tdoss
Footballguy
Be a helluva way to walk away but I doubt it. The guy is still as animated as ever...but then again...maybe that's because he knows the clock is ticking.
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2015 ACC Basketball - CLOSED (use 2016 thread now) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter oso diablo
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tdoss
Footballguy
That truly was a string of awfulness. Horrible call after another and the horrible makeup calls...just terrible blemish on a fantastic game.
tdoss
Footballguy
All very true...I'm just saying don't expect 65% shooting again...so it's going to take a considerable effort from all parties to keep up with Wisky's offense.Sammy3469 said:
We'll definitely need turnovers and hopefully someone is in Dekker's face all game and it affects him.
I'd be surprised if coming at Kaminsky with smaller guys will work this time but worth a try until it doesn't work.
Winslow will have to do his thing. Okafor will have to as well or already tie up some double team and pass out quickly (it's impressive to see a man palm a ball like a grapefruit but just get it out of there...make that decision quicker).
And who he gets it to...along with Tyus driving and kicking to...will have to hit (Cook, Jones...to some extent Allen).
But you're right...with no turnovers...it'll be an uphill battle. Duke must get some stops, rebounds and turnovers...just for the above to be effective.
But if say Winslow and Okafor do their thing and no one else is hitting...we lose...regardless of the defensive effort.
Duke cannot afford long stretches of no scoring...which they do seem to have...moreso than you'd expect with this offense. Thankfully their defense has gotten better and can weather it usually. I just don't see anyone being able to stop Wisconsin for stretches...only moments.
Hell...Kentucky couldn't do it and they're supposed to be Naismith's gift of everything defensive on a basketball court.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Should be a great game tonight. Rooting for Wisky since it's nice to see new teams get here, but certainly not upset with an ACC Champ.
Most people seem to be picking Wisky, but I like Duke in a close one. I think Winslow balances out Dekker, Frank the Tank comes up short on ammo and K is such a great big game coach that Duke pulls it out.
Most people seem to be picking Wisky, but I like Duke in a close one. I think Winslow balances out Dekker, Frank the Tank comes up short on ammo and K is such a great big game coach that Duke pulls it out.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Very interesting question. Not likely, but he's in pretty good shape physically, mentally and in terms of being called one of the two best ever. He's pretty much assured of the wins record with Boeheim going down and only having 3 years left at Cuse with their sanctions. Last count I saw was 1017 to 966. Having watched that "battle" in football as a PSU alum, don't think he doesn't want it badly. All these top coaches have healthy egos and regardless of what Paterno and Bowden said, they both wanted to end up on top. There is little to no chance, IMO, that the NCAA gives back some of Boeheim's wins like they did to Paterno, so I think K is safe. And it's important to the fans and alumni as well, as evidenced by the '409' shirts and slogans at PSU. I also saw a number of '903' or '1000 and counting' t-shirts on Duke fans at the Charlotte site. So it is a big deal and he has it locked up, I think.tdoss said:
Health-wise, he saw the troubles of Jimmy V, obviously, and Dean Smith recently. Maybe he wants to spend more time with the family before any issues hit.
The last thing I would think about is that he has always been very accommodating to his assistant coaches, giving them the halftime TV interview and other exposure benefits like that. I'm not sure if there is a Duke alum that is ready to step into his shoes, but if there is one, I don't think it's crazy to think he could step aside to give that coach the opening when the timing is right.
Anyway, just an outsiders view of the question. Very interesting thought though.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
I don't think there's any chance K walks away. The 2016 recruiting class is shaping up too well (nothing done yet, but things looks pretty good for some pretty elite guys, similar to this year's class) for him to retire before that.
I think he still has 3-5 more years in him. He made a comment at one of the pressers (not sure which one) during the tournament that his wife and daughters want him to keep coaching.
I think he still has 3-5 more years in him. He made a comment at one of the pressers (not sure which one) during the tournament that his wife and daughters want him to keep coaching.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Funny how after watching Duke beat Wisconsin earlier this year, I'm more nervous just because of how everything broke for them. Granted they were playing at Wisconsin so that probably was worth a few points. So maybe Duke only has to shoot 55%. But it does seem like Duke needs a few things to break their way. They can't have any foul trouble (which I think won't be a problem b/c refs won't want to call it that tight). They are essentially a 5 man offense and only 3 of them really create offense. Cook can create some but seems best suited as the secondary option. They probably have to hope they can get someone in foul trouble. Hayes may very well be the X-factor this time if he hits his shots.
K out-coached Bo last time they played with the switching everything. Obviously Wisconsin will be prepared for this and expect Kaminsky to go to work down low. K doesn't seem to like switching defenses a ton but I feel he might need to just throw every defense at them and hope it trips them up enough. Switch everything, press, 3-2, 2-3, etc. I'd like to see an amoeba defense which somehow keeps Okafor in the paint. But Duke's defense is night and day so I think they can be alright especially if Wisky misses some shots.
