2015 ACC Basketball - CLOSED (use 2016 thread now) (1 Viewer)

[TobiasFunke]

Can't believe Duke had the gall to win its "national championship" without facing the pre-tournament #1, a team that needed a last-minute comeback to beat the third-best team in the ACC and then lost its very next game by 7 to a team that Duke beat twice. Probably shouldn't even count it IMO.

Seriously, congrats to all the Duke fans here. A great run, a great team and a great coach who saw which way the winds were blowing and was able to alter his approach late in his career accordingly- something that's not easy to do.

 

[Apple Jack]

I've seen some early rankings with UVA and UNC ranked in the top few. They would have to be the odds on favorites for an ACC repeat. Though personally I remain skeptical that a team with UVA's approach can ever win 6 straight NCAA tournament elimination games. So to me, UNC is the ACC favorite. :X

I am optimistic that State will push the top teams in the conference, though. I expect a top 15 season and a top 4 ACC finish.

They'd have a much better chance with a healthy Justin Anderson.

 

[MattFancy]

Can't believe Duke had the gall to win its "national championship" without facing the pre-tournament #1, a team that needed a last-minute comeback to beat the third-best team in the ACC and then lost its very next game by 7 to a team that Duke beat twice. Probably shouldn't even count it IMO.

Seriously, congrats to all the Duke fans here. A great run, a great team and a great coach who saw which way the winds were blowing and was able to alter his approach late in his career accordingly- something that's not easy to do.

Think Roy will start doing that anytime soon?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Can't believe Duke had the gall to win its "national championship" without facing the pre-tournament #1, a team that needed a last-minute comeback to beat the third-best team in the ACC and then lost its very next game by 7 to a team that Duke beat twice. Probably shouldn't even count it IMO.

Seriously, congrats to all the Duke fans here. A great run, a great team and a great coach who saw which way the winds were blowing and was able to alter his approach late in his career accordingly- something that's not easy to do.

Think Roy will start doing that anytime soon?

I don't think he can. There's just not that many one and dones to be had, and there's only room for a handful of coaches to buddy up to Worldwide Wes and the NBA powers that be and to be perceived as guys who can ease your path to the lottery and the big leagues.

I don't think that's a huge problem though. There's plenty of ways to win a title or put together an elite college team. The Kentucky/Duke method clearly works, but so does the Wisconsin/Virginia method.

 

[MattFancy]

Can't believe Duke had the gall to win its "national championship" without facing the pre-tournament #1, a team that needed a last-minute comeback to beat the third-best team in the ACC and then lost its very next game by 7 to a team that Duke beat twice. Probably shouldn't even count it IMO.

Seriously, congrats to all the Duke fans here. A great run, a great team and a great coach who saw which way the winds were blowing and was able to alter his approach late in his career accordingly- something that's not easy to do.

Think Roy will start doing that anytime soon?

I don't think he can. There's just not that many one and dones to be had, and there's only room for a handful of coaches to buddy up to Worldwide Wes and the NBA powers that be and to be perceived as guys who can ease your path to the lottery and the big leagues.

I don't think that's a huge problem though. There's plenty of ways to win a title or put together an elite college team. The Kentucky/Duke method clearly works, but so does the Wisconsin/Virginia method.

Agreed. It would be nice to get those big recurits, but it's not like Roy's way doesn't work. It just takes awhile it seems for everything to come together.

 

[TLEF316]

Damn. Tokoto enters the draft and completely bus tosses Roy in the process.

Might help the Heels in the Brandon Ingram sweepstakes (although I still think Duke gets him) but that looks pretty bad.

 

[Tango]

Nice win Blue s . It's going to be a tough Monday. You better come to rumble . Good luck!!

I'd be shocked if the game played out like it did earlier this year. Wiscy is playing so well. Gonna be a battle.

Yes, and Duke's non-Okafor core has taken leaps during this run too. These are two teams that are improving. That wouldn't have been true if Kentucky advanced. I hear the game is a pick em? I would've guessed Duke by 3.

Congrats Duke fans!

 

[tdoss]

Damn. Tokoto enters the draft and completely bus tosses Roy in the process.

Might help the Heels in the Brandon Ingram sweepstakes (although I still think Duke gets him) but that looks pretty bad.

