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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (2 Viewers)

jurrassic said:
I don't buy this.  The Packers beat writers are the most neutered in the league and consistently defend the team instead of challenging them.  

Signs of slippage where?  He has been a 2nd team all-pro 3 straight years and was rated as a top 5 guard last year.   If that was the case they would have drafted a guard or brought one in via FA.  They now go into a Super Bowl chasing year with an undersized back-up center, a 2nd string guard who has been average, at best, during his very limited playing time and virtually non-existent depth with Barclay and 2 rookie OT who have never played guard.  Barclay has been nothing short of horrific when he has played. If this were the plan all along we have to either question Thompson's hubris or sheer lack of planning. I'm all for the "In Ted we trust" crowd, and generally defend him, but this just screams overreaction by the Packers.  They could have kept Sitton this year and let him walk.  No reason to cut him.  I'm far from sold on the "human holding machine" David Bahktiari and would rather the Packers see how he plays this year then extend him early.  I feel the same way about Tretter, who while versatile, hasn't shown himself to be great at any specific position on the line.  The strength of the Packers line in the past has been the interior, now 2 of those 3 guys aren't playing.  They definitely haven't gotten better, the question is how much worse have they gotten. Instead of getting rid of the "guy a year too early rather than a year too late" they could have got rid of him at exactly the right time, after the season.   
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Buy it or not that's what the article stated. Here's the link and the quote:

I can’t say that I noticed decline in Sitton’s play, though multiple NFL sources have told me in the last day that he had slipped some over the last year. One agent whose firm represents a Packers offensive lineman said he assumed Sitton refused a pay cut, so Thompson cut him. But that doesn’t appear to be the case.

An NFL source with ties to the Packers told me that in the team’s eyes Sitton had become haughty and uncommunicative. That jibes with a report by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s Tom Silverstein that the Packers were unwilling to talk contract extension with Sitton and instead placed left tackle David Bakhtiari and center JC Tretter ahead of him on their contract-extension priority list.

Clearly, Thompson thought a problem was festering in his locker room, and Sitton’s age and bad back left him expendable even coming off a second-team All-Pro season.
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Sitton release Lombardi like

Reading the article it seems like there were a whole host of things that led to the release of Sitton. None of us really know the whole story behind it but we are quick to throw TT under the bus based on what we think we know.

I couldn't help but think what it would have been like had the internet been around when Lombardi ran the team.

 
jurrassic said:
I don't buy this.  The Packers beat writers are the most neutered in the league and consistently defend the team instead of challenging them.  

Signs of slippage where?  He has been a 2nd team all-pro 3 straight years and was rated as a top 5 guard last year.   If that was the case they would have drafted a guard or brought one in via FA.  They now go into a Super Bowl chasing year with an undersized back-up center, a 2nd string guard who has been average, at best, during his very limited playing time and virtually non-existent depth with Barclay and 2 rookie OT who have never played guard.  Barclay has been nothing short of horrific when he has played. If this were the plan all along we have to either question Thompson's hubris or sheer lack of planning. I'm all for the "In Ted we trust" crowd, and generally defend him, but this just screams overreaction by the Packers.  They could have kept Sitton this year and let him walk.  No reason to cut him.  I'm far from sold on the "human holding machine" David Bahktiari and would rather the Packers see how he plays this year then extend him early.  I feel the same way about Tretter, who while versatile, hasn't shown himself to be great at any specific position on the line.  The strength of the Packers line in the past has been the interior, now 2 of those 3 guys aren't playing.  They definitely haven't gotten better, the question is how much worse have they gotten. Instead of getting rid of the "guy a year too early rather than a year too late" they could have got rid of him at exactly the right time, after the season.   
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I appreciate a Packers fan who can look at both sides. 

 
jurrassic said:
The only real reason to cut him would be to use his roughly $7 million in savings to extend guys in-season (the Packers were already $9.7 million under the cap). The problem with that, however, is most of those guys haven't proven yet that they deserve a contract extension.  Bahktiari, Tretter, Perry, Lacy, Jones.  Add to that, Peppers $10.5 million that will come off the cap after the year and most likely $6.5 from Lang, as I don't see how you offer him $7 million to play guard when your slotting rules prohibit you from paying Sitton that.   Lang is also only a year younger than Sitton.  

I want to clear.  I am not trying to be a doom and gloom season prognosticator.  I still think the Packers are one of the top 5 teams in the NFC.  I just think they have given themselves  literally no room for error on the line.  The obvious lack of depth is what bothers me more than Sitton being cut.  Taylor did not look good this pre-season but more importantly, there isn't anything behind him besides a converted UDFA OT in Barclay who has struggled mightily for the past 2 years.   
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They'll be a top 5 NFC team as long as Rodgers is on the field,  but better protect him

 
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Whatever happened with Sitton had to have been bad enough that they were willing to forego a free mid-round pick.  If Sitton had played out this year and signed a $7M/year deal like he did with the Bears then the Packers would have gotten a solid 4th rounder in compensatory picks.  Ted loves those middle round picks and has abused the compensatory system for years.

