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2014 Oakland Raiders Regular Season Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Raiderfan32904
- Start date
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I would if you gave me back Hue Jackson and a new D coord. In a heartbeat!
This is where I'm at too. The only bright spot on the team is Carr. I think Oakland is a little more desirable coaching destination than it used to be. A future coach no longer has to worry about Uncle Al breathing down his neck and messing with the playbook anymore.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I'm not ignoring anything. I know the Raiders history well. I know we can do better then what we have received from Allen up to this point.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
WE'RE NOT THE BUCS!
WE'RE NOT THE BUCS!
WE'RE NOT THE BUCS!
WE'RE NOT THE BUCS!
WE'RE NOT THE BUCS!
massraider
Footballguy
Maybe so. Allen has two games coaching on an even field with the rest of the league.
No one wants to hear it anymore, I know. Doesn't make it less true. I'd like to know what a great coach would have done differently last year. That team didn't seem poorly coached, just lack of talent. I felt like they played hard all year.
I expect them to get this season. If the team quits, fair enough.
Cutting him midseason, then expecting to get a decent coach I just find hard to believe.
ICON211
Footballguy
If he stays the season fine, but I don't see how getting rid of him midseason really affects next year, especially if they brought in a competent GM as well.
Chaka
Footballguy
I agree with you but not hiring Olson and his incredibly predictable and unimaginative offense is one thing they could have done differently. The guys offenses would struggle to put points on the board at the high school level. He must give one heck of an incredible interview because there is no reason for him to have a job as an OC in the NFL.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
If the Raiders play this poorly against the Patriots on Sunday I think Allen may be fired at halftime.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
ICON211
Footballguy
Careful, we haven't played this week yet. In all seriousness that really was an embarrassment last night.Raider Nation said:I came in to post this
kaso
Footballguy
Agreed. Nothing but massive steps in the wrong direction if they fire Allen mid-season.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Not sure I agree. Yes, it's hard to win with a talentless squad. Yes, it takes a few years to rebuild. Yes, they did a good job cleaning up salary cap issues.
But do you think McKenzie is truly showing talent in fostering future growth? We let two of our highest impact players (Veldheer and Houston) go -- you can cite reasons for both sides of why it happened, but bottom line is the team is MUCH better now and in the future with both of those guys still on the squad.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul in signing past-prime low impact players on short-term deals (Tuck, Woodley, Smith Brown) that we'll need to flip pretty soon anyway is not the way to future success. Draft picks in past 2 years have been off the mark -- drafts have an element of crap shoots anyway, but outside of this year, picks have been nearly all been misses.
And while Reggie is getting lauded for this draft, let's be honest -- it was really hard to f up. Anyone who has a lick of football sense would have taken Mack as the best value in one, and know that you needed a QB to build around. He's getting credit for something my 8 year old would know what to do from playing Madden.
And Dennis Allen? Not the coach for this team in transition. We don't need a playbook manager, we need a leader who has vision and a higher ability to shape the team proactively and reactively. Examples: has he really defined an identity for this team? Has he adjusted philosophies based on team strengths or to mitigate team weaknesses?
Not only am I fine with both of them taking a walk at the end of the season, I think it's due. Unless we get a Gruden back, we can wait until end of season.
Is Gruden a realistic possibility? Has anyone heard he's interested in getting back into coaching? I imagine he's pretty happy with his TV gig.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I doubt that Gruden coaches again. He is in a sweet position and making a ton of money. Why would he subject himself to the pressure cooker that is being an NFL head coach?Bruno2 said:
Speaking of Veldheer, his play for the Cards has been really weak this year. In fact, I would go as far to say that Penn's play has been better. So right now, as much as I was against the move, it may have been the correct decision.
From what Mark Davis has said lately, an evaluation will come during the bye week. As frustrated as we all are, what good would firing Allen do at this point? Who would assume the HC position? It would likely be Sparano. Does anyone consider that an upgrade? Who are the other candidates on the current staff that would be an upgrade.
It isn't a given that firing the staff would be a step backwards. It just depends on the hire. For me, I want to see an hire that is grounded in the quick tempo, spread offense. Just look at the difference Andy Reid made in KC, or Chip Kelly in Philly. Granted both those teams had more talent to work with I think a coach will make a difference.
