*2014-15 Hot Stove Thread: The Padres won it I guess (3 Viewers)

[shadyridr]

Yeah can someone explain how being sent down 2 weeks gives him an extra year of eligibility

 

[Capella]

An extra year of control of Bryant in his prime is worth a lot more wins then what they would lose in the first two weeks of this season. It's a no-brainer for the Cubs.

Whether the wins come now or in six years what does it matter when you own the team? With this young team I'd want the extra wins six years from now.

when did it become 2 weeks? I'm behind on the Bryant watch, but wasn't super 2 always more like 2 months than 2 weeks?

Yea I don't think that's correct

 

[dparker713]

Yeah can someone explain how being sent down 2 weeks gives him an extra year of eligibility

The CBA defines the first full year of service time at something like 173 out of 182 days. Players are under team control for a minimum of 6.00 years. So, if Bryant is only a major leaguer for something like 170 out of the 182 days, the Cubs gain a full extra year of arbitration service time.

Now, there are also provisions about guys getting jerked around between the minors and the majors. So, anyone sent down to start the season while on the 40 man roster would get credited for time in the majors if the stint in the minors is shorter than 2 weeks. Bryant is not on the 40 man so this does not apply to him.

However, no one thinks the Cubs will call him up right as he would lose a year - it would look bad. So they'll give it a few days or a couple of weeks. Say he needed to work on his defense and then call him up no later than the start of May.

 

[dparker713]

An extra year of control of Bryant in his prime is worth a lot more wins then what they would lose in the first two weeks of this season. It's a no-brainer for the Cubs.

Whether the wins come now or in six years what does it matter when you own the team? With this young team I'd want the extra wins six years from now.

when did it become 2 weeks? I'm behind on the Bryant watch, but wasn't super 2 always more like 2 months than 2 weeks?

Most big market teams don't care too much about Super 2, but they do care about an extra year of team control.

 

[Northern Voice]

To be more specific, in terms of how starts will shake out, it's expected to go Hutchison-Dickey-Norris-Buerhle-Sanchez. They're doing this so Buerhle doesn't face New York and Hutch does face Baltimore, based on their past results vs. those teams.

Any idea if they'll treat Norris like a No. 5 starter in terms of skipping his spot, etc?

He barely pitched over 130 innings last year. I wouldn't expect him to throw more than 150-60 innings this season.

No innings cap for Norris or Sanchez

https://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/581813163026472960

 

[Doctor Detroit]

An extra year of control of Bryant in his prime is worth a lot more wins then what they would lose in the first two weeks of this season. It's a no-brainer for the Cubs.

Whether the wins come now or in six years what does it matter when you own the team? With this young team I'd want the extra wins six years from now.

when did it become 2 weeks? I'm behind on the Bryant watch, but wasn't super 2 always more like 2 months than 2 weeks?

Yea I don't think that's correct

Super two only involves moving up the arbitration clock, it has nothing to do with service time for free agency. Two different clocks.

If Bryant breaks camp with the Cubs, he can become a free agent after the 2020 season. The Cubs, however, can push that back to 2021 because of service time if Bryant stays in the minors until at least mid-April this season.

 

[Smack Tripper]

To be more specific, in terms of how starts will shake out, it's expected to go Hutchison-Dickey-Norris-Buerhle-Sanchez. They're doing this so Buerhle doesn't face New York and Hutch does face Baltimore, based on their past results vs. those teams.

Any idea if they'll treat Norris like a No. 5 starter in terms of skipping his spot, etc?

He barely pitched over 130 innings last year. I wouldn't expect him to throw more than 150-60 innings this season.

No innings cap for Norris or Sanchezhttps://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/581813163026472960

What do you see for Norris?

 

[cheese]

An extra year of control of Bryant in his prime is worth a lot more wins then what they would lose in the first two weeks of this season. It's a no-brainer for the Cubs.

Whether the wins come now or in six years what does it matter when you own the team? With this young team I'd want the extra wins six years from now.

when did it become 2 weeks? I'm behind on the Bryant watch, but wasn't super 2 always more like 2 months than 2 weeks?

Yea I don't think that's correct

Super two only involves moving up the arbitration clock, it has nothing to do with service time for free agency. Two different clocks.

If Bryant breaks camp with the Cubs, he can become a free agent after the 2020 season. The Cubs, however, can push that back to 2021 because of service time if Bryant stays in the minors until at least mid-April this season.