What do you mean by bus toss?

I really thought he may jump.

 

[TLEF316]

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying in school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

 

[tdoss]

Yikes...guess you could spin it as he's referring to college versus pros but it sounds like he's pretty straightforward what he means...

 

[ConstruxBoy]

That sucks.

 

[tdoss]

Grant and Connaughton were ND's two best players, and Grant was arguably the best player in the conference. ND will still have some quality talent and experience, but IMO there is no way they won't take a step back, likely a significant step back. Remember, they won a lot of close games... they were 10-4 in games decided by 5 points or less and/or in OT, including 4-0 in OT, so taking a step back could have a drastic effect on their record.

Geez...yea...that's two big pieces gone...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yikes...guess you could spin it as he's referring to college versus pros but it sounds like he's pretty straightforward what he means...

Eh, sounds like a pretty straightforward reference to the many resources available as pros vs the restrictions on all college players. Of course I think that about the college vs pro game anyway- I said basically the same things during that "Okafor would be a top 3 center right now" discussion- so obviously I'm inclined to see it that way.

It hurts next year's team a little bit, but if he thinks this is the best time to jump then best of luck to him. He did have some strong efforts during the tournament, maybe he's worried about what will happen to his stock if Ingram goes to Chapel Hill and cuts into his playing time, which is a legitimate concern.

 

[NMYMND]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

 

[NMYMND]

Also, Manu Lecomte and Deandre Burnett leaving Miami.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/acc/university-of-miami/article17900525.html#storylink=cpy

 

[TLEF316]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

 

[Sammy3469]

Yikes...guess you could spin it as he's referring to college versus pros but it sounds like he's pretty straightforward what he means...

Eh, sounds like a pretty straightforward reference to the many resources available as pros vs the restrictions on all college players. Of course I think that about the college vs pro game anyway- I said basically the same things during that "Okafor would be a top 3 center right now" discussion- so obviously I'm inclined to see it that way.

It hurts next year's team a little bit, but if he thinks this is the best time to jump then best of luck to him. He did have some strong efforts during the tournament, maybe he's worried about what will happen to his stock if Ingram goes to Chapel Hill and cuts into his playing time, which is a legitimate concern.

Sounds more like sour grapes to me than anything, but that's also coming from an alarming unathletic 40 year old. He's greatest weakness (shooting) can be worked either at college or the D-league.

I actually think this is a pretty big deal for UNC next year as even if Ingram comes in, he won't be as good.

This is more an aside, but the entire 2015 class looks pretty pedestrian compared to 2014, so anyone expecting the same type of production from the guys below the top 5 or so in the recruiting rankings is probably going to be disappointed (and the top 5 guys won't be as good as Towns, Okafor, etc). I won't be shocked if the 2014 class goes down as one of the best ever, similar to the 2007 class of Rose, Harden, Mayo, Love, Jordan, Gordon. That's also the reason you hear a few of the older 2016 class thinking about reclassifying to this year's class.

 

[oso diablo]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

real news, inside scoop, or just reasonable speculation?

 

[TLEF316]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

real news, inside scoop, or just reasonable speculation?

The main guys over on the duke boards aren't even hedging their bets any more. Hes fully expected to leave

 

[tdoss]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

I just can't see how anyone could be advising him that he's ready...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

I just can't see how anyone could be advising him that he's ready...

Ready's got nothing to do with it. He just piloted Duke to a national championship and played well while doing so, and the cupboard is pretty bare next year at Duke, he'll be under the microscope and the focus of opposing defenses. Obviously everyone has their own priorities, but if you assume that his is to play professionally and make a lot of money doing so you'd be crazy to advise him to stay. His draft stock is far more likely to down than up.

 

[tdoss]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

I just can't see how anyone could be advising him that he's ready...

Ready's got nothing to do with it. He just piloted Duke to a national championship and played well while doing so, and the cupboard is pretty bare next year at Duke, he'll be under the microscope and the focus of opposing defenses. Obviously everyone has their own priorities, but if you assume that his is to play professionally and make a lot of money doing so you'd be crazy to advise him to stay. His draft stock is far more likely to down than up.

