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*** 2013 Oakland Raiders thread *** (1 Viewer)
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'd be stunned if they don't take a QB at #5. There are a few excellent prospects and Clowney will be gone.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I really like Rod Streater. He was 112 yards away from becoming the first Raiders WR to have a 1,000 yard season since 2005. He did all this with a undrafted rookie QB at the helm for part of the season and another QB in Pryor who doesn't always look to throw first the other half the season. Moore is too inconsistent and I'm not sure about Holmes he has shown some flashes of good play. I still think the Raiders need a go to elite #1 WR.
I think the Raiders will look at QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds in the draft.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Here's WalterFootball's QB rankings
Clowney is certainly going in the top 4, and the Rams probably won't be taking a QB.
That leaves one of Bridgewater, Bortles or Johnny Football. Any of whom I'd be ecstatic with.
Clowney is certainly going in the top 4, and the Rams probably won't be taking a QB.
That leaves one of Bridgewater, Bortles or Johnny Football. Any of whom I'd be ecstatic with.
joey
Footballguy
A couple of studly rookie WRs coming out from what I've read. I think they could go there in the first round and go QB in the 2nd.
I like Streater and Holmes and Moore, but they're all #2s or #3s on other teams with real WR talent.
I wouldn't mind if both Pryor and McGloin weren't on the roster at all next year.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I gotta tell ya... I am really (REALLY!) intrigued by Manziel.
I'm tired of going through every damn season in a coma. The one thing he won't be is boring!
I'm tired of going through every damn season in a coma. The one thing he won't be is boring!
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
This team needs so much help that I anticipate the Raiders trading down. I do like Brotles, and Manzel is intriguing. But the defense needs extreme help, maybe that will come via free agency.
ICON211
Footballguy
Makes sense and would explain why playing Denver in the last week moved the Raiders down from where they would have been the week before. So the Broncos got to kick our ### and screw us by moving us down in the draft at the same time.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Dennis Allen saying he's heard from "sources" that his job is secure. Says his goal is compete for the playoffs, not talking about being a SB team. Is that the new mantra, just compete baby? Be happy to eek into the show and lose the first playoff game? Is that the goal? If that's how DA thinks, I hope those "sources" are untrue, or that Mark Davis sees his comments and decides he's had enough of this striving for mediocrity. I think the fanbase has put up with enough garbage seasons to hope to return to the glory days of those back to back 8-8 seasons a couple years back. I think the firing of DA would mark the new nadir, and no place to go but up. At least give me a coach with a little tougher mettle than a guy just hoping to compete and save his job for one more year. #### that!
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Even the 2-14 Chiefs who went to 11-5 the very next year never talked about building toward playoff contention. From day one, every huddle break has been capped with "championship!". I expect no less of any reputable HC in the league. No inferred drama. Either you can talk the talk and back it up with the walk or you cant. I don't think Allen is a bad coach, just not the right coach to lead us to a future string of SB titles. Isn't that what we are all hoping for?
ICON211
Footballguy
Not a fan of his overall attitude. Did not like his comments after the loss to Dallas. It was basically what are we supposed to do we are out of gas. That was week 13. Do you really want that attitude to permeate your team with 4 more games left?
Also did not like these comments yesterday. “That’s a decision that’s made over my head. I fully expect to be back. I fully believe that I deserve the opportunity to come back here and get a chance to, as we said, go through the deconstruction phase. I want to be part of the rebuilding phase.”
We all know thats what this is, but the head coach should not be talking like that. What attitude do you expect the players to have if the head coach basically expects to lose?
squistion
Footballguy
I think you are reading too much into his statement. If he stays, he will only have one more season to prove himself. If he talks about a Super Bowl in 2014, not only would those expectations be considered ludicrous, he would setting the bar so high that anything short of that would be deemed a failure (see Rex Ryan). A realistic goal would be to make the playoffs next season and that improvement would probably be enough in itself to buy him another year. First things first.
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Ed Wood
Footballguy
Kawakami: Oakland Raiders' Dennis Allen and Reggie McKenzie deserve more time
http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_24813783/kawakami-coach-dennis-allen-doesnt-speak-like-man
Ok, I guess Allen had garbage to work with so for two years so he deserves a chance with "real" players.