So they are considering paying him 4 years of arbitration?If he's up too early for super 2 but down long enough to not be FA, is that the result?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

An extra year of control of Bryant in his prime is worth a lot more wins then what they would lose in the first two weeks of this season. It's a no-brainer for the Cubs.

Whether the wins come now or in six years what does it matter when you own the team? With this young team I'd want the extra wins six years from now.

when did it become 2 weeks? I'm behind on the Bryant watch, but wasn't super 2 always more like 2 months than 2 weeks?

Yea I don't think that's correct

Super two only involves moving up the arbitration clock, it has nothing to do with service time for free agency. Two different clocks.

If Bryant breaks camp with the Cubs, he can become a free agent after the 2020 season. The Cubs, however, can push that back to 2021 because of service time if Bryant stays in the minors until at least mid-April this season.

So they are considering paying him 4 years of arbitration?If he's up too early for super 2 but down long enough to not be FA, is that the result?

Correct.

 

[cheese]

Thanks. Surprising though. If you're going to screw the guy might as well go all the way and wait for June to save 10m in arbitration money.

 

[Northern Voice]

To be more specific, in terms of how starts will shake out, it's expected to go Hutchison-Dickey-Norris-Buerhle-Sanchez. They're doing this so Buerhle doesn't face New York and Hutch does face Baltimore, based on their past results vs. those teams.

Any idea if they'll treat Norris like a No. 5 starter in terms of skipping his spot, etc?

He barely pitched over 130 innings last year. I wouldn't expect him to throw more than 150-60 innings this season.

No innings cap for Norris or Sanchezhttps://twitter.com/ShiDavidi/status/581813163026472960

What do you see for Norris?

I think there will be an adjustment period since its such a big jump. Could easily see 180 IP and ERA around 4 for the season, close to 9 k/9. Similar year to Hutchison last year?

Love him long term. Hope for better this year, but Jays being Jays, 45 innings and a torn UCL can never be ruled out... I do think his spot in rotation is more secure than Sanchez.

 

[shadyridr]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

I would tend to agree, but the MLBPA did sign off on that in the CBA.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?

It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

 

[shadyridr]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

because they have to sell that to the fanbase, it leaves a bad taste in bryants mouth, and im sure the rest of his teammates want the player that gives them the best chance to win now.

 

[Wrigley]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

because they have to sell that to the fanbase, it leaves a bad taste in bryants mouth, and im sure the rest of his teammates want the player that gives them the best chance to win now.

I'm buying it

 

[shadyridr]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

 

[Capella]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

Rays did this to Longoria and then he signed like a 20-year contract later on down the road. It's not a big deal.

 

[RnR]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

His agent is Scott Boras. Bryant knows what he signed up for the minute he chose him.

 

[shadyridr]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

His agent is Scott Boras. Bryant knows what he signed up for the minute he chose him.

are you saying if he had another agent they may not have done this because another agent would be willing to allow his client sign an extension early in their career? Thats a fair point.

 

[Frostillicus]

It's not disrespect or a slap in the face. It happens all the time.

 

[MAC_32]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

I would tend to agree, but the MLBPA did sign off on that in the CBA.

Yep, not gonna raise an eyebrow at the cubs for making the best business decision.Want it to change? Then make issue of it when this cba is up.

 

[jamny]

Jaime Garcia was scratched from his scheduled start Sunday after experiencing a setback with his surgically repaired left shoulder.

shocker!

 

[Wrigley]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

I would tend to agree, but the MLBPA did sign off on that in the CBA.

Yep, not gonna raise an eyebrow at the cubs for making the best business decision.Want it to change? Then make issue of it when this cba is up.

Theo would call it a baseball decision

 

[RnR]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

His agent is Scott Boras. Bryant knows what he signed up for the minute he chose him.

are you saying if he had another agent they may not have done this because another agent would be willing to allow his client sign an extension early in their career? Thats a fair point.

It is exactly what I'm saying. Cubs would sign a Longoria-style extension and have him in opening day lineup with an agent that was willing to negotiate the terms.

 

[Daywalker]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

I would tend to agree, but the MLBPA did sign off on that in the CBA.

Yep, not gonna raise an eyebrow at the cubs for making the best business decision.Want it to change? Then make issue of it when this cba is up.