They must believe that either his play has declined precipitously or he was such a cancer that it was worth dumping a top 10 guard AND a free mid-round pick even though he was making OK money for his play.

Either way, the Packers have a ton of players coming up for contract this year. Bahktiari is going to get a huge extension, Lacy will get $5M+ per year and Datone Jones is going to make at least that much. Hyde and several other good contributors are up too.

Hopefully this is one of those Belichek "get rid of them one year too early rather than one year too late" type of moves.

 
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His play declined a little, not a lot. It appears to be a case of letting a guy go a year early rather than hanging on to him too long.

Aside from Daryn Colledge you may recall that Clifton, Spitz, Wells were also trashed in favor of unproven starters (excepting the very brief and ill-advised use of Jeff Saturday at the beginning of 2012). TT has stuck to a long-term plan for developing the OL.

Rumor-mongering sites like PFT might like to hint there was more to it. Who knows? I don't blame Sitton for being upset temporarily as this is like getting dumped/fired (and you have to move out of town!) on the eve of the season. I'm just glad he didn't go to Seattle or New England.

 
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A couple of thoughts here.

We're never going to get the full story on Sitton, but the more details that emerge, the more the move makes sense.That said, there may be some immediate pain in releasing him. He was a rock on that line, and it hurts to lose continuity. I can't fault Thompson for making the move, but the timing seems odd. 

I agree with others that have stated that this frees up cap money to work on extensions for current players. In addition, I firmly believe Linsley will be back soon, and Tretter can move to guard if needed. With Sitton gone, that would be my preferred lineup: Bakhtiari, Tretter, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga. That's still a really good O line, and I believe Bakhtiairi (24) and Tretter (25) are two of the young guys that land 3-4 year deals with the extra cap money saved by releasing Sitton (earmarked for bonus dollars.)

In addition, I have no problem with the decision to keep only three Inside Linebackers. It seems to me Green Bay has been hinting at playing a hybrid safety type position this year, starting with Burnett. Reality is, both Burnett and Dix could play that ILB position as needed in certain packages. This would also explain their decision to keep more safety's on the 53 to start the season. Based on that, I would not be surprised to see more Safety as a LB type moves, especially with Matthews locked in at OLB. All these things together make me believe that's part of the plan. We'll see how it plays out.

Let's get this season started. 

 
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The simple fact is, something unexpected happen.  If this was the Packers "plan" all along, they would have played Taylor with the first unit this pre-season.  If you know you were going to release Sitton, why wait and why not prepare for it during the regular season.  Not sure it's Sitton wanting a new deal, as that should have been expected by the Packers.  

 
Man in the yellow hat said:
In addition, I have no problem with the decision to keep only three Inside Linebackers. It seems to me Green Bay has been hinting at playing a hybrid safety type position this year, starting with Burnett. Reality is, both Burnett and Dix could play that ILB position as needed in certain packages. This would also explain their decision to keep more safety's on the 53 to start the season. Based on that, I would not be surprised to see more Safety as a LB type moves, especially with Matthews locked in at OLB. All these things together make me believe that's part of the plan. We'll see how it plays out.

Let's get this season started. 
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Regarding the inside LB, they also resigned Bradford to the practice squad. Gives them more depth with an experienced LB in their system.

 
What's going on with Davante Adams? Is he still the WR3? Any homers here have insight? The national media is acting like he died, but he still seems to be a wr3 in a top 5-7 offense. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
This part, at the least, is certainly false.
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We can agree to disagree.  I don't think the media asks the tough questions.  They may act tough on radio or in print but when put in position to ask the questions at a press conference, they don't.  I have heard the same question asked of McCarthy on why they released Sitton and he stated "There were a lot of variables"  Where's the follow up on what those variables were?  Where is the question on how this impacts the locker room? (which according to some beat writers is as somber as a funeral).  Many assume this was done to free up cap room for Bahk and Lang.  Where is the question on the worry over them resigning based on how incredibly close they were to Sitton and how the team treated an all-pro guard who went over 3 years without giving up a sack?  What about how they need to adjust all there line calls because Sitton can share every audible, adjustment and alignment shift with the Bears?  Just saying.   