From the story:
"Now the Raiders have the fifth overall pick in the 2014 draft, tens of millions of cap room, and a coach with something to prove -- if he still has his job."
Regarding the fifth pick and the cap room, I'm thinking Reggie's not the guy to be handling this motherlode...at least not based on his track record so far. He's probably going to mess it up and Allen still won't have "real" players.
http://www.mercurynews.com/tim-kawakami/ci_24813783/kawakami-coach-dennis-allen-doesnt-speak-like-man
Ok, I guess Allen had garbage to work with so for two years so he deserves a chance with "real" players.
From the story:
"Now the Raiders have the fifth overall pick in the 2014 draft, tens of millions of cap room, and a coach with something to prove -- if he still has his job."
Regarding the fifth pick and the cap room, I'm thinking Reggie's not the guy to be handling this motherlode...at least not based on his track record so far. He's probably going to mess it up and Allen still won't have "real" players.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
If Kawakami gives his endorsement of DA, I guess it's all a misunderstanding then? My bad. (Kawakami and Mike Silver can go blow each other) I guess we can blame the 16 players drafted under Reggie's watch as not included in the list of "real" players lacking then?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Wow! Somebody is on the war path! RF you may ultimately prove correct about DA. But sticking with DA will pay dividends down the road. It will shed Davis in a much better light and showcase his commitment to a hire. So if DA fails the job will be more desireable (I hope).
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
the raiders are a ####### joke. i fully expect to #### up the draft and win no more than 5 games next year. i am defeated. first time in 15 years or so i didn't go to a game.
without bringing in someone exciting and energetic i don't see anything changing. we don't need another "who?" coach. we need someone that can garner some respect from the spoiled millionaires that play this game.
eta: i didn't watch one minute of the denver game
without bringing in someone exciting and energetic i don't see anything changing. we don't need another "who?" coach. we need someone that can garner some respect from the spoiled millionaires that play this game.
eta: i didn't watch one minute of the denver game
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drummer
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Ultimately, I'll be DA's biggest supporter if/when they bring him back. I have no personal vendetta. At some point to get where we want to be as a relevant force in the NFL, a coaching change will need to happen.
I do hear your argument though. We don't want to be the Cleveland Browns of the world, hiring and firing coaches yearly, and paying them 8 figures for the privilege of canning them. One year can be chalked up to growing pains or as an anomaly. Two years can be considered a trend in the short shelve life of the NFL.
I hear the arguments that the team was hamstrung, playing with a light deck, ton of talent on previous rosters out of work and still on Al Davis' take. The depleted roster, TV blackouts, crap infested stadium, shortage of prime draft picks. What were we to expect but disaster?
From all the mess that Reggie/DA inherited, what signature coaching or personnel moves do you remember from the last 2 years that has produced 8 wins collectively that made you feel these were the right guys to turn around this team? I'll give you the need for stability is important, if only to protect Mark Davis name and reputation enough to distance himself from his father. That's a big reason, I'll admit. Is there any work related reasons to support their continued tenure? Is there a youtube cutup somewhere that chronicles the shining moments of Reggie/DA? TIA.
It's hard to be a Raider fan. As you know well, it's never a choice. You just are.
lod01
Footballguy
None of the QBs in the draft are even close to a sure thing. B-water will be gone. With so many holes on D, wasting a top 5 pick on a QB reaks of stupidity. If you compare McGloin's stats to Drew Brees' after 8 career games, they are virtually identical with Brees holding a better completion % with Tomlinson as his RB.
If they let a guy like Clowney or Anthony Barr go by them, then they deserve to continue their suckfest.
If they let a guy like Clowney or Anthony Barr go by them, then they deserve to continue their suckfest.
ICON211
Footballguy
The bolded is just silly to even think about or consider. As far as the QBs in the draft go I am not a fan of taking a QB high just because you need one. But none of these guys are sure things, even Clowney. Gallery was supposed to be the closest thing there was to a sure thing, dominant tackle and we know how that turned out. With so many holes on this team they need to take the highest rated player on their board.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
That last part is sigworthy! RF I cannot point to any single shinning moment in Reggie's tenure. But like I said numerous times before the jury is still out on his first draft. We can turn your question on its's head and ask can you point to any moments that have been dismissal failures during his tenure? Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, 2014 will be the defining year for Reggie.
lod01
Footballguy
They have a solid crew of WRs. No Gordon/Julio/etc but solid top 3 and Butler is no slouch. Got benched for some ugly drops early and Holmes took the gig from him. Not a need. Defense is needed.
joey
Footballguy
Potential scenario...