Theo would call it a baseball decision

I can see that though. An extra year of control of a prime Bryant is worth more wins then his first two weeks in the bigs.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

when any player not named Phil Hughes does anything other than to maximize his money, then I guess I would care.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

because they have to sell that to the fanbase, it leaves a bad taste in bryants mouth, and im sure the rest of his teammates want the player that gives them the best chance to win now.

I'm having trouble believing you are "gifted."

This is not that hard to understand.

 

[shadyridr]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

because they have to sell that to the fanbase, it leaves a bad taste in bryants mouth, and im sure the rest of his teammates want the player that gives them the best chance to win now.

I'm having trouble believing you are "gifted." This is not that hard to understand.

compared to normal people i am but clearly nowhere near the intelligence of you or anyone else here except maybe em

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

Why would any organization not do this for an extra year of player control?It's a business, "class" has nothing to do with anything.

because they have to sell that to the fanbase, it leaves a bad taste in bryants mouth, and im sure the rest of his teammates want the player that gives them the best chance to win now.

I'm having trouble believing you are "gifted." This is not that hard to understand.

compared to normal people i am but clearly nowhere near the intelligence of you or anyone else here except maybe em

Well duh.

 

[dparker713]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

His agent is Scott Boras. Bryant knows what he signed up for the minute he chose him.

are you saying if he had another agent they may not have done this because another agent would be willing to allow his client sign an extension early in their career? Thats a fair point.

It is exactly what I'm saying. Cubs would sign a Longoria-style extension and have him in opening day lineup with an agent that was willing to negotiate the terms.

As Bryant has already said, Boras works for him, not the other way around. Considering his draft bonus and his ability, there doesn't seem to be much reason for him to settle for a deal. Even if he gets injured, he'll make millions more on his potential alone. And really, the Longoria contract is an agent's blueprint on how to screw your client.

 

[dparker713]

I know its the smart move but its pretty low class move to keep the guy down 2 weeks if he earned the spot.

I would tend to agree, but the MLBPA did sign off on that in the CBA.

Yep, not gonna raise an eyebrow at the cubs for making the best business decision.Want it to change? Then make issue of it when this cba is up.

Theo would call it a baseball decision

What's the average price a Cubs fan would pay just for a playoff berth, let alone a World Series? First born?

Can't imagine what they'd pay for sustained success.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

JK Simmons is going to throw out the first pitch for the Tigers on Opening Day.

No word on whether Beecher will be catching.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2015/03/27/detroit-tigers-jk-simmons/70541372/

 

[pollardsvision]

Fangraphs finishing up their Positional Power Rankings series. Braves are in the bottom 3 in 6 of the 8 positions.

Saddest part is that two of those six include the biggest free-agent deal in team history and a guy they just gave 4 years/ 45 mill to. Oof.

 

[RnR]

And you think bryant cares if its a smart business move? From his perspective he played his ### off all spring and hes gonna get sent down anyway PLUS he will now be a free agent a year later.

His agent is Scott Boras. Bryant knows what he signed up for the minute he chose him.

are you saying if he had another agent they may not have done this because another agent would be willing to allow his client sign an extension early in their career? Thats a fair point.

It is exactly what I'm saying. Cubs would sign a Longoria-style extension and have him in opening day lineup with an agent that was willing to negotiate the terms.

As Bryant has already said, Boras works for him, not the other way around. Considering his draft bonus and his ability, there doesn't seem to be much reason for him to settle for a deal. Even if he gets injured, he'll make millions more on his potential alone. And really, the Longoria contract is an agent's blueprint on how to screw your client.

If you're buying that line, I can't help you. Hiring Scott Boras is drawing a line in the sand saying "I want the most money, period." I don't fault him for doing so, but indicating that anyone but Scott is calling the shots is just being naive. He simply won't take clients that won't follow his blueprint. It's not like he has a shortage of interested clientele.

As for the rest of your post... that's why he's going to Triple A. Can't fault the Cubs for that decision either.

EDIT: Moops founds some names.

 

[RnR]

Also, buying out arbitration years for guaranteed cash can be team friendly, but it is hardly screwing your client. Evan Longoria was set for life before he even established a major league identity. There's some security for a young kid there. If he turned into Mike Moustakas instead, we'd be praising his agent for securing the cash. I seriously doubt Evan is losing any sleep over the contract he signed.

 

[the moops]

The whole Boras thing is overblown, IMO. People see examples like Drew and Morales and that shook out, and they see huge contracts for free agents like Ellsbury, but he has had quite a few players sign extensions before they hit free agency. I saw a list a while ago, and can't seem to find it now, but pretty sure Carlos Gonzalez, Troy Tulowotzki, Elvis Andrus were on it.