 
jurrassic said:
We can agree to disagree.  I don't think the media asks the tough questions.  They may act tough on radio or in print but when put in position to ask the questions at a press conference, they don't.  I have heard the same question asked of McCarthy on why they released Sitton and he stated "There were a lot of variables"  Where's the follow up on what those variables were?  Where is the question on how this impacts the locker room? (which according to some beat writers is as somber as a funeral).  Many assume this was done to free up cap room for Bahk and Lang.  Where is the question on the worry over them resigning based on how incredibly close they were to Sitton and how the team treated an all-pro guard who went over 3 years without giving up a sack?  What about how they need to adjust all there line calls because Sitton can share every audible, adjustment and alignment shift with the Bears?  Just saying.   
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If you've followed the Packers in the past 10 years, you'll agree that asking McCarthy or Thompson these questions in a press conference is a 100% useless endeavor. No Packers reporter would ever be foolish enough to ask these kinds of questions. Neither McCarthy nor Thompson has ever given a journalist a meaningful answer to a tough question in their entire history with the Packers (thankfully so, in my opinion.) That said, it is completely false to say the Packers' beat writers are the "most neutered in the league and consistently defend the team instead of challenging them."  That is 100% horse#### and I'm not inclined to agree to disagree on that point. Just last year there was a highly publicized incident where Rob Davis tried to intimidate Michael Cohen at practice after he wrote a critical piece about Letroy Guion. McGinn has been very harsh on Thompson and McCarthy over the years, and some of us are old enough to remember Cliff Cristl going after Thompson on several occasions. Silverstein is an old saw who won't back down from any of these guys. I've got a few social connections with the Journal guys and have found myself at a happy hour on a few occasions with some of these guys and they love telling stories about lockerroom run-ins with the coaches and players over a few beers. Physical intimidation is not at all rare, but these reporters love taking on the club and telling it like it is.

 
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jurrassic said:
We can agree to disagree.  I don't think the media asks the tough questions.  They may act tough on radio or in print but when put in position to ask the questions at a press conference, they don't.  I have heard the same question asked of McCarthy on why they released Sitton and he stated "There were a lot of variables"  Where's the follow up on what those variables were?  Where is the question on how this impacts the locker room? (which according to some beat writers is as somber as a funeral).  Many assume this was done to free up cap room for Bahk and Lang.  Where is the question on the worry over them resigning based on how incredibly close they were to Sitton and how the team treated an all-pro guard who went over 3 years without giving up a sack?  What about how they need to adjust all there line calls because Sitton can share every audible, adjustment and alignment shift with the Bears?  Just saying.   
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If it was about money or declining skills,  why wait until a few days before the season to cut him?  That's odd.  Also,  for a guy who apparently has so many close friends in the locker room,  I have a hard time believing he was some type of distraction. 

 
flapgreen said:
If it was about money or declining skills,  why wait until a few days before the season to cut him?  That's odd.  Also,  for a guy who apparently has so many close friends in the locker room,  I have a hard time believing he was some type of distraction. 
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Sitton suffered all last season from a bad back. He lost weight this off-season to help with the back issues. Some NFL personnel also say they saw slippage in his play the last season, not significant but some slight slippage. Maybe the Packers wanted to wait and see if the weight loss helped him during the preseason. Maybe they didn't like what they saw. Who knows? Nothing odd about them waiting until the final cut down.

 
KingPrawn said:
Sitton suffered all last season from a bad back. He lost weight this off-season to help with the back issues. Some NFL personnel also say they saw slippage in his play the last season, not significant but some slight slippage. Maybe the Packers wanted to wait and see if the weight loss helped him during the preseason. Maybe they didn't like what they saw. Who knows? Nothing odd about them waiting until the final cut down.
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Suffered from a bad back all season and declining play but was a Pro Bowler?  I just can't see the reasoning there.  To say there's nothing odd about cutting one of your best OL and Pro Bowl a few days before the season began is the definition of odd.  Looks like other Packers fans in here think the same way.  Take off the Homer glasses. 

 
flapgreen said:
Suffered from a bad back all season and declining play but was a Pro Bowler?  I just can't see the reasoning there.  To say there's nothing odd about cutting one of your best OL and Pro Bowl a few days before the season began is the definition of odd.  Looks like other Packers fans in here think the same way.  Take off the Homer glasses. 
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People still think pro bowl means something.

At least use the 2nd team all pro stuff rather than Pro-Bowl.

