out of all his guys - he knows they have talent, but he demands effort on the defensive end, and smart decisions on the offensive end. The Cats had been off for nearly a week, and had some grueling, back-to-basics type practices. In the first half, the Cats looked completely lost - and CSU was the better team. It was as if Cal had put too much in their minds, and they were thinking too much instead of just playing basketball. Worse, they did not have the defensive intensity that I was expecting to see after such emphasis was placed this past week. I thought they still struggled with communicating on defense, but it was better. Even on the offensive end, they looked lost a lot - too much standing around, shooting when they should pass, and passing when they should shoot (Right now it looks like many of them don't understand the difference - including Randle) - again, looks like they are thinking to much, and not simply playing/reacting.
Fortunately, they never gave up, or panicked (save for a couple of rushed shots in the second half), and mid-way through the 2nd half the defensive intensity picked up, and the offense looked better - better ball movement, and better shot selections. I think they have a big test against Eastern Michigan tomorrow - not that they should not win easily, but more in how they play. Do they come out with the effort and intensity they need, or do they try to rely on skill alone?
Another thing I think we'll see going forward is Cal going back to a shorter bench - playing 7 deep, instead of 9. When UK made their run, it was primarily with Harrison, Harrison, Young, Randle, and Cauley-Stein - I think Cal has the most trust in these guys, and will play them heavily, save for foul trouble. Poythress and Johnson will still get decent minutes, but I think Lee and Hawkins will get fewer minutes. Lee and Hawkins are both high-energy guys, but I don't think Cal trusts them for long stretches.
For all their talent, right now, this year's team is closer to last year's team, than the 11/12 team. They are missing a leader who demands effort on every play on the court. If someone steps up - Randle, one of the Harrisons, or Young - to be that driving force on the court, i think the sky's the limit with this team, but if they just meander through the season relying on Cal and the coaches to get them to play harder, I think they will fall short of their team goals - and personal goals.
At the end of the game, it looked like a dim light finally came on for Andrew Harrison - he still has a ways to go, but maybe he has reached bottom. In the first half, and even into the second half, it was the same old Harrison - too much bad body language, hanging his head after a bad play, complaining to refs about fouls, etc. On one hand its good to see that he cares, but on the other, he needs to understand that he can't run a team if he is constantly worried about a missed shot, or a bad pass. That is his biggest impediment to succeeding on this, or the next, level - way too emotionally immature. Playing point guard for Cal, aside from physical skills, requires both thick skin and extreme self-confidence. Harrison has the physical skills, but has not shown the thick skin nor self-confidence. In the last seven minutes of the game, he started to show signs of just playing basketball, and not worrying about the constant yelling from Cal.
Ultimately, that is what Cal wants out of all his guys - he knows they have talent, but he demands effort on the defensive end, and smart decisions on the offensive end. The Cats had been off for nearly a week, and had some grueling, back-to-basics type practices. In the first half, the Cats looked completely lost - and CSU was the better team. It was as if Cal had put too much in their minds, and they were thinking too much instead of just playing basketball. Worse, they did not have the defensive intensity that I was expecting to see after such emphasis was placed this past week. I thought they still struggled with communicating on defense, but it was better. Even on the offensive end, they looked lost a lot - too much standing around, shooting when they should pass, and passing when they should shoot (Right now it looks like many of them don't understand the difference - including Randle) - again, looks like they are thinking to much, and not simply playing/reacting.
Fortunately, they never gave up, or panicked (save for a couple of rushed shots in the second half), and mid-way through the 2nd half the defensive intensity picked up, and the offense looked better - better ball movement, and better shot selections. I think they have a big test against Eastern Michigan tomorrow - not that they should not win easily, but more in how they play. Do they come out with the effort and intensity they need, or do they try to rely on skill alone?
Another thing I think we'll see going forward is Cal going back to a shorter bench - playing 7 deep, instead of 9. When UK made their run, it was primarily with Harrison, Harrison, Young, Randle, and Cauley-Stein - I think Cal has the most trust in these guys, and will play them heavily, save for foul trouble. Poythress and Johnson will still get decent minutes, but I think Lee and Hawkins will get fewer minutes. Lee and Hawkins are both high-energy guys, but I don't think Cal trusts them for long stretches.