 

[Wrigley]

Peter Gammons ‏@pgammo 4m4 minutes ago

Harper NL ROY '12 played first 21 games in AAA, Posey '10 opened with 47 G in AAA, won world series. AL '13 ROY Myers opened w/64 G in AAA..

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

JK Simmons is going to throw out the first pitch for the Tigers on Opening Day.

No word on whether Beecher will be catching.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2015/03/27/detroit-tigers-jk-simmons/70541372/

I had a joke loaded about Miles Teller complaining the pitch wasn't quite his tempo, but I'll just keep that to myself now.

 

[dparker713]

Also, buying out arbitration years for guaranteed cash can be team friendly, but it is hardly screwing your client. Evan Longoria was set for life before he even established a major league identity. There's some security for a young kid there. If he turned into Mike Moustakas instead, we'd be praising his agent for securing the cash. I seriously doubt Evan is losing any sleep over the contract he signed.

Longoria was a top pick and got a $3M signing bonus less than two years prior to his debut. Not as significant as the $17.5M guarantee for his first 6 years, but he was fairly set already. In exchange for the added security, he gave away his rights to 4 years of arbitration and options on his 3 most valuable free agent years totaling $26.5M - basically the ballpark rate for one of his prime PA years.

Sure, some of these deals make sense for the players. But Longoria's contract is ridiculously lop-sided.

 

[The Ref]

The concept of the deal longoria signed is sound. Give up your arbitration years and maybe year one of FA for a life changing amount of money. It's a great deal for the club if you become mike trout. It's a great deal for the player if you become the Greek god of Suck.

Problem with Longoria is he gave a ton. In hindsight that's a bad move. Then again he isn't going to sleep on a park bench anytime soon either.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Eric Byrnes' hair is glorious.

 

[Swing 51]

The Chicago Cubs have reassigned top prospect Kris Bryant, who leads the majors with nine spring training home runs, to their minor league camp.

The Cubs made the move Monday, less than a week before they open their season against the St. Louis Cardinals.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/12587428/kris-bryant-javier-baez-addison-russell-sent-minors-chicago-cubs

 

[Grahamburn]

The Chicago Cubs have reassigned top prospect Kris Bryant, who leads the majors with nine spring training home runs, to their minor league camp.

The Cubs made the move Monday, less than a week before they open their season against the St. Louis Cardinals.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/12587428/kris-bryant-javier-baez-addison-russell-sent-minors-chicago-cubs

We all knew he was going back down. Why is everyone so bent out of shape about it? Sure, it sucks, but that's the way it is. 12 games now or 162 6 years from now. How many wins, guys?

 

[pantagrapher]

The Chicago Cubs have reassigned top prospect Kris Bryant, who leads the majors with nine spring training home runs, to their minor league camp.

The Cubs made the move Monday, less than a week before they open their season against the St. Louis Cardinals.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/12587428/kris-bryant-javier-baez-addison-russell-sent-minors-chicago-cubs

We all knew he was going back down. Why is everyone so bent out of shape about it? Sure, it sucks, but that's the way it is. 12 games now or 162 6 years from now. How many wins, guys?

Seriously, it's hard to believe this is still causing any issues. All the casual fans have had this gently explained to them by now.

 

[Eephus]

The Chicago Cubs have reassigned top prospect Kris Bryant, who leads the majors with nine spring training home runs, to their minor league camp.

The Cubs made the move Monday, less than a week before they open their season against the St. Louis Cardinals.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/12587428/kris-bryant-javier-baez-addison-russell-sent-minors-chicago-cubs

We all knew he was going back down. Why is everyone so bent out of shape about it? Sure, it sucks, but that's the way it is. 12 games now or 162 6 years from now. How many wins, guys?

They're going to miss the wild card by a game leading to riots and the ritual slaughter of all goats in greater Chicagoland.

 

[Bobcat10]

Rendon to Dr. Andrews for 2nd opinion on knee. Dangit...

 

[Annyong]

Rendon to Dr. Andrews for 2nd opinion on knee. Dangit...

thats not bueno

 

[jfranco77]

Drew Storen left today's game with some kind of injury.

Rafael Soriano to the red courtesy phone, please

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Rendon to Dr. Andrews for 2nd opinion on knee. Dangit...

thats not bueno