Its not homer glasses to understand that it is not just one issue that led to this release.  You can keep thinking the Bears got the steal of the year and it will make your line great and the Packers will suck...but that seems to be you wearing homer glasses more than anything.  You oddly are almost bipolar when it comes to the Bears though.  You go quickly from how great it is to how they suck in the blink of an eye.

 
sho nuff said:
Outlier
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Bears DC Fangio vs GB

2015

@ CHI - L - 31 points allowed

@ GB - W - 13 points allowed

2013

@ 49ers - W - 28 points allowed

@ GB - W - 20 points allowed

2012

@ GB - W - 22 points allowed

@49ers - W - 31 points allowed

Fangio is 5-1 against the GB led Rodgers teams. I see an outlier here as well.

 
tdmills said:
Bears DC Fangio vs GB

2015

@ CHI - L - 31 points allowed

@ GB - W - 13 points allowed

2013

@ 49ers - W - 28 points allowed

@ GB - W - 20 points allowed

2012

@ GB - W - 22 points allowed

@49ers - W - 31 points allowed

Fangio is 5-1 against the GB led Rodgers teams. I see an outlier here as well.
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Capers vs Cutler...i notice you don't post that or dont post about all of Chicago vs Green Bay since Rodgers has been starter or even Cutler 

I dont hink that SF defense is showing up for the Bears this season.

 
sho nuff said:
Capers vs Cutler...i notice you don't post that or dont post about all of Chicago vs Green Bay since Rodgers has been starter or even Cutler 

I dont hink that SF defense is showing up for the Bears this season.
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Don't think the SF defense was @GB last year when Chicago won either.

You said outlier and i'm proving to you that it might not be an outlier as Fangio has a history of doing well against GB. I can see I can lead you to water, but drinking on the other hand.

 
tdmills said:
Don't think the SF defense was @GB last year when Chicago won either.

You said outlier and i'm proving to you that it might not be an outlier as Fangio has a history of doing well against GB. I can see I can lead you to water, but drinking on the other hand.
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The outlier was that one game.  We were talking about Cutler...you said Thanksgiving.  Then staryed bringing up a defensive coach and how he did against GB while in SF as if that is relevant.

 
The deft mind of Vic Fangio folds against Brock Osweiler yet again...

Anyway, it's long season etc. etc. but those missed kicks for Carolina and AZ are going to matter for playoff seeding.

 
Lane Taylor and Packers 1-0

Josh Sitton and Bears 0-1

McCarthy even ran the ball fourth and 1 over Taylor and got a 9 yard gain. If that wasn't a little bit of in your face play I don't know what was. Last couple years the Packers have not been able to get that type of push up the middle in short yardage.

 
Nice to see them hold up at the end there.  Stupid play call by Jacksonville.  I'd have gone to AR15 again.  Packers couldn't cover him.  

1-0

 
The good

2 minute drill...they are just so damn good at it.

New punter looks pretty good too.

Oline played a pretty good game, not perfect and several should have been sacks that Rodgers escaped from

Rodgers of course...that throw to Davante was crazy good

Great seeing Jordy back...even if not the full on Jordy we are used to

Run D did its job after it looked like they would let big holes go early

Bad

all of those little 4th down conversions.

Not getting set up well early on with the deep punts and the sun killing any chance of a return...field position hurt early  Offense was inconsistent

Big chunk plays hurt them again

All in all, ugly, but a road win vs an up and coming team.  And no major injuries it looks like?  OL held up just fine.

 
Looks like Rodgers is sick of McCarthys conservative play calling losing them games as well.  He didn't look happy on the sideline.  Same thing mike did v Seattle.  Got lucky here. 

 
Sabertooth said:
Looks like Rodgers is sick of McCarthys conservative play calling losing them games as well.  He didn't look happy on the sideline.  Same thing mike did v Seattle.  Got lucky here. 
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Sabertooth said:
Looks like Rodgers is sick of McCarthys conservative play calling losing them games as well.  He didn't look happy on the sideline.  Same thing mike did v Seattle.  Got lucky here. 
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Except it was the right call. First game of the year and you're going to start this already.......

Guess I'll check out now.

 
Shields in concussion protocol

The other bad...same old thing, ILB in coverage and Burnett getting abused too.

 
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Alex P Keaton said:
McCarthy is dumb as a post.  Doesn't learn from his mistakes.
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Except both you and SB would be wrong. Rodgers was not upset at McCarthy and the conservative play calling. Rodgers was upset at the miscommunication at the line. Half the line was blocking as a pass play and half were blocking as if a run play. 

 
Can't link from my phone but did anybody read the article from Pete Doughtery in the Journal Sentinel today re Sitton?  Sounds like Sitton can be a bit of a pain in the ### at times. Outspoken about personnel moves, outspoken about coaches, outspoken about other players, refusing to practice certain techniques in practice, bitter about contract status, etc. When his attitude started trickling over to the younger players they decided it was time to cut bait. Sounds like he was always this way to a degree but they put up with it when sitton was playing well. But when his play started slipping, back was becoming an issue, contract status was a problem the Packers decided it wasn't worth it anymore. 

 
KingPrawn said:
Except both you and SB would be wrong. Rodgers was not upset at McCarthy and the conservative play calling. Rodgers was upset at the miscommunication at the line. Half the line was blocking as a pass play and half were blocking as if a run play. 
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I didn't say anything about Rodgers.  

 
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