I guess...I just don't see him as having any stock to mention at this point.

But I get your point...he's likely to get exposed next year.

I think he needs to work on his game more and could end up flourishing in the long run...but it is more likely his stock falls next year.

Where is he projected? Can't be higher than 2nd round, right?

 

[TLEF316]

Okafor officially enters the draft. Tyus tweeted something that some will take as evidence that he might come back.

Personally, I take nothing out of that. They'll probably all announce separately so they can get their own moments in the sun.

 

[NutterButter]

Keeping Jones would be huge. Not sure who runs the point without him. If Ingram commits along with Jeter and Obi eligible, they'd be in pretty good shape.

 

[Sammy3469]

Okafor officially enters the draft. Tyus tweeted something that some will take as evidence that he might come back.

Personally, I take nothing out of that. They'll probably all announce separately so they can get their own moments in the sun.

Nice Coach Cal dig

 

[TLEF316]

Okafor officially enters the draft. Tyus tweeted something that some will take as evidence that he might come back.

Personally, I take nothing out of that. They'll probably all announce separately so they can get their own moments in the sun.

Nice Coach Cal dig

Not my intent

 

[tdoss]

Okafor officially enters the draft. Tyus tweeted something that some will take as evidence that he might come back.

Personally, I take nothing out of that. They'll probably all announce separately so they can get their own moments in the sun.

Nice Coach Cal dig

Not my intent

Interesting thought though...

Not enough days on the calendar to spread out the announcement for Cal's guys...so just announce all at once.

 

[NMYMND]

So Duke and Louisville asking Thornton to reclassify could be seen as another indication of NBA plans.

My question, how do you keep up with recruiting as reclassifying seems to be becoming more common? Do you now need to know know the Top 100 seniors and the top 20-25 juniors?

 

[TLEF316]

So Duke and Louisville asking Thornton to reclassify could be seen as another indication of NBA plans.

My question, how do you keep up with recruiting as reclassifying seems to be becoming more common? Do you now need to know know the Top 100 seniors and the top 20-25 juniors?

Thornton is actually the right age to be a rising freshman. He moved back a class when he transferred to Findlay.

I'd be very surprised if duke doesn't get him. Not sure it will be this year though

 

[TobiasFunke]

Thoughts on a discussion we were having at work?

Right now, the most important "uncommitted" recruit for next season is Tyus Jones. His decision could have an impact on many other decisions.

Hes gone.

I just can't see how anyone could be advising him that he's ready...

Ready's got nothing to do with it. He just piloted Duke to a national championship and played well while doing so, and the cupboard is pretty bare next year at Duke, he'll be under the microscope and the focus of opposing defenses. Obviously everyone has their own priorities, but if you assume that his is to play professionally and make a lot of money doing so you'd be crazy to advise him to stay. His draft stock is far more likely to down than up.

I guess...I just don't see him as having any stock to mention at this point.

But I get your point...he's likely to get exposed next year.

I think he needs to work on his game more and could end up flourishing in the long run...but it is more likely his stock falls next year.

Where is he projected? Can't be higher than 2nd round, right?

I'm guessing tail end of the first round. Nothing wrong with that, especially if your ceiling isn't much higher than that. I'd compare his situation (not his play) to Kendall Marshall's. Rave reviews as the leader of a team with tremendous talent. NBA prospects are iffy, but better to strike while the iron is hot than stick around too long, get exposed when you're asked to carry a larger burden on a lesser team the next year, and risk a fortune in guaranteed money in the process.

 

[NMYMND]

So Duke and Louisville asking Thornton to reclassify could be seen as another indication of NBA plans.

My question, how do you keep up with recruiting as reclassifying seems to be becoming more common? Do you now need to know know the Top 100 seniors and the top 20-25 juniors?

Thornton is actually the right age to be a rising freshman. He moved back a class when he transferred to Findlay.

I'd be very surprised if duke doesn't get him. Not sure it will be this year though

I saw that he turns 18 shortly.

Remember seeing a story several years ago on players that voluntarily "held back" during junior/senior high school for more development pre-college. Not that it applies here directly, but guess some of those might be the ones that reclassify back to graduating with their original class.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

So Duke and Louisville asking Thornton to reclassify could be seen as another indication of NBA plans.