Offensively, Duke should be fine. They didn't shoot a ton of 3's in Madison and got to the rim at will so I think some of that will be easy to replicate. Duke has enough firepower that any one guy could take over a game like Jones against Gonzaga. It should be a good game.
K out-coached Bo last time they played with the switching everything. Obviously Wisconsin will be prepared for this and expect Kaminsky to go to work down low. K doesn't seem to like switching defenses a ton but I feel he might need to just throw every defense at them and hope it trips them up enough. Switch everything, press, 3-2, 2-3, etc. I'd like to see an amoeba defense which somehow keeps Okafor in the paint. But Duke's defense is night and day so I think they can be alright especially if Wisky misses some shots.
Offensively, Duke should be fine. They didn't shoot a ton of 3's in Madison and got to the rim at will so I think some of that will be easy to replicate. Duke has enough firepower that any one guy could take over a game like Jones against Gonzaga. It should be a good game.
sporthenry
Footballguy
About K, he is also signed up through 2016 for Team USA. I saw some conjecture that he'd go out with a win and then just coach them but I highly doubt the last game he coaches is with Team USA. He has said this team rejuvenated him and every year he seems to enjoy it more. Cupboard isn't bare next year but will likely be a struggle. I don't follow recruiting enough to know about 2016 but someone said that was lining up well. I also think he has a bit more to do to ensure that Duke stays elite after he leaves. Whether its one of his old assistants growing into the role or Capel taking over.
Tau837
Footballguy
If K were to retire from college basketball, I assume that would guarantee Tyus would join Okafor and Winslow in leaving early. And with Cook graduating, that means K would be leaving fewer players behind than normal. And with next year looking like the team will take a step back, that could make the idea of leaving on top a bit more enticing.
The idea that the 2016 recruiting class is too enticing to leave doesn't seem compelling IMO. I mean, as long as he is there and has not announced retirement plans, I assume that he will always have another compelling recruiting class on the horizon.
I do think that the fact that there is no obvious successor is an issue that would make him more likely to stay longer.
As for legacy, his place in history is pretty much set. Some will view him as the best all time, and I assume some will still say Wooden is ahead of him. But there is nothing he can do in his time remaining to change how people compare him to Wooden. I'm sure K has an ego, but I don't see that as something that would be high on his list of reasons to go or stay.
Agree with the consensus that it doesn't seem likely. But it is an intriguing idea.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
About to start. Enjoy the ride Duke fans. Or try to, at least. I found it hard to actually enjoy the games in 2005 and 2009. Just too nervous. But I think you have them.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Great game so far. Still seems like Duke is better, but the foul trouble is worrisome. First 6-8 of the second half is huge for that.
Seems like Okafor/Kaminsky is a draw. K/Ryan is as well, IMO. Winslow/Dekker is even so far, but could decide the game. Jones is still a wildcard for Duke.
Second straight game that we see K at halftime for the TV interview, rather than an Asst. Wonder if that's something CBS required?
Seems like Okafor/Kaminsky is a draw. K/Ryan is as well, IMO. Winslow/Dekker is even so far, but could decide the game. Jones is still a wildcard for Duke.
Second straight game that we see K at halftime for the TV interview, rather than an Asst. Wonder if that's something CBS required?
tdoss
Footballguy
I'd agree...push between Okafor/Kaminsky.
I think Winslow has contributed more than Dekker all around.
Wisconsin has other players stepping up to make up that difference.
Duke needs Tyus and Cook to find their way.
Haven't seen anything of Matt Jones...thankfully K brought in Grayson and he's a spark...even Amile has found some quality moments.
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sporthenry
Footballguy
Plumlee can't be much worse. Let Okafor sit for a few and Plumlee go use up his fouls.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Duke not getting the calls, but really not terrible calls that I can see. Just missing the 50/50 calls.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Congrats to the Duke guys. Certainly got the better play, and the better calls, in the second half. Dekker disappeared and Grayson Allen (who seems like the next hated Dukie) played well, but Jones might get the MOP.
Enjoy it.
Enjoy it.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Duke was obviously the beneficiary of 2 really bad calls down the stretch. Winslow clearly stepped out on the Okafor layup and the ball was off his finger a minute later. The first miss is forgivable but I'm not sure how the refs don't give Wiscy the ball the 2nd time.
Happy Duke won the game but those couple of calls have definitely dampened it for me. Non Duke fans will never give them credit for those one, which is too bad.
Happy Duke won the game but those couple of calls have definitely dampened it for me. Non Duke fans will never give them credit for those one, which is too bad.
tdoss
Footballguy
This was a very tough team...they played tough and physical...not a typical Duke characteristic.