For all their talent, right now, this year's team is closer to last year's team, than the 11/12 team. They are missing a leader who demands effort on every play on the court. If someone steps up - Randle, one of the Harrisons, or Young - to be that driving force on the court, i think the sky's the limit with this team, but if they just meander through the season relying on Cal and the coaches to get them to play harder, I think they will fall short of their team goals - and personal goals.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
not a good performance tonight. zero intensity.
sporthenry
Footballguy
No idea how that isn't a foul against Smith then refs call Harrell for one. Some home cooking at Rupp.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Wow if that counts
Corporation
Angry Bovine
Wow
Frostillicus
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Calipari asking for technical foul for celebrating with time on the clock. 
sporthenry
Footballguy
Well, Arkansas saves itself after allowing 2 3's to tie games. You think they'd have done better in OT.
Ray Karpis
Footballguy
WPS!
Suck it, Cal. You d-bag...asking for a technical right there. Incredulous bastage.
No words for that dunk.
Suck it, Cal. You d-bag...asking for a technical right there. Incredulous bastage.
No words for that dunk.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Losing at Arkansas is no huge upset. Since Cal's been there this is one of his most talented teams, it's all about if they put it together as a team. I don't think they will, but it won't surprise me if they do. Lotta time left.
WampusCat43
Footballguy
UK played their asses off - that's all I ask. The referees (60 fouls!) weren't going to let either team build any momentum.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
what a dunk to end the game.
Their size against smaller guards in high school was an advantage that overcame their lack of quickness and defensive intensity. Almost all the draft experts are putting them in the 2015 draft now, but I bet Cal gently pushes them out the door.
Ray Karpis
Footballguy
Timmay
Footballguy
Any good coach in that situation would ask for a tech. What else can they do.
The refs played a huge part in that game last night, they were terrible for both teams. It wasn't even a fun game to watch, until the last couple possessions.
Losing @ Arkansas is not as bad as what many people think. One of the toughest places to play in all of college bball. UK played hard. The game came down to one missed block out and missed free throws. Sadly since the refs had so many foul calls, the free throws really hurt.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Getting waxed at LSU. This team is lazy and the Harrison twins are awful.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, the Harrisons are not very good. The massive physical advantages they had in HS (and the fact that there was 2 of them) really helped to hide their relative lack of skill and poor decision making (in terms of the expectations most people had).
They're still huge and physically tough (although mentally weak with horrible body language) and 5 years from now, we may look back on this season and laugh when they're playing in All Star games, but right now they kinda stink. I said they were selfish during the pre-season and I think its proven true.
Lets say they enter the draft anyway and fall out of the lottery.....This will be the 3rd year in a row that Cal will have taken a top 10 guard recruit and seen his draft stock absolutely go in the tank. (Teague, goodwin,Harrisons) Obviously Teague won a title and the book isn't closed on the Harrisons, but this could be a legitimate concern at some point. Lucky for Cal he's already got Ullis in the boat for next year and he'll be a 4 year guy due to his lack of size.
They're still huge and physically tough (although mentally weak with horrible body language) and 5 years from now, we may look back on this season and laugh when they're playing in All Star games, but right now they kinda stink. I said they were selfish during the pre-season and I think its proven true.
Lets say they enter the draft anyway and fall out of the lottery.....This will be the 3rd year in a row that Cal will have taken a top 10 guard recruit and seen his draft stock absolutely go in the tank. (Teague, goodwin,Harrisons) Obviously Teague won a title and the book isn't closed on the Harrisons, but this could be a legitimate concern at some point. Lucky for Cal he's already got Ullis in the boat for next year and he'll be a 4 year guy due to his lack of size.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
ugh
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
Goodwin and Teague were 1st round draft picks and I don't think anybody expected more than that for either of them. Both probably should have stayed in school as should the Harrisons. In any case, I don't think recruiting is going to be a problem for Cal any time in the near future.