Cutler (FA QB if Bears decide to let him try out the market. Can't believe I typed his name, but isn't a vet QB this fastest path to playoff relevance?)
Watkins at the 5 pick.
All the rest of our picks and big cap money to the Defense.
Just thinking out loud....
Cutler (FA QB if Bears decide to let him try out the market. Can't believe I typed his name, but isn't a vet QB this fastest path to playoff relevance?)
Watkins at the 5 pick.
All the rest of our picks and big cap money to the Defense.
Just thinking out loud....
massraider
Footballguy
The mocks that all seem to have a WR at our pick are just draftniks trying to shoehorn a WR intro the top 10.
joey
Footballguy
It's a passing game and we don't have a stud WR and one is available at the 5 pick.
II think Rivera looked really good at TE and Ausberry comes back next year.
The o-line should be very good once fully healthy with our depth that got real-game experience.
So I think our offense is a REAL starting vet QB and a true #1 WR away from putting us in the run for the playoffs.
Of course, all the rest of our effort should go into our D.
What other vet QBs are worth discussing in the off-season.
II think Rivera looked really good at TE and Ausberry comes back next year.
The o-line should be very good once fully healthy with our depth that got real-game experience.
So I think our offense is a REAL starting vet QB and a true #1 WR away from putting us in the run for the playoffs.
Of course, all the rest of our effort should go into our D.
What other vet QBs are worth discussing in the off-season.
lod01
Footballguy
It has to do with the statement by HC Allen that they don't think they have a quality starting QB on the roster. No one knows if McGloin will be something or not based on 8 games, Drew Brees should have been under consideration to be cut according to Allen's thinking. It's far from silly.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
This draft is extremely deep at the WR position. The Raiders have more glaring needs on defense, QB and Oline.joey said:
My wish list:
1. Resign Veldheer and Houston. Veldheer has expressed an interest in being a Raider for life and DA has clearly stated that Houston is part of the Raider's future. They may have to use to RFA tag to get these signings done.
2. One FA defensive impact player signing. Orapko anyone?
3. Acquire a QB either through the draft or via free agency that improves the competition at the position.
4. Sign Richie Incognito. I know this may be controversial but he is an instant upgrade and gives us some much needed toughness inside. Would likely come at a bargin rate.
5. Resign Burnett, Simms, Porter and Jenkins.
6. Acquire a DT that can get a push and improve depth at DLine position.
7. Big body WR.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Also, I would be shocked if the signed a big name FA at the QB position. It just isn't the model for long term success. See 9ers, Seahawks, And Colts as examples. Granted Payton is exception, but there are no Payton's available as FAs this year.
joey
Footballguy
Alex Smith?
(Seeing KC turn it around so fast with Alex Freakin Smith turns my stomach)
Andy Reid's instant turn around of the Churfs (iPhone typo but I like it) and Harbaugh turning around the 9ers so quickly show what getting a very good coach can do. And here we sit with DA (not that I want another change at coach after only 2 years)
(Seeing KC turn it around so fast with Alex Freakin Smith turns my stomach)
Andy Reid's instant turn around of the Churfs (iPhone typo but I like it) and Harbaugh turning around the 9ers so quickly show what getting a very good coach can do. And here we sit with DA (not that I want another change at coach after only 2 years)
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RaiderBones
Footballguy
The Chiefs and 49ers already had lots of nice talent on the team when Reid and Harbaugh took over. Not good comparisons in my opinion.Alex Smith?
(Seeing KC turn it around so fast with Alex Freakin Smith turns my stomach)
Andy Reid's instant turn around of the Churfs (iPhone typo but I like it) and Harbaugh turning around the 9ers so quickly show what getting a very good coach can do. And here we sit with DA (not that I want another change at coach after only 2 years)
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joey
Footballguy
And one coach plus a non-stud QB turned the chiefs around.
I guess it's just my annual post-season optimism that hopes a solid QB, a game changing WR and an unprecedented amount of cap space can raise the talent level significantly enough to have us in the playoff conversation next year.