Chaka
Footballguy
ICON211
Footballguy
Article about the former Raiders in Arizona talking about the Raiders and the firing of Hue.
http://www.mercurynews.com/raiders/ci_26562180/former-oakland-raiders-can-pinpoint-downfall-hue-jacksons
http://www.mercurynews.com/raiders/ci_26562180/former-oakland-raiders-can-pinpoint-downfall-hue-jacksons
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I don't know. I liked Hue and his offense, but I remember 2011. They weren't a great team, yes much better than the current sideshow, still they couldn't beat a mediocre San Diego team at home to get into the playoffs. And they had just mortgaged their future to get Palmer, so to say they were a team on the rise, I'm not so sure I agree with that, especially with the salary cap issues looming. Some sort of rebuilding or deconstruction had to happen at some point. And in my opinion, the only player I think the Raiders miss and really blew it on, is Veldheer.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I give them props for playing hard today. But what a frustrating way to end the game.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Proud of the effort. 
massraider
Footballguy
Obviously need to fire everyone.
ICON211
Footballguy
ICON211
Footballguy
So based on a close loss on the road this earned Reggie and Allen, what 3 or 4 more years?
massraider
Footballguy
Not what I said, or what I was implying. And frankly, not really sure how that could be implied by what I said.
This game was more of what I thought I saw last year. A team that competes, and doesn't make a ton of mental errors.
The team is a lot closer to being good than bad.
Hey, we should continue the conversation about how they really don't deserve credit for any good draft picks, because they were obvious! That's a good one!
This game was more of what I thought I saw last year. A team that competes, and doesn't make a ton of mental errors.
The team is a lot closer to being good than bad.
Hey, we should continue the conversation about how they really don't deserve credit for any good draft picks, because they were obvious! That's a good one!
massraider
Footballguy
Don't bother responding to me, if you are going to put words in my mouth.
ICON211
Footballguy
Fair enough,and I give them credit for the good picks, that was not me. I don't agree that they are a lot closer to good than bad though. Today was a good hard fight and a step in the right direction. I don't have a problem with them playing the year out and re-evaluating after either.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Great effort. Competed till the end, sorry but moral victories count the same as blowout losses in my book. Still on track for Sparano for the bye week. Zero and three is still 0-3' proud of the team, but DA still gotta go.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
It is about time the defense showed up. I think the Raiders got robbed on two non calls that should have been PI. One positive is the OLine is keeping the pocket clean for Carr. Carr has a ways to go, but shows some serious promise. We need Holmes and Moore to make more plays. Jones has been solid so far.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
So we should throw them a party and give them another 3 year pass because they finally managed to not screw up the draft too badly this year?
Do you think that Reggie has made the most of all his draft picks through his tenure so far, and has shown an eye for talent in rebuilding a team that desperately needs to rebuild? I don't, and think he's too concerned with creating a team of "his" guys which tells me that he;s more concerned about his job than about the long term success of this club.
Can you really say that Dennis Allen has proven he's created an identity, purpose, and cohesion behind this squad? I don't, only because I don't see it on the field nor do I hear it in the press. Instead, I read a vet like Woodson say this about the loss to Houston:
"I'm embarrassed for this team. I'm embarrassed for these fans. And the thing about it is, I'm part of it. I don't know what we need to do as a team going forward. I know something is going to have to be done."
You can read through this thread -- I'm usually the glass half full Pollyanna guy. But I'm tired of waiting around to see forward momentum, and I am not going to keep accepting anything less than a tangible, visible commitment to excellence.
Not seeing it from Reggie and Allen.
My 2 cents.
massraider
Footballguy
I think the team needs to show improvement for Allen to stay. So, just to reiterate, for the cheap seats: I don't want to sign Allen and McKenzie to a lifetime contract.
As to grading the drafts: I think it's incomplete. Watson and Hayden we just don't know yet. We don't. As for FINALLY not screwing up the draft, they've had 2.5 drafts. We have three games to grade this draft and one season to grade last year's. History tells us that's not enough time. Grading Sio Moore after his rookie year wouldn't be very positive. Anyone want to get rid of Sio now? No. He looks like a player. Especially with corners. Like to see Hayden get on the field before I decide that Reggie screwed up. Especially considering the sorry draft Hayden came from.
If it looks like the team isn't responding to Allen, or looks undisciplined, I will see no other way than Allen to be gone. I haven't seen that yet.
My biggest fear is that the cycle appears to continue. Two years, gone. Two years, gone. No continuity, no respect around the league.
I think people have their head in the sand if they think a top coaching prospect or front office man would come here if we cleaned house. Any personnel man would look at it and say, 'Sure, Reggie gets one season with cap space, where do I sign up??'
Firing Allen now wouldn't improve the team this year. And it would just make every prospective coach shake their head.
If you are fine with Allen getting to finish the season, we really aren't in disagreement. Because that's as far as I am willing to go. I'm maybe just a bit more patient as a fan. We have a lot of new bodies, more than any team in the league. I was expecting it to take time.