I think the problem with the Harrisons is more mental toughness than selfishness. When things are going well they are great, but they don't handle adversity at all. Probably the first times in their lives they've faced much adversity on the basketball court.
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Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
Both were projected much higher when they arrived in school. I doubt I'll be able to find any pre-season mock drafts, but I'm pretty sure I recall Teague as a pre-season top 5 pick. Both were certainly listed in the lottery.
They absolutely should have stayed in school, but you really can't expect them too when a big part of Cal's sales pitch is "I'll get you to the league ASAP". And lets face it, he certainly had every incentive to push goodwin out the door with Young and the Harrisons coming in.
Recruiting certainly won't be a problem, as UK still has plenty to sell.
Mental toughness is certainly an issue. Their body language stinks.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
Teague was no where near that highly thought of. If there's a mock out there that had him going that high, it was a UK homer or somebody just basing it off of Cal's past guards. Heck, he would have been only the 5th rated prospect on that team heading into the season (behind Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrance Jones, and Doron Lamb).
In any case, the current Cats are hit and miss for sure. They have played pretty terrible on the road, but that is similar to the 2011 team that went to the final four. It is painful to watch when they come out with no energy like they did tonight or against Baylor. They don't have a leader on the court and that hurts. Randle tries, but it's hard from his position. He can go long stretches without the ball in his hand. Cauley-Stein has quit playing for some reason and Johnson is not really read for primetime at the center position.
I would like to see them go with a smaller lineup with Randle and Poythress in the game at the same time without Cauley-Stein or Johnson, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
I said this during one of the scrimmages before the season started. No idea how you go about fixing that...
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
Twins have played themselves out of the first round. Wildly inconsistent. This team has serious chemistry issues. Loaded with talent, just can't seem to play to their potential.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Not to belabor the point (its from 3 years ago, so who really cares) but Teague was rated # 5 overall by rivals, #8 by scout and #8 by ESPN. All 3 services had him as the # 1 PG in the country.
Both NBAdraft.Net and Draft Express.com had him as the #1 PG and a top 10 pick before the 2011-12 season started.
He played fine (very well for a freshman) and won a title, but as an individual, his draft status and subsequent NBA career has been a disappointment. Not necessarily a knock on Calipari (again, he won a title and he's made more money than most of us will ever sniff on his rookie deal) but those are the facts. He wasn't drafted as high as anyone expected and he could be out of the league in a year.
Not saying any other coach would have done any better with him (although a coach with a different sales pitch MIGHT have been able to keep him in college for another year) because its impossible to know that. EVERY elite coach has had at least 1 (if not several) top 5-10 players had far more disappointing college careers than Teague did (again, if you can call a title and lower draft status a disappointment)
Both NBAdraft.Net and Draft Express.com had him as the #1 PG and a top 10 pick before the 2011-12 season started.
He played fine (very well for a freshman) and won a title, but as an individual, his draft status and subsequent NBA career has been a disappointment. Not necessarily a knock on Calipari (again, he won a title and he's made more money than most of us will ever sniff on his rookie deal) but those are the facts. He wasn't drafted as high as anyone expected and he could be out of the league in a year.
Not saying any other coach would have done any better with him (although a coach with a different sales pitch MIGHT have been able to keep him in college for another year) because its impossible to know that. EVERY elite coach has had at least 1 (if not several) top 5-10 players had far more disappointing college careers than Teague did (again, if you can call a title and lower draft status a disappointment)
Patrick Bateman
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
DX had Teague at 1.23 in their summer 2011 update, and at 1.18-1.19 throughout the 2012 season. The recruiting services liked Teague, but USA Basketball preferred Quinn Cook. It might have been mentioning on this board once or twice that Cook started over Teague for the junior national team at Worlds.
I'm having trouble accepting the narrative that winning a national title with a team that had the 1.01 and 1.02 picks on it and being a late first-round draft pick when the player was projected as a late first-round pick is a huge disappointment. Not sure how it ties to the Harrisons, whom a lot of folks felt would be trouble despite their talent. Teague only looks bad because he played for a coach to has had two PGs go 1.01 in the last six years, plus two others go in the top ten.