I guess it's just my annual post-season optimism that hopes a solid QB, a game changing WR and an unprecedented amount of cap space can raise the talent level significantly enough to have us in the playoff conversation next year.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Bortles is about to face Baylor on ESPN.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I really like what I see, both in the bowl game and on tape. Still I think they should wait on QB and snag Barr in rd1.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
solid!!
massraider
Footballguy
Give me a game-changing QB, and a solid WR instead.
You'll see how far Smith gets the Chiefs. The Chiefs are where they are because of a pleasant schedule, and a good head coach.
It's been a constant mantra in the NFL, but I believe it: It all starts with the QB.
But none of these guys are sure things? Ummm, yeah. No sheet, Sherlock. Are we gonna wait till the next Andrew Luck comes out, and is available at our pick?
If the Raiders don't believe in any of the draftees, OK. Take Clowney (Can't imagine he'd be there) or Barr, and let Pryor and McGloin continue their audition. It's not ideal, but hey, if they suck, we are in line for Winston and Mariota next year.
But we have to get the QB situation sorted. One way or another. All the trading down in the world, and grabbing multiple pick masturbation that people wish for every year....that won't mean anything if the QB isn't sorted.
massraider
Footballguy
I wish someone would convince me on Manziel. One way or the other.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I think it is a mistake to have the mindset that we must use a 1st round draft choice on a QB. There will be QB prospects available in the second and third rounds that hold a lot of potential. Fales, Murray, Brett Smith and Mettenberg are prospects that offer upside. Certainly if Reggie/the front office believe that Manzel or Bortles can be elite then they should draft them, otherwise go best defensive player. The key is to improve the competition at the QB position. It will bring out the best McGloin, Pryor and Player X.
As for the Chiefs, I think we are forgetting this team was loaded with talent despite their record last year. IIRC they had 5 players make the All Pro team last year despite a 2-14 record. Personally, I think the Cassell could have led the Chiefs to a 10 win season once Reid was hired.
As for the Chiefs, I think we are forgetting this team was loaded with talent despite their record last year. IIRC they had 5 players make the All Pro team last year despite a 2-14 record. Personally, I think the Cassell could have led the Chiefs to a 10 win season once Reid was hired.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I agree 100%. The Raiders are only going to go so far until the find that franchise QB, whomever that may be.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
So the question then becomes do you consider R. Wilson, N. Fowles, or C. Kaepernick franchise QBs? I don't consider all franchise QB but all a significant upgrade that would make us more competitive. I could also mention Bress, Brady, Romo as examples of QBs that should be considered franchise QBs that were selected after the 1st round.
We can find a QB after the first round that will improve the position. He may not be a franchise QB but if he is an improvement and we get stronger at other positions our situation would be similar to the Chiefs...
Also, more colleges are throwing first and developing QBs so the position is deeper than ever before.
We can find a QB after the first round that will improve the position. He may not be a franchise QB but if he is an improvement and we get stronger at other positions our situation would be similar to the Chiefs...
Also, more colleges are throwing first and developing QBs so the position is deeper than ever before.
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massraider
Footballguy
There's four games this week, and four 1st round picks playing, Three #1 overall picks, including game manager "good enough to get by" guy Alex Smith. They go quick.
.
Quarterbacks and defensive ends are similar: You can get good ones after the 1st round, but I'd hate to count on it.
We have a ton of needs, which is why getting our QB sorted out is important. Because a good one raises the talent level of all his teammates. Look at Cam Newton and Andre Luck's impact on their team, which was terrible enough to have the #1 pick.
I don't want to be in the position of taking Roethlisberger, and we take Gallery. Or even Larry Fitzgerald!! Fitz over Roeth was a mistake as well.
Of course, I don't wanna take JaMarcus over Calvin again either, but Calvin without Staff is just Fitz without a QB.
If Bridgewater is the only QB gone when we pick, and we go with a non-QB, fine. As long as Manziel or Carr doesn't turn into Roethlisberger, or Wilson. If they do, I don't care of Barr turns into Von Miller. It's a mistake unless they get lucky with QB elsewhere.
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32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Look, I don't disagree -- we need a franchise QB. My point is franchise QBs can come from anywhere. I mean there are 4 non first round QBs playing this week as well. We both want the same result though...
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
and in other news of the water is wet kind, can we move past the we need a franchise qb talk already?