ICON211
Footballguy
Throw in that they somehow brought back Knapp, which was absolutely mind boggling, and replaced him with Olsen.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet · 12h#Raiders source close to Mark Davis notes GMs get more than one coach. Belief is foundation being built, Reggie McKenzie in no trouble
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet · 12hOne more thing for #Raiders and GM Reggie McKenzie: Team thinks this draft will be fantastic: Mack, Carr, Jackson, Ellis, Carrie
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
We're in agreement on many things.I think the team needs to show improvement for Allen to stay. So, just to reiterate, for the cheap seats: I don't want to sign Allen and McKenzie to a lifetime contract.
As to grading the drafts: I think it's incomplete. Watson and Hayden we just don't know yet. We don't. As for FINALLY not screwing up the draft, they've had 2.5 drafts. We have three games to grade this draft and one season to grade last year's. History tells us that's not enough time. Grading Sio Moore after his rookie year wouldn't be very positive. Anyone want to get rid of Sio now? No. He looks like a player. Especially with corners. Like to see Hayden get on the field before I decide that Reggie screwed up. Especially considering the sorry draft Hayden came from.
If it looks like the team isn't responding to Allen, or looks undisciplined, I will see no other way than Allen to be gone. I haven't seen that yet.
My biggest fear is that the cycle appears to continue. Two years, gone. Two years, gone. No continuity, no respect around the league.
I think people have their head in the sand if they think a top coaching prospect or front office man would come here if we cleaned house. Any personnel man would look at it and say, 'Sure, Reggie gets one season with cap space, where do I sign up??'
Firing Allen now wouldn't improve the team this year. And it would just make every prospective coach shake their head.
If you are fine with Allen getting to finish the season, we really aren't in disagreement. Because that's as far as I am willing to go. I'm maybe just a bit more patient as a fan. We have a lot of new bodies, more than any team in the league. I was expecting it to take time.
Firing Allen half-way into the season would be disastrous; it accomplishes nothing.
Drafts have a lot of inherent luck to them -- not all top picks work out (Jamarcus), and you never know when you have a diamond in the rough (Sio, to your point, as well as Rivera, Streater, and McGloin offer some hope that this front office can find value in later rounds/UFAs). But balanced against the talent that left, some pretty bad decisions (Palmer, Schaub), and acquiring no true difference maker in the last two years doesn't convince me that with more time, Reggie and Dennis do much better.
Also agree that the cycle of 2 and outs doesn't help continuity. To your point, it doesn't help recruit front office replacements. And I know rebuilding takes time, without question.
But if we have a third 4-12 season, after the two 8-8 seasons under the turmoil that was Hue and Cable, and not really being respectable since 2003, I don't think more time for Reggie and Dennis is the answer.
massraider
Footballguy
RaiderTruths @RaiderTruths Sep 16
Donald Penn ranks as the 10th best tackle on PFF, per @JoshDubowAP. Jared Veldheer? 34th.
Donald Penn ranks as the 10th best tackle on PFF, per @JoshDubowAP. Jared Veldheer? 34th.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
Like I said earlier today in this thread, Jared Veldheer wasn't doing anything special this year.
massraider
Footballguy
I actually would have been fine with re-signing Veldheer. Houston, not quite as much.
Veldheer did have a good game vs. JPP last week. He got spun like a top vs. San Diego, tho.
Veldheer did have a good game vs. JPP last week. He got spun like a top vs. San Diego, tho.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I dunno know, I watched part of the AZ game last week and iirc Veeldheer had a holding penalty and gave up a sack in the first half. I know he had a couple of penalties in week 1. Too early tell but maybe Reggie got that one right. I will be watching their games throughout the season to monitor his play.
I am surprised no one else has mentioned the two non calls on what was clearly a PI on a couple of long throws. Very disappointing the offense couldn't get into the EZ today. Carr hurried a 3rd down throw that killed one other drive deep into Pats territory. Fricken D. Moore seems to always disappoint in clutch.
I am surprised no one else has mentioned the two non calls on what was clearly a PI on a couple of long throws. Very disappointing the offense couldn't get into the EZ today. Carr hurried a 3rd down throw that killed one other drive deep into Pats territory. Fricken D. Moore seems to always disappoint in clutch.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
So what happens if Mariota falls into our laps in the spring? Carr was the shiny new toy this summer, but we hear that every year. Remember when some people were talking about how Tyler Wilson was the steal of the draft last season, and he got waived eight seconds later. I'm just wondering what kind of future this staff projects for Carr.
Chaka
Footballguy
How many teams would you say have made the most of all of their draft picks over the past three drafts?
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