Their defense improved as they went through the season after Suliamon was cut...they really solidified and became a great ameoba-like defense.
Allen really saved Duke tonight...like I was saying, someone needed to step up outside of Okafor/Winslow for them to win. Was hoping it would be Matt Jones...but it didn't happen. Maybe next year he matures and becomes something...right now he's an afterthought in my opinion.
Really want to be greedy and hope Tyus stays...but I can deal with him leaving (even though he's not ready)...I can't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Okafor is definitely gone and so is Winslow...so the team will definitely need some new blood to take up that slack.
Their defense improved as they went through the season after Suliamon was cut...they really solidified and became a great ameoba-like defense.
Allen really saved Duke tonight...like I was saying, someone needed to step up outside of Okafor/Winslow for them to win. Was hoping it would be Matt Jones...but it didn't happen. Maybe next year he matures and becomes something...right now he's an afterthought in my opinion.
Really want to be greedy and hope Tyus stays...but I can deal with him leaving (even though he's not ready)...I can't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Okafor is definitely gone and so is Winslow...so the team will definitely need some new blood to take up that slack.
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sporthenry
Footballguy
Duke benefitted from some calls but Winslow and Okafor in foil trouble took them out of their games.
Tau837
Footballguy
The refs also called blocks on two clear Winslow charges in the second half and gave Tyus a flop charge call on defense that should have been a no call and layup for Wisconsin. The refs were in very poor form.
That said, I still think Duke deserved the win. I am a non-Duke fan who gives them credit.
Allen was sensational. Hard to believe there was no room for him to get more minutes this season. I can tell I will despise him for as long as he is there to play against State.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
The problem is that there were some very bad calls, going Duke's way, at the end. It dampens the perspective. It 's like the UNC titles in 82 and 93. All you heard was that mistakes by Fred Brown and Chris Weber lost it for the other teams. In truth, Worthy's hustle for the initial pass and the general defense against Weber really won those games, just like Allen's mid-2nd half push and Jones' play down the stretch did tonight (along with some great D at the end). But yet.....you still can't get mad as someone for saying that Duke gets all the calls. Just not a good look. Doesn't really matter of course. A championship is a championship.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Who gives a crap. Plenty of people in the NCAA bball thread that aren't duke fans that already acknowledged how minor the impact those calls had on the game. There's bad calls throughout a game. The haters are always gonna hate. Allen saved their butts when they were down 9 and then Duke just dominated in the last 4 minutes or so. Just a great performance.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I give duke credit. Tyus jones made huge plays down the stretch.
People in the other thread are going ape#### about the refs because a few duke guys were blaming them in the first half.
Bo Ryan is right that there is too much contact on the game. But duke didn't win because of that. They won because jones grew a pair down the stretch and took over.
People in the other thread are going ape#### about the refs because a few duke guys were blaming them in the first half.
Bo Ryan is right that there is too much contact on the game. But duke didn't win because of that. They won because jones grew a pair down the stretch and took over.
NutterButter
Footballguy
simey
Footballguy
Bad calls did not decide the outcome. Duke played better than Wisconsin the last few minutes of the game, and earned their win. Congrats Blue 
s, and enjoy the moment...and I hope the Wolfies rip you to shreds next season. 
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
IMO the more likely cause for folks fo put an asterisk on this title is how Duke managed to avoid playing Kentucky.TLEF316 said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Tyus Jones has a really punchable face, doesn't he? Some people just do. Matthew Lillard does, too. He's probably a sweet guy but my instincts are to punch him on sight.
Who won?
Who won?
sporthenry
Footballguy
Two for two in that respect. Although this one had a better chance than 2010 of beating them.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I say this in jest, but asterisk away. Seriously. State's still the '83 champion. UNC's still the '84 champion, etc.
The last 14 minutes of the game were an absolute defensive clinic and Wisconsin's bad pick and roll defense reared it's ugly head for them. When you have an opposing PG that makes good decisions with the ball in that setting and you play soft on the pick, you are asking for trouble. Over 80 minutes, Duke exploited that tendency when they needed.
The ironic part in all this is the game totally shifted when Okafor went off the court since Amile could bother Kamiesky enough on defense so he wasn't efficient. Once that happened and M Jones stayed home on Dekker, Wisky's guards simply couldn't create efficient offense. In the end, Duke's guards were simply better than Wisky's.
And Bo can harp all he wants on the refs, but when you let Allen and Jones get into the lane at will, you are asking the refs to swallow their whistle. That's the gamble you make with guards that can penetrate. Give them an inch to put you at a bad angle and slightly out of position and fouls get called. Simple as that. It works against the PG's in the Big 10 this year, but it didn't against Duke in December and it didn't last night.