My question, how do you keep up with recruiting as reclassifying seems to be becoming more common? Do you now need to know know the Top 100 seniors and the top 20-25 juniors?

Thornton is actually the right age to be a rising freshman. He moved back a class when he transferred to Findlay.

I'd be very surprised if duke doesn't get him. Not sure it will be this year though

I saw that he turns 18 shortly.

Remember seeing a story several years ago on players that voluntarily "held back" during junior/senior high school for more development pre-college. Not that it applies here directly, but guess some of those might be the ones that reclassify back to graduating with their original class.

John Wall is a good example of what you're talking about. Wall transferred after two years of high school and enrolled as a sophomore at his new school, giving him five years of high school. Because of his age at the end of the calendar year of his graduation, there was even a little confusion about whether he could bypass a year of NCAA ball and go straight to the NBA draft.

There's also a small pocket of prospects who quietly repeat 8th grade. They are trying to draw less attention to the repeat year, but are still a year older than their peers in their graduating class. Shabazz Muhammad made it all the way through a year at UCLA before it was discovered he was a year older than he reported.

 

[TLEF316]

Poor Shabazz muhammad. His father is a straight up lunatic (and a crook)

His younger brother(who also repeated a grade) couldn't get any decent offers because they didn't want to deal with the dad. Now he's plodding away as the leading scorer of an embarrassing San Jose state team.

 

[Worm]

Justin Anderson to NBA. Hanlan to NBA.

Also:

Ben Swain ‏@TheBenSwain 5m5 minutes ago
UVA will have to replace Justin Anderson’s 12.2 points per game next year. 60% of the team’s scoring.

lol

 

[Tau837]

So Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, UVA, Miami, and BC (lol) are all taking a step back, right? Any others?

 

[Yenrub]

So Duke and Louisville asking Thornton to reclassify could be seen as another indication of NBA plans.

My question, how do you keep up with recruiting as reclassifying seems to be becoming more common? Do you now need to know know the Top 100 seniors and the top 20-25 juniors?

Thornton is actually the right age to be a rising freshman. He moved back a class when he transferred to Findlay.

I'd be very surprised if duke doesn't get him. Not sure it will be this year though

I saw that he turns 18 shortly.

Remember seeing a story several years ago on players that voluntarily "held back" during junior/senior high school for more development pre-college. Not that it applies here directly, but guess some of those might be the ones that reclassify back to graduating with their original class.

John Wall is a good example of what you're talking about. Wall transferred after two years of high school and enrolled as a sophomore at his new school, giving him five years of high school. Because of his age at the end of the calendar year of his graduation, there was even a little confusion about whether he could bypass a year of NCAA ball and go straight to the NBA draft.

There's also a small pocket of prospects who quietly repeat 8th grade. They are trying to draw less attention to the repeat year, but are still a year older than their peers in their graduating class. Shabazz Muhammad made it all the way through a year at UCLA before it was discovered he was a year older than he reported.

This happened a lot when in my area when I was growing up

 

[Sammy3469]

So Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, UVA, Miami, and BC (lol) are all taking a step back, right? Any others?

ND as well. FSU, Wake, and Va Tech should be better. UVA is probably a wash. They still have Brogdon and Gill which is probably still the best 1-2 punch in the league. I don't think Miami has lost anyone (yet), have they?

 

[Tau837]

So Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, UVA, Miami, and BC (lol) are all taking a step back, right? Any others?

ND as well. FSU, Wake, and Va Tech should be better. UVA is probably a wash. They still have Brogdon and Gill which is probably still the best 1-2 punch in the league. I don't think Miami has lost anyone (yet), have they?

Yeah, I forgot about ND. They might take the biggest step back of all.

As for Miami: Miami Hurricanes basketball players Manu Lecomte, Deandre Burnett to transfer. Those two were 5th and 6th on the team in minutes played this season. Maybe not a huge impact, but it will presumably weaken their depth and overall guard play.

 

[Worm]

Stage is getting setup for State to have another 2012-2013 like season of expectations. Maybe not quite that high but the conference is going to setup just about as well as it can for them to have top-4 conference expectations and a top 5 national seed.

The difference is that team was ranked high because of the expectation of adding a decent recruiting class to a solid core, whereas next years team won't play any freshman. The 2012-2013 freshman underperformed. Unless you're a Kentucky or Duke and all the newcomers are top shelf talent it takes a while for freshman to gel and mature. I would guess next year's State team will outperform the 2012-2013 team.

 

[tdoss]

Make or break season for Gott?

Or has he finally earned himself some time/respect/slack?

 

[Tau837]

Make or break season for Gott?

Or has he finally earned himself some time/respect/slack?

I'm not sure why anyone would even ask this question (besides pantherclub).

Gott is easily the best State coach since Valvano. IMO the only ACC coaches who are clearly better are K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, and Bennett, and 4 of those 5 (at least) will end up in the HOF. I posted a few weeks ago about Gott's accomplishments so far, which have been impressive IMO. Most notable is his postseason work: 7-4 in the ACC tournament, 4 out of 4 NCAA tournament bids with a 5-4 record and 2 Sweet 16s. That kind of record could only put a coach in a make or break situation at a program that has a long track record of winning, which State obviously does not have over the past 25 years since Valvano departed.

 

[tdoss]

Make or break season for Gott?

Or has he finally earned himself some time/respect/slack?

I'm not sure why anyone would even ask this question (besides pantherclub).

Gott is easily the best State coach since Valvano. IMO the only ACC coaches who are clearly better are K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, and Bennett, and 4 of those 5 (at least) will end up in the HOF. I posted a few weeks ago about Gott's accomplishments so far, which have been impressive IMO. Most notable is his postseason work: 7-4 in the ACC tournament, 4 out of 4 NCAA tournament bids with a 5-4 record and 2 Sweet 16s. That kind of record could only put a coach in a make or break situation at a program that has a long track record of winning, which State obviously does not have over the past 25 years since Valvano departed.

I'm in the guy's corner...I just keep hearing others try to act like he's on borrowed time.

I can't see how it's possible...

And I agree that next season should be very good for State.

 

[NutterButter]

So Jones is officially outta here. Huge hole at the point next year.

 

[Sammy3469]

It was a run.

 

[tdoss]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

 

[NutterButter]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

 

[Tau837]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

How high is "this high"? I think there is a very real possibility he doesn't get drafted in the first round.

 

[Yenrub]

Make or break season for Gott?

Or has he finally earned himself some time/respect/slack?

I'm not sure why anyone would even ask this question (besides pantherclub).

Gott is easily the best State coach since Valvano. IMO the only ACC coaches who are clearly better are K, Roy, Pitino, Boeheim, and Bennett, and 4 of those 5 (at least) will end up in the HOF. I posted a few weeks ago about Gott's accomplishments so far, which have been impressive IMO. Most notable is his postseason work: 7-4 in the ACC tournament, 4 out of 4 NCAA tournament bids with a 5-4 record and 2 Sweet 16s. That kind of record could only put a coach in a make or break situation at a program that has a long track record of winning, which State obviously does not have over the past 25 years since Valvano departed.

I'm in the guy's corner...I just keep hearing others try to act like he's on borrowed time.

I can't see how it's possible...

And I agree that next season should be very good for State.

Where are you hearing that Gott is on borrowed time?

 

[NutterButter]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

How high is "this high"? I think there is a very real possibility he doesn't get drafted in the first round.

From the article, K seems to think it will be in the 20-25 range from talking with NBA executives. I'd imagine K would have a good feel for it.

 

[Tau837]

Damn...oh well.

He's not ready but can't blame him...he'd probably lose stock next year.

Yeah, good for him that he's even in a position to get drafted this high. I really would have liked to see him play more.

How high is "this high"? I think there is a very real possibility he doesn't get drafted in the first round.

From the article, K seems to think it will be in the 20-25 range from talking with NBA executives. I'd imagine K would have a good feel for it.

I agree he should have a good read on it given his contacts. It's just hard for me to believe that Jones is one of the top 20-25 players in this draft. Watching him play, he looks like a guy who will get abused on defense in the NBA and will likely struggle on offense against bigger and quicker NBA-level players. At the NBA level, won't Jones be below average in size, quickness, and athleticism? What does he excel at that makes up for those deficiencies?