NMYMND
Footballguy
I wish UNC was the 84 champ, would have been a nice ending to the Jordan-Perkins era and Dan Dakich as we know him today may never have existed.
Now, since we know that a Duke or UNC title can sometimes be a harbinger of another ACC school winning the following year - 82-83, 91-92, 01-02, 09-10 - who wins it next year.
Now, since we know that a Duke or UNC title can sometimes be a harbinger of another ACC school winning the following year - 82-83, 91-92, 01-02, 09-10 - who wins it next year.
Tau837
Footballguy
I've seen some early rankings with UVA and UNC ranked in the top few. They would have to be the odds on favorites for an ACC repeat. Though personally I remain skeptical that a team with UVA's approach can ever win 6 straight NCAA tournament elimination games. So to me, UNC is the ACC favorite. :X
I am optimistic that State will push the top teams in the conference, though. I expect a top 15 season and a top 4 ACC finish.
I am optimistic that State will push the top teams in the conference, though. I expect a top 15 season and a top 4 ACC finish.
randall146
Footballguy
Does any other team in NCAA history get this asterisk, or is it reserved for 2014-15 Duke? 'Cuz I'm pretty sure plenty of past champions (maybe most) avoided playing the "best" other team in the bracket.
NutterButter
Footballguy
You forgot the Duke 2010 championship as well. Just those two.
Every other team played all the best teams possible.Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
My point was that avoiding UK was more cause for denigration than the officiating last night. TLEF is the one saying others are putting the asterisk up, not me. Take it up with him.In the general CBB thread, I pointed out the trend of champs avoiding 1-seeds in general. At the all-chalk Final Four in 2008, the champ beat two 1-seeds on Final Four weekend. Since then, the champs combined have defeated two 1-seeds in total.
We're in an era where you pretty much need to be either the best team going into the tournament, or have someone else knock out the best team for you. UConn did the double last year of knocking out Florida and winning the title, but they had a few other favors done for them along the way.
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tdoss
Footballguy
I wouldn't take my eyes off of ND.That is one well coached team.I've seen some early rankings with UVA and UNC ranked in the top few. They would have to be the odds on favorites for an ACC repeat. Though personally I remain skeptical that a team with UVA's approach can ever win 6 straight NCAA tournament elimination games. So to me, UNC is the ACC favorite. :X
I am optimistic that State will push the top teams in the conference, though. I expect a top 15 season and a top 4 ACC finish.
What are they losing this year...and bringing in?
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Aerial Assault
Footballguy
They're losing Connaughton and Grant, so obviously that's big. It's my understanding that they do have two quality freshmen coming in, so with further development from Vasturia, Jackson, Auguste, Beachem and especially Colson, they could be very good again and perhaps deeper than they were this past season. I don't think their success this season was some fluke.I wouldn't take my eyes off of ND.I've seen some early rankings with UVA and UNC ranked in the top few. They would have to be the odds on favorites for an ACC repeat. Though personally I remain skeptical that a team with UVA's approach can ever win 6 straight NCAA tournament elimination games. So to me, UNC is the ACC favorite. :X
I am optimistic that State will push the top teams in the conference, though. I expect a top 15 season and a top 4 ACC finish.
That us one well coached team.
What are they losing this year...and bringing in?
Tau837
Footballguy
Grant and Connaughton were ND's two best players, and Grant was arguably the best player in the conference. ND will still have some quality talent and experience, but IMO there is no way they won't take a step back, likely a significant step back. Remember, they won a lot of close games... they were 10-4 in games decided by 5 points or less and/or in OT, including 4-0 in OT, so taking a step back could have a drastic effect on their record.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Yeah, dunno; depends on if the three returning starters take a step up and how Beachem, Colson, and the freshmen develop. It might look like a step back on paper but I think they could be deeper and better defensively.
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sporthenry
Footballguy
For comparison's sake, this Duke team ranks 7th out of the last 14 champions. Last year's UConn team rates out the worst followed by Syracuse and the other two UConn teams. This year was just very strong with the top 5 teams being higher rated than #1 last year. Somewhat unfortunate that a few of them couldn't have played in different years. Duke did catch a break by getting an easier path than Wisconsin. I think Duke's path was underrated because of the ease with which they knocked off teams but no denying it wasn't Arizona and Kentucky. But you have to be lucky and good to win. And heck, probably makes up for a few of the years when Duke had the best team but didn't win.
I was surprised to see 2010 Duke was actually the 4th strongest champion according to KenPom. I would have thought they would have been further down as I thought this team was better than them but I guess recency bias got the best of me.
I was surprised to see 2010 Duke was actually the 4th strongest champion according to KenPom. I would have thought they would have been further down as I thought this team was better than them but I guess recency bias got the best of me.
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